Possible L85A3 upgrade.

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Possible L85A3 upgrade.

Posted: 9/12/2016 1:38:35 PM EDT

L85A3 prototype

Me sort of want.

Posted: 9/13/2016 12:04:05 PM EDT

[#1]

"you can put icing on a turd, but that don't make it chocolate cake"

The gun still has its inherent issues in poor manufacturing tolerances and quality control of the core gun. It amazes me the brits still throw money at this- I think at this point it is more out of pride or hubris instead of wanting to admit they just need to clean slate the rifle.

Posted: 9/13/2016 1:47:52 PM EDT

[#2]

I hear the A2 is better but all I know (as I always say) is the A1 is the only rifle I've ever had literally fall apart on me during a range session, not after heavy use, not after hard wear. As a bullpup guy and a brit it pains me to say it but the MOD should look elsewhere for their primary service rifle.

Posted: 9/14/2016 12:27:44 AM EDT

[#3]

A3? Pointless indeed....

I had an opportunity just to hold an A1
and was not impressed.

I remember reading years ago that once the shortcomings of the A1
were exposed it just about caused a political scandal in England.

Posted: 9/14/2016 3:29:38 PM EDT

[#4]

Lol upgrading guns that are at minimum 22 years old since production apparently stopped in 94. From all accounts they weren't great to begin with after that long in service they must be pretty beat to shit unless they have huge amounts just sitting in cosmo that have never seen the light of day. Just go ahead and buy something else Britain. If they really want another bullpup they can do the reverse of the old school commonwealth system of shoving their adopted equipment down their dominions throat and adopt the Thales f90

.

Posted: 10/8/2016 10:43:57 PM EDT

[#5]

Needs Moar M4.

Posted: 10/9/2016 12:00:58 PM EDT

[#6]

The Brits just need to walk away from the L85 and go with something else. Still want a Bullpup? They can adopt the AUG (like the Irish do and like the U.K. Units in the Falklands do) or step away from the platform entirely and adopt SCARS, M4s or whatever. The SA80 project was a shitshow from the very beginning.

For a great history of how the SA80 became the SA80 read "The Last Enfield" published by Collector Grade Publications. It's a crazy story of corruption and outright lies.

Posted: 10/9/2016 3:50:01 PM EDT

[#7]

Quote History

Quoted:
The Brits just need to walk away from the L85 and go with something else. Still want a Bullpup? They can adopt the AUG (like the Irish do and like the U.K. Units in the Falklands do) or step away from the platform entirely and adopt SCARS, M4s or whatever. The SA80 project was a shitshow from the very beginning.

For a great history of how the SA80 became the SA80 read "The Last Enfield" published by Collector Grade Publications. It's a crazy story of corruption and outright lies.

View Quote

I applaud them for trying to stay domestic, but there are so many better options than the L85 series produced by friendly/EU nations. I had the same alternatives come to mind. The M4, SCAR, 416, or AUG would be a far better and easier alternative as long as they're already throwing money at upgrading their small arms anyway.

Posted: 10/9/2016 7:10:10 PM EDT

[#8]

Quote History

Quoted:

I applaud them for trying to stay domestic, but there are so many better options than the L85 series produced by friendly/EU nations. I had the same alternatives come to mind. The M4, SCAR, 416, or AUG would be a far better and easier alternative as long as they're already throwing money at upgrading their small arms anyway.

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Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
The Brits just need to walk away from the L85 and go with something else. Still want a Bullpup? They can adopt the AUG (like the Irish do and like the U.K. Units in the Falklands do) or step away from the platform entirely and adopt SCARS, M4s or whatever. The SA80 project was a shitshow from the very beginning.

For a great history of how the SA80 became the SA80 read "The Last Enfield" published by Collector Grade Publications. It's a crazy story of corruption and outright lies.

I applaud them for trying to stay domestic, but there are so many better options than the L85 series produced by friendly/EU nations. I had the same alternatives come to mind. The M4, SCAR, 416, or AUG would be a far better and easier alternative as long as they're already throwing money at upgrading their small arms anyway.

National pride caused this mess to occur. It's similar to the craziness that has plagued Indian small arms and tank developement.

Posted: 10/9/2016 9:22:29 PM EDT

[#9]

I remember reading that the SAS were asked to switch to the L85 from the AUG, they stated "Thanks, but we MUST have a weapon that works!"

Posted: 10/9/2016 10:16:43 PM EDT

[#10]

When exactly did the SAS stop using AUGs and start using Diemaco ARs?

Posted: 10/9/2016 11:10:28 PM EDT

[#11]

Quote History

Quoted:
When exactly did the SAS stop using AUGs and start using Diemaco ARs?

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YEARS ago. In Bravo Two Zero Andy McNab runs down that his whole unit was running Armalites (M16s) and SAWS on their SCUD hunting mission in Desert Storm.

Posted: 10/10/2016 11:53:50 AM EDT

[#12]

Most nations that issue Bullpup weapons will issue a different weapon for thier special forces and police SWAT type units. I find it very interesting that in addition to the SAS SBS and other highly specialized units (Int Coy 14 etc) the U.K. MOD decided to issue AUGs to the Falkland Islsnd defense forces. Part of the reasoning is that the Argentines issue the AUG to thier forces and part has to be the utter unreliability of the L85 in almost all hostile environments.

Posted: 10/24/2016 5:37:49 PM EDT

[#13]

Quote History

Quoted:
I remember reading that the SAS were asked to switch to the L85 from the AUG, they stated "Thanks, but we MUST have a weapon that works!"

View Quote

OK for starters the SAS never used the L85. they used many weapon systems and even had AR/M16's before the US Army.

I carried the L85 for about 18 years both A1 and A2.

I also worked with members of the team that did the investigation when faults were suggested enough to say don't believe everything you read in the gun press.

Posted: 10/24/2016 6:37:31 PM EDT

[#14]

Having shot both the A1 and the A2, all I can say is that they should be scrapped. All of them. Fuckin' junk, and way too heavy for what they are.

If they need a bullpup, they'd be better off with the Tavor or Aug.

Frankly, they'd be better served making the M4 carbines that the SAS prefers the new standard. Hell, they could import fully assembled Colt carbines with KAC RAS and MaTech BUIS from the USA, and they would still be cheaper than this L85A3 boondoggle. Not to mention, better compatibility with most Nato forces, seeing as, y'know, a lot of our allies use M16's and M4's. Could use existing ammo and mags, too.

I'd figure they would adopt the M4 and get them made by FNH under contract; either that, or adopt the Scar-L.

Posted: 10/25/2016 10:53:11 PM EDT

[#15]

Quote History

Quoted:

OK for starters the SAS never used the L85. they used many weapon systems and even had AR/M16's before the US Army.

I carried the L85 for about 18 years both A1 and A2.

I also worked with members of the team that did the investigation when faults were suggested enough to say don't believe everything you read in the gun press.

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
I remember reading that the SAS were asked to switch to the L85 from the AUG, they stated "Thanks, but we MUST have a weapon that works!"

OK for starters the SAS never used the L85. they used many weapon systems and even had AR/M16's before the US Army.

I carried the L85 for about 18 years both A1 and A2.

I also worked with members of the team that did the investigation when faults were suggested enough to say don't believe everything you read in the gun press.

If you read what I posted....

I never said they carried the L85, I stated that they were ASKED to SWITCH to it.

M-16's BEFORE the U.S. Army