User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 9/5/2014 9:56:09 AM EDT
[#1]
Keeps as long as they have the SOT. If they change business entitities they have to go though.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/7/2014 9:43:14 AM EDT
[#2]
Quoted:
Just wondering what would happen in the circumstance where: LLC is licensed as an SOT 07/02. Manufactures a post 86 sample machinegun. No longer wishes to be a manufacturer but keeps the SOT. Do the post 86 guns stay with the (now only a) dealer? No Tax? Tax paid? Any clarity is appreciated. I'm confused on the part in bold. An FFL is required before you can remit the SOT (SOT isn't a license, it's an annual tax, you don't apply for it). A licensee can't drop the 07 and keep paying SOT to keep posties. If the manufacturer lets the 07 lapse and re-applies as an 01 (dealer) then the post-samples have to either get cut up or transferred to another SOT. A FFL 07, 08, or 10 can get post-samples from an SOT going out of business without the CLEO letter, an 01 will need the letter. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/7/2014 9:31:10 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Keeps as long as they have the SOT. If they change business entitities they have to go though. Nope. Its an impossible scenerio. Can't keep them once you give up the 07.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/7/2014 11:27:13 PM EDT
[#4]
I'm not an 07/02, but my understanding is:
Post samples: must be sold or destroyed Pre samples: keep Someone can correct me if I'm wrong. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/8/2014 8:36:39 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm confused on the part in bold. An FFL is required before you can remit the SOT (SOT isn't a license, it's an annual tax, you don't apply for it). A licensee can't drop the 07 and keep paying SOT to keep posties. If the manufacturer lets the 07 lapse and re-applies as an 01 (dealer) then the post-samples have to either get cut up or transferred to another SOT. A FFL 07, 08, or 10 can get post-samples from an SOT going out of business without the CLEO letter, an 01 will need the letter. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Just wondering what would happen in the circumstance where: LLC is licensed as an SOT 07/02. Manufactures a post 86 sample machinegun. No longer wishes to be a manufacturer but keeps the SOT. Do the post 86 guns stay with the (now only a) dealer? No Tax? Tax paid? Any clarity is appreciated. I'm confused on the part in bold. An FFL is required before you can remit the SOT (SOT isn't a license, it's an annual tax, you don't apply for it). A licensee can't drop the 07 and keep paying SOT to keep posties. If the manufacturer lets the 07 lapse and re-applies as an 01 (dealer) then the post-samples have to either get cut up or transferred to another SOT. A FFL 07, 08, or 10 can get post-samples from an SOT going out of business without the CLEO letter, an 01 will need the letter. So if there's an 07/SOT who is going out of business, and I am an 01/SOT I can take transfer of their post samples with or without a letter? Following up on that, what's the difference then between my own 07/SOT transferring the post samples to my own 01/SOT versus a different one? |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/8/2014 9:11:44 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Nope. Its an impossible scenerio. Can't keep them once you give up the 07. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Keeps as long as they have the SOT. If they change business entitities they have to go though. Nope. Its an impossible scenerio. Can't keep them once you give up the 07. As long as you have an SOT, you can have a Sample. You do not have to have an FFL-07, an 01, 10 will also suffice. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/8/2014 9:22:18 AM EDT
[#7]
An 01 always needs the demo letter to receive a post sample, even from a 07 going out fo business.
What I wonder about is a case where a sole proprietor has an 07 with SOT and makes a post sample. Then that individual gets an 01 with SOT and gives up the 07'. Since the post sample is already registered to the individual who holds the 01, is a demo letter and transfer since the post sample is already in possession of that person? Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/8/2014 10:21:13 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What I wonder about is a case where a sole proprietor has an 07 with SOT and makes a post sample. Then that individual gets an 01 with SOT and gives up the 07'. Since the post sample is already registered to the individual who holds the 01, is a demo letter and transfer since the post sample is already in possession of that person? Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Same rules apply, must have a demo-letter. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/8/2014 11:27:29 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Same rules apply, must have a demo-letter. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: What I wonder about is a case where a sole proprietor has an 07 with SOT and makes a post sample. Then that individual gets an 01 with SOT and gives up the 07'. Since the post sample is already registered to the individual who holds the 01, is a demo letter and transfer since the post sample is already in possession of that person? Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Same rules apply, must have a demo-letter. I'm my scenario where the 07 gives up his FFL and gets an 01, wouldn't the transfer and transferor be the same person? Suppose, in that same situation, that we were not talking about post-sample guns, just pre-sample and transferable, would a Form 3 still need to be done?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/8/2014 12:24:53 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Suppose, in that same situation, that we were not talking about post-sample guns, just pre-sample and transferable, would a Form 3 still need to be done? No transfer at all is required in that situation, because a sole prop is already in personal possession of the items, and no action is required for the sole prop to retain them whether or not they have a license or SOT. If the FFL 07/C2 belonged to a corp or the like, which transitioned to FFL 01/C3, then still no transfer is required, because the underlying corp entity is still the same, and needs no FFL or SOT to retain the pre samples and transferrables. If a NEW corp was formed with FFL 01/C3, then the old corp would have to F3 the pre-samples and transferrables to the new corp, and a demo letter would be needed for the post-samples. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/27/2014 12:22:24 PM EDT
[#11]
Does an 07 ever need to get a Cleo signature
I know for manufacturing he doesn't. But what if an 07 is buying from another SOT? |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/27/2014 12:35:39 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Does an 07 ever need to get a Cleo signature I know for manufacturing he doesn't. But what if an 07 is buying from another SOT? Yes if they are not SOT. See Instruction 2c on Form 4. Never if 07/02. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/27/2014 3:24:36 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Does an 07 ever need to get a Cleo signature All SOTs are exempt from the CLEO signature requirement. Non-SOT FFLs are not exempt from it. What you may be referring to by mistake is the "Law Letter" requirement for post-sample machineguns, which is different from the CLEO signoff requirement. Acquiring any post-sample machineguns by transfer from another party requires a "Law Letter" (aka "Demo Letter"), unless both parties are 07/C2 manufacturers, and the transferring party has notified ATF they are going out of business. However, an 07/C2 SOT does not need a signature or "Law Letter" to manufacture new post-sample machineguns. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/27/2014 5:32:10 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
All SOTs are exempt from the CLEO signature requirement. Non-SOT FFLs are not exempt from it. What you may be referring to by mistake is the "Law Letter" requirement for post-sample machineguns, which is different from the CLEO signoff requirement. Acquiring any post-sample machineguns by transfer from another party requires a "Law Letter" (aka "Demo Letter"), unless both parties are 07/C2 manufacturers, and the transferring party has notified ATF they are going out of business. However, an 07/C2 SOT does not need a signature or "Law Letter" to manufacture new post-sample machineguns. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Does an 07 ever need to get a Cleo signature All SOTs are exempt from the CLEO signature requirement. Non-SOT FFLs are not exempt from it. What you may be referring to by mistake is the "Law Letter" requirement for post-sample machineguns, which is different from the CLEO signoff requirement. Acquiring any post-sample machineguns by transfer from another party requires a "Law Letter" (aka "Demo Letter"), unless both parties are 07/C2 manufacturers, and the transferring party has notified ATF they are going out of business. However, an 07/C2 SOT does not need a signature or "Law Letter" to manufacture new post-sample machineguns. Ahh my bad. I did mean law letter. Thanks for that. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/27/2014 5:49:24 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Acquiring any post-sample machineguns by transfer from another party requires a "Law Letter" (aka "Demo Letter"), unless both parties are 07/C2 manufacturers, and the transferring party has notified ATF they are going out of business. Does not require both parties to be the same. For example, an 07/02 can acquire PS-86 from an 01/03 going out of business. 479.105(f) |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/28/2014 12:30:29 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Does not require both parties to be the same. For example, an 07/02 can acquire PS-86 from an 01/03 going out of business. 479.105(f) Thanks, noted for future reference. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/28/2014 10:24:54 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Does not require both parties to be the same. For example, an 07/02 can acquire PS-86 from an 01/03 going out of business. 479.105(f) Don't forget us lowly 08/01 can also aquire post-86 from SOTs going out of business without a demo-letter. 
|
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
.jpg)
