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Posted: 10/19/2016 1:50:17 PM EDT
I want a bullpup. Which of these will be better suited for my 5.56 ti phantom suppressor - in other words, least gassy and no malfunctions?
I've handled an SAR, liked it. Never shot one (never handled or shot an Aug) Will be running my pmags, I like the aftermarket support for the SAR and like to tinker (buy bolt on parts, bolt them on, enjoy them - then get bored and sell at a loss  )
I've spent the last few months reading as much as I can here and elsewhere and am still undecided as to which I should roll the dice with. It's between one the aforementioned guns and nods for my 40th birthday present to myself. I'm willing to spare no expense but would rather get into the game as cheap as possible; ie, I can see a path to going with the SAR AND partial nods kit whereas what I've been finding price wise for the aug nato is that they're really expensive and I'd be priced out of nods for a while. Opinions, experiences and cussing at me is invited... |
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Posted: 10/19/2016 3:01:05 PM EDT
[#1]
Quoted: I want a bullpup. Which of these will be better suited for my 5.56 ti phantom suppressor - in other words, least gassy and no malfunctions? I've handled an SAR, liked it. Never shot one (never handled or shot an Aug) Will be running my pmags, I like the aftermarket support for the SAR and like to tinker (buy bolt on parts, bolt them on, enjoy them - then get bored and sell at a loss )I've spent the last few months reading as much as I can here and elsewhere and am still undecided as to which I should roll the dice with. It's between one the aforementioned guns and nods for my 40th birthday present to myself. I'm willing to spare no expense but would rather get into the game as cheap as possible; ie, I can see a path to going with the SAR AND partial nods kit whereas what I've been finding price wise for the aug nato is that they're really expensive and I'd be priced out of nods for a while. Opinions, experiences and cussing at me is invited... If you're near the PDX area, I have both. They are set up for left handed shooting though. The AUG is not set up for a suppressor, because metric threads. I shoot the Tavor suppressed. It's a bit gassy. |
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Posted: 10/19/2016 4:55:18 PM EDT
[#2]
that's pretty cool...IM inbound...
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Posted: 10/19/2016 7:50:03 PM EDT
[#3]
I tried my Surefire Socom on both my Tavor and my NATO AUG and there was a large poi shift with the Tavor, I think due to the thin barrel profile versus the weight of the suppressor hanging off the end.
On the AUG I saw minimal poi shift at 100 yards. |
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Posted: 10/19/2016 11:36:10 PM EDT
[#4]
I have both as well but I'm in Houston.
My Tavor was really gassy with m193 but not so much with handloads. But quiet, no ear pro quiet while shooting under a roof(as long as I'm the only one shooting). My aug was not as quiet because I brought my saker 762 instead of my saker 556 but it was much less gassy. I need to pay attention and bring the 556 and aug to the next range trip and get back to you. |
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Posted: 10/20/2016 11:37:30 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have both as well but I'm in Houston. My Tavor was really gassy with m193 but not so much with handloads. But quiet, no ear pro quiet while shooting under a roof(as long as I'm the only one shooting). My aug was not as quiet because I brought my saker 762 instead of my saker 556 but it was much less gassy. I need to pay attention and bring the 556 and aug to the next range trip and get back to you. |
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Posted: 10/20/2016 3:45:11 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have both as well but I'm in Houston. My Tavor was really gassy with m193 but not so much with handloads. But quiet, no ear pro quiet while shooting under a roof(as long as I'm the only one shooting). My aug was not as quiet because I brought my saker 762 instead of my saker 556 but it was much less gassy. I need to pay attention and bring the 556 and aug to the next range trip and get back to you. So if I understand you correctly, the aug was not as quiet, not as gassy when shooting with a 762 suppressor But, the Tavor was less gas with a 556 suppressor when using handloads? I tend to shoot wolf gold in addition to other makers' m193. You ever shot the aug with 556 suppressor and m193 or comparable ammo? How'd it do? |
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Posted: 10/20/2016 10:02:33 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Did you mod you AUG barrel to accept the Saker? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I have both as well but I'm in Houston. My Tavor was really gassy with m193 but not so much with handloads. But quiet, no ear pro quiet while shooting under a roof(as long as I'm the only one shooting). My aug was not as quiet because I brought my saker 762 instead of my saker 556 but it was much less gassy. I need to pay attention and bring the 556 and aug to the next range trip and get back to you. Don't need to... you can just buy the 51T MAAD adapter for the 51T mount. |
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Posted: 10/21/2016 8:38:40 AM EDT
[#8]
Another member sealed around the rails to help with the gas from a Tavor while shooting with a can. I'm not that dedicated but then again when I shoot mine suppressed, I end up with "Tavor face".
Gas piston really isn't the best suited for shooting suppressed, at least in my experience. |
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Posted: 10/21/2016 11:14:42 AM EDT
[#9]
double tap |
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Posted: 10/21/2016 11:15:14 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Another member sealed around the rails to help with the gas from a Tavor while shooting with a can. I'm not that dedicated but then again when I shoot mine suppressed, I end up with "Tavor face". Gas piston really isn't the best suited for shooting suppressed, at least in my experience. I have a layer of duct tape over the "face side" ejection port cover. Seems to help a bit. It's a cheap but simple way to reduce some of the gas face. Tavor with 7.62 Saker. No, I didn't shoot where I wasn't supposed to.   |
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Posted: 10/21/2016 9:09:41 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Did you mod you AUG barrel to accept the Saker? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I have both as well but I'm in Houston. My Tavor was really gassy with m193 but not so much with handloads. But quiet, no ear pro quiet while shooting under a roof(as long as I'm the only one shooting). My aug was not as quiet because I brought my saker 762 instead of my saker 556 but it was much less gassy. I need to pay attention and bring the 556 and aug to the next range trip and get back to you. Sorry for the lag. Yes I did. |
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Posted: 10/21/2016 9:28:38 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So if I understand you correctly, the aug was not as quiet, not as gassy when shooting with a 762 suppressor But, the Tavor was less gas with a 556 suppressor when using handloads? I tend to shoot wolf gold in addition to other makers' m193. You ever shot the aug with 556 suppressor and m193 or comparable ammo? How'd it do? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I have both as well but I'm in Houston. My Tavor was really gassy with m193 but not so much with handloads. But quiet, no ear pro quiet while shooting under a roof(as long as I'm the only one shooting). My aug was not as quiet because I brought my saker 762 instead of my saker 556 but it was much less gassy. I need to pay attention and bring the 556 and aug to the next range trip and get back to you. So if I understand you correctly, the aug was not as quiet, not as gassy when shooting with a 762 suppressor But, the Tavor was less gas with a 556 suppressor when using handloads? I tend to shoot wolf gold in addition to other makers' m193. You ever shot the aug with 556 suppressor and m193 or comparable ammo? How'd it do? You are correct and I have not. I've never seen wolf gold but I do have some PMC bronze in my bag. I also have some more m193. |
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Posted: 10/21/2016 10:06:34 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Another member sealed around the rails to help with the gas from a Tavor while shooting with a can. I'm not that dedicated but then again when I shoot mine suppressed, I end up with "Tavor face". Gas piston really isn't the best suited for shooting suppressed, at least in my experience. I don't really think I got Tavor face. I didn't get any "color", just some odor. When I shot my hk45CT with a can I got stung with every shot. I sealed the rail and it works great with my handloads(223 velocity I think) as well as pmc bronze. In addition, truly good without plugs, under a cover! |
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Posted: 10/21/2016 10:10:23 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have a layer of duct tape over the "face side" ejection port cover. Seems to help a bit. It's a cheap but simple way to reduce some of the gas face. Tavor with 7.62 Saker. No, I didn't shoot where I wasn't supposed to. I have an MI port cover and it seems to be effective. My buddy watched for smoke and said it only smoked from the ejection port. https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-ct2WGJk/0/L/i-ct2WGJk-L.jpg https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-HG9mmzS/0/L/i-HG9mmzS-L.jpg Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Another member sealed around the rails to help with the gas from a Tavor while shooting with a can. I'm not that dedicated but then again when I shoot mine suppressed, I end up with "Tavor face". Gas piston really isn't the best suited for shooting suppressed, at least in my experience. Tavor with 7.62 Saker. No, I didn't shoot where I wasn't supposed to. I have an MI port cover and it seems to be effective. My buddy watched for smoke and said it only smoked from the ejection port. https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-ct2WGJk/0/L/i-ct2WGJk-L.jpg https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-HG9mmzS/0/L/i-HG9mmzS-L.jpg |
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Posted: 10/21/2016 10:12:13 PM EDT
[#15]
I will pack my bag tomorrow for Tuesday and will bring both 'pups and both cans.
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Posted: 10/23/2016 1:50:48 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I will pack my bag tomorrow for Tuesday and will bring both 'pups and both cans. To Oregon for side x side evaluation? I'll find you a virgin 
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Posted: 10/23/2016 2:01:58 PM EDT
[#17]
My Tavor and Aug are both suppressed, and I've run the Mini 4 and SDN6 on both of them. The Aug is much louder and much gassier than the Tavor. I hate shooting the Aug with a suppressor, but love shooting the Tavor with one. Hope this helps.
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Posted: 10/23/2016 4:37:57 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't really think I got Tavor face. I didn't get any "color", just some odor. When I shot my hk45CT with a can I got stung with every shot. I sealed the rail and it works great with my handloads(223 velocity I think) as well as pmc bronze. In addition, truly good without plugs, under a cover! Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Another member sealed around the rails to help with the gas from a Tavor while shooting with a can. I'm not that dedicated but then again when I shoot mine suppressed, I end up with "Tavor face". Gas piston really isn't the best suited for shooting suppressed, at least in my experience. I don't really think I got Tavor face. I didn't get any "color", just some odor. When I shot my hk45CT with a can I got stung with every shot. I sealed the rail and it works great with my handloads(223 velocity I think) as well as pmc bronze. In addition, truly good without plugs, under a cover! sparks556 runs his with a sdn6 with his rail and cover sealed, much better than mine. Over all I'm not worried about it, a little war paint to wash off. I use a M4-2000, quiet enough for no plugs, the weight distrution between bullpup and can is nice. Doesn't sting with PMC ammo either. |
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Posted: 10/23/2016 5:09:37 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
To Oregon for side x side evaluation? I'll find you a virgin Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I will pack my bag tomorrow for Tuesday and will bring both 'pups and both cans. To Oregon for side x side evaluation? I'll find you a virgin Uh, thanks but I'll pass. I can do a SBS evaluation within 20 minutes of home but I appreciate your offer. I may reconsider if & when the hildebeast takes over! |
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Posted: 10/23/2016 5:11:32 PM EDT
[#20]
I've spoken with sparks on occasion regarding this previously.
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Posted: 10/24/2016 12:15:57 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My Tavor and Aug are both suppressed, and I've run the Mini 4 and SDN6 on both of them. The Aug is much louder and much gassier than the Tavor. I hate shooting the Aug with a suppressor, but love shooting the Tavor with one. Hope this helps. Helps quite a bit, thank you. |
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Posted: 10/24/2016 9:36:34 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Helps quite a bit, thank you. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: My Tavor and Aug are both suppressed, and I've run the Mini 4 and SDN6 on both of them. The Aug is much louder and much gassier than the Tavor. I hate shooting the Aug with a suppressor, but love shooting the Tavor with one. Hope this helps. Helps quite a bit, thank you. |
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Posted: 10/24/2016 10:30:55 PM EDT
[#23]
I love my tavor more than any other rifle I've had. My ARs have literally not been out of the safe since I got it.
However, she hasn't been a pleasure to shoot suppressed. Bad gas face, and have to hold my breath for long strings because the fumes are so noxious. One shot at a time like during hunting isn't even noticeable though. Please, some suggestions or links on how to seal this thing so this doesn't happen anymore: 
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Posted: 10/25/2016 11:28:17 AM EDT
[#24]
I took the 'pups out this morning and shot some video with cans.
If someone who has mastered posting wants to post them PM me an email and I will send them. They were rushed but I was trying to get ahead of the gathering of old men that takes place on Tuesdays now. |
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Posted: 10/25/2016 11:51:43 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I love my tavor more than any other rifle I've had. My ARs have literally not been out of the safe since I got it. However, she hasn't been a pleasure to shoot suppressed. Bad gas face, and have to hold my breath for long strings because the fumes are so noxious. One shot at a time like during hunting isn't even noticeable though. Please, some suggestions or links on how to seal this thing so this doesn't happen anymore: http://i.imgur.com/zENW0h1h.jpg |
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Posted: 10/25/2016 1:50:05 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Black duct tape over the face side port helps quite a bit. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I love my tavor more than any other rifle I've had. My ARs have literally not been out of the safe since I got it. However, she hasn't been a pleasure to shoot suppressed. Bad gas face, and have to hold my breath for long strings because the fumes are so noxious. One shot at a time like during hunting isn't even noticeable though. Please, some suggestions or links on how to seal this thing so this doesn't happen anymore: http://i.imgur.com/zENW0h1h.jpg This; duct tape makes for a quick soluton, or a small amount of water-based duct seal around the edges of the left-side ejection port if you don't intend to switch which side the gun ejects from for awhile. You could also remove the left-side cover and apply the stuff along the inside edges; the stuff is basically just glue. The water-based mastic takes a few hours to set, but once it does, it'll give you a complete seal, and it'll last a long damn time. Isn't too difficult to remove, either; stuff'll peel right off if you break the seal, and then whatever doesn't come off at first can be scraped with a fingernail. Do NOT use oil-based, because you will never get it off. That stuff is permanent; when I work on existing duct that's been running for 30 or 40 years, it has oil-based sealant, and the steel duct rips apart before that shit breaks loose. |
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Posted: 10/25/2016 5:04:10 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I love my tavor more than any other rifle I've had. My ARs have literally not been out of the safe since I got it. However, she hasn't been a pleasure to shoot suppressed. Bad gas face, and have to hold my breath for long strings because the fumes are so noxious. One shot at a time like during hunting isn't even noticeable though. Please, some suggestions or links on how to seal this thing so this doesn't happen anymore: http://i.imgur.com/zENW0h1h.jpg black rtv sealant anywhere you see a crack (back of the rail) |
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Posted: 10/26/2016 1:22:27 AM EDT
[#28]
My take away from the comments is that the Tavor, with a few mods, shoots well suppressed and reliably.
Seems to me that's the way to go given: takes pmags, good aftermarket support, AVAILABLE, less expensive by several hundred dollars which means as I turn 40 I'll be finger fucking a new bull pup and nods. Love it. I think my $4500budget should get me pretty far all around Any detractors? There is the fact that the Aug turns 40 same month I do 
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Posted: 10/26/2016 12:03:58 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I took the 'pups out this morning and shot some video with cans. If someone who has mastered posting wants to post them PM me an email and I will send them. They were rushed but I was trying to get ahead of the gathering of old men that takes place on Tuesdays now. You can send them to me. What was your observation? How'd the Tavor do with a 556 can? |
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Posted: 10/26/2016 1:05:45 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I took the 'pups out this morning and shot some video with cans. If someone who has mastered posting wants to post them PM me an email and I will send them. They were rushed but I was trying to get ahead of the gathering of old men that takes place on Tuesdays now. Hey mikey...what's your problem with "old men"? I'm an old man and have plenty of bullpups, AR's, and "cool kids" toys. Does that make me a bad person? However, I must confess that I do have one bolt rifle for serious long range reloading and shooting...so...I hope that doesn't label me as "old". 
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Posted: 10/26/2016 1:14:41 PM EDT
[#31]
Since we're talking about old men and all... Is this a good time to bring up xdmikey's midlife crisis corvette?
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Posted: 10/26/2016 7:37:03 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
manticore gasketed cover black rtv sealant anywhere you see a crack (back of the rail) Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I love my tavor more than any other rifle I've had. My ARs have literally not been out of the safe since I got it. However, she hasn't been a pleasure to shoot suppressed. Bad gas face, and have to hold my breath for long strings because the fumes are so noxious. One shot at a time like during hunting isn't even noticeable though. Please, some suggestions or links on how to seal this thing so this doesn't happen anymore: http://i.imgur.com/zENW0h1h.jpg black rtv sealant anywhere you see a crack (back of the rail) Already have an aftermarket MI port cover. After some other reading I think it's coming from the back of the rail. I'll try the RTV. |
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Posted: 10/27/2016 8:55:11 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You can send them to me. What was your observation? How'd the Tavor do with a 556 can? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I took the 'pups out this morning and shot some video with cans. If someone who has mastered posting wants to post them PM me an email and I will send them. They were rushed but I was trying to get ahead of the gathering of old men that takes place on Tuesdays now. You can send them to me. What was your observation? How'd the Tavor do with a 556 can? PM me your email address and I'll get them off to you! |
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Posted: 10/27/2016 9:00:24 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Hey mikey...what's your problem with "old men"? I'm an old man and have plenty of bullpups, AR's, and "cool kids" toys. Does that make me a bad person? However, I must confess that I do have one bolt rifle for serious long range reloading and shooting...so...I hope that doesn't label me as "old".
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I took the 'pups out this morning and shot some video with cans. If someone who has mastered posting wants to post them PM me an email and I will send them. They were rushed but I was trying to get ahead of the gathering of old men that takes place on Tuesdays now. Hey mikey...what's your problem with "old men"? I'm an old man and have plenty of bullpups, AR's, and "cool kids" toys. Does that make me a bad person? However, I must confess that I do have one bolt rifle for serious long range reloading and shooting...so...I hope that doesn't label me as "old".
Not a problem per se but they do seem to frown on double taps. We're usually done by 9:30 which is when they arrive. That means ear pro in and talking is done. eta Maybe I should have called them fuds. They just shoot a different style of guns is all. |
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Posted: 10/27/2016 9:07:06 PM EDT
[#35]
I have an MI port cover and it's pretty effective. I've also rtv'd the top rail.
As we were making the videos I was told the smoke was coming from the ejection port on the Tavor, mainly with the saker 556. |
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Posted: 10/27/2016 9:11:27 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Since we're talking about old men and all... Is this a good time to bring up xdmikey's midlife crisis corvette? If shaggy thinks his aug is expensive, he should pic up a bargain c5 corvette. The only way to have a 'vette, manual! |
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Posted: 11/1/2016 1:33:55 AM EDT
[#37]
huh, I find the Aug less gassy than the Tavor. I run a Surefire SOCOM mini which is a less gassy but louder can. Plus I still have not done the suppressor mod on the adverse gas setting to bleed off more gas.
My AUG indoors seems to be less gassy than the Tavor outdoors. As far as sound, it seemed about the same, kinda loud. |
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Posted: 11/1/2016 11:07:30 AM EDT
[#38]
I took these shots this weekend. Not me shooting.   |
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Posted: 11/5/2016 9:59:00 PM EDT
[#39]
I finally got my barrel work done, I'll let you know how it runs with the can.
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Posted: 11/5/2016 9:59:18 PM EDT
[#40]
I neglected to make a video of the aug in the grenade setting(single shot)with either a 556 or 762 saker but damn it's quiet.
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Posted: 11/6/2016 7:10:05 AM EDT
[#41]
I finally had mine out this weekend, with a Griffin M4SD Flash Comp on the end (which is wow obnoxious on this thing), and an M4SDII on that (all tied onto a RatWorx thread adapter)
Way overgassed. I didn't get any gas in face or anything but it was running really, really fast. I have a couple of mags with weak mag springs and the first 20-25 rounds would all eject nearly straight out front, and by the end of the mag I was getting failure to ejects; the bolt was running just too fast. With the can off, it ran fine; extracted/ejected as you would expect. I don't know if the M4SDII just has too much blowback or what, but while it works just fine suppressed for a bit...it's waaaay overgassed for me. The Griffin flash comp sort of works but the concussion right in front of your face is...wow. It's not like I would expect it to be a bed of roses but still, it's a bit punchy. I was looking online and there's supposedly an Austrian suppressed gas plug port/size to try...I ordered a spare gas plug from Pete a little bit ago just to try this thing out on. Now to just fix my drill press and see if I can figure out how to enlarge the port in the plug without creating any new holes in my hands
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Posted: 11/6/2016 7:53:46 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I finally had mine out this weekend, with a Griffin M4SD Flash Comp on the end (which is wow obnoxious on this thing), and an M4SDII on that (all tied onto a RatWorx thread adapter) Way overgassed. I didn't get any gas in face or anything but it was running really, really fast. I have a couple of mags with weak mag springs and the first 20-25 rounds would all eject nearly straight out front, and by the end of the mag I was getting failure to ejects; the bolt was running just too fast. With the can off, it ran fine; extracted/ejected as you would expect. I don't know if the M4SDII just has too much blowback or what, but while it works just fine suppressed for a bit...it's waaaay overgassed for me. The Griffin flash comp sort of works but the concussion right in front of your face is...wow. It's not like I would expect it to be a bed of roses but still, it's a bit punchy. I was looking online and there's supposedly an Austrian suppressed gas plug port/size to try...I ordered a spare gas plug from Pete a little bit ago just to try this thing out on. Now to just fix my drill press and see if I can figure out how to enlarge the port in the plug without creating any new holes in my hands Note that the gas plug is HARD! 
I'm using a Surefire can, NATO stock, and Lancer mags. There's obviously a lot more gas but no issue with the bolt outrunning the mags. If you do find a plug with a suppressed setting let us know. |
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Posted: 11/6/2016 9:14:39 AM EDT
[#43]
There was some info posted from a guy who did enlarge the hole in the plug(as opposed to the rifle part)and had some luck with it. I just don't remember everything about it since: a) I didn't have my can yet, b) I have no way to drill it out, and c) I surely would end up with additional holes in a couple of things.
I believe Pete was in on this discussion or was expected to be. |
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Posted: 11/6/2016 9:27:03 AM EDT
[#44]
It was the rat who drilled out his gas regulator..
Apparently (coming from an Austrian soldier at lightfighter) there is a factory gas regulator with a suppressed setting. |
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Posted: 11/6/2016 9:41:02 AM EDT
[#45]
Yeah I saw that thread on bullpup forum, he mostly conjoined the normal setting gas port with the adverse setting exhaust port
Which in theory should work just fine, it's just powerful ugly Sadly I think that's probably the best way to go though because trying to drill out for the Grenade setting instead entails all kinds of problems...
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Posted: 11/9/2016 10:53:26 AM EDT
[#46]
Are these available for purchase anywhere?
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