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Posted: 7/11/2015 12:36:50 PM EDT
I have a few questions on a FFLs and I was hoping the good folks here could help me.  

I recently got in to cerakoting, and was thinking of opening a small business based around that.  I have all of the equipment and plan on getting certified to do it within the year.  I was looking to buy bulk stripped uppers and lowers, cerakote, and then resell.  Would that make me a manufacturer for just painting them?  If it does, would I have to do anything else if I wanted to install parts kits and just sell completed lowers which I know makes you a manufacturer?  Also I would have to start this business from home for the moment, but would like to get a storefront somewhere within the next year or two if it works out.  I dont know if that would matter or effect my chances of getting approved for an FFL.
Link Posted: 7/11/2015 1:19:57 PM EDT
[#1]
It's been a while, but I recall that you would be classified as a manufacturer or in the least a gun smith. Hell they are saying that if a regular FFL installs scopes they need to have a different license!
Link Posted: 7/11/2015 2:03:00 PM EDT
[#2]

For example, ATF Ruling 2009-1 (approved January 12, 2009) explained that
performing a cosmetic process or activity, such as camouflaging or engraving, that primarily adds to or
changes the appearance or decoration of a firearm is not manufacturing. Likewise, ATF Ruling 2009-2
(approved January 12, 2009) stated that installing “drop-in” replacement parts in or on existing, fully
assembled firearms does not result in any alteration to the original firearms. Persons engaged in the
business of these activities that do not constitute firearms manufacturing need only obtain a dealer’s
license.


https://www.atf.gov/file/82791/download
Link Posted: 7/11/2015 3:52:48 PM EDT
[#3]

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:




For example, ATF Ruling 2009-1 (approved January 12, 2009) explained that

performing a cosmetic process or activity, such as camouflaging or engraving, that primarily adds to or

changes the appearance or decoration of a firearm is not manufacturing. Likewise, ATF Ruling 2009-2

(approved January 12, 2009) stated that installing "drop-in” replacement parts in or on existing, fully

assembled firearms does not result in any alteration to the original firearms. Persons engaged in the

business of these activities that do not constitute firearms manufacturing need only obtain a dealer’s

license.




https://www.atf.gov/file/82791/download
View Quote
But he wants to buy stripped lowers, paint them and resell them. Therefore he will need a FFL, but which one is the question?



 
Link Posted: 7/11/2015 7:58:45 PM EDT
[#4]

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Quoted:



But he wants to buy stripped lowers, paint them and resell them. Therefore he will need a FFL, but which one is the question?

 
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



Quoted:



For example, ATF Ruling 2009-1 (approved January 12, 2009) explained that

performing a cosmetic process or activity, such as camouflaging or engraving, that primarily adds to or

changes the appearance or decoration of a firearm is not manufacturing. Likewise, ATF Ruling 2009-2

(approved January 12, 2009) stated that installing "drop-in” replacement parts in or on existing, fully

assembled firearms does not result in any alteration to the original firearms. Persons engaged in the

business of these activities that do not constitute firearms manufacturing need only obtain a dealer’s

license.




https://www.atf.gov/file/82791/download
But he wants to buy stripped lowers, paint them and resell them. Therefore he will need a FFL, but which one is the question?

 
Class 1...

 
Link Posted: 7/12/2015 12:06:05 AM EDT
[#5]
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Quoted:
Class 1...  
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:

For example, ATF Ruling 2009-1 (approved January 12, 2009) explained that
performing a cosmetic process or activity, such as camouflaging or engraving, that primarily adds to or
changes the appearance or decoration of a firearm is not manufacturing. Likewise, ATF Ruling 2009-2
(approved January 12, 2009) stated that installing "drop-in” replacement parts in or on existing, fully
assembled firearms does not result in any alteration to the original firearms. Persons engaged in the
business of these activities that do not constitute firearms manufacturing need only obtain a dealer’s
license.


https://www.atf.gov/file/82791/download
But he wants to buy stripped lowers, paint them and resell them. Therefore he will need a FFL, but which one is the question?
 
Class 1...  

Type 01....  Class 1 being an NFA importer tax stamp.
Link Posted: 7/14/2015 9:36:29 PM EDT
[#6]
2015-1

In ATF Ruling 2010-10 (approved December 27, 2010), ATF advised that licensed dealer- gunsmiths (type 01) may legally perform certain firearm manufacturing activities if specified conditions were met. Specifically, that ruling held that licensed gunsmiths could conduct such manufacturing activities if the firearms were: (1) not owned, in whole or in part, by the dealer- gunsmith; (2) returned by the dealer-gunsmith to the importer or manufacturer upon completion of the manufacturing processes, and not sold or distributed to any person outside the manufacturing process; and (3) already properly identified / marked by the importer or manufacturer in accordance with Federal law and regulations.



It's always been told to us that if you modify an item currently owned by the FFL to resell its manufacturing. Modifications made to an item off your books (brought in to you) is gunsmithing
Link Posted: 7/15/2015 7:21:25 AM EDT
[#7]
Quoted:
I have a few questions on a FFLs and I was hoping the good folks here could help me.  

I recently got in to cerakoting, and was thinking of opening a small business based around that . . .
View Quote



Proper licensing aside, do you really think there is sufficient demand for cerakoting services in your area to support a business? Have you written a detailed business plan or run numbers on this? How many cerakoting jobs do you anticipate doing each week? I would think it would be a very small business indeed.
Link Posted: 7/16/2015 8:23:23 PM EDT
[#8]
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Quoted:



Proper licensing aside, do you really think there is sufficient demand for cerakoting services in your area to support a business? Have you written a detailed business plan or run numbers on this? How many cerakoting jobs do you anticipate doing each week? I would think it would be a very small business indeed.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
I have a few questions on a FFLs and I was hoping the good folks here could help me.  

I recently got in to cerakoting, and was thinking of opening a small business based around that . . .



Proper licensing aside, do you really think there is sufficient demand for cerakoting services in your area to support a business? Have you written a detailed business plan or run numbers on this? How many cerakoting jobs do you anticipate doing each week? I would think it would be a very small business indeed.


The nearest certified applicator is almost 3 hours from me.  I know through local ranges and facebook groups that there would be interest.  I was also thinking along the lines of buying bulk, painting, then selling the uppers/lowers/rails online.  I know I would need an FFL, but I was not sure which one to get.
Link Posted: 7/16/2015 10:45:26 PM EDT
[#9]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


The nearest certified applicator is almost 3 hours from me.  I know through local ranges and facebook groups that there would be interest.  I was also thinking along the lines of buying bulk, painting, then selling the uppers/lowers/rails online.  I know I would need an FFL, but I was not sure which one to get.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I have a few questions on a FFLs and I was hoping the good folks here could help me.  

I recently got in to cerakoting, and was thinking of opening a small business based around that . . .



Proper licensing aside, do you really think there is sufficient demand for cerakoting services in your area to support a business? Have you written a detailed business plan or run numbers on this? How many cerakoting jobs do you anticipate doing each week? I would think it would be a very small business indeed.


The nearest certified applicator is almost 3 hours from me.  I know through local ranges and facebook groups that there would be interest.  I was also thinking along the lines of buying bulk, painting, then selling the uppers/lowers/rails online.  I know I would need an FFL, but I was not sure which one to get.


So, in other words, you haven't made the effort to write a business plan . . .

https://www.sba.gov/writing-business-plan
Link Posted: 7/17/2015 1:11:01 AM EDT
[#10]
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Quoted:
...I know through local ranges and facebook groups that there would be interest...
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Interest does not equal customers.

As already posted.....you need to write a business plan.
Link Posted: 7/17/2015 10:18:33 AM EDT
[#11]
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I was also thinking along the lines of buying bulk, painting, then selling the uppers/lowers/rails online.  I know I would need an FFL, but I was not sure which one to get.
View Quote

Aside from the business advice, this would require a manufacturing license.  Working on a customer's gun is gunsmithing, which can be done with a dealer's FFL.  Working on your own gun is manufacturing, requiring a manufacturer's FFL.
Link Posted: 7/17/2015 2:05:04 PM EDT
[#12]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

Aside from the business advice, this would require a manufacturing license.  Working on a customer's gun is gunsmithing, which can be done with a dealer's FFL.  Working on your own gun is manufacturing, requiring a manufacturer's FFL.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
I was also thinking along the lines of buying bulk, painting, then selling the uppers/lowers/rails online.  I know I would need an FFL, but I was not sure which one to get.

Aside from the business advice, this would require a manufacturing license.  Working on a customer's gun is gunsmithing, which can be done with a dealer's FFL.  Working on your own gun is manufacturing, requiring a manufacturer's FFL.

The ATF has stated that painting is not a manufacturing process since it doesn't change the underlying composition of the metal in the receiver.

OTOH if the OP wanted to start bluing, parkerizing, or anodizing unfinished receivers for resale then he would need the 07.
Link Posted: 7/18/2015 7:26:15 AM EDT
[#13]
Thanks for the correction.  That's a bizarrely technical distinction that ATF is drawing, but I guess that's nothing new.
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