Has anyone seen any test data on this?

With all the talk about the G36 and it's 6-8 mag (consecutive) plastic-cooking limitation, I'm just wondering what number will start to cook the FN plastic around the barrel of the F2000. Would it suffer from similar POI shifting when that happens? Google has failed me on this one.

I'd send a PM to the Battlefield Vegas guy. They have a full auto F2000, which I recall from a thread he posted on FN weapons, was holding up well in their FA rental range:

"I am not a huge fan of the F2000 because to me, it feels bulky and awkward when shooting. That being said, customers love it and we haven't had any problems with the system.

V/R
Ron"
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_24/447078_FN-products-handle-stress-VERY-well.html&page=2

Thanks. I emailed him.

At least the FN Barrel Support Side Plates are inexpensive. I didn't get any hits when I searched for people replacing them either, although I suspect there are far less F2000's in use than G36's.

What about the Tavor? Any word on that? I would expect a Steyr AUG to go longer than either before sustaining damage (excluding barrel wear ).

My buddy is an engineer and huge FS2000 fan (he may be up to duel wielding them at this point) and he commented on the design as being "a deadly airsoft gun" in terms of construction, due to the modular plastic construction of nearly all of the parts. The R&D cost must of been huge, as well as the the tooling cost for all of the separate plastic parts. But conversely, once those costs were paid for, the F2K should have been very inexpensive to produce (likely cheaper to produce then an AK assuming equal labor costs).

Looking at the X-RAY, the machining is limited to essentially a barrel and bolt assembly:



I really think FN needs to bring the F2K back to the US, and sell it for $1,000 to undercut the rest of the bullpup market. Given the construction, they would still be making quite a bit of coinye. It's a great design, and apparently does about 1.5-2moa pretty easily.

By comparison, the AUG has a ton of metal inside:
http://raygunz.com/wp-content/themes/yin_and_yang/timthumb.php?src=http://raygunz.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/xguns2rev_0001_MSAR-STG-556.jpg&h=466&w=700&q=90

Is this the one that ejects out the front?

Yes, the FS2000 features forward ejection and feeds from aluminum AR15 mags. It has a completely sealed action, making it very resistant to dust a debris.

Mud test
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZ6P44b9pDQ

Dust test
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFg05BNN5zw

I love the F2000/FS2000. I own 2. But you must be smoking crack to think that FN would sell it for a grand.

Would is a big question, as FN pretty much always charges a premium, but could they? Yes they could. KelTec doesn't have a fraction of the manufacturing capability of FN, and the RDB, which has more metal parts then the FS2K, is now selling for around $1,100 on Gunbroker.

The FS2000 (excluding the R&D and tooling startup costs) is simply not that expensive to produce.

A fairly simple bolt assembly:


And a pretty straightforward pencil barrel:


Then add pins, springs, screws, and a aluminum top rail, and that's about it for metal parts.

The rest are Jizzed out glass reinforced nylon parts.

Glocks cost between $65-$125 to manufacture. You can buy cheap AR15's for $400-$500 RETAIL, which are all machined. I would not be surprised if FN's cost of manufacturing the FS2000 (not counting upfront R&D and tooling costs) is around $300.

How many FS2000's were sold when they cost $1600? 5,000? 10,000 at most? The Tavor has sold over 40,000 (making it the most popular bullpup ever by overall sales in the US.) Given the rarity of finding FS2K's in the wild, I have to assume not that many were sold.

So lets say 10K units at $1600 = $16 Million in sales in the US.

Now at $1000, fully $600 less then a Tavor and $700 less then an AUG.... redesign it to accept P-MAGS and you could have something that would outsell the Tavor.

50K units sold @ $1,000 = $50 Million in sales in the US.

Given FN's size, near vertical integration, and strong US manufacturing presence, there's no reason they couldn't play hardball in the US bullpup market and undercut everyone with $1,000 space gats.

That's a Tavor barrel, isn't it?

While I'm sure FN could sell their bullpup for much less, I don't think they have any desire to. They obviously felt it was better to discontinue imports than to make more efforts to move a product that simply wasn't moving well. People are standing in line waiting for SCAR import shipments, so why bother with a bullpup that sits in a warehouse taking up overhead?

I don't think they really care too much about the civilian market. Sure, they'll sell you a 249s for $11k or a "collector" series AR for $1,600. Those are not reasonable prices. I think they could stand alone purely on their world military sales, even if they disregarded the civilian market completely, and their pricing structure reflects that. They charge a high fee, they're getting it, and nothing sits in warehouses, so it's a win/win for them.

Good catch! That may in fact be the Tavor barrel; it was found on a google image search for FS2000 barrels, and was the only image available.

However, it is very close in to the barrel shown in the parts diagram:



As for not selling the FS2K any more in the US, they may very well have given up on it. But from a strategic perspective, that's foolish in my opinion. With the Tavor, AUG A3 SF, and Lithgow F90, and soon to be the MDR on the market, I don't foresee the F2000 snagging too many military contracts in the future. At least according to Wikipedia, their last military contract was to Libya in 2009 for 367 rifles...

Meanwhile, the largest contract of all went to Saudi Arabia for 55K rifles; at $1000, they could very well surpass that in US sales.

Furthermore, access to the US civilian market means aftermarket support and refinement, which is the single greatest boon to any serious rifle design. That's why the AR15 is on top of the world - aftermarket support from the private sector is constantly honing the design. Meanwhile, look how much improvement has been made on the Tavor by introducing it to the US.

Exposed to the US aftermarket, the FS2K would get precision triggers, improved rails, ergonomic foregrips, light mounts - all the things necessary to make it a viable 21st century military rifle again.

If the choice is selling tens of thousands of $1000 FS2K's in the US and fostering private sector improvements on the design, or waiting years and years for military contracts that might not come while the design stagnates, that seems like a no brainer to me. It's not like they have to design a new rifle.

I have an early FS2000 and absolutely would buy an updated Mk2 version if FN ever did one.  It's always been a solid rifle that ran well with any ammo, brass or steel.  The gas system looks very similar to the one used in the SCAR but that's only a thought from photos as I never bought a SCAR.

An improved mag well would be nice, though the skirts help to seal the system from debris, so it's a trade off.

A factory threaded muzzle in standard US 5.56 threads would be my other request.

I took a bunch of detailed photos when I stripped it down to send the barrel to have the factory muzzle thing removed and standard 1/2x28 threads put on. I'll have to see if I can find one of the barrel.

If you have a photo of the FS2000 barrel that would be great - you very well might have the only one on the internet, as I've checked!

For the FS2K redesign, I think at a minimum they need to reduce the barrel from 17.4" to 16", thread it in 1/2x28, and give it a shorter flash hider. This will bring the OAL down to 27" from current 29.3," and the shorter model looks much cooler:



Also, given that everyone loves the looks and ergos of the P90, FN needs to give it a P90 forend with integral tri-rail:



These changes would be pretty simple, and I think definitely improve it's sales. Especially at $1,000-$1,200.

Now, if they wanted to charge FN prices for one, or really crush the Tavor, it would need to be designed to take PMAGS.

Lastly, cutting some of the fat off the stock would make it look a whole hell of a lot more nimble:
FS2000 Stock Chop mod

I would like to see a FS2000 that had a simplified traditional side eject. I realize that this takes away from the purpose of this rifle, however it would make for a better overall rifle with less complexity. I own one. It's a neat rifle, however after needing to clear a malfunction in the empty case elevator, it's not a good rifle when clearing such malfunctions. Neat concept, but needs to be further developed.

I've always liked the FS2000 and am bummed that they are so hard to find now. If FN upgraded and did sell them for 1000-1200 I think that they would sell a ton of them. This in turn would spur after market parts companies to come up with even more and innovative stuff.

Interesting. Anyone know about mag dumps with a tavor or x95?

You have a standard model with the integral factory optic, and you want a Tactical? Have you tried ordering the parts to swap out? I think they're under $500.

It is the same gas system as the SCAR. They use the same Gas Control Screws as well.

You can remove the rubber seals if you want, although I prefer leaving mine in. The additional resistance doesn't bother me. I just had to get used to it.

I checked harder...

More here: http://fnforum.net/forums/fn-fs2000-accessories-mods/23092-tutorial-fs2000-standard-tactical-conversion.html

A couple companies started on P90 fore ends. Monolith Arms actually made some, and they broke. High Tower Armory says they R&D'd them, but scrapped the project when FN discontinued importation.
https://www.hightowerarmory.com/SearchResults.asp?Cat=1829
http://209.251.48.101/forums/t_6_43/369885_-ARCHIVED-THREAD----High-Tower-Armory--Monolith-Arms-Fore-Grip--FS2000-.html


I think you should abandon all hope of FN bringing back the FS2000 for under $1500 or redesigning it to accept PMAGs.
I don't see the point of the chop mod stock. Most of the FN's bulky feeling comes from the width, and it's not going to get any narrower.

If they redesigned it to side-eject, it would be an AUG. 

Not quite. Different gas block porting, gas plug porting, even different functions for the gas settings.

They aren't literally the same, but they both have a "less" and "more" gas setting. You're correct that they're different in how the SCAR vents, and its "less" is for suppressor use, while the bullpup's "less" is the normal position. The roles could be reversed in either by changing the gas control screw size.

Sorry it took me until now.  Didn't realize I lost my ability to edit CR2 RAW camera images so had to do a quick and dirty conversion.  Tampered with the brightness a bit, the original was not so good.



ETA - No, I don't want the integral optic version and I'm fine with the dust seals on the mag well.  Integral optics usually suck so the tactical is easier to work with.  I've had a red dot and a 1-4x scope on it so variety is the spice of life!

I just think if they did a Mk2 variant, that enlarging the magazine well to fit newer polymer mags might require some changes to the design of the dust seal gasket.  Either it won't seal as well or they'll need a different approach.

ETA2 - A lot of the bulk of the stock is from the width due to the space for battery pack for the F2000 whizbang grenade launcher optic.  Might be an interesting candidate for the "powered rail" concept that kicks around.

I think FN prices their stuff high for the civvie market to cut down on the riff raff and make any hassles worthwhile.  They are fine selling 1/4 the rifles for double the cost.

Fantastic pics of the barrel, thank you! You win the internet today as the very sole source of this information (seriously, how often does that happen?)

Yeah I'm not holding my breath for a FS2000 redesign for $1,000, just typing in the hopes that some enterprising person in FN management reads this and get's dollar signs in his eyes.

That being said, I fully plan to pester everyone at the FN SHOT booth who will listen about bringing back the FS2K.

Agree about the integral battery pack being a great candidate for the powered rail program. Really I think what killed the F2K for military sales was that the rifle was designed from the ground up to be the kinetic component of a smart grenade launcher using the FN fire control computer (a simplified OICW) and none of the .mil customers read that part of the brochure.

A 40mm that could make 1st round shots though a window at 100 yards with an programable airbusting round would have been hell on wheels.

People will pay for the milspec rifle from the mil contractor. The FN-15s are much cheaper.

And the 249S is like 7-7.5K. I'm holding out for the Para. I do want an FS2000 though.

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