 Bassgasm 
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Joined: Dec 2010  MO, USA
 Posts: 139 Feedback: 0% (0) |
Posted: 3/3/2011 7:11:36 PM
THE IMAGE ABOVE IS A PAID ADVERTISEMENT According to Sig, the 556 weighs 8.2 lbs empty. According to RRA, their CAR A4 weighs 7.1 lbs. I can't see myself getting uppity about the fact that a rifle weighs 8.2 lbs, and a 1.1 lbs difference seems laughable. Some guys make it sound like the Sig is a damn M240B. For further comparison- SCAR-L 7.3 lbs HK SL8 8 lbs HK 93 8.4 lbs AKM 6.8 lbs Galil 8.27 lbs AUG 7.9 lbs Cold War battle rifles anybody?- M14 11.5lbs FAL 9.5 lbs G3 10 lbs Then there's the matter of weight distribution- I'm going to say that the AR's more centered weight comes from the massive buffer assembly extending from the rear of the receiver, which is pretty unique when you think about it. And this is a nice plain-jane AR were talking about here. Most of the ARs I've seen in my short time on this site are anything but plain-jane. I'm going to say that those ARs covered with tier 1 geardo shit are anything but light or balanced. |
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Posted: 3/3/2011 8:09:07 PM
Considering the barrel profile on the 556, it is quite heavy. My Colt 6520 is 5.8lbs empty. That means the Sig weighs 41% more. Also, like you pointed out the weight is better distributed on the AR. So better weight distribution + less weight = superior handling and ergonomics.
The Sig is a fantastic weapon and I like it very much, but it doesn't compare in the least when I shoulder it to the 6520. The difference is significant, I implore you to seek out a pencil barrel AR and see for yourself. |
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Posted: 3/3/2011 8:53:50 PM
Originally Posted By mercdank:
Considering the barrel profile on the 556, it is quite heavy. My Colt 6520 is 5.8lbs empty. That means the Sig weighs 41% more. Also, like you pointed out the weight is better distributed on the AR. So better weight distribution + less weight = superior handling and ergonomics. The Sig is a fantastic weapon and I like it very much, but it doesn't compare in the least when I shoulder it to the 6520. The difference is significant, I implore you to seek out a pencil barrel AR and see for yourself. I'm going to guess you don't have the usual surefire + laser + TOW launcher on the fore-end of your Colt. That already makes you a minority around here.  The fact that the 6520 is so light makes your AR just that much more of an oddity. You're actually in a position to make a statement about weight. The average arfcommer, probably not so much.
I'll play around with a pencil-barrel AR if I get the chance, but when I actually buy one it'll most likely be a 20" with the standard handguards that will take me back to my days as a PV2/PFC.  |
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Posted: 3/3/2011 9:59:25 PM
Originally Posted By Bassgasm:
Originally Posted By mercdank:
Considering the barrel profile on the 556, it is quite heavy. My Colt 6520 is 5.8lbs empty. That means the Sig weighs 41% more. Also, like you pointed out the weight is better distributed on the AR. So better weight distribution + less weight = superior handling and ergonomics. The Sig is a fantastic weapon and I like it very much, but it doesn't compare in the least when I shoulder it to the 6520. The difference is significant, I implore you to seek out a pencil barrel AR and see for yourself. I'm going to guess you don't have the usual surefire + laser + TOW launcher on the fore-end of your Colt. That already makes you a minority around here. The fact that the 6520 is so light makes your AR just that much more of an oddity. You're actually in a position to make a statement about weight. The average arfcommer, probably not so much.
I'll play around with a pencil-barrel AR if I get the chance, but when I actually buy one it'll most likely be a 20" with the standard handguards that will take me back to my days as a PV2/PFC. Your forgot the SEAL minisub they have hanging off the end just in case they get involved in any emergency amphibious combat ops during a competition. |
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Posted: 3/3/2011 10:15:04 PM
[Last Edit: 3/3/2011 10:20:53 PM by A8AWD]
Originally Posted By Bassgasm:
According to Sig, the 556 weighs 8.2 lbs empty. According to RRA, their CAR A4 weighs 7.1 lbs. I can't see myself getting uppity about the fact that a rifle weighs 8.2 lbs, and a 1.1 lbs difference seems laughable. Some guys make it sound like the Sig is a damn M240B. On a bench, a Sig's balance wouldn't make a 10 yr old girl uppity. But grab a 556, get in your stance hold it steadily on target for 1 minute...or bring the rifle on target from low ready 30 times in a row...or try to shoulder that measly 8lb 556 with just one hand on the pistol grip. Report back if you still don't think balance is important when comparing a 8lb Sig to a 7lb AR. Hell. I'd be willing to bet that you couldn't legitimately shoulder a loaded 556 (thats not modified to offset the balance) from low ready having only one hand on the pistol grip and trigger finger on the side of the receiver with your off hand in your pocket and keep it shouldered on target for 120 seconds . If you are willing to make a video of it with no fishing line holding up the muzzle I'll buy you a 1 yr membership here. If you lose you renew mine. Do it with that 7lb RRA AR and it will be a non issue.
ETA: Added smiley face so you dont think I come across like a complete dickhead. Its all in good fun and to make a point. |
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evlblkwpnz
Gunshine State Native
Team Member
Joined: Aug 2008 FL, USA
Posts: 2373 Feedback: 100% (74) Link To This Post |
Posted: 3/3/2011 10:31:18 PM
A friend of mine has a Classic SWAT and the thing is a beast. The nose heavy condition is immediately noticeable. He loves it though. I will be going the pistol/SBR route. Maybe an UBR filled with odds and ends to balance it a bit better.
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Posted: 3/3/2011 11:15:15 PM
Originally Posted By Bassgasm:
Originally Posted By mercdank:
Considering the barrel profile on the 556, it is quite heavy. My Colt 6520 is 5.8lbs empty. That means the Sig weighs 41% more. Also, like you pointed out the weight is better distributed on the AR. So better weight distribution + less weight = superior handling and ergonomics. The Sig is a fantastic weapon and I like it very much, but it doesn't compare in the least when I shoulder it to the 6520. The difference is significant, I implore you to seek out a pencil barrel AR and see for yourself. I'm going to guess you don't have the usual surefire + laser + TOW launcher on the fore-end of your Colt. That already makes you a minority around here. The fact that the 6520 is so light makes your AR just that much more of an oddity. You're actually in a position to make a statement about weight. The average arfcommer, probably not so much.
I'll play around with a pencil-barrel AR if I get the chance, but when I actually buy one it'll most likely be a 20" with the standard handguards that will take me back to my days as a PV2/PFC. Yea none of that stuff. Just the sling that it came with is all that is on it right now. |
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Landric
Not worried about the Zombie Apocalypse
Team Member
Joined: Sep 2001 NC, USA
Posts: 492 Feedback: 100% (88) Link To This Post |
Posted: 3/3/2011 11:25:27 PM
I don't find the weight of the SIG 556 to be that big of a deal. I will agree that the average non-tacticooled out AR is both lighter and better balanced. The SIG is a different system, and other than feeding from AR type magazines and shooting 5.56mm NATO, it doesn't share a lot with AR rifles. I like the SIG for what it is, and don't worry about what it isn't. I enjoy my 556 a lot, and that is what counts for me. For most of us all these ninja-tacticool rifles are toys anyway, and not likely to be used for anything else. In the unlikely event that they are, few of us (if any) will see a Heat style extended gun battle with one where the less balanced SIG might be at a disadvantage. As for zombies, well see my tag line for how I feel about that issue.
Perhaps my point of view is skewed though, my preference in rifles is for WWII era (+/-) battle rifles with the Garand as my favorite. Both the AR and the SIG feel light and toy-like to me compared to a wood and steel Garand. |
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LA_357SIG
Bronzed Member
Team Member
Joined: Jan 2007 TN, USA
Posts: 2083 Feedback: 100% (14) Link To This Post |
Posted: 3/4/2011 1:55:02 AM
[Last Edit: 3/4/2011 3:04:34 AM by LA_357SIG]
TOW Missle... lol
Edited: It's less than 5% of the average American gun owners body weight. Man the fuck up. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 3/4/2011 9:02:00 AM
Originally Posted By A8AWD:
Originally Posted By Bassgasm:
According to Sig, the 556 weighs 8.2 lbs empty. According to RRA, their CAR A4 weighs 7.1 lbs. I can't see myself getting uppity about the fact that a rifle weighs 8.2 lbs, and a 1.1 lbs difference seems laughable. Some guys make it sound like the Sig is a damn M240B. On a bench, a Sig's balance wouldn't make a 10 yr old girl uppity. But grab a 556, get in your stance hold it steadily on target for 1 minute...or bring the rifle on target from low ready 30 times in a row...or try to shoulder that measly 8lb 556 with just one hand on the pistol grip. Report back if you still don't think balance is important when comparing a 8lb Sig to a 7lb AR. Hell. I'd be willing to bet that you couldn't legitimately shoulder a loaded 556 (thats not modified to offset the balance) from low ready having only one hand on the pistol grip and trigger finger on the side of the receiver with your off hand in your pocket and keep it shouldered on target for 120 seconds . If you are willing to make a video of it with no fishing line holding up the muzzle I'll buy you a 1 yr membership here. If you lose you renew mine. Do it with that 7lb RRA AR and it will be a non issue.
ETA: Added smiley face so you dont think I come across like a complete dickhead. Its all in good fun and to make a point. Whut?  I'm reminded of that libtard argument of the pistol grip being some kind of magical tool that allows an AR to be used 1 handed without aiming. 
I remember spending hours in basic training watching the sun go down as I held the prone supported/ unsupported// kneeling with a full 2 qt hanging on my barrel. I don't miss that shit at all. I'm considering giving this a go, but I want to know going into it what you define as "on target." |
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Posted: 3/4/2011 9:25:51 AM
[Last Edit: 3/4/2011 9:27:34 AM by joshglock]
Originally Posted By LA_357SIG:
Edited: It's less than 5% of the average American gun owners body weight. Man the fuck up. ^^ this^^ you made me laugh out loud. |
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Posted: 3/4/2011 9:47:06 AM
Originally Posted By Bassgasm:
Originally Posted By A8AWD:
Originally Posted By Bassgasm:
According to Sig, the 556 weighs 8.2 lbs empty. According to RRA, their CAR A4 weighs 7.1 lbs. I can't see myself getting uppity about the fact that a rifle weighs 8.2 lbs, and a 1.1 lbs difference seems laughable. Some guys make it sound like the Sig is a damn M240B. On a bench, a Sig's balance wouldn't make a 10 yr old girl uppity. But grab a 556, get in your stance hold it steadily on target for 1 minute...or bring the rifle on target from low ready 30 times in a row...or try to shoulder that measly 8lb 556 with just one hand on the pistol grip. Report back if you still don't think balance is important when comparing a 8lb Sig to a 7lb AR. Hell. I'd be willing to bet that you couldn't legitimately shoulder a loaded 556 (thats not modified to offset the balance) from low ready having only one hand on the pistol grip and trigger finger on the side of the receiver with your off hand in your pocket and keep it shouldered on target for 120 seconds . If you are willing to make a video of it with no fishing line holding up the muzzle I'll buy you a 1 yr membership here. If you lose you renew mine. Do it with that 7lb RRA AR and it will be a non issue.
ETA: Added smiley face so you dont think I come across like a complete dickhead. Its all in good fun and to make a point. Whut? I'm reminded of that libtard argument of the pistol grip being some kind of magical tool that allows an AR to be used 1 handed without aiming.
I remember spending hours in basic training watching the sun go down as I held the prone supported/ unsupported// kneeling with a full 2 qt hanging on my barrel. I don't miss that shit at all. I'm considering giving this a go, but I want to know going into it what you define as "on target." I hear that. 8lbs of water hanging from the barrel doesn't sound like fun. As for what I mean when I say "on target", I mean just keeping it shouldered with the rifle parallel to the ground, trigger finger on the side of the recvr and the off hand at your side. I actually increased my rifle to nearly 10.5lbs unloaded with just an X300 and Eotech EXPS3 on it just to improve balance which for me has come to mean more speed and manageability of the firearm, especially when I am fatigued. At this point I am a few ounces heavy in the rear half of the gun and most of the weight change has come from Tungsten powder bagged and placed in the recvr ext tube until the rifle felt right. |
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Posted: 3/4/2011 10:06:21 AM
Originally Posted By LA_357SIG:
TOW Missle... lol Edited: It's less than 5% of the average American gun owners body weight. Man the fuck up. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile I have to admit I laughed when I read that as well. At the same time that probably means you would be willing to take your rifle off the bench, fold up the bipod and win yourself another year of membership here seeing how yours expired in less than a month  2 mins + the time to upload a video clip for a membership? That translates to ~$400 per hour. Not bad for a quick "man the fuck up moment".
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LA_357SIG
Bronzed Member
Team Member
Joined: Jan 2007 TN, USA
Posts: 2086 Feedback: 100% (14) Link To This Post |
Posted: 3/4/2011 10:22:24 AM
Originally Posted By A8AWD:
Originally Posted By LA_357SIG:
TOW Missle... lol Edited: It's less than 5% of the average American gun owners body weight. Man the fuck up. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile I have to admit I laughed when I read that as well. At the same time that probably means you would be willing to take your rifle off the bench, fold up the bipod and win yourself another year of membership here seeing how yours expired in less than a month 2 mins + the time to upload a video clip for a membership? That translates to ~$400 per hour. Not bad for a quick "man the fuck up moment".
While I do have a bipod, it is not for my AR's or my SIG556. I am not a benchrest shooter. I do most of my shooting in the prone unsupported and seated positions. When I first complained how heavy my friend's Henry lever action was he also advised me to man the fuck up. It made sense so I started lifting weights again. Problem solved. Did you know the M-60 can be fired from the shoulder? This ain't no tea party with the rest of the girls. Be a man dammit. Grown men crying about a 10 pound firearm they casually shoot at a range or in the least "A class". Unless you shoot with a full combat load and road marched all the way to your range, you shouldn't complain about a 10 pound carbine with better weight distribution than a bowling ball. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 3/4/2011 11:16:36 AM
[Last Edit: 3/4/2011 4:29:51 PM by M82Assault]
Originally Posted By LA_357SIG:
Originally Posted By A8AWD:
Originally Posted By LA_357SIG:
TOW Missle... lol Edited: It's less than 5% of the average American gun owners body weight. Man the fuck up. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile I have to admit I laughed when I read that as well. At the same time that probably means you would be willing to take your rifle off the bench, fold up the bipod and win yourself another year of membership here seeing how yours expired in less than a month 2 mins + the time to upload a video clip for a membership? That translates to ~$400 per hour. Not bad for a quick "man the fuck up moment".
While I do have a bipod, it is not for my AR's or my SIG556. I am not a benchrest shooter. I do most of my shooting in the prone unsupported and seated positions. When I first complained how heavy my friend's Henry lever action was he also advised me to man the fuck up. It made sense so I started lifting weights again. Problem solved. Did you know the M-60 can be fired from the shoulder? This ain't no tea party with the rest of the girls. Be a man dammit. Grown men crying about a 10 pound firearm they casually shoot at a range or in the least "A class". Unless you shoot with a full combat load and road marched all the way to your range, you shouldn't complain about a 10 pound carbine with better weight distribution than a bowling ball. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile You're legally allowed to complain about THIS thing's weight balance, no matter how much you man up. 
[Edit: Not mine, though I wish it was. Added for comedic effect.]  |
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Posted: 3/4/2011 11:30:55 AM
I'm all for constructive criticism, but...wtf does a M60 or a bowling ball have to do with some of us making an observation (not a complaint) that a Sig 556 is more cumbersome to manipulate when compared to an AR and who the fuck are you to be calling anyone out? There's nothing wrong with a debate and humor is all good, but do it with some respect and dont act like an internet tough guy.
I have A LOT of time behind my Sig, the majority of it is from as you say "classes" with the rifle unslung because thats what I enjoy and how I choose to do it. Since I have altered the balance of my Sig I have only 600 rounds through it, but can already tell it is ergonomically 1000x better and easier to manipulate. I guess people cannot have an opinion. As for the "man the fuck up quit crying" chest beating, I'm 5'11" 170, I workout and am in great shape and the Sig has never been hard to control in any manner, but it doesnt mean it cant be improved. And like I said before, if you feel like replying again, do it with respect. Thanks, Matt |
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Posted: 3/4/2011 12:14:00 PM
All of the cock waiving going on in this thread is stupid, even by arfcom standards, Weight and balance of a rifle is a legitimate concern, and it has little to do with being a man. How many people have put a Magpul UBR on their H-bar to give it better balance, and thereby made it HEAVIER, but at the same time made it handle BETTER?
I too do not like the way the Sig handles, even though I have ARs that are as heavy or heavier. To me, the bad feel of the rifle is not offset by any improvement in performance. If the Sig was inarguabley better than the AR, which no one has ever proven, then it would be worth the trade of. However, I think the AR system is better, so there you go. |
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LA_357SIG
Bronzed Member
Team Member
Joined: Jan 2007 TN, USA
Posts: 2088 Feedback: 100% (14) Link To This Post |
Posted: 3/4/2011 12:23:00 PM
[Last Edit: 3/4/2011 12:24:40 PM by LA_357SIG]
Originally Posted By A8AWD:
I'm all for constructive criticism, but...wtf does a M60 or a bowling ball have to do with some of us making an observation (not a complaint) that a Sig 556 is more cumbersome to manipulate when compared to an AR and who the fuck are you to be calling anyone out? There's nothing wrong with a debate and humor is all good, but do it with some respect and dont act like an internet tough guy. I have A LOT of time behind my Sig, the majority of it is from as you say "classes" with the rifle unslung because thats what I enjoy and how I choose to do it. Since I have altered the balance of my Sig I have only 600 rounds through it, but can already tell it is ergonomically 1000x better and easier to manipulate. I guess people cannot have an opinion. As for the "man the fuck up quit crying" chest beating, I'm 5'11" 170, I workout and am in great shape and the Sig has never been hard to control in any manner, but it doesnt mean it cant be improved. And like I said before, if you feel like replying again, do it with respect. Thanks, Matt You might have missed my rant on how I can't believe the way guys on ARFcom obsess on getting thier AR's lighter before I edited it to what you took offense to just man the fuck up. My bringing up a shoulder fired M-60 was to show that "That is a heavy gun" and a comparible 10 pound bowling ball is hard to hold with one hand up to your cheek with all the weight centered over your firing hand. A linear SIG556 is much easier. Anyway, I don't see what you are geting all emotional about. Who the fuck called you out. I said "GROWN MEN" complaining about a 10 pound carbine (when other rifles are much heavier and made of steel and wood) being carried in combat and not just some weekend warrior shooting because he wants to and not because he has to. There's no reason for an American male not to adapt his body to a weapon. If it's heavy lift weights. If you still can't manage, get something lighter. In closing don't take things so personal on here. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 3/4/2011 12:25:44 PM
Is the pistol more, or less, balanced than the rifle?
I've bought one, and it hasn't arrived yet. And no place had them in stock, that I could put my hands on. I plan on SBR ing it in the near future. How does it stack up? Or should I ask "How does it balance out"? |
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Posted: 3/4/2011 5:35:31 PM
How is the Patrol version of the Sig 556? I was thinking of buying one, but can't find one locally to try out.
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Posted: 3/5/2011 4:43:05 PM
The Patrol version makes a BIG difference. It would be my choice if I were to SBR a 556, since I could cut it to 12". When I had my first 556, I did a lot of rifle PT with it, and got used to the weight pretty quick. It's no M4, but come one, its not THAT bad.
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Posted: 3/5/2011 6:41:30 PM
Is the Patrol with the quad rail much heavier than the standard handguards? Again, I wish I had one localy to check out, but I don't.
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