Trying to get my FFL and ran into a possible issue with local zoning. On the app it says no retail sales. I didnt want to do a lot of FTF sales but I would like to be able to make a buck or two on good deals I can easily sell locally. Is there any way where this is not "technically" retail sales? If there is no way around it would I still be able to get my FFL if I did internet only sales? Thanks in advance for the info. I copied the specific rule below as well as provided a link to the full document.

Redmond Development Code, Article I Zoning Standards, Section 8.0345 reads as follows:
HOME OCCUPATION. When permitted as an accessory use the following limitations will be
conditions:

7. There shall be no retail sales from the premises


http://doc.ci.redmond.or.us/Community_Development/Planning_Applications/Home_Occ.pdf

Do all retail sales a gun show.

But BATFE will  not issue an FFL for gun show sales only, so from your home you need to do wholesale sales, gunsmithing, transfers (technically not a sale but foot traffic to the door might be what they mean), etc.

Remember, you can only conduct business at two locations:
1. Your licensed premises.
2. At a gun show/special event.

You can't meet someone in the WalMart parking lot for example.

the atf wont issue your ffl without the zoning saying you can do sales at your licensed premises. they dont care if you wont do ales or not, just have to be allowed to by zoning.

Will they issue if it is an "internet only" business?

You must have a location from which it is legal to conduct any aspect of your business.  If you then choose only to do internet sales, that's fine with the ATF.

If your city or landlord or HOA says you cannot do any face to face business from that location, a rejection from the ATF is likely.

Here in my county, I know of a few FFLs that were approved by zoning for selling firearms.  The county specifically forbids walk up customers, signs, etc. ATF still approved them.

How they made that happen is what I need to know. I need to be able to tell the City I will not be doing "residential sales" but also getting across to the ATF that it is not a deal breaker since I will be doing transfers and internet sales.

there HAS to be more to that story. the atf is very clear, if you cant do transfers at your premises NO license. there is no exceptions, no "this is for internet only" etc etc. if people in your county got a license then there is more to it. my house is not zoned commercially. i tried to get a zoning variance and the boards decision was split (because i didnt do any backdoor money) and i got denied. there ARE a couple home based dealers in my area but the town told me NO.

as far as the atf is concerned they dont care. either its ok to do business at the address listed or it aint.

i would say you need to check with the town/county and find out about the FFLs you mentioned or what i would do is start with talking to the actual FFLs in question. unless they are D-bags they will talk to you. i dont have a problem with talking with other FFLs. i dont look at it as competition, its networking.

I would provide a transfer service. That would not technically be "retail sales" since I will do all of my personal selling online..... right?

Here in our county, walk up business is not allowed, but folks coming by "by appointment" is allowed.  I had a home based business back in the late 90s in this same county.  No sign or walk up traffic allowed, but appointments were ok.  The two FFLs I know both live close to me and they had no problem getting the FFL with this in mind.

Doing "transfers at your premises" is also accomplished by having inventory and selling online.  You book the guns in and out, shipping them to the purchaser's FFL.
You could be running a business as an FFL without anyone ever walking in the door.

No one is denying that that is well within the scope of an FFL business.  It's just that in the past, in my area, certainly, ATF would not issue you a license unless it WAS ok to post a sign and have walk up customers and the whole shebang.  You can have an FFL and choose not to do any in-person business, but ATF would not issue you a license unless it was lawful for you to do it that way, should you ever decide to.

ATF would not issue me my FFL 07 until the city said it was fine for me to run a light manufacturing business out of my R1-zoned home IN WRITING.  The land use board guys were quite understanding, and sent the written permission to the ATF to placate them, while telling me privately to keep my activities in character with the neighborhood and a home business or they'd review and pull my permit at a later time.

So it's gonna depend on how much of a hardass your local IOI representative is; and how decent and accommodating your local authorities will be...

 
Unless the signage is a local requirement that's outside the scope of ATF authority. Posting a sign is not, and never has been required by ATF. Neither has there been a requirement to have "walk up customers".

The only ATF requirement is that you be able to legally conduct business at the licensed premises under your city, county and state laws.

Any ATF IOI that's adds his own requirements needs to be reported to his supervisor.

To be frank...dump the idea of doing this from your home.

Find a small office in a commercial or retail space you can lease for $200-$300/month and set up shop there.  Check with friends or family...they might a "office/storage" space that would be perfect for your situation.  Zoning is a pain in the ass so you need to figure out a work around!

I'm going to have to go with this.

Thanks for helping me kick this around. There are 2 "residential" FFL's close to me and in the same zoning area that I am going to talk to. Hopefully they are friendly enough to let me know how they "complied" with the zoning regs. I'll keep chipping away at it and see what pans out. Not sure if it would be worth renting office space as I have a full time job I dont plan on quitting.

Full time career here as well but for the last 6 years I have been leasing a small office from a close family friend.  This office is my premise location and satisfies local zoning and the ATF.  My "part-time" gun business more than covers my overhead ($200/Month).  It's also quite a bit safer...I really did not want to expose my family or my residence to total strangers coming to pick up guns.  Another benefit of the "office" was getting signed up with distributors...some won't work with you since you are "home" based.   Anyway, good luck!

This seems like a great idea.  I'm considering looking around my area for a nice inexpensive space, too.

a small retail space is an interesting concept.  What if a bunch of home based FFLs went together and set up one space?  the big trend in office leasing is to share space.  would it work to have a space with a receptionist to sign for deliveries and then do transfers by appointment at the location?  Would the ATF be okay with several ffls sharing a common premises?

It would be a massive clusterfuck.

Deliveries & Receiving
What happens when USPS leaves a box on the front step on a Saturday? (and another dealer picks it up or worse)
What happens when the shipper is an idiot and doesn't know how to address a package? I have at least two boxes a day arrive addressed to:
Customer Bob (nothing to indicate its for me or my business)
My street address
Plano, TX
If several dealers share an identical address......which FFL gets the gun?

Records
If this is the licensed premises, it is where the records of acquisition and disposition are to be kept. Does each dealer get his own file cabinet?

Inventory/Storage
Where ya gonna store those guns? Hopefully each dealer brings in his own safe.........that shouldn't take up too much room.

Scheduling of transfers
Does each dealer get one night a week? Or is it gonna be a battle royal when each dealer has five transfers and every customer wants to pick up at 5pm on the same day?.............and you have a 20x20 shared space.



I think ATF would be rolling on the floor laughing at this idea.

You are making what the OP said out to be some impossible undertaking.
I knew a Class 3 that shared a tiny basement area with another Class 3 for years and never an issue.

Each FFL can have any incoming inventory deliveries shipped to another location and only bring over the item to be transferred at the time of an appt.

You act like it takes some huge amount of space to store bound books in an one office. Should I measure a 5 drawer filing cabinet or two 5 draws next to each other?

a 20x20 space is 400 square feet and depending on fire code for isles widths you could easily jam in 10 (30 was a typo)desks or cubicles and still have room for a reception desk etc.  

As long as zoning allowed it I could not see how or why ATF could deny it.

Now from a business standpoint if you all went in on a lease and someone bailed/went out of business that's when it gets messy and than costs to the remaining parties would most likely go up. So many potential pitfalls with shared space. I would love to see the expression on the LL's face when you said there are several of us who want to lease space so we can share it so we can transfer guns.

Here is an update for you.  The ATF cannot require you to do more than internet sales only.  I told the IOI that I was not going to do ANY face to face sales at my home, just sell online.  I also told her that my county already provided an affidavit allowing me to conduct internet sales of firearms.  I also told her during the interview that I told the county I MIGHT do some transfers out of the house and that the county told me "if you do, and a neighbor complains about foot traffic, we will cite you."  I was just approved and will receive my license within a few weeks.