Is it Illegal for FFL (A) to buy from FFL (B) ? - Page 1

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Is it Illegal for FFL (A) to buy from FFL (B) ?

Posted: 5/12/2017 6:14:31 PM EDT

Is it illegal for an ffl to buy from another ffl for active resale?

obviously all sales tax issues handled with the proper tax exempt forms etc.

The reason i ask is, i have a fellow FFL friend whos in another state that has some firearms that he cant seem to unload.

i know for a fact i can unload those guns.

If there wasnt an FFL involved i wouldnt be asking. But im just wondering because hes technically not a "Distributor/Wholesaler" even though theres no such ffl license for such activity.

In my log book it would look like a simple transfer, but if the ATF asks for the invoice/receipts on that transfer(s) is what im wondering about.

thanks

Posted: 5/12/2017 6:17:59 PM EDT

[#1]

Are you serious? Of course it's legal. Log it in from him to you.

Posted: 5/12/2017 6:18:00 PM EDT

[#2]

Quoted:
Is it illegal for an ffl to buy from another ffl for active resale?

obviously all sales tax issues handled with the proper tax exempt forms etc.

The reason i ask is, i have a fellow FFL friend whos in another state that has some firearms that he cant seem to unload.

i know for a fact i can unload those guns.

If there wasnt an FFL involved i wouldnt be asking. But im just wondering because hes technically not a "Distributor/Wholesaler" even though theres no such ffl license for such activity.

In my log book it would look like a simple transfer, but if the ATF asks for the invoice/receipts on that transfer(s) is what im wondering about.

thanks

View Quote

This isn't an issue.

There is no requirement to be a "Distributor/Wholesaler." He would log the gun out to you and you'd acquire them from him. The price is also irrelevant, you can pay him after you've sold them if you want.

As long as the interstate transfer is one FFL to another, everything is fine.

Posted: 5/12/2017 6:39:09 PM EDT

[#3]

This is the basis of all your purchases from "distributors", too.

Posted: 5/12/2017 6:42:48 PM EDT

[#4]

How is that any different than a transfer you do from Bud's Guns, Grabagun, etc.?

Posted: 5/12/2017 6:43:22 PM EDT

[#5]

Quote History

Quoted:
Are you serious? Of course it's legal. Log it in from him to you.

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yes im serious.. never know with these Assholes That Fuck you and change shit left and right and make up their own shit as they go along.

i figured on a level that it was ok to do it and all. But to back it up with any questions they had on why i did etc.

but ok..

thanks guys.

now to tell my friend to send me his supply of glock 43s that he "CANT" sell and i dont see why.
id hate to say hes an idiot. but i guess he is a good friend. He rather sell them to me at a loss than to sell them to customers. etc. NO its not a MAP issue either.

Posted: 5/12/2017 6:44:31 PM EDT

[#6]

Quote History

Quoted:
How is that any different than a transfer you do from Bud's Guns, Grabagun, etc.?

View Quote

i wasnt talking a transfer for a customer.

I was talking about Buying some guns off my friend whos an FFL a few states over and reselling them because he cant seem to unload them .

Posted: 5/12/2017 7:03:10 PM EDT

[#7]

Quote History

Quoted:
i wasnt talking a transfer for a customer.

I was talking about Buying some guns off my friend whos an FFL a few states over and reselling them because he cant seem to unload them .

View Quote

An FFL can acquire firearms anywhere within the United States, from anyone.

Just document in your A&D from whom you got them, and when you transfer them on (sale/transfer/personal/other FFL) document the disposition.

Posted: 5/12/2017 7:08:06 PM EDT

[#8]

thanks for all the replies guys

Posted: 5/12/2017 7:18:06 PM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:
.....But im just wondering because hes technically not a "Distributor/Wholesaler"......

View Quote

You have the same 01FFL as any distributor in the country.
In fact, you could declare yourself a "distributor" if you want.

Posted: 5/12/2017 7:21:28 PM EDT

[#10]

Short answer: yes.

Long answer: yes, FFL-to-FFL interstate transfer.

Posted: 5/12/2017 8:49:35 PM EDT

[#11]

Quote History

Quoted:

i wasnt talking a transfer for a customer.

I was talking about Buying some guns off my friend whos an FFL . . .

View Quote

You're making an acquisition from an FFL. Eventually, you'll make a disposition to a customer. The only difference is the time that lapses between acquisition and disposition.

Posted: 5/12/2017 10:48:31 PM EDT

[#12]

Is it Illegal for FFL (A) to buy from FFL (B) ?

Quoted:
Is it illegal for an ffl to buy from another ffl for active resale?

obviously all sales tax issues handled with the proper tax exempt forms etc.

The reason i ask is, i have a fellow FFL friend whos in another state that has some firearms that he cant seem to unload.

i know for a fact i can unload those guns.

If there wasnt an FFL involved i wouldnt be asking. But im just wondering because hes technically not a "Distributor/Wholesaler" even though theres no such ffl license for such activity.

In my log book it would look like a simple transfer, but if the ATF asks for the invoice/receipts on that transfer(s) is what im wondering about.

thanks

View Quote

WTF?

You should cease doing business until you have read the FFRG.

eta

I did not mean this as a slam. I am serious. If you are unsure if you can buy from another FFL, it is just no possible you understand all the other aspects of the firearm business. You are almost surely violating regs much more complex and detailed. I seriously doubt you are doing taxes and other business issues correct either. Seriously, stop and get some help before you get into a heap of trouble.

Posted: 5/13/2017 2:49:26 PM EDT

[#13]

Quote History

Quoted:
Is it Illegal for FFL (A) to buy from FFL (B) ?

WTF?

You should cease doing business until you have read the FFRG.

eta

I did not mean this as a slam. I am serious. If you are unsure if you can buy from another FFL, it is just no possible you understand all the other aspects of the firearm business. You are almost surely violating regs much more complex and detailed. I seriously doubt you are doing taxes and other business issues correct either. Seriously, stop and get some help before you get into a heap of trouble.

View Quote

my question WASNT about transfering legally the items..

my question was merely about if there was something ATF had declared that we couldnt buy from another FFL to RESALE.

thats all.

obviously the transfer aspect is same like any other transfer logged into the book.
it was a just a question of resale. anyone can do anything. i just wanted to be sure there wasnt some crap ATF declared thats all.

my business taxes and other business issues are perfectly fine.

What regs could i possibly be violating?

buy gun from sources
find customers
custome wants to buy
fills out 4473
process nics
review 4473 for completeness and make sure all issues followed to be able to transfer a firearm
nics cleared and properly completed 4473

sell gun to person.

am i missing something sir?
im not sure what regs i could possibly be violating.
FFL business is something new to me yes. But i been in business for the last 15 years with other types. The main one being a used Car Dealer(current)

but please do tell me what i could be possibly violating, since you seem to think i might be.

Posted: 5/13/2017 2:52:30 PM EDT

[#14]

Quote History

Quoted:

What regs could i possibly be violating?

buy gun from sources
find customers
custome wants to buy
fills out 4473
process nics
review 4473 for completeness and make sure all issues followed to be able to transfer a firearm
nics cleared and properly completed 4473

sell gun to person.

am i missing something sir?

View Quote

well you missed making entries in your A&D book. ROFL

Good Luck!

Posted: 5/13/2017 2:58:47 PM EDT

[#15]

Quote History

Quoted:

well you missed making entries in your A&D book. ROFL

Good Luck!

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yes.. sorry forgot to enter that..but i do that after the customer leaves.

by the way.. its FFRRG not FFRG

Posted: 5/13/2017 3:04:01 PM EDT

[#16]

Quote History

Quoted:

yes.. sorry forgot to enter that..but i do that after the customer leaves.

View Quote View All Quotes

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Quote History

Quoted:

yes.. sorry forgot to enter that..but i do that after the customer leaves.

Well if that is only when you do it, add another violation!

Quoted:
by the way.. its FFRRG not FFRG

1 internet point for you, auto-correct updated.

Posted: 5/13/2017 3:08:37 PM EDT

[#17]

Quote History

Quoted:

Well if that is only when you do it, add another violation!

.

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only on a sale of a firearm..

but not a transfer only.

sorry didnt know we were keeping track of points.

i only threw in the FFRRG because you seem to prefer accuracy. you can keep the point.

Posted: 5/13/2017 3:11:08 PM EDT

[#18]

Quote History

Quoted:

only on a sale of a firearm.. WRONG

but not a transfer only. WRONG

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OMG, even after I tipped you off, you are still wrong, twice. Seriously dude, get some help. Not looking to argue, only help.

Renegade Out

Posted: 5/13/2017 4:08:03 PM EDT

[#19]

Quote History

Quoted:
my question was merely about if there was something ATF had declared that we couldnt buy from another FFL to RESALE.

View Quote

That is literally the purpose of having an FFL--there is absolutely no difference, as far as ATF is concerned, between "buying for resale" and "transferring from out of state". That you're asking the question at all is troubling.

Edit: But I'm curious about the thought process here. You seem to be thinking that a sale is somehow different than a transfer. What makes you think this is the case? In what way do you believe they're different?

Posted: 5/13/2017 4:14:48 PM EDT

[#20]

Quote History

Quoted:
Is it Illegal for FFL (A) to buy from FFL (B) ?

WTF?

You should cease doing business until you have read the FFRG.

eta

I did not mean this as a slam. I am serious. If you are unsure if you can buy from another FFL, it is just no possible you understand all the other aspects of the firearm business. You are almost surely violating regs much more complex and detailed. I seriously doubt you are doing taxes and other business issues correct either. Seriously, stop and get some help before you get into a heap of trouble.

View Quote

Unfortunately, this.

Posted: 5/14/2017 1:09:50 AM EDT

[#21]

Quote History

Quoted:

only on a sale of a firearm..

but not a transfer only. . .

View Quote

Please tell me that you are acquiring and disposing ALL firearms that are transferred to and from your FFL. If I send you a gun for you to transfer to somebody in your state it MUST be acquired from me and disposed to the person you transferred it to.

As for what you may be possibly missing if you aren't sure about your question - there's tons.

To name a few likely suspects that I see my clients get jammed up for:
Failing to acquire Glocks and describe Glocks on a 4473 as "Glock/Glock, Inc." or "Glock, Inc." (whether imported or not) instead of simply "Glock" (never correct).
If using an electronic A&D, not having at least the last 6 months "printed" (can be on a digital media device) and available for the ATF.
Failing to properly correct errors on a 4473 (1) before completion of a transaction with a single line and initials and (2) after completion of transaction with a copy of the 4473.
Failure to submit a Multiple Sales Report for two or more handguns purchased within 5 business days (not calendar days).
Assembling an AR-15 lower with an AR-15 upper without a Type 7 FFL and without properly marking the firearms.
Selling an AR-15 receiver to an 18 year old.
Etc, etc, etc.

Posted: 5/14/2017 1:58:10 AM EDT

[#22]

Please tell me that you are acquiring and disposing ALL firearms that are transferred to and from your FFL. If I send you a gun for you to transfer to somebody in your state it MUST be acquired from me and disposed to the person you transferred it to.

As for what you may be possibly missing if you aren't sure about your question - there's tons.

To name a few likely suspects that I see my clients get jammed up for:
Failing to acquire Glocks and describe Glocks on a 4473 as "Glock/Glock, Inc." or "Glock, Inc." (whether imported or not) instead of simply "Glock" (never correct). i write exactly all info as given about the item. i dont pull info on the importer/manufacturer outta thin air.
If using an electronic A&D, not having at least the last 6 months "printed" (can be on a digital media device) and available for the ATF. I only use a written A&D book
Failing to properly correct errors on a 4473 (1) before completion of a transaction with a single line and initials and (2) after completion of transaction with a copy of the 4473. i always check the 4473 after the customer fills it out. Usually while the Nics check is running.
Failure to submit a Multiple Sales Report for two or more handguns purchased within 5 business days (not calendar days). i do this one immediatly if its in same day/same customer. and if over a certain few days etc...then as soon as its required but not really alot on this issue for me. more rare than anything for me to have single customer trigger this.
Assembling an AR-15 lower with an AR-15 upper without a Type 7 FFL and without properly marking the firearms. i dont assemble shit. Everyone does it themselves. Again Clients usually mid 30s-40s
Selling an AR-15 receiver to an 18 year old. 21 years and up only. Dont sell lowers anyway. I do transfer them, but obviously to 21 and up. Most of my clients are in their mid 30-40s
Etc, etc, etc.

Posted: 5/14/2017 2:00:52 AM EDT

[#23]

Quote History

Quoted:

Please tell me that you are acquiring and disposing ALL firearms that are transferred to and from your FFL. If I send you a gun for you to transfer to somebody in your state it MUST be acquired from me and disposed to the person you transferred it to.

.

View Quote

I said that on a sale of a firearm i do the A&D logging after customer leaves.

On a transfer i do the A&D logging While the customer is there.

Eta... Sorry my mistake.. Looks like i didnt cleary add in the details on the logging in my original post. I just went back and looked at it.

Everything is Logged. I was trying to say that i logged sales after customer leaves and transfers Only while the customer is there.
i wasnt trying to say that i only log Sales and not Transfers. my mistake on that for not being clear.

Posted: 5/14/2017 2:05:38 AM EDT

[#24]

Quote History

Quoted:
Failing to acquire Glocks and describe Glocks on a 4473 as "Glock/Glock, Inc." or "Glock, Inc." (whether imported or not) instead of simply "Glock" (never correct). i write exactly all info as given about the item. i dont pull info on the importer/manufacturer outta thin air.
If using an electronic A&D, not having at least the last 6 months "printed" (can be on a digital media device) and available for the ATF. I only use a written A&D book
Failing to properly correct errors on a 4473 (1) before completion of a transaction with a single line and initials and (2) after completion of transaction with a copy of the 4473. i always check the 4473 after the customer fills it out. Usually while the Nics check is running.
Failure to submit a Multiple Sales Report for two or more handguns purchased within 5 business days (not calendar days). i do this one immediatly if its in same day/same customer. and if over a certain few days etc...then as soon as its required but not really alot on this issue for me. more rare than anything for me to have single customer trigger this.
Assembling an AR-15 lower with an AR-15 upper without a Type 7 FFL and without properly marking the firearms. i dont assemble shit. Everyone does it themselves. Again Clients usually mid 30s-40s
Selling an AR-15 receiver to an 18 year old. 21 years and up only. Dont sell lowers anyway. I do transfer them, but obviously to 21 and up. Most of my clients are in their mid 30-40s
Etc, etc, etc.

View Quote

Awesome!

ETA - as a note, make sure you are taking the markings from the firearm and not the box and/or shipping info. Sometimes the serial number of the actual gun is different than the box or the manufacturer is different. For example, a Springfield XD will likely say "Springfield Armory" on the box, but is is marked as manufactured by "HS Produkt" on the firearm.

Posted: 5/14/2017 2:06:15 AM EDT

[#25]

Quote History

Quoted:
Eta... Sorry my mistake.. Looks like i didnt cleary add in the details on the logging in my original post. I just went back and looked at it.

Everything is Logged. I was trying to say that i logged sales after customer leaves and transfers Only while the customer is there.
i wasnt trying to say that i only log Sales and not Transfers. my mistake on that for not being clear.

View Quote

No worries, I'm tracking now.

Posted: 5/14/2017 7:43:05 AM EDT

[#26]

Quote History

Quoted:
Everything is Logged. I was trying to say that i logged sales after customer leaves and transfers Only while the customer is there.

View Quote

Why are you treating sales and transfers differently? They aren't. For ATF purposes, they're exactly the same thing. I don't know if it particularly matters whether you log the gun out while the customer's in the store, or immediately after the customer leaves, but it seems better to me to do it the same way every time.

Again, there seems to be an underlying belief that sales and transfers are different. Why?

Posted: 5/17/2017 2:22:49 AM EDT

[#27]

OP, it appears that you have so little understanding of the rules and regulations, that I can only suggest that you liquidate your inventory and return your license to the BATFE before you get yourself in some real trouble.