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Posted: 11/11/2015 2:57:11 PM EDT
If you're a non FFL just selling firearm accessories do you need to pay these ITAR fees?

No intention of selling outside of the US.

What about if you're an FFL with no intention of selling outside of the US? Are you subject to ITAR fees?
Link Posted: 11/11/2015 3:32:09 PM EDT
[#1]
Link Posted: 11/11/2015 11:24:08 PM EDT
[#2]

§122.1   Registration requirements.
(a) Any person who engages in the United States in the business of manufacturing or exporting or temporarily importing defense articles, or furnishing defense services, is required to register with the Directorate of Defense Trade Controls under §122.2. For the purpose of this subchapter, engaging in such a business requires only one occasion of manufacturing or exporting or temporarily importing a defense article or furnishing a defense service. A manufacturer who does not engage in exporting must nevertheless register. (See part 129 of this subchapter for requirements for registration of persons who engage in brokering activities.)

(b) Exemptions. The registration requirements of paragraph (a) of this section do not apply to:

(1) Officers and employees of the U.S. Government acting in an official capacity;

(2) Persons whose pertinent business activity is confined to the production of unclassified technical data only;

(3) Persons all of whose manufacturing and export activities are licensed under the Atomic Energy Act of 1954, as amended; or

(4) Persons who engage in the fabrication of articles solely for experimental or scientific purposes, including research and development.

Note to paragraph (b): Persons who qualify for the exemptions in paragraphs (b)(2) or (b)(4) of this section remain subject to the requirements for licenses or other approvals for exports of defense articles and defense services and may not receive an export license or approval unless registered under §122.2.

(c) Purpose. Registration is primarily a means to provide the U.S. Government with necessary information on who is involved in certain manufacturing and exporting activities. Registration does not confer any export rights or privileges. It is generally a precondition to the issuance of any license or other approval under this subchapter, unless an exception is granted by the Directorate of Defense Trade Controls.

[78 FR 52686, Aug. 26, 2013]

View Quote
Link Posted: 11/12/2015 12:55:59 AM EDT
[#3]
i understand barrels, uppers and lowers that have serial numbers would be for ITAR

but what about manufacturing a rifle chassis as an accessory that doesnt require serial numbers?

its just a bare chassis with no firearm.  like a sporting stock, dress up kits or an XLR chassis thats been inletted

Link Posted: 11/12/2015 9:54:40 AM EDT
[#4]
US Munitions List is here:

US Munitions List

What you are asking about would be (h);

Category I—Firearms, Close Assault Weapons and Combat Shotguns

*(a) Nonautomatic and semi-automatic firearms to caliber .50 inclusive (12.7 mm).

*(b) Fully automatic firearms to .50 caliber inclusive (12.7 mm).

*(c) Firearms or other weapons (e.g. insurgency-counterinsurgency, close assault weapons systems) having a special military application regardless of caliber.

*(d) Combat shotguns. This includes any shotgun with a barrel length less than 18 inches.

*(e) Silencers, mufflers, sound and flash suppressors for the articles in (a) through (d) of this category and their specifically designed, modified or adapted components and parts.

(f) Riflescopes manufactured to military specifications (See category XII(c) for controls on night sighting devices.)

*(g) Barrels, cylinders, receivers (frames) or complete breech mechanisms for the articles in paragraphs (a) through (d) of this category.

(h) Components, parts, accessories and attachments for the articles in paragraphs (a) through (g) of this category.
Link Posted: 11/12/2015 1:12:18 PM EDT
[#5]
My understanding from reading this ATF Newsletter is that anyone who is a Manufacturer must register with ITAR.

This requirement appears to be regardless of what they are making, whether or not they are exporting, and whether or not they are even making a product. The simple fact they are a Manufacturer is the requirement for registering with ITAR.
Link Posted: 11/12/2015 3:13:03 PM EDT
[#6]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
My understanding from reading this ATF Newsletter is that anyone who is a Manufacturer must register with ITAR.

This requirement appears to be regardless of what they are making, whether or not they are exporting, and whether or not they are even making a product. The simple fact they are a Manufacturer is the requirement for registering with ITAR.
View Quote



Wow the fee to register is $2,250.00

This is discouraging for a new hobbyist with a small budget trying to design and sell a rifle chassis and you're already going to be down the hole $2k.

My goal was to machine out a chassis 1 at a time whenever an order came in since I don't have the funds to machine in bulk quantities.

Link Posted: 11/12/2015 8:44:01 PM EDT
[#7]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
My understanding from reading this ATF Newsletter is that anyone who is a Manufacturer must register with ITAR.

This requirement appears to be regardless of what they are making, whether or not they are exporting, and whether or not they are even making a product. The simple fact they are a Manufacturer is the requirement for registering with ITAR.
View Quote


ATF is not correct and ATF does not regulate ITAR. That's state department.

I have a letter out to DDTC for a client to confirm that he need not register for ITAR given the things he is doing and he is an 07 FFL. It all depends on what you're doing.
Link Posted: 11/20/2015 12:43:24 AM EDT
[#8]
I just spend some time reading over at the US State Department website. Anything I would want do under a 07/02 is on the US Munitions List so I would be required to register and pay if I decide to get my 07/02. I think this would be, by design, the case for most people seeking a 07/02.
Link Posted: 11/21/2015 1:54:41 AM EDT
[#9]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
ATF is not correct and ATF does not regulate ITAR. That's state department.

I have a letter out to DDTC for a client to confirm that he need not register for ITAR given the things he is doing and he is an 07 FFL. It all depends on what you're doing.
View Quote

I think OP would have to register though as he's doing the machine work on the product, not merely assembling parts sourced from other manufacturers.
Link Posted: 11/21/2015 8:56:00 PM EDT
[#10]
BATFE and DDTC are completely separate and it appears there's not much comm between the two. We're a new 07 and our lawyers spoke with DDTC this week - the answer was an unequivocal "ALL 07's must register with DDTC irregardless of export intent". Best part is you have to send them the $2250 before you can even submit the Form DS2032. Crazy but true.

Link to DDTC Form DS2032:

https://www.pmddtc.state.gov/registration/documents/DS2032.pdf
Link Posted: 11/22/2015 5:03:44 PM EDT
[#11]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
........... our lawyers spoke with DDTC this week - the answer was an unequivocal "ALL 07's must register with DDTC irregardless of export intent". .......  
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Is that the EXACT language used? Or did DDTC use the term "manufacturer"?
DDTC has previously held that only actual manufacturers, not just those with "07's" must register............and then only if the manufacturer was actually making items on the ITAR list.

07FFL's who only assemble firearms (such as assembling AR's from parts manufactured by someone else) do not meet DDTC's definition of "manufacturer".
Link Posted: 11/22/2015 5:15:31 PM EDT
[#12]
Link Posted: 11/23/2015 10:49:54 PM EDT
[#13]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

I think OP would have to register though as he's doing the machine work on the product, not merely assembling parts sourced from other manufacturers.
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
ATF is not correct and ATF does not regulate ITAR. That's state department.

I have a letter out to DDTC for a client to confirm that he need not register for ITAR given the things he is doing and he is an 07 FFL. It all depends on what you're doing.

I think OP would have to register though as he's doing the machine work on the product, not merely assembling parts sourced from other manufacturers.


I'd tend to agree with you.
Link Posted: 11/25/2015 11:44:57 PM EDT
[#14]
Not a lawyer, and wasn't on the call so can't tell you the exact language that was used. That said - here's chapter/verse from the BATFE Regs (note 7.2.2):

Section 7.2  What is a “manufactur
er”?;  What is “manufacturing”?
7.2.1  “Manufacturer”.
 As defined by the GCA, a “manufact
urer” is any person engaged in the
business of manufacturing fir
earms or ammunition for purposes
of sale or distribution.
109
 Similarly,
NFA defines the term to mean any person “who is e
ngaged in the business of
manufacturing firearms”,
that is, firearms subject to the NFA.
110
 To determine who is a “manufacturer” of firearms, we must look
to see whether the person manufactures
firearms as discussed in Section 7.2.2.
7.2.2  “Manufacturing”.
 “Manufacturing” is not defined by th
e law, regulations, or any formal ATF
ruling. Nevertheless, the term has
been interpreted by ATF to cover
activities other than producing a
firearm from scratch. As interpreted by ATF, the term
covers virtually any work performed on a firearm
during the process of preparing the
firearm for subsequent sale. For ex
ample, a person having a contract
with a manufacturer to apply finish
ing or other work on firearms, or fi
rearms frames or receivers, to
prepare them for subsequent sale by the manufacturer
would be a “manufacturer
” required to qualify as
such. Of course, if the person produced firearms
parts other than frames or receivers for the
manufacturer or performed work on
firearms parts not defined as “fir
earms,” the person would not be a
“manufacturer.”
Link Posted: 11/25/2015 11:58:38 PM EDT
[#15]

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Not a lawyer, and wasn't on the call so can't tell you the exact language that was used. That said - here's chapter/verse from the BATFE Regs (note 7.2.2):

Section 7.2  What is a “manufactur
er”?;  What is “manufacturing”?
7.2.1  “Manufacturer”..........  
View Quote

Yeah........all the 01's and 07's in this forum know that.

The issue is, the DDTC definition of manufacturer is not the same.
ATF requires an 07FFL to assemble AR's.......DDTC has always held that merely assembling a firearm is not manufacturing.
Link Posted: 11/26/2015 3:28:56 AM EDT
[#16]
Manufacturing a rifle chassis or wood stock arent firearms.  It also doesnt require any type of FFL.

This would fall under no ITAR registration
Link Posted: 11/26/2015 10:21:20 AM EDT
[#17]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Manufacturing a rifle chassis or wood stock arent firearms.  It also doesnt require any type of FFL.

This would fall under no ITAR registration
View Quote


Military grade chassis or even wood stocks for a M1 Garand are on the US Munitions List and are ITAR controlled. 121.1(h).
Link Posted: 11/26/2015 2:13:55 PM EDT
[#18]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Military grade chassis or even wood stocks for a M1 Garand are on the US Munitions List and are ITAR controlled. 121.1(h).
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Manufacturing a rifle chassis or wood stock arent firearms.  It also doesnt require any type of FFL.

This would fall under no ITAR registration


Military grade chassis or even wood stocks for a M1 Garand are on the US Munitions List and are ITAR controlled. 121.1(h).


What does military grade chassis even mean?  What's a non military grade chassis?

I'll be using 6061 aluminum billets

Link Posted: 11/26/2015 2:25:52 PM EDT
[#19]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


What does military grade chassis even mean?  What's a non military grade chassis?

I'll be using 6061 aluminum billets

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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Manufacturing a rifle chassis or wood stock arent firearms.  It also doesnt require any type of FFL.

This would fall under no ITAR registration


Military grade chassis or even wood stocks for a M1 Garand are on the US Munitions List and are ITAR controlled. 121.1(h).


What does military grade chassis even mean?  What's a non military grade chassis?

I'll be using 6061 aluminum billets



If it is for a military gun
Link Posted: 11/26/2015 2:49:41 PM EDT
[#20]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


If it is for a military gun
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Manufacturing a rifle chassis or wood stock arent firearms.  It also doesnt require any type of FFL.

This would fall under no ITAR registration


Military grade chassis or even wood stocks for a M1 Garand are on the US Munitions List and are ITAR controlled. 121.1(h).


What does military grade chassis even mean?  What's a non military grade chassis?

I'll be using 6061 aluminum billets



If it is for a military gun


nope

just civilian Rem 700 SA/LA and Savage MKII and Ruger 10/22's
Link Posted: 11/27/2015 12:18:39 AM EDT
[#21]
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Quoted:
just civilian Rem 700 SA/LA and Savage MKII and Ruger 10/22's
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The military uses precision rifles based on the Rem 700 action.  IIRC the only "non-military" firearms are single-shot sporting shotguns.
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