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Posted: 3/12/2015 2:45:27 PM EDT
When I had my FFLs, the only trace calls I ever got were for firearms that had been recovered somewhere or requested traced by LE.

Under what circumstances would the NTC call tracing a firearm that had not been recovered anywhere, and was still in legit personal or business possession and 100% accounted for?  

The only two things that come to my mind would be someone fat-fingering the serial somewhere in the process of a recovered or requested trace, or maybe an investigation / check into a company or distributor "upstream" from the purchaser and final FFL.

A guess a third option would be a firearm entering the commercial used firearm supply stream and later reported stolen by someone, but that seems hard to believe.

Any thoughts?  The first two are no big deal to the FFL or end-purchaser, but the third one would be a PITA!
Link Posted: 3/12/2015 3:02:26 PM EDT
[#1]
I once had a trace request on a "Kahr MP9".............when I told the ATF lady there is no such model, she said that's how the requesting agency listed the trace request.

How do you know the firearm has not been recovered or in possession of a LEA?
Link Posted: 3/12/2015 4:01:06 PM EDT
[#2]
I had a request come in for an AA Arms AP-9 once.  They gave me the date shipped (about 7 years prior) and S/N but when I looked in my book I had nothing of the sorts but a Styer M9 with the same S/N did come in.  Called them back explained that I had no AA Arms AP-9 fitting their description but a Styer M9.  "I don't care just give me the information." was the reply I got.  Thing was I remember the customer that bought the Styer and he was US Army, stationed same base/time as my brother, ultra excited to get the Styer and no chance he had sold it but OK here it is.  I mean we have all seen the show 48 Hours, time is ticking...

Fast forward 2 months: I get a call from a Police Detective in Wherever, Ut. inquiring about the same gun.  I go thru the same deal again; I did not have the gun you are looking for.  "well if you won't be of any help" was the response I got from him.  At this point I called the supplier and talked with my sales rep.  She could not even remember them selling the AA Arms line but dug thru their records and found that they had sold them for a brief time around when the ATF gave me for a ship date but they did not show any with the same S/N.

Another 2 months or so:  Local ATF Agent Prick calls me.  Again I explain the same thing, tell him that I have tried to tell the last 2 but they would not listen or could not understand that I never had the gun they were looking for.  I explained the difference between the AA Arms being like a TEK-9 and the Styer being more like a Glock but alas they are ALL AK-47s to this agent.  He gives me the hard line that I am trying to cover something up but, 'do you have your purchase invoice, copy of 4473, sales slip?'  I will get them together and call you back. I found pictures of the AA Arms AP-9 and the Styer to go with it all and called him back ~20 minutes later.  This time he was much nicer, 'uh we got it figured out that you did not have this gun we are looking for.  Supplier is going to get a visit.'

My guess is that they shared the same S/N or maybe along the lines a 0 was made an O maybe a 1 made to be an I.
Link Posted: 3/12/2015 4:28:07 PM EDT
[#3]
Quoted:

A guess a third option would be a firearm entering the commercial used firearm supply stream and later reported stolen by someone, but that seems hard to believe.

View Quote


Or a stolen firearm entering that stream. I know in most states, they call in serials on "pawned" or "consignment" guns, but in Nevada, they do not.

I had two guns stolen from me about 7 years ago and had false hope for a few years that some asshole would try to sell them and get caught and I'd get them back.

Alas, I found out that when local shops buy used guns or take them on consignment, they do not do this.  The pawnshops have to, but the gun stores don't.
Link Posted: 3/13/2015 11:57:01 AM EDT
[#4]
Quoted:
Under what circumstances would the NTC call tracing a firearm that had not been recovered anywhere, and was still in legit personal or business possession and 100% accounted for?
View Quote

It wouldn't, all traces must be initiated at the request of LE as part of a criminal investigation.  I have a friend who works over there.  He said that occasionally a judge will try to order a trace as part of a divorce case, especially if the wife claims they were worth $X and the soon-to-be ex sold them for substantially less than $X.  ATF doesn't respond to those.  Also, they don't even have the "show me where all of Mr. Ex's guns went" capability.
Link Posted: 3/13/2015 12:40:56 PM EDT
[#5]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
It wouldn't, all traces must be initiated at the request of LE as part of a criminal investigation.  
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Hence my question, though I think ATF compliance could be the requesting LE agency, could they not?  In that case, they could have gotten the serial "upstream" from a licensee I suppose.

The trace hasn't come to me yet, but it came to the FFL who I 4473'd it through, and he told me about it the next day.  It's for a Glock 17, so it's not like it's a model number they likely mixed up, and a 6-digit serial should be easy to get right.

The pistol is still eyes-on accounted for though, so even though I'm certain it hasn't been recovered somewhere or used in a crime I'm scratching my head about what is going on.
Link Posted: 3/13/2015 2:33:43 PM EDT
[#6]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

Hence my question, though I think ATF compliance could be the requesting LE agency, could they not?  In that case, they could have gotten the serial "upstream" from a licensee I suppose.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
It wouldn't, all traces must be initiated at the request of LE as part of a criminal investigation.  

Hence my question, though I think ATF compliance could be the requesting LE agency, could they not?  In that case, they could have gotten the serial "upstream" from a licensee I suppose.

If they did it's because some FFL's books are so bad that the ATF isn't just pulling his license, he's getting prosecuted.  It takes a lot to get to that point, most who are that bad usually elect to give up their license to avoid prosecution.

A possible alternative I can think of, though there certainly may be others, is that the FFL is deceased, his books were a mess, another FFL is the inventory, and the ATF is helping to determine what, if anything, is missing.
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