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Posted: 5/18/2017 6:33:43 AM EDT
So my ffl application is almost complete. Had my meeting and im just waiting on the mail for my license. My question is what are you guys doing for health insurance. I have great insurance at my job but im.gone for a month and home only 2 or three days. Im looking at quiting my job and going full time in firearm sales. I have been saving money for inventory and im getting close to the point of jumping. My wifes job offers insurance but it is rediculously priced.
Link Posted: 5/18/2017 6:54:31 AM EDT
[#1]
Here's a couple things for your consideration.......
1)most new businesses fail due to lack of capital..........do you have a few hundred thousand dollars laying around for inventory??
2)Do you have a storefront in a high traffic location??
3)Can you meet all the zoning regulations??
4)Do you have any trustworthy employees??
5)Health insurance is going to be well down on your priority list,maybe for a long time.



Sorry to be a wet blanket but the gun business is VERY tough way to make a living.......
But I wish you good luck...
Link Posted: 5/18/2017 12:20:55 PM EDT
[#2]
Might want to check around before you got FT in Firearms Business!  COBRA coverage is one thing, but it runs out.
Coverage via stand alone policy may make your wife's policy look better....
Link Posted: 5/18/2017 6:08:15 PM EDT
[#3]
Quoted:
My wifes job offers insurance but it is rediculously priced.
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It's very unlikely that any individual plan will give better coverage or lower cost than any employer-sponsored plan.
Link Posted: 5/18/2017 10:00:28 PM EDT
[#4]
I thought there were groups you could join. I was hoping someone here would have some info, but not looking like it.
Link Posted: 5/19/2017 10:39:09 AM EDT
[#5]
Quoted:...... Im looking at quiting my job and going full time in firearm sales. I have been saving money for inventory and im getting close to the point of jumping....
View Quote

Have you done a business plan?
Have you read the last two pages of this subforum?
Have you visited any gun shows lately?
Have you any idea what dealer cost actually means?

I ask because this may be the worst time in history to open a gun business.
Numerous online retailers are selling guns BELOW their cost.....why do you think that is?
Link Posted: 5/19/2017 11:11:58 AM EDT
[#6]
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Quoted:
Sorry to be a wet blanket but the gun business is VERY tough way to make a living.......
But I wish you good luck...
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Indeed.  Every "gun store" I'm aware of that has opened in my city in the last 20 years has gone out of business, and some of the older, established gun stores have as well.  There are really only a couple of actual "gun stores" (that only sell guns) left.  There are larger stores (Sportsman's Warehouse, Scheels, Dick's, Walmart, etc.) that also sell other stuff that have opened and stayed open.

Now.... "gun stores" that have ranges open up, and stay open.  But, let's be honest, their selection of guns and accessories is pretty small, and is more or less an afterthought to range fees and ammo sales, which are what actually make them money.  In reality, they're ranges that also sell guns.

Now there are some home-based FFLs that just do transfers that have stuck around.  Not all of them have, but some.
Link Posted: 5/19/2017 10:35:29 PM EDT
[#7]
I see this as an excellent time to get in. Inventory will only vost me a third of what it would a couple of years ago. Gun shows are still doing good around here. I didnt ask for a million reasons why not to. I asked for health insurance. I had another feiend tell me about some.
Samaritan ministries and medishare. Maybe you all should look into them.
Link Posted: 5/19/2017 10:45:46 PM EDT
[#8]
You are trying to start a firearms selling business in this market?  You may want to rethink that.

No dealers will be making any money any time soon.
Link Posted: 5/19/2017 11:52:57 PM EDT
[#9]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I see this as an excellent time to get in.  
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I see this as an excellent time to get in.  
Then you haven't been paying attention to the firearms market.


Inventory will only vost me a third of what it would a couple of years ago.
Think about why that might be.




Gun shows are still doing good around here.
Where are you in Texas?
DFW gun shows have seen a steady decline in table rentals over the last 2-3 years. I've been told the same for Houston and SA.
Table rentals at Dallas Market Hall are so bad that the sponsering organization lowered the rental price......think why that might be.



I didnt ask for a million reasons why not to.
Yet we answered.
If you don't want comments, don't post on a public forum.



I asked for health insurance. I had another feiend tell me about some.
Samaritan ministries and medishare. Maybe you all should look into them.
Why should I? I'm not dumb enough to quit my teaching job that has insurance.
And BTW, Samaritan Ministries and Medishare aren't insurance.
Link Posted: 5/20/2017 5:24:28 AM EDT
[#10]
If it is so bad yall should all let your ffl's go. Turn over your books to the atf. If your not in it to make money and run a business the atf doesnt want you to have an ffl anyways right? All i see in here is some fear mongering ffl's with  what i guess is bad bussiness models. There is no better time to be a buyer right now. Those buyers have to buy from a ffl. If your prices are to high cause you bought in at a higher cost when the market was up im sorry. If you really want to be a seller you can be right now. If you want to be the gun show museum guy you can, but dont tell me you cant make money right now. What better time for first time vuyers to get into the black rifle market. Once they catch the bug thats it. If you are competitively priced and offer good service yiu can make money. Nfa stuff is slow, but the thermal market is crazy right now too with new technology at an all time low cost to the consumer market.
Link Posted: 5/20/2017 2:07:37 PM EDT
[#11]
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Quoted:
If it is so bad yall should all let your ffl's go.
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
If it is so bad yall should all let your ffl's go.
Many already have done so. I can name a dozen in the DFW area in the last year. Runner Runner Guns- Irving was the latest retailer......two weeks ago.
Hell, one trip to Dallas Market Hall you'll see the North Hall vacant and dozens of empty tables in the Main Hall. Fours years ago there was a waiting list for tables and the entry line stretched a hundred yards.

I do transfers, a LOT OF TRANSFERS. I don't operate a retail storefront, I don't have thousands of $$$$ tied up in inventory, I don't spend time showing off guns that the buyer will eventually buy off the internet for $200 less. All I will collect is $20 for the transfer. I would bet that recently I make more profit on the transfer than those sellers do on the sale. In many cases retailers are selling guns BELOW cost just to create cash income.

Lately the most popular firearm is the S&W M&P 9 or M&P 45.........a quick look at Slickguns shows those selling at $300 or less (free shipping/no TX sales tax)  

RSR Distributors shows dealer cost at $343 + shipping. As a TX retailer you are going to collect 6.25-8.25% TX sales tax on that gun. Lets say you want 5% markup....that brings your price to no less than $382.      Do you see any problems with the math yet?
First question is why the hell would someone buy from you at $382 when they can get it from Palmetto at $320?
How much markup are you going to charge?
How many of those S&W Shields will you need to sell to turn a profit?
How many will you need to order to get a quantity discount?
How many of your customers will come in and look at your display guns and then go home and buy from Brownells or Palmetto?
How many will you need to order to get the same discount as Brownells or Palmetto?
Can you afford to dump inventory at below cost? They can.
What makes you think you will approach anywhere near the volume of Bud's, Kentucky Gun Co, Brownells or Palmetto? You damn well better know, because those are going to be your competitors, not Billy Bobs Tactical Gun & Pawn Shop across town.

Oh, and it's not just the S&W Shield that's being dumped at cost or below.


Turn over your books to the atf. If your not in it to make money and run a business the atf doesnt want you to have an ffl anyways right?
I doubt there are few who invest $$$$ and don't plan to make $$$$$$$$$$$$$$. The problem is dreams don't equal sales.
And the fact that you think its a good idea to quit your current job, invest your life savings in the gun business and can't afford insurance tells us that you really haven't thought this through very well. Taking that into account, you may be the last person who ought to be giving advice to other FFL's.

Other than saying you have "been saving money for inventory".......do you actually have a business plan? If you don't, you are a fool. And a business plan is only good if the plan is valid or well researched. "Lotsa people buying guns" isn't market research. The Obama gun buying panics weren't a valid forecasting tool and even companies like Daniel Defense miscalculated. Heck, Remington, Silencerco and other manufacturers have had massive layoffs since the first of the year.....yet you think it's a great time to start a gun business?





All i see in here is some fear mongering ffl's with  what i guess is bad bussiness models.
<----been in business for almost nine years. I average 2,000 Title I gun transfers a year and over a hundred NFA transfers a year. (and I didn't invest anything more than my time)
Do not confuse the advice you get here with fearmongering. I was told nine years ago that ATF "doesn't issue FFL's to home based businesses"....well that was bullshit. the gun dealer who told me that is now out of business. (and he had a retail storefront)

If you are so sure of your awesome business model......post it.




There is no better time to be a buyer right now.
True.


Those buyers have to buy from a ffl.
Well no shit Sherlock. The question is......WHY SHOULD THEY BUY FROM YOU?
Do you really think your "service" is worth a premium? Will your service beat Academy? Cabela's? or the kitchen table dealer a mile away? Will your service beat the pricing of an online dealer? You damn well better know before you go spend another $.
Are you prepared to weather a couple of years of a stagnated gun market before the next election? I hope so.




If your prices are to high cause you bought in at a higher cost when the market was up im sorry. If you really want to be a seller you can be right now. If you want to be the gun show museum guy you can, but dont tell me you cant make money right now.
Alrighty then.........lend us your knowledge. What guns have a lower dealer cost right now than in December? What gun are you going to sell to make money on? What guns will you have in inventory that are going to make you rich?
What sales acumen do you possess that will convince a buyer to pay you $382 for a S&W Shield instead of $300?
The fact that you don't yet have your FFL means you aren't privy to distributor pricing.......so how the fuck do you know a damn thing about pricing and selling guns at retail?




What better time for first time vuyers to get into the black rifle market. Once they catch the bug thats it. If you are competitively priced and offer good service yiu can make money. Nfa stuff is slow, but the thermal market is crazy right now too with new technology at an all time low cost to the consumer market.  
 
And you thought this up all by yourself? Is this your business plan?

DO NOT MISUNDERSTAND.
No one is telling you that you should abandon your dream, just advice from dealers who have seen this before. There are numerous threads on this subforum started by guys with little knowledge of the gun business. Some had lots of cash, but little business sense. Some had lots of business sense, but zero knowledge of the gun industry. One believed he could sell guns to people in Marfa, TX and make a living. Despite some great advice and warnings.....he lost his shirt.

No one here wants that to happen to any gun dealer, even a new guy. Sure, all you asked about was health insurance. You wrote "I asked for health insurance. I had another feiend tell me about some. Samaritan ministries and medishare. Maybe you all should look into them"............... if your business plan is equally well researched you are doomed to failure. Neither is insurance and they tell you that pretty clearly.

While waiting on your FFL to arrive I highly recommend reading every thread in this subforum so you don't repeat the same mistakes as others. Then join FFLsOnly.com
Link Posted: 5/20/2017 5:01:07 PM EDT
[#12]
I will be home based for now. I plan on doing tranfers of course for around $20 mark. Not set in stone yet on that price. The trasfer prices around here are around $40. Also plan on doing monthly transfer specials advertised on social media for less from time to time. I have a lot of friends and contacts in the firearm and hunting  culture around here. Im sure that will make up a small precentage of my sales. I am familiar with dealer pricing. I have a friend that is a dealer. Im looking to mostly specialize in the ar15 ak47 market. Of course i will carry other types of firearms but those are my most knowledgeable area. I will say i hate the pistol market. To many manufacturers, models, and colors to carry. I will not be stocking pistols until i have a better idea of what i can move. Im looking to specialize in the $500 -$1000 ar market. I can sell a $550 ar and make about $90 off of it. Im not looking to get rich, well not at first, just looking to make a decent living with more time to spend with friends and family. I also am aware that most of the money is not in the firearm but in the accessories.
Link Posted: 5/21/2017 4:09:00 PM EDT
[#13]
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Quoted:
I will be home based for now. I plan on doing tranfers of course for around $20 mark.
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Quoted:
I will be home based for now. I plan on doing tranfers of course for around $20 mark.
How many transfers a month to equal your current salary?
I'm in Plano.....there are a million people within a twenty minute drive of where I live. What is your market?



Not set in stone yet on that price.  
Why not?
Are you picking that price out of thin air or have you done research and a business plan?





The trasfer prices around here are around $40.
Again, where is "here"?





Also plan on doing monthly transfer specials advertised on social media for less from time to time.




I have a lot of friends and contacts in the firearm and hunting  culture around here. Im sure that will make up a small precentage of my sales.
What is "lots"?
Why would they choose to buy "gun X" from you if Academy has it cheaper?



I am familiar with dealer pricing. I have a friend that is a dealer.
So you'll be competing with him?

if you are that knowledgeable about dealer pricing....how many guns will you need to sell each month to pay your bills?




Im looking to mostly specialize in the ar15 ak47 market.
You are about ten years late to the party pal.




I will say i hate the pistol market. To many manufacturers, models, and colors to carry. I will not be stocking pistols until i have a better idea of what i can move.
Yet just a post above you seemed to be critical of other dealers and their bad business models.



Im looking to specialize in the $500 -$1000 ar market.
Oh brother, another one of those.
Again......you are a bit late to the party.



I can sell a $550 ar and make about $90 off of it.
From where?
Who made it? Radical? Olympic?




Im not looking to get rich, well not at first,
Obviously.



just looking to make a decent living with more time to spend with friends and family.
Well....when the hell do you plan on working at your business? Do you really think that many people will visit your home 8am-5pm to peruse your inventory or pickup their transfer?
Why not find an 8-5 job WITH insurance and run your gun biz after work and on weekends? When do your friends and family work or go to school?

I bet you'll find running a small business from home will REDUCE the amount of free time you have.





I also am aware that most of the money is not in the firearm but in the accessories.  
More profit for sure, but who the hell visits a home based dealer to look at accessories? Usually they go on the internet or to a real brick and mortar gun store.
Link Posted: 5/21/2017 9:10:53 PM EDT
[#14]
Another one without a business plan!
Link Posted: 6/13/2017 1:10:18 AM EDT
[#15]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I can sell a $550 ar and make about $90 off of it.
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Unless you are building your own AR's and / or source from a manufacturer of such parts.   Your going to be very hard pressed to make $90 off an AR and stay competitive.   You will be lucky to make $30-$40.

MP15 sports have been online recently for $399.   Ruger ARs are $450 now. (Retail online to public)


Good luck!
Link Posted: 6/13/2017 3:56:42 AM EDT
[#16]
I and my partner have had our FFL 7/SOT manufacturing license for many years now, we stopped selling guns and have focused on building Suppressors for several years now.  The only way to actually make money these days is to be a manufacture, $20 transfers don't pay the bills.  We also have several contracts with government agencies to supply items for them.

That said, it is expensive to get into the business if you are going to maintain any type of inventory at all, one of the biggest problems as a small one or two man operation, you can't buy at a low enough price to make what you need.  You have to find a niche market and be the best at it you can, I do transfers for friends every once in a while, but not often and not to make money.

Now as far as insurance, talk to people in the industry, used to be you could join various groups that have insurance availability, but they purchase as a group, I know in many states, there are gun orientated groups you become a member of and buy health insurance under their group policy for small business owner.

It takes some money to be in this business and it takes a lot of dedication, just remember if you have to order it for the customer, likely somebody else will have it in stock.  Also remember all of the zoning coding and liabilities you will incur, make sure your location will allow a gun dealer, many around the country won't, many companies will not issue a bond or liability insurance to firearms related business's and another thing many banks won't do business with you because you are in a firearms related business.

Good luck on your venture, it always seems great to be in the business, but the gun industry is not profitable for those who get in as a hobby business, you have to be devoted 110% and you will have to expect, you will loose money most of the time.  Right now is lean times for retailers because of how the last election turned out, that could change in the future, but I don't suspect it will be easy for anybody, if I was to do it right now, I would look at other product lines besides guns and gun accessories, mainly camping, fishing, etc.  I would make sure and have a range, which if you do a nice range, people will pay to use it.

Like I said, good luck, but just be prepared for what might come, it is fun to be your own boss, but I could not do it without my monthly retirement check from the Military as well as the income from my wife's internet business and now her social security, in addition my house and my shop are paid for as well as my land, so the only costs they have are the yearly taxes, insurance, bond and what ever else the county and the state throw at me.

Let us know how it goes for you.
Link Posted: 6/13/2017 6:06:38 AM EDT
[#17]
Buddy, once you start buying health insurance as an individual, your entire view of life will change.

Basically you will be fucked and raped, every month.

I know, I've bought my own since 1996.
In 2004 my premium, for a family of four, was just a tiny tick below $3,000.00 a mother fucking month.
Link Posted: 6/16/2017 7:23:25 PM EDT
[#18]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Buddy, once you start buying health insurance as an individual, your entire view of life will change.

Basically you will be fucked and raped, every month.

I know, I've bought my own since 1996.
In 2004 my premium, for a family of four, was just a tiny tick below $3,000.00 a mother fucking month.
View Quote
God I hope like hell your insurance company bought you a nice steak dinner each month and used lube later that night.
Link Posted: 6/20/2017 11:30:12 PM EDT
[#19]
I put in four new FFL applications for our company over the past couple of months, as well as state dealer licenses for handguns. A small store needs about $200,000 in inventory to start plus build out costs. The range and retail location we are building will probably be 1.5 million for buildout... before we even stock the shelves with another $250,000 in firearms.

It's not an easy business, it is VERY capital intensive. We have eight locations currently, and are growing by 50 percent in a year. Believe me, it's stressful, but it's like being a shark. If you're not swimming, you're going to die.
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