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Posted: 8/21/2014 10:16:28 PM EDT
I currently have an new (like March 2014) 01 license under a County Registered d/b/a name under my name as an Sole Proprietor.

My RP wants to get his own 07 for here at this shop just under his name as an Sole Proprietor also with no name, just his..

The store is zoned commercial.. and lease is under his and my name.

Any issues with that?? We can arrange separate safes if thats all thats really a possible issue..

We can't be the 1st to do this either I am sure..



Link Posted: 8/21/2014 11:15:04 PM EDT
[#1]
Quoted:
I currently have an new (like March 2014) 01 license under a County Registered d/b/a name under my name as an Sole Proprietor.

My RP wants to get his own 07 for here at this shop just under his name as an Sole Proprietor also with no name, just his..

The store is zoned commercial.. and lease is under his and my name.

Any issues with that?? We can arrange separate safes if thats all thats really a possible issue..

We can't be the 1st to do this either I am sure..



View Quote


You'll just need to tag your stuff if you don't keep it all segregated.  Long as the property owner agrees to multiple licensees under the one roof.
Link Posted: 9/11/2014 4:16:34 PM EDT
[#2]
I just emailed the local IOI supervisor to ask about my RP getting his own 01 at this location, the 07 with ITAR $$ seems to much..

The RP is listed on the lease with me, and the town has issued a letter saying its a commercial location, and the landlord gave me a letter before saying no issues with a gun shop.

I did note in the email to the IOI that all items will be segregated and secured separate.
Link Posted: 9/11/2014 4:57:58 PM EDT
[#3]
Here is the email and response:

As you have described it, you are correct there is nothing that prevents two licenses being at the same location.


Jay XXXXX

ATF- Area Supervisor

--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Bob
Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2014 2:10 PM
To: ATF Supervisor (Jay)
Subject: Re: Second 01 License


I currently have a valid 01 Dealer license.

My RP would like to apply for 01 Dealer for himself in his name (or DBA name).

He and I are both listed on the commercial business address lease agreement as individuals.

The town has supplied us/me with a letter saying the address is commercially zoned (what I supplied your for the IOI inspection).

Would this be an issue if we have a designated section (or safe) for his firearms separate from my shops current firearms.

He likes to do repairs (gunsmithing) hence the need for his own license as I don’t want him to do things under mine.

(at the end of the day it would be my butt if under my license)

Link Posted: 9/11/2014 7:43:56 PM EDT
[#4]
Why in heavens name would your "RP" need to have his own FFL at the same location?
Why in heavens name do you have an "RP" when you are a sole proprietor?

This gets weirder and weirder.

If he's an RP he can do anything you can do without asking your permission.
If your RP is the moneybags..........why does he need you?
Link Posted: 9/11/2014 8:21:17 PM EDT
[#5]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Why in heavens name would your "RP" need to have his own FFL at the same location?
Why in heavens name do you have an "RP" when you are a sole proprietor?

This gets weirder and weirder.

If he's an RP he can do anything you can do without asking your permission.
If your RP is the moneybags..........why does he need you?
View Quote


I'm special..  

To watch shop when I am out of town, or vacation (just came back from Vacation in PA from seeing my son)..

Like I had mentioned in prior posts.. if things go South for me I am heading back to PA and get a job. He then can have the shop and his own license.

I always have a B plan. I am selling my 10 acres with 'cabin' property for $19600.. this will give me some time to decide if the shops gonna float or fail.
I figure by Feb at the latest I will know..
Link Posted: 9/11/2014 9:13:39 PM EDT
[#6]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


I'm special..  

To watch shop when I am out of town, or vacation (just came back from Vacation in PA from seeing my son)..

Like I had mentioned in prior posts.. if things go South for me I am heading back to PA and get a job. He then can have the shop and his own license.

I always have a B plan. I am selling my 10 acres with 'cabin' property for $19600.. this will give me some time to decide if the shops gonna float or fail.
I figure by Feb at the latest I will know..
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Why in heavens name would your "RP" need to have his own FFL at the same location?
Why in heavens name do you have an "RP" when you are a sole proprietor?

This gets weirder and weirder.

If he's an RP he can do anything you can do without asking your permission.
If your RP is the moneybags..........why does he need you?


I'm special..  

To watch shop when I am out of town, or vacation (just came back from Vacation in PA from seeing my son)..

Like I had mentioned in prior posts.. if things go South for me I am heading back to PA and get a job. He then can have the shop and his own license.

I always have a B plan. I am selling my 10 acres with 'cabin' property for $19600.. this will give me some time to decide if the shops gonna float or fail.
I figure by Feb at the latest I will know..


If you're giving yourself six months to decide if it's going to be a failure, I've got a Plan C for you. Sell your land and cabin, send me the proceeds, turn over the business to your RP, and move to PA. Trust me, Plan C will save you money.

Six months is not nearly enough time to decide if any business is going to be a going concern, especially not a gun shop. You need at least a couple of years of round-the-clock attention to make a gun shop successful. That means no vacations. That means the only time you go "out of town" is if you are going to a gun show in another part of the State. If you're going to do that, one of a two things is going to happen. One, you have enough inventory to stock both the store front and the gun store tables. Two, you only have enough inventory for one,but not the other.

If you elect option one, you'll need your partner/buddy/RP to share duties with you, with one staying home to open the shop and the other going to the gun show. If you choose option two, you don't need to spend as much money, and you could simply hire somebody you trust to watch the counter while you go to the bank or post office, or to man the tables with you at gun shows. In neither of those situations, though, does your buddy even need to be a Responsible Person. You don't have to be an RP just to sign a 4473 or even to sign for boxes full of guns from UPS/FedEx. A Responsible Person is someone who directs the policies and procedures of the business as it pertains to firearms. So, as long as your buddy isn't making the rules, he doesn't need to be an RP.

If you go on vacation and leave your buddy in charge of the store, can he decide, of his own volition, that the shop will no longer accept consignment guns, or will now accept them? Could he create a layaway plan, or rescind the one you currently have? Would it be in his power to decide that you will now accept transfers from individuals, instead of just FFL's, or that you will no longer accept individual transfers? Could he decide that the shop will suddenly begin doing gunsmith work? (You've already stated that it is his desire to do gunsmith work which has led to him getting his own FFL, so I would guess you haven't given him the authority to take in gunsmith work under your FFL.) Could your buddy decide that the shop will no longer use a paper copy of an A&D book, but will instead use a computerized version?

If your answer to those questions is an unequivocal, emphatic, NO, then your buddy has no need of being a Responsible Person on your FFL. Those things are all considered to be under the authority of an RP.
Link Posted: 9/11/2014 9:55:13 PM EDT
[#7]
How is sending you the proceeds from my cabin sale good for me??

The RP is also the major investor for the project.. hence the RP position he was given. (that lets him infleunce the shop.)

We have a population of less than 1500 people and 120 miles from any big town. (this was noted in some of my other posts)

We stock 12 guns total (on avg) and ammo. We have moved 97 guns since March including both transfer and sales total  

This is not going to become a 'growing concern' in my opinion.

The RP gets his own license, he will finally (when I leave) have his lifelong dream of owning a 'gunshop'.

I will leave town with $17-20k and be happy that I jumped from PA/NJ and gave it a 'shot'.. just the wrong town.


Link Posted: 9/11/2014 11:51:25 PM EDT
[#8]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
How is sending you the proceeds from my cabin sale good for me??

The RP is also the major investor for the project.. hence the RP position he was given. (that lets him infleunce the shop.)

We have a population of less than 1500 people and 120 miles from any big town. (this was noted in some of my other posts)

We stock 12 guns total (on avg) and ammo. We have moved 97 guns since March including both transfer and sales total  

This is not going to become a 'growing concern' in my opinion.

The RP gets his own license, he will finally (when I leave) have his lifelong dream of owning a 'gunshop'.

I will leave town with $17-20k and be happy that I jumped from PA/NJ and gave it a 'shot'.. just the wrong town.


View Quote


Giving me the proceeds was a bit of joke, related to the old adage "if you want to make $1,000,000 in the gun business, you better start with $2,000,000." It meant that quitting now and giving away $18,000 would be cheaper than investing that money back into the business and trying to cut bait 6 months from now.

Also, I said "going concern," not "growing concern." If you're not familiar with the basic business term "going concern," you don't need to be involved in running any kind of business, trust me.

Of the 97 guns that have passed through the shop in the last 6 months, how many have been transfers? What do you charge for a transfer? How many have been special orders, which you knew were sold before they were ordered? How many were guns you ordered for normal inventory, speculating that they'd sell? Of the guns currently in inventory, how long have they been there, on average? How long has the oldest one been there? Ninety-seven guns in 6 months is 16 guns a month, or about 4 a week, on average. Unless they're high-end guns, off of which you're making a killing, that's not very many. It'd be ok if you were doing it out of an extra room in your house as a way to make a few extra dollars and allow yourself the ability to get dealer pricing on toys. But, as an investment, it's ridiculously low, more so if you're making less than $100 per gun, on average. I can't imagine you're being profitable enough to pay expenses, earn a wage for yourself, and give your RP/investor a decent Return on Investment. (If you were, he wouldn't be looking to get a separate license to do the gunsmith work you refuse to do as a way to increase profitability.)

I remember kind of reading some of your prior posts. Barely. What little bit I remember was folks in the business telling you that your business model was flawed from Jump Street. I also remember you telling them that they didn't understand your situation, that you were going to be doing things differently, and that you'd be successful. Well, here it is six months later and you're already talking about abandoning a sinking ship as the guy who entrusted you with a bunch of his money tries to bail himself out of a mistake into which you navigated him. The fact is, if your friend/investor had a dream of owning a gun store, he should have gotten the FFL in the first place, and hired you to run it. Your entire process has been wonky since the beginning, but when people tell you that, you act as if they're the assholes. We're not the ones who've convinced some other dude to give us a bunch of money to open a business when we didn't have the first clue about how to run one. We're not the ones who've needed our investors to give us $5,500 to pay our personal debts while we try to eek out a living running a gun shop in a one-horse town in Nowheresville, Texas.
Link Posted: 9/12/2014 4:30:49 AM EDT
[#9]
He likes guns. He offered up the funds. He was working a job at the time and we started talking guns.
He doesn't want a license on his own, I suggested it recently.
He is not worried about return on investment at the moment.

I have child support bi weekly that can't be skipped.

Him getting any license is my idea. He always wanted a gunshop.

Sales were like 23 14 12 5 4 etc.

His recent $5500 was so I could survive the slow rut we were in.

Flawed you bet, but it is what it is.

We got way off topic. I'm done.
Link Posted: 9/12/2014 8:17:46 AM EDT
[#10]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
....I have child support bi weekly that can't be skipped.
....
View Quote


Then get a fucking JOB that actually pays. Depending on your sugar daddy to keep you in burritos and Cheetos is a disservice to your kid.

The members of this forum have offered you great advice, yet you continue to amaze us with more drama.

Your situation is a great example of how not to start a gun business.



Link Posted: 9/12/2014 9:24:07 AM EDT
[#11]
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Quoted:


Then get a fucking JOB that actually pays. Depending on your sugar daddy to keep you in burritos and Cheetos is a disservice to your kid.

The members of this forum have offered you great advice, yet you continue to amaze us with more drama.

Your situation is a great example of how not to start a gun business.



View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
....I have child support bi weekly that can't be skipped.
....


Then get a fucking JOB that actually pays. Depending on your sugar daddy to keep you in burritos and Cheetos is a disservice to your kid.

The members of this forum have offered you great advice, yet you continue to amaze us with more drama.

Your situation is a great example of how not to start a gun business.





Amazing how I ask a simple question about 2 FFL's in one location and I get cussed at.  

No worries.. big hugs all around.

Link Posted: 9/12/2014 9:52:13 AM EDT
[#12]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Amazing how I ask a simple question about 2 FFL's in one location and I get cussed at.  

No worries.. big hugs all around.

View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
....I have child support bi weekly that can't be skipped.
....


Then get a fucking JOB that actually pays. Depending on your sugar daddy to keep you in burritos and Cheetos is a disservice to your kid.

The members of this forum have offered you great advice, yet you continue to amaze us with more drama.

Your situation is a great example of how not to start a gun business.





Amazing how I ask a simple question about 2 FFL's in one location and I get cussed at.  

No worries.. big hugs all around.



Dude, you've asked a lot more than a simple question. How many threads have you started in the last 6-8 months, where you've asked questions about the best way to quit hemorrhaging your Sugar Daddy's money? 7? 8? More? How many times have you been told that you need to write a business plan? How many times have you been told that there are reasons there are no other gun shops within 120 mils of you? Yet, you persist in coming here, asking questions, thinking that your next dramatic episode is going to result in praise or the secret answer to life's problems.

Please, allow me to give you the answer to your dilemma. These are the steps you need to take to have a successful gun shop:

1) Find a better location, preferably one with a sizable customer base.
2) Find a bunch more capital.
3) Find someone with a business degree, firearms knowledge, and retail management experience (preferably in the firearms business) to run it.
4) Find another job for yourself where you can collect a paycheck and take care of your familial obligations without having to rely on the generosity of wealthier people.

The best thing you can do for yourself and your child is get out of the gun business ASAP and go into another field of endeavor, preferably one in which you have experience. I know, it's often hard to be told the truth. But, you've been hearing from people here for months. Maybe it'll start to sink in one of these days.
Link Posted: 9/12/2014 9:55:06 AM EDT
[#13]
I am working my way out dumb a**.

The shop will be closed more than likely by Feb. or transferred to the RP if he wants to get his own FFL.

No worries I won't post any more questions in this sub-forum.
Link Posted: 9/12/2014 11:55:20 AM EDT
[#14]
Link Posted: 9/12/2014 1:41:22 PM EDT
[#15]
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Quoted:
Amazing how I ask a simple question about 2 FFL's in one location and I get cussed at.  

View Quote

My response didn't have anything to do with your question. It was my hope that stronger language would emphasize the absolute absurdity of your dilemma. You have financial obligations that will be impossible to meet based on your current "job".

It's time NOW to fold up shop, stop the bleeding, say thank you to your sugar daddy and start over...........with a viable business plan.

This advice, like all previous will be ignored.
Link Posted: 9/13/2014 9:30:13 AM EDT
[#16]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

My response didn't have anything to do with your question. It was my hope that stronger language would emphasize the absolute absurdity of your dilemma. You have financial obligations that will be impossible to meet based on your current "job".

It's time NOW to fold up shop, stop the bleeding, say thank you to your sugar daddy and start over...........with a viable business plan.

This advice, like all previous will be ignored.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Amazing how I ask a simple question about 2 FFL's in one location and I get cussed at.  


My response didn't have anything to do with your question. It was my hope that stronger language would emphasize the absolute absurdity of your dilemma. You have financial obligations that will be impossible to meet based on your current "job".

It's time NOW to fold up shop, stop the bleeding, say thank you to your sugar daddy and start over...........with a viable business plan.

This advice, like all previous will be ignored.


+ 1.

Best of luck kid.
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