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Posted: 7/26/2016 10:28:12 AM EDT
[#1]
thx
GD is not for me. |
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Posted: 7/27/2016 10:24:56 AM EDT
[#2]
This is fucked up. The way I read it, I can not use any machines to do gunsmith work without being subject to ITAR registration & fee.
Example:I can mount a scope on an existing rail. But, I cannot drill and tap to install a rail on a rifle that has no provision for a rail, in order to mount a scope. Example II: Without paying & registering for ITAR, I cannot shorten a barrel and then blind pin a flash hider/brake.(threading & drilling required) I have discussed this with a few others in the business, and they are collectively sticking their heads in the sand, fingers in ears and going LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL. Or, "I don't make defense articles. This doesn't change anything for me". |
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Posted: 7/27/2016 8:33:32 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This is fucked up. The way I read it, I can not use any machines to do gunsmith work without being subject to ITAR registration & fee. Example:I can mount a scope on an existing rail. But, I cannot drill and tap to install a rail on a rifle that has no provision for a rail, in order to mount a scope. Example II: Without paying & registering for ITAR, I cannot shorten a barrel and then blind pin a flash hider/brake.(threading & drilling required) I have discussed this with a few others in the business, and they are collectively sticking their heads in the sand, fingers in ears and going LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL. Or, "I don't make defense articles. This doesn't change anything for me". No shit, I know a lot of Smiths are bury their head types but to not pay attention to this is suicide. The thing that gets me: BATFE regulates "Commerce in Firearms" and as such clearly defines when a "Manufacturer" (07) FFL is mandated. And yet a different entity can in an arbitral fashion decide what "Manufacturing" entails when it comes to firearms. This is a very clear example of conflicting regulations. Who takes precedence? |
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Posted: 7/27/2016 8:51:27 PM EDT
[#4]
A friend of mine, and the only gunsmith less than an hour away let his license expire because he wasn't going to pay fee to register with ITAR.
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Posted: 7/28/2016 12:38:38 AM EDT
[#5]
What. THE. Blue. Fuck.
Let me see if I understand this correctly: Some obscure regulatory agency, I've never even fucking heard of, passes a ruling that any 01 FFL who basically drills and taps a receiver, cuts, threads or blind pins a barrel now, needs to register with ITAR and pay ridiculous ITAR taxes? Please correct me if I'm wrong, but am I reading this right???? Is this considered effective Immediately? Under who's authority??? |
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Posted: 7/28/2016 1:27:38 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Under who's authority??? This is the problem with how laws are written these days. The separation of powers in the constitution is written so that only the legislature can make laws and the executive branch can only enforce them. This was purposefully done because the colonists got tired of seeing a king that could just make stuff up whenever they chose. But our elected officials in congress have been passing laws for the last 80 or years where they abrogate their constitutional duties and out source them to the "King". They basically write them to say say federal gov agencies (unelected bureaucrats in the executive branch) are free to make up regulations as they see fit and these regulations have the full force of law Just one of the many ways we are so far away from the original intent of the constitution. |
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Posted: 7/28/2016 7:16:32 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This is the problem with how laws are written these days. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Under who's authority??? This is the problem with how laws are written these days. Understand this- this is not "Law", it is "Regulation" and as such no Congressional approval is required. This administration made it clear after the failure to get any legislation passed after Shady Hook, if they could not get gun control passed legislatively they would get it via regulation. |
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Posted: 7/28/2016 7:21:31 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What. THE. Blue. Fuck. Let me see if I understand this correctly: Some obscure regulatory agency, I've never even fucking heard of, passes a ruling that any 01 FFL who basically drills and taps a receiver, cuts, threads or blind pins a barrel now, needs to register with ITAR and pay ridiculous ITAR taxes? Please correct me if I'm wrong, but am I reading this right???? You are reading it correctly. And according to their verbiage this applies regardless of what class of FFL you are, even if you do not export anything nor have intent to export ever. Additionally according to them even a single instance of "Manufacturing" mandates compliance. |
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Posted: 7/28/2016 8:13:00 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No shit, I know a lot of Smiths are bury their head types but to not pay attention to this is suicide. The thing that gets me: BATFE regulates "Commerce in Firearms" and as such clearly defines when a "Manufacturer" (07) FFL is mandated. And yet a different entity can in an arbitral fashion decide what "Manufacturing" entails when it comes to firearms. This is a very clear example of conflicting regulations. Who takes precedence? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
This is fucked up. The way I read it, I can not use any machines to do gunsmith work without being subject to ITAR registration & fee. Example:I can mount a scope on an existing rail. But, I cannot drill and tap to install a rail on a rifle that has no provision for a rail, in order to mount a scope. Example II: Without paying & registering for ITAR, I cannot shorten a barrel and then blind pin a flash hider/brake.(threading & drilling required) I have discussed this with a few others in the business, and they are collectively sticking their heads in the sand, fingers in ears and going LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL. Or, "I don't make defense articles. This doesn't change anything for me". No shit, I know a lot of Smiths are bury their head types but to not pay attention to this is suicide. The thing that gets me: BATFE regulates "Commerce in Firearms" and as such clearly defines when a "Manufacturer" (07) FFL is mandated. And yet a different entity can in an arbitral fashion decide what "Manufacturing" entails when it comes to firearms. This is a very clear example of conflicting regulations. Who takes precedence? Neither takes precedence. ITAR registration and FFLs are two separate items managed by separate entities. Just because in the past the requirements of when a license and registration are needed were similar, doesn't mean they have to be. |
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Posted: 7/28/2016 8:45:13 AM EDT
[#10]
The BATFE definition of "manufacturing" is based in tax law. Take a complete lower receiver that has never been built into either a handgun or a long gun, throw an upper on it to sell as a rifle - or even sell the two on the same invoice - and you the FFL have "manufactured" a complete firearm so FAET is due.
DOS recognize that simply pushing two pins does not constitute a manufacturing process so they have defined what does for the purposes of ITAR registration. Unfortunately their definitions cover a lot of the typical activities for a gunsmith. |
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Posted: 7/28/2016 9:05:08 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A friend of mine, and the only gunsmith less than an hour away let his license expire because he wasn't going to pay fee to register with ITAR. If the fee were the "reasonable" $200ish that it used to be there might not be quite as much moaning. But now it's, what, nearly $2K a year? 
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Posted: 7/28/2016 9:11:13 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If the fee were the "reasonable" $200ish that it used to be there might not be quite as much moaning. But now it's, what, nearly $2K a year? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
A friend of mine, and the only gunsmith less than an hour away let his license expire because he wasn't going to pay fee to register with ITAR. If the fee were the "reasonable" $200ish that it used to be there might not be quite as much moaning. But now it's, what, nearly $2K a year? Yup, joe bob's gun shop which nets maybe 45K a year is no different than Smith and Wesson to them. I'd contact my reps but they are the leading anti gun folk in this country (CT) so I can only hope that you guys do it and get some headway. |
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Posted: 7/28/2016 10:21:37 AM EDT
[#13]
We've notified NRA/ILA & NSSF, neither was aware of it.
Every licensee should call them. The more calls, the better. Social Media too, if you use it. |
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Posted: 7/28/2016 10:39:27 AM EDT
[#14]
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Posted: 7/28/2016 11:19:51 AM EDT
[#15]
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Posted: 7/28/2016 11:43:54 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You are reading it correctly. And according to their verbiage this applies regardless of what class of FFL you are, even if you do not export anything nor have intent to export ever. Additionally according to them even a single instance of "Manufacturing" mandates compliance. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
What. THE. Blue. Fuck. Let me see if I understand this correctly: Some obscure regulatory agency, I've never even fucking heard of, passes a ruling that any 01 FFL who basically drills and taps a receiver, cuts, threads or blind pins a barrel now, needs to register with ITAR and pay ridiculous ITAR taxes? Please correct me if I'm wrong, but am I reading this right???? You are reading it correctly. And according to their verbiage this applies regardless of what class of FFL you are, even if you do not export anything nor have intent to export ever. Additionally according to them even a single instance of "Manufacturing" mandates compliance. Wow. Great plan to "regulate" a lot a small gunsmithing businesses right out of the picture.  Pardon me if I missed it somewhere, but when is this "regulation" considered effective, or is it already in effect?
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Posted: 7/28/2016 12:31:26 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Wow. Great plan to "regulate" a lot a small gunsmithing businesses right out of the picture. Pardon me if I missed it somewhere, but when is this "regulation" considered effective, or is it already in effect?Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
What. THE. Blue. Fuck. Let me see if I understand this correctly: Some obscure regulatory agency, I've never even fucking heard of, passes a ruling that any 01 FFL who basically drills and taps a receiver, cuts, threads or blind pins a barrel now, needs to register with ITAR and pay ridiculous ITAR taxes? Please correct me if I'm wrong, but am I reading this right???? You are reading it correctly. And according to their verbiage this applies regardless of what class of FFL you are, even if you do not export anything nor have intent to export ever. Additionally according to them even a single instance of "Manufacturing" mandates compliance. Wow. Great plan to "regulate" a lot a small gunsmithing businesses right out of the picture. Pardon me if I missed it somewhere, but when is this "regulation" considered effective, or is it already in effect?It is their guidance on who must register based on existing law and the CFR's, effective immediately. |
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Posted: 7/28/2016 1:34:12 PM EDT
[#18]
This could really go sideways if individuals who file form 1s are interpreted to be manufacturers.
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Posted: 7/28/2016 1:42:28 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This could really go sideways if individuals who file form 1s are interpreted to be manufacturers. Non-licensees filing Form 1's should not be in the business of manufacturing and selling firearms, which is a prerequisite for ITAR registration. If they are in the business then they got bigger legal problems than not registering for ITAR. |
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Posted: 7/28/2016 9:21:55 PM EDT
[#20]
I spoke with an Industry Operations Field Inspector with the BATFE today regarding this. She was not directly familiar with this particular directive she has a basic knowledge of I.T.A.R.
I read her some of the verbiage and she felt it was "Excessive" and "Unnecessary unless one is exporting defense related goods". She agrees it really puts the screws to Gunsmiths as most of them are small businesses as myself. She actually was very pleasant to deal with. Unfortunately she did state that a FFL must abide by all local, state and federal regulations. She also suggested I call I.T.A.R. for clarification and guidance. I called Gardeners office and another Senator out of Montana(Steve Daines) who has dealt with getting ITAR regulations stepped back in the past. We shall see what comes out in the wash but until then, I feel I will have to effectively shut the doors for the time being. FML |
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