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Posted: 10/8/2016 12:20:06 PM EDT
OK...so I got impulsive and got me a brand new Kel Tec RDB...assumed the risk of this new platform.

Took it to the range for the first time. Started to sight it in. Groups were 3-4" at 25 yards...scratching my head. Then after less then the first 15 rounds, the action spring popped out of the piston / bolt assembly!!! This is a "known issue" as reported on You Tube and claimed by others. The action spring is supposed to be full contained within the piston / bolt assembly. I believe if you manually remove the action spring then you risk voiding your warranty.

Additional complaint: The bolt release was so stiff as to require depressing both bolt release simultaneously to get it to release...at times.

I contacted Kel Tec and they were responsive. They now have had the RDB for about a 12 days. I am being told that "turn around" is 8-10 weeks.

My opinion: I am extremely disappointed...but I rolled the dice buying this new platform.

For now, I do not fault the platform design. I appears as though this is a QC issue to me. A QC issue on their potentially most prominent firearm is embarrassing!! I expect that when I get it back it will work flawlessly...lets see.


Link Posted: 10/8/2016 12:30:23 PM EDT
[#1]
Dang, that's disappointing.  I've been drooling over those for a while now.
Link Posted: 10/8/2016 4:50:02 PM EDT
[#2]
Hard to tell from your pictures, but did the weld at the front of the spring/op rod fail? I recall reading an issue (on KTOG I think) wherein that weld was missing. Curious if that's the same issue you had.
Link Posted: 10/9/2016 8:32:50 AM EDT
[#3]
Yes. Same issue mentioned on KTOG.

The "collar" that retains the action spring and guides the piston rod popped out and is jammed up with the spring in the close up pic. I see this issue reported by a several owners online.

The fix by Kel Tec seems to be a weld when previously the "collar" was held in place by simple machined indents. I am not sure, but do not recall my piston assembly having any weld marks where the collar is located. Mine is a 600 series. A guy on KTOG with a 900 series RDB had weld marks...maybe they were day dreaming in that Florida heat and forgot to weld a bunch. Lol.

It better not take 10 weeks to fix...so annoying.
Link Posted: 10/9/2016 3:55:27 PM EDT
[#4]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Yes. Same issue mentioned on KTOG.

The "collar" that retains the action spring and guides the piston rod popped out and is jammed up with the spring in the close up pic. I see this issue reported by a several owners online.

The fix by Kel Tec seems to be a weld when previously the "collar" was held in place by simple machined indents. I am not sure, but do not recall my piston assembly having any weld marks where the collar is located. Mine is a 600 series. A guy on KTOG with a 900 series RDB had weld marks...maybe they were day dreaming in that Florida heat and forgot to weld a bunch. Lol.

It better not take 10 weeks to fix...so annoying.
View Quote


As an additional data point, I just checked my rifle (low 600 serial number) and it has the weld in place. It was obviously done before the parkerization was done, as there's no discoloration around the weld. Seems pretty likely that a rack of rifles missed the weld step. Hard to say how many that is, but it's somewhere between two and 300
Link Posted: 10/9/2016 11:49:40 PM EDT
[#5]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


As an additional data point, I just checked my rifle (low 600 serial number) and it has the weld in place. It was obviously done before the parkerization was done, as there's no discoloration around the weld. Seems pretty likely that a rack of rifles missed the weld step. Hard to say how many that is, but it's somewhere between two and 300
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Yes. Same issue mentioned on KTOG.

The "collar" that retains the action spring and guides the piston rod popped out and is jammed up with the spring in the close up pic. I see this issue reported by a several owners online.

The fix by Kel Tec seems to be a weld when previously the "collar" was held in place by simple machined indents. I am not sure, but do not recall my piston assembly having any weld marks where the collar is located. Mine is a 600 series. A guy on KTOG with a 900 series RDB had weld marks...maybe they were day dreaming in that Florida heat and forgot to weld a bunch. Lol.

It better not take 10 weeks to fix...so annoying.


As an additional data point, I just checked my rifle (low 600 serial number) and it has the weld in place. It was obviously done before the parkerization was done, as there's no discoloration around the weld. Seems pretty likely that a rack of rifles missed the weld step. Hard to say how many that is, but it's somewhere between two and 300


So does this mean you need to break a weld if you ever need to replace the spring?
Link Posted: 10/10/2016 1:39:42 AM EDT
[#6]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


So does this mean you need to break a weld if you ever need to replace the spring?
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Yes. Same issue mentioned on KTOG.

The "collar" that retains the action spring and guides the piston rod popped out and is jammed up with the spring in the close up pic. I see this issue reported by a several owners online.

The fix by Kel Tec seems to be a weld when previously the "collar" was held in place by simple machined indents. I am not sure, but do not recall my piston assembly having any weld marks where the collar is located. Mine is a 600 series. A guy on KTOG with a 900 series RDB had weld marks...maybe they were day dreaming in that Florida heat and forgot to weld a bunch. Lol.

It better not take 10 weeks to fix...so annoying.


As an additional data point, I just checked my rifle (low 600 serial number) and it has the weld in place. It was obviously done before the parkerization was done, as there's no discoloration around the weld. Seems pretty likely that a rack of rifles missed the weld step. Hard to say how many that is, but it's somewhere between two and 300


So does this mean you need to break a weld if you ever need to replace the spring?


No, as far as I can tell, how you're supposed to remove the spring is to depress the 'piston retainer' (part 321) down with a pick, and the spring and guide rod should come out the back. The issue here is a weld failing on the front of the bolt carrier weldment (part 322), right where that notch on the top is. My carrier has a weld there, which I assume holds in an annular portion that the spring bears on.



Link Posted: 10/10/2016 9:26:54 PM EDT
[#7]
My piston assembly looked like the diagram ...with no weld but same machined indents as diagram...all the way on the left.
Link Posted: 10/12/2016 12:10:32 AM EDT
[#8]
Damn... I'm going to have to look mine over.  I have about 4k rounds through mine ...mostly suppressed with no problems so far.  haven't shot it in a couple of months though.
Link Posted: 10/14/2016 9:17:14 AM EDT
[#9]
I think some early carriers didnt have the weld, but they should all have them now. Mine came with the weld. My rdb has run perfectly for well over 1000 rounds of steel cased ammo and many hundreds of rounds of brass cased ammo. With good ammo my rdb shoots just over moa.
Link Posted: 10/18/2016 12:27:09 PM EDT
[#10]
When it gets back...I will look forward to several thousand rounds of flawless operation! Come on Kel Tec...don't let me down.
Link Posted: 10/18/2016 1:08:39 PM EDT
[#11]
Thanks for sharing.  Mine is on the way to me.  I will definitely check it over before shooting it.  Tag'd.
Link Posted: 10/26/2016 1:25:47 PM EDT
[#12]
Wow thanks for sharing. I'd be ticked off too with that kind of turn around time. I'll keep an eye out on mine too.
Link Posted: 10/27/2016 1:38:54 AM EDT
[#13]
Sorry for the bad luck....

As far as Kel Tec  - Thumbs WAYYYY DOOOWWWN
Link Posted: 10/29/2016 5:59:04 AM EDT
[#14]
Sucks about the failures..... but mine is solid...still like it better than any other bullpup I have used.
Link Posted: 10/31/2016 3:34:52 AM EDT
[#15]
My extractor axis (302 in the diagram above) came loose and got bent by the carrier, 5 rounds into a magazine, making the weapon inoperable!  Message sent to KT
Link Posted: 10/31/2016 3:11:33 PM EDT
[#16]
35mm shooter...How many rounds did you have on the rifle before this happened?
Link Posted: 10/31/2016 5:02:54 PM EDT
[#17]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
35mm shooter...How many rounds did you have on the rifle before this happened?
View Quote


60 rds the first time I shot it, just 5 rounds this time
Link Posted: 10/31/2016 5:38:13 PM EDT
[#18]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


60 rds the first time I shot it, just 5 rounds this time
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
35mm shooter...How many rounds did you have on the rifle before this happened?


60 rds the first time I shot it, just 5 rounds this time


Damn. I have one of the pre production guns and have had zero issues. Me thinks they made sure the pre pro's and T&E rifles were fine and then maybe rushed to fill the rest of the orders?
Link Posted: 10/31/2016 6:06:21 PM EDT
[#19]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Damn. I have one of the pre production guns and have had zero issues. Me thinks they made sure the pre pro's and T&E rifles were fine and then maybe rushed to fill the rest of the orders?
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
35mm shooter...How many rounds did you have on the rifle before this happened?


60 rds the first time I shot it, just 5 rounds this time


Damn. I have one of the pre production guns and have had zero issues. Me thinks they made sure the pre pro's and T&E rifles were fine and then maybe rushed to fill the rest of the orders?


Certainly seems that way. So far as I can tell issues have been limited to:

1) Improper/no weld on action spring thingy
2) Undersized/out-of-spec pins on extractor

So anyone who buys an RDB, check those things! Mine (series number in the 600s) doesn't have either issue.
Link Posted: 10/31/2016 6:17:26 PM EDT
[#20]
kel-tec is not Agun for people that don't know how to take them apart and polise them up so they have A very smooth action
Link Posted: 10/31/2016 7:22:13 PM EDT
[#21]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
kel-tec is not Agun for people that don't know how to take them apart and polise them up so they have A very smooth action
View Quote


There is no situation I'd allow myself to be in where one purchases a new firearm and has to detail strip and polish it for it to have a smooth action in order to function. That's just real retarded and unacceptable.

Link Posted: 10/31/2016 8:44:18 PM EDT
[#22]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Certainly seems that way. So far as I can tell issues have been limited to:

1) Improper/no weld on action spring thingy
2) Undersized/out-of-spec pins on extractor

So anyone who buys an RDB, check those things! Mine (series number in the 600s) doesn't have either issue.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
35mm shooter...How many rounds did you have on the rifle before this happened?


60 rds the first time I shot it, just 5 rounds this time


Damn. I have one of the pre production guns and have had zero issues. Me thinks they made sure the pre pro's and T&E rifles were fine and then maybe rushed to fill the rest of the orders?


Certainly seems that way. So far as I can tell issues have been limited to:

1) Improper/no weld on action spring thingy
2) Undersized/out-of-spec pins on extractor

So anyone who buys an RDB, check those things! Mine (series number in the 600s) doesn't have either issue.


Have you heard of issues with the pin other than mine?
Link Posted: 11/1/2016 6:27:27 AM EDT
[#23]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Have you heard of issues with the pin other than mine?
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
35mm shooter...How many rounds did you have on the rifle before this happened?


60 rds the first time I shot it, just 5 rounds this time


Damn. I have one of the pre production guns and have had zero issues. Me thinks they made sure the pre pro's and T&E rifles were fine and then maybe rushed to fill the rest of the orders?


Certainly seems that way. So far as I can tell issues have been limited to:

1) Improper/no weld on action spring thingy
2) Undersized/out-of-spec pins on extractor

So anyone who buys an RDB, check those things! Mine (series number in the 600s) doesn't have either issue.


Have you heard of issues with the pin other than mine?


Yes, I'm aware of one reddit user and two people on ktog reporting the same issue.
Link Posted: 11/2/2016 3:19:24 PM EDT
[#24]
Does anyone have any detailed photos of the problem? I mean, where the weld marks ought to be located, and where they
would not be?

I am going to inspect my RDB, but am not really certain where to look.

Thanks.
Link Posted: 11/4/2016 2:31:03 AM EDT
[#25]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Certainly seems that way. So far as I can tell issues have been limited to:

1) Improper/no weld on action spring thingy
2) Undersized/out-of-spec pins on extractor

So anyone who buys an RDB, check those things! Mine (series number in the 600s) doesn't have either issue.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
35mm shooter...How many rounds did you have on the rifle before this happened?


60 rds the first time I shot it, just 5 rounds this time


Damn. I have one of the pre production guns and have had zero issues. Me thinks they made sure the pre pro's and T&E rifles were fine and then maybe rushed to fill the rest of the orders?


Certainly seems that way. So far as I can tell issues have been limited to:

1) Improper/no weld on action spring thingy
2) Undersized/out-of-spec pins on extractor

So anyone who buys an RDB, check those things! Mine (series number in the 600s) doesn't have either issue.


I have an RDB. Does anyone have some pictures pointing out what to check? I'm
honestly not sure what you guys are talking about.
Link Posted: 11/4/2016 12:50:52 PM EDT
[#26]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


I have an RDB. Does anyone have some pictures pointing out what to check? I'm
honestly not sure what you guys are talking about.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
35mm shooter...How many rounds did you have on the rifle before this happened?


60 rds the first time I shot it, just 5 rounds this time


Damn. I have one of the pre production guns and have had zero issues. Me thinks they made sure the pre pro's and T&E rifles were fine and then maybe rushed to fill the rest of the orders?


Certainly seems that way. So far as I can tell issues have been limited to:

1) Improper/no weld on action spring thingy
2) Undersized/out-of-spec pins on extractor

So anyone who buys an RDB, check those things! Mine (series number in the 600s) doesn't have either issue.


I have an RDB. Does anyone have some pictures pointing out what to check? I'm
honestly not sure what you guys are talking about.


I don't have any pictures (as my RDB doesn't have said issues), but what to check is:

1) Improper/no weld on action spring thingy: On the very front of your bolt carrier (where the piston contacts it), there should be three machined notches-- two that the  front of the charging handle drops into when folded (which one of the two depending on which side it's on), and another slightly further back, on the top. That top one is there so that a weld can be made between the carrier body and a little cup inside of the carrier that the front of the action spring bears on. In two cases I'm aware of that weld wasn't there, and the spring popped out of the front of the carrier. Below is a picture of one of these after Kel tec repaired it:



On properly done RDBs that weld should be done before parkerizing, so it will look cleaner than that in the above image.

2) Undersized/out-of-spec pins on extractor: Make sure the pin on your bolt that holds the extractor in doesn't move around too easily-- it should require some force to remove it. In a few cases it seems like either the pin was too small or the hole too large, and the pin walked out.
Link Posted: 11/4/2016 2:06:15 PM EDT
[#27]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

2) Undersized/out-of-spec pins on extractor: Make sure the pin on your bolt that holds the extractor in doesn't move around too easily-- it should require some force to remove it. In a few cases it seems like either the pin was too small or the hole too large, and the pin walked out.
View Quote


My new pin is on the way.  KT says the new ones have divots
Link Posted: 11/4/2016 3:06:52 PM EDT
[#28]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


My new pin is on the way.  KT says the new ones have divots
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:

2) Undersized/out-of-spec pins on extractor: Make sure the pin on your bolt that holds the extractor in doesn't move around too easily-- it should require some force to remove it. In a few cases it seems like either the pin was too small or the hole too large, and the pin walked out.


My new pin is on the way.  KT says the new ones have divots


Like detents? Hmm, perhaps I should see if I can order some, mine is cylindrical.
Link Posted: 11/4/2016 4:05:21 PM EDT
[#29]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


1) Improper/no weld on action spring thingy: On the very front of your bolt carrier (where the piston contacts it), there should be three machined notches-- two that the  front of the charging handle drops into when folded (which one of the two depending on which side it's on), and another slightly further back, on the top. That top one is there so that a weld can be made between the carrier body and a little cup inside of the carrier that the front of the action spring bears on. In two cases I'm aware of that weld wasn't there, and the spring popped out of the front of the carrier. Below is a picture of one of these after Kel tec repaired it:

http://i.imgur.com/qW3YlrZ.jpg

On properly done RDBs that weld should be done before parkerizing, so it will look cleaner than that in the above image.

2) Undersized/out-of-spec pins on extractor: Make sure the pin on your bolt that holds the extractor in doesn't move around too easily-- it should require some force to remove it. In a few cases it seems like either the pin was too small or the hole too large, and the pin walked out.
View Quote


Okay. I'm about to pull out my RDB and look at it. Where exactly is the weld marking shown? I'm still not certain I understand the area you're describing.
Link Posted: 11/4/2016 4:36:52 PM EDT
[#30]
Okay, after looking at mine, I kind of understand. My bolt carrier has the three notches, but I cannot see any welding. Is it hard to see
if parkerized over it? Is the welding done over the top of that top notch?
Link Posted: 11/4/2016 6:47:35 PM EDT
[#31]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


I have an RDB. Does anyone have some pictures pointing out what to check? I'm
honestly not sure what you guys are talking about.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
35mm shooter...How many rounds did you have on the rifle before this happened?


60 rds the first time I shot it, just 5 rounds this time


Damn. I have one of the pre production guns and have had zero issues. Me thinks they made sure the pre pro's and T&E rifles were fine and then maybe rushed to fill the rest of the orders?


Certainly seems that way. So far as I can tell issues have been limited to:

1) Improper/no weld on action spring thingy
2) Undersized/out-of-spec pins on extractor



So anyone who buys an RDB, check those things! Mine (series number in the 600s) doesn't have either issue.


I have an RDB. Does anyone have some pictures pointing out what to check? I'm
honestly not sure what you guys are talking about.


Some pics here:

http://www.thektog.org/forum/f119/update-my-broken-bolt-carrier-kel-tecs-fix-266656/
Link Posted: 11/4/2016 7:58:31 PM EDT
[#32]
Okay. I think I know where the weld should be. It should be in that top notch, right? Like near the orange coloring in the picture
above, right?

Well, how can I tell if mine is welded or not? I'm looking at it, but cannot tell.
Link Posted: 11/4/2016 8:14:16 PM EDT
[#33]
Meh...Kel Tec long guns are disappointing. Get them to buy it back and buy the DTA bullpup instead.
Link Posted: 11/4/2016 11:45:53 PM EDT
[#34]
Unfortunately the lighting in my house sucks, this is the best I can do:

Link Posted: 11/5/2016 12:25:13 AM EDT
[#35]
I'll never buy another keltec.

I've had a few different ones over the years, more problems than just about any guns I've ever had except for a Springfield Armory .45.  Got rid of that POS too.

Link Posted: 11/5/2016 12:30:48 AM EDT
[#36]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Unfortunately the lighting in my house sucks, this is the best I can do:

http://i.imgur.com/EEoRmBn.jpgp
View Quote


Hmm. I don't see the actual weld marking. I mean, I see the bolt carrier piston rod thing, and the three notches on
it, but I don't see the actual welding.
Link Posted: 11/5/2016 12:32:22 AM EDT
[#37]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I'll never buy another keltec.

I've had a few different ones over the years, more problems than just about any guns I've ever had except for a Springfield Armory .45.  Got rid of that POS too.

View Quote


My RDB hasn't had any issues yet, and I've put a few hundred rounds through mine. I'm very happy with it. So far, it's been
able to keep up with my Tavor in terms of performance and handling.
Link Posted: 11/5/2016 1:59:16 AM EDT
[#38]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Hmm. I don't see the actual weld marking. I mean, I see the bolt carrier piston rod thing, and the three notches on
it, but I don't see the actual welding.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Unfortunately the lighting in my house sucks, this is the best I can do:

http://i.imgur.com/EEoRmBn.jpgp


Hmm. I don't see the actual weld marking. I mean, I see the bolt carrier piston rod thing, and the three notches on
it, but I don't see the actual welding.


The weld is on the top. Notice how the top notch isn't square-- the weld isn't like a weld in a corner, where a lot of filler is used, it's to join the cylindrical body of the bolt carrier with a cup-shaped part inside of it. Heat is simply applied to the top notch until the metal flows and the two parts join.

If your notch is as flat bottomed and square as the side notches, you have a problem. If it looks melted like that it's fine.
Link Posted: 11/5/2016 8:45:21 AM EDT
[#39]
Is there any way to post pictures of mine here from my iPhone?
Link Posted: 11/5/2016 9:02:25 AM EDT
[#40]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Is there any way to post pictures of mine here from my iPhone?
View Quote


http://sli.mg
Link Posted: 11/5/2016 1:25:41 PM EDT
[#41]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


http://sli.mg
View Quote View All Quotes
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Is there any way to post pictures of mine here from my iPhone?


http://sli.mg


That's not working. Can I just email them to you, and have you post them for me?
Link Posted: 11/11/2016 9:28:44 PM EDT
[#42]
**UPDATE**

I got the RDB back just over 6 weeks from when it was sent.  Here is the repair weld:


Took it to the range and got 140 rounds through it without issue!  Everything ran smooth. Accuracy was good...generally sub 1" groups when supported at 25 yards...with magnification optic. The bolt release was not stiff. Trigger was generally light and crisp for a bullpup (trigger reset was wimpy with some travel). The handguard has a minute amount of play.

I am happy it appears things are GTG!  Kel Tec has made good. I yet may fall in love with this rifle....
Link Posted: 11/11/2016 9:40:45 PM EDT
[#43]
Good to hear

I may pick one up next year
Link Posted: 11/12/2016 7:20:12 PM EDT
[#44]
Being left handed, I've been looking at these hard! I appreciate you posting your experiences with it and may pick up a later production one once all the bugs have been worked out.
Link Posted: 11/14/2016 4:40:31 PM EDT
[#45]
UPDATE 2

When I got the rifle back from the repair... I noticed a screw on the top picatinny rail was riding high. After the trip to the range I had to tighten down 3 loose screws from the picatinny rail. The rail was loose enough to move around about a millimeter. Another small QC thingy...
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