Finally in a position to where I can afford an AUG.  It's a gun I've wanted since I was a kid (Thanks Die Hard), and they're available locally for a bit under 2,000.  HOwever there are a few RDBs locally too that I've seen, and they are almost a grand cheaper.  That could buy me a significant amount of ammo so that's why I'm torn.  

Thoughts?  Who owns both and which do you prefer?

How about a new AUG for $1650?

http://www.gunbroker.com/item/659609801

Ain't mine, don't know the seller, etc...

Kel-Tec's habit of using their customers for beta testing and then abandoning older products while they work on the new hotness leave me voting against them.


AJ

AUG all day. Maybe call Pete if your prices locally are that high (though I have no idea what Pete's prices are now as it has been a few years since my last AUG). I've never had a malfunction with any of my AUGs beyond 1 round of Wolf in the very first 5 shots I took with one of them. I have shot several thousand rounds through each of them at this point.

I don't own an RDB. There is a thread a few spots down by a member who does and his review isn't exactly glowing (http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_43/478375_Third-RDB-range-trip---return-to-fail--Stick-a-fork-in-it--she-s-done-.html) There is a reason Keltecs are cheap. Having shot a number of their firearms over the years I do not believe that they are a terrible manufacture but they certainly aren't on the upper tier quality-wise. I've got a P3AT that functions well - but that's after I filed down all the burrs that were in the slide. Why bother with so-so quality when you can save and buy the best.

oh man don't make a huge mistake.... Aug only on that one...

Proven military rifle or keltec junk?

Aug and don't look back

How is this even a question.....AUG. 

The RDB is a nice idea, but it doesn't have any of the long proven military track record that the AUG has.  The AUG is proven, time and time again, to be a high quality rifle.  The RDB is a toy in comparison.  And it's Kel-tec.  It could be around for 10 years, it could have production ended tomorrow.  

AUG all the way. Don't waste your $ on the Keltec. The AUG is a better investment all the way around.

One is a combat proven weapon carried by many elite military units, one is a range toy.

OP, really?

Yes really.  I have no real experience with either one with only firing a few rounds out of a RDB and only handling the AUG.  That's why I'm on forums like this.  For the vast access of personal experience and knowledge on various subjects that I do not have.  



Thanks guys one of my buddies found out I was looking for one and is hooking me up with one of his FFL friends who can scoop me one up for 1600.  I appreciate the input.

If you were flipping a coin over a tavor and aug I would understand buy not a keltec...

If it was me I would buy the kel-tec. Honestly if you are buying a bullpup I would expect it is because you already have a few guns.  Track record shouldn't really factor in if this isn't your primary defensive weapon.  Also I never had a hard on for the AUG.

However, you do, so you should buy the AUG.  Fulfill that dream man.  You did the right thing and saved up for it now buy it.  You'll only have regret if you don't do it.

The Keltec is a POS. Tavor or AUG.

The fact that the Keltec is a POS aside, do you really think you would be satisfied if you, as you said, have been lusting after an AUG all your life?

This is a decision you should make with your heart; if you've wanted it that long and worked so hard to save for it, why abandon it when you're finally in the right position?

Karl.  

Remember Karl.  

Now YOU can BE Karl.

AUG.

Best argument yet.



I'll just avoid chains hanging from roofs.

This.

I like my Tavor.  I have long wanted a Tavor, now I own it.  I occasionally toy with buying an AUG NATO, but good gosh they're pricy.

Buy what you want, and you won't regret it.  Buy a substitute, and you'll always remember the price difference between it and what you really wanted.

If you can find an RDB for $1k  , I would go with the RDB. I speak as an RDB and AUG owner. I have over 2 k rounds through my RDB and it has been completely reliable. The RDB is also significantly lighter, 100% ambidextrous  & otb it comes with an appreciably better trigger. The RDB is also FAR and AWAY a superior suppressor host. So you have to decide on whether better QC and military service[because thats ALL the AUG offers over the RDB) are worth $1k more...despite the all around better ergonomics of the RDB.

As far as this "range toy" stuff goes....any gun on a range is a range toy......any gun used/intended  to defend yourself with is a weapon. If a war breaks out where I live ...I'll won't be grabbing the AUG or the RDB....but as home defense/truck gun /range play or camping, the RDB has my full confidence.

I just bought an RDB  ( For $850.00 ) and have 300 flawless round thru it. I've wanted an AUG for many many years but, I have to admit regardless of the Keltec Haters I couldn't be happier. It's accurate, so far reliable and a hell of a lot cheaper than the AUG.

That's a great price for that rifle. Odds are overwhelmingly good that you won't have any defects...plus you have the BEST ergonomically designed bullpup by far.

The local GS didn't have time to put it on the rack. I got there as they were unboxing it.

Having both, I like the price, weight, balance, trigger, safety, and true ambi operation of the RDB.  Also like that it takes common and cheaper AR mags (yes, I know that there are NATO stock versions of the AUG that take AR mags).  The main selling points of the AUG are that it's a proven design with a long history in military service.  Also, an AUG is going to always be worth more when you got to sell.

If you could guarantee that the RDB you got was as reliable as a factory AUG, it would be RDB all the way.  It's a question of whether you want to take a risk on the cheaper RDB or not.

If the AUG is the gun you wanted as a kid, get the AUG. If you get  a different bullpup you'd probably wish you would have gotten the AUG.

Not sure why this is even a question.  I owned an AUG and it's awesome...I've owned enough KT to tell me that I'll never spend another dime on anything KT.  I don't care how many rounds you have through the RDB, it's a KT at the end of the day.  KT seems to push products that aren't tested.  I've owned over 200 guns and KT is the only firearm that I ever had issues with function.  

KT has great innovation and crap QC.  AUG has been around for a long time and as others have already pointed out it has combat history.

AUG no doubt 

I'm sorry if my prior response was not taken seriously.

If you want a rifle that you have wanted for more than a decade and has proven it's combat worthiness, buy a NIB AUG and be done.

Keltec is unproven. No combat. As soon as they get a USA Police contract I'll pay attention to Kel Tec long arms. They are novelties.  


AUG parts are as cheap as ever. Anyone who tells you an AUG is not a serious choice doesn't know shit.

If that's the standard by which firearms are to be judged "Novelties" them most if not all firearms on the market are unproven and fall into that category. I don't think many of us are going into "Combat" with our guns .......

When the hordes of people shaped cardboard attack.  I'll be ready.   That's about as "combat" as I'll probably ever see.

isn't there some new australian aug  being produced here   is that out yet?

Regardless of whether you will or not, the point is they can handle it. The last update to the AUG (about 10 years ago) included improvements to the firing pin retention to ensure it would remain in place while launching grenades.

No one who buys a KT is going to bolt an underbarrel grenade launcher to it, so KT won't be getting feedback if it can handle it or not. AUGs get issued to warfighters, and the system has evolved based on subtle feedback and improvements. That's the benefit of choosing a combat-proven weapon. 

Lithgow/Thales F90
Not out yet. At least, I haven't gotten my email. It's lighter than the AUG because no QD barrel. Looks interesting.

I own both.

The RDB is a better, more modern design.

However, if you can only get one, I say AUG.

Dead nuts reliable, and proven over the course of decades.

All I know is my RDB has been dead nuts reliable for 500 rounds so far. And I absolutely love the ergonomics and design of the rifle. While I don't own an AUG I have enough time behind one to know I prefer the RDB. This is my first Keltec product and I think they hit one out of the park with this rifle.

This was my reaction, once I figured out we were talking about a Kel-tec product.

500 rounds denotes reliability?

All of this discussion is immaterial. If the gun you've wanted all your life is an AUG, get the AUG.

Practicality has nothing to do with this discussion.

/thread.

 It is also without question that RDB is a much better functioning design than ANY bullpup out atm. Like i said before...if i was going into a prolonged battle...i wouldnt take the RDB...or the AUG..I would take my M4.  What gun rides around in my truck ..and the range..camping...the RDB.  The AUG is a durable tank of a BP...but its ergonomics leave alot to be desired.  

I also like to shoot suppressed alot.... The RDB is the fucking KING of suppressed semiautos.

You know what, there's your answer.  Seriously, just stop there.  It's well known the AUG is a good solid gun that will last several life-times, so it's no mistake to get one.

I too thought the same, and love my AUG.
https://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_43/435616_So_I_got_an_AUG__A3_M1_.html

Thats why I wanted an AUG...really thats what got me hip to Bullpups in the first place...but I more a function over form guy...so unless the RDB breaks...it will be first in the stable. I don't see it happening. I already put more than 2.5k down the tube ...half suppressed and its as good as new. I wont put near 2k more through it..it made past the break-in\familiarization period with flying colors

Your opinion is not something that is "without question" correct.

You know you want to

Attached File

A couple of quick comments...

I have both, the AUG purchased in 1985 (when it truly was innovative) and the RDB purchased recently.

The AUG is the original model with integral Swarovski optic, which I like very much but which also limits the use of the gun.  The current models with the railed 'carry handle' so that you can swap optics easily makes much more sense.  Having said that, I really do like the original optic for my uses...

My AUG has the standard 20 in barrel, which I much prefer to the shorter ones all in vogue today.  The bore is twisted 1:9...

Although I also have the 'NATO' stock with STANAG magwell, I've never used it, continuing to use the Steyr mags.

The rifle is a joy to shoot, and shoots M193 very well indeed.  There are a couple of idiosyncrasies to keep in mind. Do not shoot the rifle with the fore-grip folded.  You'll do that only once if not wearing gloves (the gas exhaust port will get you).

One day out at the range with a friend of mine shooting the AUG (I was shooting it), he asked to shoot a few rounds.  While he was setting up at the bench, I was picking up brass.  I looked up just as he was ready to touch of the first round.  I had forgotten that he was left-handed, and his cheek was right over the ejection port (I'm right handed).  Yelling quickly to get his attention, he didn't fire.  I still wonder if the ejected case would have gone right through his cheek or not.  Just sayin'...

While a left handed bolt is available for the AUG (for only $250, of course) and all you have to do is install it and swap the lid cover and plate to the opposite side, and all this is really easy to do, still...  Of course, the operating handle is still on the left.

As I remember it, the black NATO stock is not cut for left hand ejection.  I might have to pull the stock out of the box later to see if memory serves me or not...

I have fired enough rounds through the AUG to trust it.  And, as others have pointed out, there's a military use history to point to...  Having said that, I must also say that, in Australian service, there have been some problems.  The F88 has shown 'excessive' wear in the barrel takedown seat.  I think that the new version being produced has removed the changeable barrel option.  For us here, that 'problem' is probably not a problem.  Personally, I really like the ease with which the barrel can be removed.  For one thing, it makes cleaning a snap...

The RDB is somewhat of a horse of a different color.  While I really like the rifle, I have not fired enough rounds through it to trust it yet.  Having said that, it has been flawless so far.

I would much prefer a 20 in barrel to the 17.3 in. one on the rifle and, if KelTec ever gets their 20in version out, I'll get one.

The KelTec really is completely ambidextrous.

I have a Bushnell AR 1-4x24mm IR Throwdown optic currently on the rifle, mounted with a Burris PEPR non-QD mount mounted 'backwards' (to put the mounting nuts on the right side to avoid skinning my knuckles on them when operating the charging handle on the left side).  It's worked well so far...

I don't like the rail on the bottom of the handguard.  It's molded in so it can't be removed.  The handguard has a dramatic swell at the front to prevent your hand from going too far foreward.  Given that the muzzle is right there, that's probably a good idea.  I just think that it looks like crap, but maybe that's just me.  I currently have a Magpul AFG-2 on the rail, positioned just far enough back to limit the forward movement of my hand (most pictures of the rifle show it with this grip), but I'm not sure that I like it enough yet to keep it that way.  I may just put one of the stops at the end of the rail and cover the rest with a ladder rail cover.

If the rifle had a 20 inch barrel, this 'problem' would not exist.

The barrel is twisted 1:7...

The rifle is a joy to shoot.  How well it holds up over time is currently an unknown.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.  With all the KelTec hatred, I thought that it was worth sharing...

Forrest

Excellent post man thank you :)

You are absolutely right. Allow me to rephrase...there are thigs i value in he function and design of the RDB that make far superior to the AUG

1. Much, much better trigger OTB.
2. RDB is thin and light in comparison to the AUG
3. RDB is AK simple and a snap to clean. more simple design than the AUG
4. RDB is by far the most suppressor friendly bullpup...hands down..in everyway possible compared to the AUG
5  RDB is 100% ambidextrous.

In comparison to all bullpups...the RDB is a better design if these fucntions and inherent factors are in anyway important to the potential prospective bullpup shopper.... if not...please disregard

#1, 3, and 4 are completely subjective.

AUG all the way I love mine!

1. "Much, much better" is subjective. Out of box, I barely feel the "heavy" trigger of the AUG.
2. Lighter yes. No comment on being thinner. Difference is maybe a pound. Weight rations is important, but that pound isn't likely to make a huge difference elsewhere.
3. Push bolt, pull out receiver. For the most part that's all you really need to do with an AUG. Pulling out the hammerpack along with it isn't very difficult either. How is the RDB simpler?
4. Never ran a suppressor so can't comment.
5. This is about the only real advantage I see the RDB having.

I'm a function over form guy as well, I went AUG.

AUG... owned a PLR 16, always jammed.  Will never buy a Kel Tec again.  I wish they worked better, bc I love the designs.  To me AUGs are THE bullpup rifle to have!

i prefer a lighter and more crisp trigger... so subjectively speaking...I much prefer the trigger in the RDB.  Lighter and thinner (width of the weapon)...thats not subject to debate.  RDB is easier and faster to clean. No seperate piston to clean...no trigger pack to remove and no build up to scrape in the piston. I also like the fact that the RDB has more than two gas settings. I have run a suppressor on my AUG and the RDB....no contest, RDB hands down... no piston pop...no gas in face, smoother recoil.

So to sum it up...if you want a more heavier,  fatter bullpup with a mushier and more weighty trigger that doesnt suppress well and isnt at all ambidextrous without tediuos hardware change...then the AUG is the clear winner ...subjectively speaking. The only thing the AUG has over the RDB is that its built like a tank ( and weighs like a tank too)

i have owned three Keltec products , The KSG which was flawless for the short time i owned it. A 40 cal SUB2000 , great camp gun, nasty slapping recoil but never fails to go boom and is as accurate as any pistol carbine I have shot and this RDB which has been flawlwess in a lowballed estimated 2.5k rounds. Kel must have its problems in QC, but they havent impacted me at all.  My AUG has never failed in about 2k rounds either

there is no reason to remove the AUG trigger pack for normal cleaning. it barely shows any carbon at all

on weight, a 16" AUG-A1 (i have an A1) weighs 7.3 lbs with a built in optic; the RDB weighs 6.7 lbs without an optic

the trigger on my A1 has never been mushy and has always had a very crisp break and I've had it since the 90's.  I've never seen anyone post groups from an RDB.  How does it shoot?

And I would hope that a rifle designed 40 years after the AUG would try and correct some of the general perceived bullpup deficiencies.  I like the idea of the downward ejection. Steyr did that in their ACR trials gun in the 80s