I am currently working on a business plan for resale of ammunition at gun shows and could use some help figuring out numbers. I dont like investing my life savings in an idea before the numbers make sense on paper.   I do not plan to get and FFL at this time and understand that it is not necessary to buy and sell ammo, but it appears many distributors will only deal with FFL holders and permanent store front businesses.   I am getting my state tax ID number and business license.   My goal is to keep it simple and deal in bulk in a few calibers.  Invest my capitol in the ammo and move it  on the weekends at gun shows.  No storefront or FFL means less overhead = better profit, lower prices, quicker inventory turn.  Not to mention keeping my full time employment on the week days.  

I called several internet ammo sites, natchez, ammo guy, lucky gunner ect and was given discounts of 3-5 % below what is listed on their website. Each place i price checked was for 30k rounds of 5.56 PMC or Wolf Gold.  None asked for verification of business despite me explaining my purpose for the inquiry.  Are these prices the best I can do?  That is a very slim margin to work with.  What distributors should I be dealing with or where do I find out about them? I can invest in larger quantities if needed, but i thought it was reasonable to plan off.    

Any help with this would be greatly appreciated.  I have had a tough time finding answers when searching.  Everyone seems to keep a very stiff lip about profit margins and who they deal with.  If you prefer to PM that would be fine.  I would greatly appreciate any help trying to get this started.

thanks

 

True discounts start at the pallet to multiple pallet purchase level.  100k rounds give or take 20k rounds per pallet, depending on caliber and not counting 22lr, and you have to go direct to at least distributors if not wholesalers to get in on that level of pricing.

The level you're currently exploring, you're lucky to be offered a few percent, and maybe saving on shipping by getting semi-large orders sent truck freight instead of UPS or DHL or FedEx Ground.

True discounts start at the pallet to multiple pallet purchase level.  100k rounds give or take 20k rounds per pallet, depending on caliber and not counting 22lr, and you have to go direct to at least distributors if not wholesalers to get in on that level of pricing.

This is about the level of detail that I found looking around on google.  What distributors or wholesalers will I need to deal with and will they deal with me without an FFL?  I did ask all the places I called if I purchases pallets would there be additional discounts.  I was told no by all of them.  

You won't get significant discounts until you're buying from people you aren't competing with by selling direct to individuals.  There's no incentive for anyone who already sells direct to customers to put you into business in competition with them, so AIM will sell you a pallet, as long as you're paying near full price for it - because if you don't buy it, they'll sell it to the next ten or thirty or fifty customers quickly and for full price anyway.

Given how tight the ammo market is right now, it's unlikely you will be able to get in with any of the actual wholesalers or distributors at all - their stuff is allocated to their big internet retailers, chains, and large volume individual stores.  Maybe a million dollar order would get you into bed with some actual wholesalers, but I doubt much less would do it.

If you want to start off small, I think your only chance will be to retail for some of the small to mid-volume reloading/loading companies, if they're interested in having someone resell for them and aren't also already sold out or allocated.  

I've been an FFL and small volume dealer for over a decade, and have never gotten a better price on ammo than anyone else with internet access could swing, buying in that small bulk discount region, saving on shipping by getting large truck shipments when I could, and waiting for the best prices I could find in order to stack it deep at the best price I could.

I don't know for sure but I find it hard to believe you are going to get much of any reasonable price  rate from most wholesalers or anybody else without a FFL


To state the obvious , ammo is fucking heavy !  Have you really thought through the work involved in humping it around?


I used to help out a friend who did rifles, pistols , shotguns and holsters at gun shows along with his store front gun shop . Loading , unloading ,
fighting with all the other dealers because the venue doesn't really have decent loading docks and keeping people from stealing your stuff gets to be a unbelievable pile of work. The further away the show is the worse it gets

Most shows have to be set up on Friday and unless you have a place to park/store a truck or trailer full of ammo you are going to be working Sunday night and part of Monday.


Hate to be a gloomy Gus but like many other business deals , Gun shows are not as easy as they seem.
Availability of ammo to sell could be a real stinker to.


I might sagest you show up at a gun show venue and offer to work for some other dealers and get a better  feel for the whole gun show thing from the inside.

Good luck , we need more decent dealers

NH Sport.  Dont get me wrong.  I never typed the word easy.  There is no such thing in business and that is not how I am interpreting gun shows.  While I have not worked a gun show, I am no novice to planning an operation and the logistics to support it.  Right now, I am in the planning stages and having a very difficult time coming up with any leads.  

Circuits:  Thanks for the logical explanation of why retailers will not give me a discount.  Yeah, it makes sense.  The two distributors that I did find are Jerry's sport Center and Accu Sport and they require brick and mortar stores.

The continued answer that I have come back with is "you cant".  Pretty aggravating considering that every business has to find a start somewhere.

The answer isn't "you can't".  The answer is "you can't profitably with your business plan".

I know dealers on "shooting range programs" with distributors. They can sometimes get ammo when other dealers can't but the price isn't great. It sure as hell isn't something you can keep the doors open with.

Like others have already said, if you expect to be profitable in the ammo game, you're probably going to have to make orders by the flatbed truckload.

Making money selling ammo is not a can't. It's more like you wont. Meaning there is no real money to be made by selling just ammo in the amounts that you are talking about.

There are a few things going on that you should be aware of.
1. The ammo market is very volatile. You could spend all your money on 1 large purchase and the price could literally drop out the next day. Then you are stuck with ammo that you over paid for and can not move at the price point you are selling it for. There are many factors at play here. You have no control over these factors. How would you like to be one of the importers that is now stuck with 5.45x39 ammo that you paid for and can not bring into the Country. They may very well have lost more money than we can even imagine.
2. Shipping rates for ammo are very expensive. This is due to the weight involved. You need to get it shipped freight to save any money. If you do not have a loading dock to unload at. You will be paying for a trailer with a lift gate. That is around another $200 on top of the shipping price.
3. To get any good prices you will be going to large Distributors or right to the manufactures. They probably will not deal with you unless you have a FFL. So you would need to get a State Sales Tax ID, EIN number and the FFL to do business with them. That first order will need to be very large to even get in the door. Yes you will be charging tax for said ammo at the time of sale.
4. Another thing you need to consider is what it will cost you to set up shop at a gun show. Travel time and costs, fee's for the show, food while at the show and over night stay if you are to far away from home. Most shows you go to will be far enough away that you will need to get a room for the whole weekend.

All of the above needs to be factored into what you plan to sell the ammo for. So that case of ammo you got for $400. You will need to add shipping per case price. Travel expense to and from shows, plus entry fee's. All Local, State and Fed license fee's. Also don't forget all the other odds and in's of doing business. Also that all important Sales Tax. Then you can figure out what that $400 case of ammo needs to sell for.  This is why you keep hearing "you can't". You have now priced yourself out of the game at the gun show.

I hope this helps you.

You can get dealer accounts with a good number of distributors without an FFL.  We sold ammo and accessories for ~1.5 years before getting an FFL.  But the difference was we were an actual store front that was open seven days a week so it was a little easier.  My suggestion is to overwhelm the distributors with quality info when contacting them about an account.  Even if they do not ask for it send them a clear copy of everything - local business license, articles of incorporation, state level entity registration, sales tax exemption certificate (in GA this is both the registration and a form you complete with their info on it), etc.  I would also recommend you register a domain name complete with a website and email plus setup a Facebook page for your company.  This makes you look legitimate and many dealer applications ask for your website URL.  Some distributors will tell you to pound sand (after three years in business, three store locations, and ~$1M annual revenue Acu Sport will still not return my emails, voice mails, messages left with receptionists, or completed website contact form).  However others like RSR were happy to give me an account without an FFL.  I would also recommend you get an FFL if you can.  It is not that hard or costly.  But lastly I will echo what others have said - the ammo selling business sucks hard right now and it especially sucks if you are just starting out right now.

We're a range, on the range program, and we can't get all the ammo we need.  You're probably SOL approaching the distributors.  They don't need anymore ammo customers.  They can't even supply the ones they have. Hell, they can't even keep up on the show orders from Jan/Feb.