User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 11/16/2014 9:21:56 PM EDT
[#1]
Quoted:
I just recieved my FFL and trying to clarify something I've been told. Since I now have this, can I only acquire a firearm from another FFL via transfer to my FFL? I'm retired LEO and want to buy a blue label glock. Can I just fill out a 4473 as a retiree and make a private purchase? Any licensee can always fill out a 4473 to acquire a firearm. If you are a sole proprietor you would also be required to record that purchase in your bound book as an acquisition. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/16/2014 9:27:33 PM EDT
[#2]
What Tom says plus you can buy in any state without NICS, etc. So tuck a license in your wallet, you never know when you will be on vacation and see something you must have.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 11/17/2014 12:32:30 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Any licensee can always fill out a 4473 to acquire a firearm. If you are a sole proprietor you would also be required to record that purchase in your bound book as an acquisition. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I just recieved my FFL and trying to clarify something I've been told. Since I now have this, can I only acquire a firearm from another FFL via transfer to my FFL? I'm retired LEO and want to buy a blue label glock. Can I just fill out a 4473 as a retiree and make a private purchase? Any licensee can always fill out a 4473 to acquire a firearm. If you are a sole proprietor you would also be required to record that purchase in your bound book as an acquisition. I have a similar question, hope you don't mind asking for a little more information. If I am a sole proprietor, every time I buy a firearm (whether it is for my business inventory or personal) it must go in my bound book? And if I am going to my LGS to buy a firearm for myself, I show my FFL and only have to fill out a 4473? |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/17/2014 12:58:31 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If I am a sole proprietor, every time I buy a firearm (whether it is for my business inventory or personal) it must go in my bound book? And if I am going to my LGS to buy a firearm for myself, I show my FFL and only have to fill out a 4473? SP always enters acquisitions in bound book. If you buy at LGS, show FFL and walk out with gun, no NICs, No 4473. No different than if you bought via phone/internet, you are just skipping hiring UPS for delivery and are taking delivery yourself. Not all LGS will do this, and most Big Box stores will not. If you buy at LGS and they make you fill out 4473, no need to show FFL. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/17/2014 1:20:08 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
SP always enters acquisitions in bound book. If you buy at LGS, show FFL and walk out with gun, no NICs, No 4473. No different than if you bought via phone/internet, you are just skipping hiring UPS for delivery and are taking delivery yourself. Not all LGS will do this, and most Big Box stores will not. If you buy at LGS and they make you fill out 4473, no need to show FFL. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
If I am a sole proprietor, every time I buy a firearm (whether it is for my business inventory or personal) it must go in my bound book? And if I am going to my LGS to buy a firearm for myself, I show my FFL and only have to fill out a 4473? SP always enters acquisitions in bound book. If you buy at LGS, show FFL and walk out with gun, no NICs, No 4473. No different than if you bought via phone/internet, you are just skipping hiring UPS for delivery and are taking delivery yourself. Not all LGS will do this, and most Big Box stores will not. If you buy at LGS and they make you fill out 4473, no need to show FFL. Thanks. I was hoping you could clarify something I found in the FEDERAL FIREARMS REGULATIONS REFERENCE GUIDE. This statement is tripping my up a bit. Does this mean when, as a sole proprietor, I buy a firearm for my personal inventory and then want to sell, I must wait a full year from the initial purchase date? "A licensee may sell a firearm from his or her personal collection, subject only to the restrictions on firearm sales by unlicensed persons, provided the firearm was entered into the licensee's bound book and then transferred to the licensee's private collection at least 1 year prior to the sale." |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/17/2014 1:50:38 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thanks. I was hoping you could clarify something I found in the FEDERAL FIREARMS REGULATIONS REFERENCE GUIDE. This statement is tripping my up a bit. Does this mean when, as a sole proprietor, I buy a firearm for my personal inventory and then want to sell, I must wait a full year from the initial purchase date? Yes, and you must keep a "personal" bound book and record the disposition; including buyer's name, address, and DOB. See 478.125a "A licensee may sell a firearm from his or her personal collection, subject only to the restrictions on firearm sales by unlicensed persons, provided the firearm was entered into the licensee's bound book and then transferred to the licensee's private collection at least 1 year prior to the sale." Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
If I am a sole proprietor, every time I buy a firearm (whether it is for my business inventory or personal) it must go in my bound book? And if I am going to my LGS to buy a firearm for myself, I show my FFL and only have to fill out a 4473? SP always enters acquisitions in bound book. If you buy at LGS, show FFL and walk out with gun, no NICs, No 4473. No different than if you bought via phone/internet, you are just skipping hiring UPS for delivery and are taking delivery yourself. Not all LGS will do this, and most Big Box stores will not. If you buy at LGS and they make you fill out 4473, no need to show FFL. Thanks. I was hoping you could clarify something I found in the FEDERAL FIREARMS REGULATIONS REFERENCE GUIDE. This statement is tripping my up a bit. Does this mean when, as a sole proprietor, I buy a firearm for my personal inventory and then want to sell, I must wait a full year from the initial purchase date? Yes, and you must keep a "personal" bound book and record the disposition; including buyer's name, address, and DOB. See 478.125a "A licensee may sell a firearm from his or her personal collection, subject only to the restrictions on firearm sales by unlicensed persons, provided the firearm was entered into the licensee's bound book and then transferred to the licensee's private collection at least 1 year prior to the sale." |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/17/2014 1:57:19 PM EDT
[#7]
if you buy a gun as a sole proprietor, you have to log it in your book. you log it out to your "personal collection". After 1 year, you can log it back into your book and out to your buyer who does not have to fill out a 4473. I have found it to be a hassle at some stores to buy a gun for personal use as an FFL. at cabelas, the paperwork to do a transfer from them was almost as long as the 4473. I guess it should theoretically take less time on black Friday or during the holidays.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 11/17/2014 2:43:42 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
if you buy a gun as a sole proprietor, you have to log it in your book. you log it out to your "personal collection". After 1 year, you can log it back into your book and out to your buyer who does not have to fill out a 4473. I have found it to be a hassle at some stores to buy a gun for personal use as an FFL. at cabelas, the paperwork to do a transfer from them was almost as long as the 4473. I guess it should theoretically take less time on black Friday or during the holidays. You do not put it your regular dealer book after a year, you put it in a personal bound book immediately after removing it from business inventory. You log out the disposition in the personal bound book after you sell it "personally", it is a different format from a regular bound book - see 478.125a for the format. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/17/2014 4:11:20 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I was hoping you could clarify something I found in the FEDERAL FIREARMS REGULATIONS REFERENCE GUIDE. This statement is tripping my up a bit. Does this mean when, as a sole proprietor, I buy a firearm for my personal inventory and then want to sell, I must wait a full year from the initial purchase date? "A licensee may sell a firearm from his or her personal collection, subject only to the restrictions on firearm sales by unlicensed persons, provided the firearm was entered into the licensee's bound book and then transferred to the licensee's private collection at least 1 year prior to the sale." Any gun in my personal collection goes back on my bound book when I want to sell it. I never sell a gun off the books, even in situations where it is legal. Example, I buy a Colt 6920 in 2010, log it out to personal collection. It is now off-premises and I go hunting, shooting whatever for 3 years. I now want to sell it. I put it back in my bound book and sell it via 4473 or to FFL. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/17/2014 4:54:46 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Any gun in my personal collection goes back on my bound book when I want to sell it. I never sell a gun off the books, even in situations where it is legal. Example, I buy a Colt 6920 in 2010, log it out to personal collection. It is now off-premises and I go hunting, shooting whatever for 3 years. I now want to sell it. I put it back in my bound book and sell it via 4473 or to FFL. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I was hoping you could clarify something I found in the FEDERAL FIREARMS REGULATIONS REFERENCE GUIDE. This statement is tripping my up a bit. Does this mean when, as a sole proprietor, I buy a firearm for my personal inventory and then want to sell, I must wait a full year from the initial purchase date? "A licensee may sell a firearm from his or her personal collection, subject only to the restrictions on firearm sales by unlicensed persons, provided the firearm was entered into the licensee's bound book and then transferred to the licensee's private collection at least 1 year prior to the sale." Any gun in my personal collection goes back on my bound book when I want to sell it. I never sell a gun off the books, even in situations where it is legal. Example, I buy a Colt 6920 in 2010, log it out to personal collection. It is now off-premises and I go hunting, shooting whatever for 3 years. I now want to sell it. I put it back in my bound book and sell it via 4473 or to FFL. Another option is to just leave it on the books and use it how you wish. That way you don't have to worry about the disposition. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/17/2014 9:29:37 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yes, and you must keep a "personal" bound book and record the disposition; including buyer's name, address, and DOB. See 478.125a Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yes, and you must keep a "personal" bound book and record the disposition; including buyer's name, address, and DOB. See 478.125a There is no ATF requirement for a licensee to keep a "personal" bound book. 478.125a says nothing of the sort. When a licensee receives a firearm and wants it for his personal collection (and he's a sole proprietor) he logs it into his bound book as an acquisition, then logs it out to "Dogtown Tom personal collection".................there is no need to keep a separate book for personal guns. If after a year I decide to sell/gift/trade that firearm, I log it into my bound book as an acquisition from DogtownTom personal collection and then log it out as a disposition to the buyer/transferee. Quoted:
if you buy a gun as a sole proprietor, you have to log it in your book. you log it out to your "personal collection". After 1 year, you can log it back into your book and out to your buyer who does not have to fill out a 4473....... Not true. At any time you can log the firearm back into your bound book and transfer it via 4473......you do not have to wait a year. If the firearm has been in the licensees personal collection for at least a year, then no 4473 is required, but the buyer/transferee info must be recorded. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/17/2014 9:44:44 PM EDT
[#12]
So why do you need to fill out a 4473 when selling a firearm from the business inventory but not need one when it's your own?
EDIT - I'm dumb. 4473 in this case just transfers ownership from yourself to your business if it's under 1 year. (in this case, I think) |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/17/2014 9:53:06 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So why do you need to fill out a 4473 when selling a firearm from the business inventory but not need one when it's your own? Because ATF wrote the regulations that way. 
A licensee who is a sole proprietor owns both business and personal firearms as an individual........ie. himself. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/18/2014 10:00:02 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
There is no ATF requirement for a licensee to keep a "personal" bound book. 478.125a says nothing of the sort. When a licensee receives a firearm and wants it for his personal collection (and he's a sole proprietor) he logs it into his bound book as an acquisition, then logs it out to "Dogtown Tom personal collection".................there is no need to keep a separate book for personal guns. If after a year I decide to sell/gift/trade that firearm, I log it into my bound book as an acquisition from DogtownTom personal collection and then log it out as a disposition to the buyer/transferee. Not true. At any time you can log the firearm back into your bound book and transfer it via 4473......you do not have to wait a year. If the firearm has been in the licensees personal collection for at least a year, then no 4473 is required, but the buyer/transferee info must be recorded. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Yes, and you must keep a "personal" bound book and record the disposition; including buyer's name, address, and DOB. See 478.125a There is no ATF requirement for a licensee to keep a "personal" bound book. 478.125a says nothing of the sort. When a licensee receives a firearm and wants it for his personal collection (and he's a sole proprietor) he logs it into his bound book as an acquisition, then logs it out to "Dogtown Tom personal collection".................there is no need to keep a separate book for personal guns. If after a year I decide to sell/gift/trade that firearm, I log it into my bound book as an acquisition from DogtownTom personal collection and then log it out as a disposition to the buyer/transferee. Quoted:
if you buy a gun as a sole proprietor, you have to log it in your book. you log it out to your "personal collection". After 1 year, you can log it back into your book and out to your buyer who does not have to fill out a 4473....... Not true. At any time you can log the firearm back into your bound book and transfer it via 4473......you do not have to wait a year. If the firearm has been in the licensees personal collection for at least a year, then no 4473 is required, but the buyer/transferee info must be recorded. Read the March 2006 FFL Newsletter, and tell me what they mean here: Finally, the licensee must record the transfer in his or her disposition records of personal firearms, in the format set forth in the regulations. This means that the licensee must record, from his or her personal collection, specified identifying information about the firearm; the date of the sale or other disposition; and the name, address, and date of birth of the transferee (or, if the transferee is a licensee, the name and business address of the transferee). In addition, the licensee shall cause any unlicensed transferee to be identified in any manner customarily used in commercial transactions (e.g., a driver’s license). |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/18/2014 10:31:23 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Read the March 2006 FFL Newsletter, and tell me what they mean here: Finally, the licensee must record the transfer in his or her disposition records of personal firearms, in the format set forth in the regulations. This means that the licensee must record, from his or her personal collection, specified identifying information about the firearm; the date of the sale or other disposition; and the name, address, and date of birth of the transferee (or, if the transferee is a licensee, the name and business address of the transferee). In addition, the licensee shall cause any unlicensed transferee to be identified in any manner customarily used in commercial transactions (e.g., a driver’s license). Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Yes, and you must keep a "personal" bound book and record the disposition; including buyer's name, address, and DOB. See 478.125a There is no ATF requirement for a licensee to keep a "personal" bound book. 478.125a says nothing of the sort. When a licensee receives a firearm and wants it for his personal collection (and he's a sole proprietor) he logs it into his bound book as an acquisition, then logs it out to "Dogtown Tom personal collection".................there is no need to keep a separate book for personal guns. If after a year I decide to sell/gift/trade that firearm, I log it into my bound book as an acquisition from DogtownTom personal collection and then log it out as a disposition to the buyer/transferee. Quoted:
if you buy a gun as a sole proprietor, you have to log it in your book. you log it out to your "personal collection". After 1 year, you can log it back into your book and out to your buyer who does not have to fill out a 4473....... Not true. At any time you can log the firearm back into your bound book and transfer it via 4473......you do not have to wait a year. If the firearm has been in the licensees personal collection for at least a year, then no 4473 is required, but the buyer/transferee info must be recorded. Read the March 2006 FFL Newsletter, and tell me what they mean here: Finally, the licensee must record the transfer in his or her disposition records of personal firearms, in the format set forth in the regulations. This means that the licensee must record, from his or her personal collection, specified identifying information about the firearm; the date of the sale or other disposition; and the name, address, and date of birth of the transferee (or, if the transferee is a licensee, the name and business address of the transferee). In addition, the licensee shall cause any unlicensed transferee to be identified in any manner customarily used in commercial transactions (e.g., a driver’s license). It means what it says......and exactly as I described above. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/18/2014 2:35:16 PM EDT
[#16]
I have a question for the experts here as well.
I am currently an FFL operating as a single member LLC. I plan to close the shop down in the next 6 months or so. When I close, I plan to transfer all the remaining inventory to myself. Many of the guns will be sold in the future, possibly at gunshows as my personal collection. does anyone know how ATF will look at those future sales? |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/18/2014 3:39:06 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have a question for the experts here as well. I am currently an FFL operating as a single member LLC. I plan to close the shop down in the next 6 months or so. When I close, I plan to transfer all the remaining inventory to myself. Many of the guns will be sold in the future, possibly at gunshows as my personal collection. does anyone know how ATF will look at those future sales? Most likely they'll think you are dealing without a license. Why not keep the FFL and not have to worry? |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/18/2014 4:02:24 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Most likely they'll think you are dealing without a license. Why not keep the FFL and not have to worry? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I have a question for the experts here as well. I am currently an FFL operating as a single member LLC. I plan to close the shop down in the next 6 months or so. When I close, I plan to transfer all the remaining inventory to myself. Many of the guns will be sold in the future, possibly at gunshows as my personal collection. does anyone know how ATF will look at those future sales? Most likely they'll think you are dealing without a license. Why not keep the FFL and not have to worry? Because I am closing the retail operation and will be working out of my home (retiring). My house is in a residential subdivision and not properly zoned for retail. I will pursue moving the license, but likely will not be able. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/18/2014 4:48:31 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have a question for the experts here as well. I am currently an FFL operating as a single member LLC. I plan to close the shop down in the next 6 months or so. When I close, I plan to transfer all the remaining inventory to myself. Many of the guns will be sold in the future, possibly at gunshows as my personal collection. does anyone know how ATF will look at those future sales? Liquidating a collection has never been an issue. But it seems you are keeping them for business (profit) reasons, and not because they are part of a personal collection. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/18/2014 5:40:56 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Because I am closing the retail operation and will be working out of my home (retiring). My house is in a residential subdivision and not properly zoned for retail. I will pursue moving the license, but likely will not be able. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I have a question for the experts here as well. I am currently an FFL operating as a single member LLC. I plan to close the shop down in the next 6 months or so. When I close, I plan to transfer all the remaining inventory to myself. Many of the guns will be sold in the future, possibly at gunshows as my personal collection. does anyone know how ATF will look at those future sales? Most likely they'll think you are dealing without a license. Why not keep the FFL and not have to worry? Because I am closing the retail operation and will be working out of my home (retiring). My house is in a residential subdivision and not properly zoned for retail. I will pursue moving the license, but likely will not be able. Does your zoning allow home based businesses? If so, keep your FFL, sell at gunshows. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/18/2014 5:55:02 PM EDT
[#21]
A home based business is a possibility. I have had a home office there for many years when I was in Engineering. Possibly could do it that way.
Mostly I was curious is anyone had closed their gun business and transferred their inventory as a personal collection and then sold later without being an FFL. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/18/2014 9:00:11 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If I am a sole proprietor, every time I buy a firearm (whether it is for my business inventory or personal) it must go in my bound book? One more reason to form your business as a LLC or S-Corp. :) Jeff |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/18/2014 9:34:43 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
One more reason to form your business as a LLC or S-Corp. :) Jeff Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
If I am a sole proprietor, every time I buy a firearm (whether it is for my business inventory or personal) it must go in my bound book? One more reason to form your business as a LLC or S-Corp. :) Jeff No thanks. LLC or S Corp means you have to 4473 yourself when you want one of your business guns for yourself. If you use your FFL to acquire a firearm it goes into your bound book no matter what type of business structure you have. If you are an LLC or S Corp with 01FFL/SOT it would require Form 4's and $$$$ on all your SBS/SBR/Silencers when you go out of business. A sole proprietor gets to keep his with no extra paperwork. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/8/2014 11:23:17 PM EDT
[#24]
Thanks all great info
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/9/2014 9:10:29 AM EDT
[#25]
Nvm
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/9/2014 8:41:58 PM EDT
[#26]
One of the reasons I did the LLC thing. Really, when you are a sole proprietor you actually need to record any firearm you purchase into your bound book and then out to yourself if you want to keep it as a personal firearm. As an LLC you have two options, purchase for the business or purchase as a private individual. Last year when I was still a SP I made a few purchases at the Tulsa gun show. The firearms were for personal use only but they needed to go through my FFL. Now being an LLC when I go to the shows I can either buy for myself or buy for the store.
|
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
