 RenegadeX 
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Joined: Feb 2002  TX, USA
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Posted: 5/5/2012 11:36:51 PM
THE IMAGE ABOVE IS A PAID ADVERTISEMENT § 478.96 Out-of-State and mail order sales. (a) The provisions of this section shall apply when a firearm is purchased by or delivered to a person not otherwise prohibited by the Act from purchasing or receiving it. (b) A licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, or licensed dealer may sell a firearm that is not subject to the provisions of § 478.102(a) to a nonlicensee who does not appear in person at the licensee's business premises if the nonlicensee is a resident of the same State in which the licensee's business premises are located, and the nonlicensee furnishes to the licensee the firearms transaction record, Form 4473, required by § 478.424. The nonlicensee shall attach to such record a true copy of any permit or other information required pursuant to any statute of the State and published ordinance applicable to the locality in which he resides. The licensee shall prior to shipment or delivery of the firearm, forward by registered or certified mail (return receipt requested) a copy of the record, Form 4473, to the chief law enforcement officer named on such record, and delay shipment or delivery of the firearm for a period of at least 7 days following receipt by the licensee of the return receipt evidencing delivery of the copy of the record to such chief law enforcement officer, or the return of the copy of the record to him due to the refusal of such chief law enforcement officer to accept same in accordance with U.S. Postal Service regulations. The original Form 4473, and evidence of receipt or rejection of delivery of the copy of the Form 4473 sent to the chief law enforcement officer shall be retained by the licensee as a part of the records required of him to be kept under the provisions of subpart H of this part. |
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gerfungerpoken
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Joined: Dec 2007 MO, USA
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Posted: 5/5/2012 11:45:15 PM
Originally Posted By RenegadeX:
Any ever do this? It is limited mostly to NFA since they are one of the few firearms not subject to NICS (478.102a). But since CLEO is not on a 4473, how do you know which CLEO to send a copy of the 4473 to? § 478.96 Out-of-State and mail order sales. (a) The provisions of this section shall apply when a firearm is purchased by or delivered to a person not otherwise prohibited by the Act from purchasing or receiving it. (b) A licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, or licensed dealer may sell a firearm that is not subject to the provisions of § 478.102(a) to a nonlicensee who does not appear in person at the licensee's business premises if the nonlicensee is a resident of the same State in which the licensee's business premises are located, and the nonlicensee furnishes to the licensee the firearms transaction record, Form 4473, required by § 478.424. The nonlicensee shall attach to such record a true copy of any permit or other information required pursuant to any statute of the State and published ordinance applicable to the locality in which he resides. The licensee shall prior to shipment or delivery of the firearm, forward by registered or certified mail (return receipt requested) a copy of the record, Form 4473, to the chief law enforcement officer named on such record, and delay shipment or delivery of the firearm for a period of at least 7 days following receipt by the licensee of the return receipt evidencing delivery of the copy of the record to such chief law enforcement officer, or the return of the copy of the record to him due to the refusal of such chief law enforcement officer to accept same in accordance with U.S. Postal Service regulations. The original Form 4473, and evidence of receipt or rejection of delivery of the copy of the Form 4473 sent to the chief law enforcement officer shall be retained by the licensee as a part of the records required of him to be kept under the provisions of subpart H of this part. Every time I've purchased NFA weapons, even with the form 4 approval I still had to fill out a 4473 and the dealer still had to call in the NICS check. |
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Posted: 5/5/2012 11:47:04 PM
[Last Edit: 5/5/2012 11:47:21 PM by RenegadeX]
Originally Posted By gerfungerpoken: Every time I've purchased NFA weapons, even with the form 4 approval I still had to fill out a 4473 and the dealer still had to call in the NICS check. So we will put you down in the "never did this column". Thanks, but I think we have plenty of those already.  |
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Circuits
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Joined: Jan 2001 CO, USA
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Posted: 5/6/2012 12:21:39 AM
Originally Posted By RenegadeX:
Any ever do this? It is limited mostly to NFA since they are one of the few firearms not subject to NICS (478.102a). But since CLEO is not on a 4473, how do you know which CLEO to send a copy of the 4473 to? Check a map, to determine their city or county. Look up the proper department online or in the phone book. |
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Posted: 5/6/2012 8:50:41 PM
Originally Posted By Circuits: Check a map, to determine their city or county. Look up the proper department online or in the phone book. I was more interested in this specific requirement: a copy of the record, Form 4473, to the chief law enforcement officer named on such record as there is no CLEO named on the 4473. If someone followed your advice, for my TX/DL, they would send the 4473 to a CLEO whose jurisdiction does not cover me. |
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Circuits
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Joined: Jan 2001 CO, USA
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Posted: 5/6/2012 11:06:27 PM
There used to be two parts to the 4473 - the one everyone is familiar with, which used to be called "Firearms Over The Counter Transaction Record, part 1", and a second part used in completing non-premises sales called part 2. Maybe the CLEO field(s) were on part 2?
I don't know if the part1 part2 division still exists any longer. |
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Posted: 5/6/2012 11:25:15 PM
[Last Edit: 5/6/2012 11:26:58 PM by RenegadeX]
Originally Posted By Circuits: There used to be two parts to the 4473 - the one everyone is familiar with, which used to be called "Firearms Over The Counter Transaction Record, part 1", and a second part used in completing non-premises sales called part 2. Maybe the CLEO field(s) were on part 2? I don't know if the part1 part2 division still exists any longer. I think that is it. I notice 478.424 which is the reference, does not exist AFAIK. It seems: ATF F 4473 Pt. II (5300.9) — Firearms Transaction Record Non-Over-The-Counter (can not be posted, must be ordered from the Distribution Center) Is probably the 4473 you are supposed to use, not ATF F 4473 Pt. I (5300.9) — Firearms Transaction Record Over-The-Counter. |
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SiVisPacem
Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum
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Joined: Apr 2010  LBY
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Posted: 5/7/2012 1:51:46 AM
Originally Posted By gerfungerpoken:
Originally Posted By RenegadeX:
Any ever do this? It is limited mostly to NFA since they are one of the few firearms not subject to NICS (478.102a). But since CLEO is not on a 4473, how do you know which CLEO to send a copy of the 4473 to? § 478.96 Out-of-State and mail order sales. (a) The provisions of this section shall apply when a firearm is purchased by or delivered to a person not otherwise prohibited by the Act from purchasing or receiving it. (b) A licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, or licensed dealer may sell a firearm that is not subject to the provisions of § 478.102(a) to a nonlicensee who does not appear in person at the licensee's business premises if the nonlicensee is a resident of the same State in which the licensee's business premises are located, and the nonlicensee furnishes to the licensee the firearms transaction record, Form 4473, required by § 478.424. The nonlicensee shall attach to such record a true copy of any permit or other information required pursuant to any statute of the State and published ordinance applicable to the locality in which he resides. The licensee shall prior to shipment or delivery of the firearm, forward by registered or certified mail (return receipt requested) a copy of the record, Form 4473, to the chief law enforcement officer named on such record, and delay shipment or delivery of the firearm for a period of at least 7 days following receipt by the licensee of the return receipt evidencing delivery of the copy of the record to such chief law enforcement officer, or the return of the copy of the record to him due to the refusal of such chief law enforcement officer to accept same in accordance with U.S. Postal Service regulations. The original Form 4473, and evidence of receipt or rejection of delivery of the copy of the Form 4473 sent to the chief law enforcement officer shall be retained by the licensee as a part of the records required of him to be kept under the provisions of subpart H of this part. Every time I've purchased NFA weapons, even with the form 4 approval I still had to fill out a 4473 and the dealer still had to call in the NICS check. If you're doing individual transfers, as opposed to corporate / trust transfers, your dealer is doing it wrong. Yes, the 4473 is required. However, there is no requirement to do a NICS check if the transfer involves only NFA Title II weapons (and the 4473 says this). Your dealer needs further education on how to do his job. |
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Posted: 5/7/2012 12:00:24 PM
Originally Posted By SiVisPacem:
Originally Posted By gerfungerpoken:
Originally Posted By RenegadeX:
Any ever do this? It is limited mostly to NFA since they are one of the few firearms not subject to NICS (478.102a). But since CLEO is not on a 4473, how do you know which CLEO to send a copy of the 4473 to? § 478.96 Out-of-State and mail order sales. (a) The provisions of this section shall apply when a firearm is purchased by or delivered to a person not otherwise prohibited by the Act from purchasing or receiving it. (b) A licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, or licensed dealer may sell a firearm that is not subject to the provisions of § 478.102(a) to a nonlicensee who does not appear in person at the licensee's business premises if the nonlicensee is a resident of the same State in which the licensee's business premises are located, and the nonlicensee furnishes to the licensee the firearms transaction record, Form 4473, required by § 478.424. The nonlicensee shall attach to such record a true copy of any permit or other information required pursuant to any statute of the State and published ordinance applicable to the locality in which he resides. The licensee shall prior to shipment or delivery of the firearm, forward by registered or certified mail (return receipt requested) a copy of the record, Form 4473, to the chief law enforcement officer named on such record, and delay shipment or delivery of the firearm for a period of at least 7 days following receipt by the licensee of the return receipt evidencing delivery of the copy of the record to such chief law enforcement officer, or the return of the copy of the record to him due to the refusal of such chief law enforcement officer to accept same in accordance with U.S. Postal Service regulations. The original Form 4473, and evidence of receipt or rejection of delivery of the copy of the Form 4473 sent to the chief law enforcement officer shall be retained by the licensee as a part of the records required of him to be kept under the provisions of subpart H of this part. Every time I've purchased NFA weapons, even with the form 4 approval I still had to fill out a 4473 and the dealer still had to call in the NICS check. If you're doing individual transfers, as opposed to corporate / trust transfers, your dealer is doing it wrong. Yes, the 4473 is required. However, there is no requirement to do a NICS check if the transfer involves only NFA Title II weapons (and the 4473 says this). Your dealer needs further education on how to do his job. Many states still require a background check even if the item is an NFA firearm (PA does this also). |
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Posted: 8/17/2012 9:25:41 PM
Originally Posted By RenegadeX:
Any ever do this? It is limited mostly to NFA since they are one of the few firearms not subject to NICS (478.102a). But since CLEO is not on a 4473, how do you know which CLEO to send a copy of the 4473 to? § 478.96 Out-of-State and mail order sales. (a) The provisions of this section shall apply when a firearm is purchased by or delivered to a person not otherwise prohibited by the Act from purchasing or receiving it. (b) A licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, or licensed dealer may sell a firearm that is not subject to the provisions of § 478.102(a) to a nonlicensee who does not appear in person at the licensee's business premises if the nonlicensee is a resident of the same State in which the licensee's business premises are located, and the nonlicensee furnishes to the licensee the firearms transaction record, Form 4473, required by § 478.424. The nonlicensee shall attach to such record a true copy of any permit or other information required pursuant to any statute of the State and published ordinance applicable to the locality in which he resides. The licensee shall prior to shipment or delivery of the firearm, forward by registered or certified mail (return receipt requested) a copy of the record, Form 4473, to the chief law enforcement officer named on such record, and delay shipment or delivery of the firearm for a period of at least 7 days following receipt by the licensee of the return receipt evidencing delivery of the copy of the record to such chief law enforcement officer, or the return of the copy of the record to him due to the refusal of such chief law enforcement officer to accept same in accordance with U.S. Postal Service regulations. The original Form 4473, and evidence of receipt or rejection of delivery of the copy of the Form 4473 sent to the chief law enforcement officer shall be retained by the licensee as a part of the records required of him to be kept under the provisions of subpart H of this part. Renegade - Did you get anywhere with this? When I called the ATF, they didnt know anything about it. I was able to track down the 4473 pt. II form, but its a 2005 version and the ATF distribution center doesnt have an option to request pt ii forms. |
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