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Posted: 1/31/2016 2:26:59 PM EDT
[#1]
You won't like the answer. Just keep it.
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Posted: 1/31/2016 2:40:16 PM EDT
[#2]
Did you check for CLOSED auction values on GB?
Not list price, closed auctions. That's typically as close as you can hope to get on a simple price check. But FPNI. They don't hold value well. I checked and saw several listed around $1200 but unsold. Theres just too many better bullpups on the market right now. |
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Posted: 1/31/2016 3:22:40 PM EDT
[#3]
There's a no reserve auction on GB right now for a optic rail model ending tonight. Just watch that auction and you should have your answer. I'd say $1000-$1200 is what I'd expect to get out of it.
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Posted: 1/31/2016 4:27:22 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
There's a no reserve auction on GB right now for a optic rail model ending tonight. Just watch that auction and you should have your answer. I'd say $1000-$1200 is what I'd expect to get out of it. Given what a new AUG goes for, which comes with a warranty and available parts, I'd suspect that $1100 is high. Shoot it until it breaks, then flog it as parts on gunbroker. AJ |
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Posted: 1/31/2016 9:04:58 PM EDT
[#5]
Thanks for the input everyone.
If I may ask a follow up: How have these been holding up over the years? Any significant, reported issues since they first came out? Thanks again! |
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Posted: 1/31/2016 9:28:10 PM EDT
[#6]
To answer your second question, they don't hold up and you can't get parts. That should tell you all you need to know about msar's right now.
Save some more money and buy an AUG. If you buy a USED Steyr AUG it will still work 40 years from now. If you want a new Steyr AUG, new A3 M1's can be bought for $1650 $1595. ETA, not sure if you are buying or selling, but it seems like you're selling. Disregard the second half of what I wrote if so. |
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Posted: 1/31/2016 9:30:36 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
To answer your second question, they don't hold up and you can't get parts. That should tell you all you need to know about msar's right now. Save some more money and buy an AUG. If you buy a USED Steyr AUG it will still work 40 years from now. If you want a new Steyr AUG, new A3 M1's can be bought for $1650. Two questions: 1. Exactly, why do they not hold up? 2. Where could one find an A3 M1 for that price? |
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Posted: 1/31/2016 9:33:28 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Two questions: 1. Exactly, why do they not hold up? 2. Where could one find an A3 M1 for that price? Why, I do not know. There are a lot of problems. Ask the guy with the Ferrari's, he'd be able to tell you why I imagine... Look at gynbroker, but call Pete Athens. 
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Posted: 1/31/2016 10:33:58 PM EDT
[#9]
The MSAR mentioned above sold for $1275. I really like my MSAR E4 and have a nice stash of parts. Never have had any problems even with the scope. But if Steyr would make a NATO stock for us lefties I would sell the MSAR and parts in a heart beat even for a lost. I don't see that happen, so I'll keep what I got.....
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Posted: 1/31/2016 10:56:40 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The MSAR mentioned above sold for $1275. I really like my MSAR E4 and have a nice stash of parts. Never have had any problems even with the scope. But if Steyr would make a NATO stock for us lefties I would sell the MSAR and parts in a heart beat even for a lost. I don't see that happen, so I'll keep what I got..... That's crazy. Way too expensive for an msar when you can get a Steyr AUG for $200 more. I talked to Pete, he's selling them for $1595. A brand new M1 with rail for that price is nearly unheard of. The cheapest I ever bought an AUG, (and I've bought a lot of AUG's) was $1625. I'm almost tempted to buy another... |
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Posted: 1/31/2016 11:11:21 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The MSAR mentioned above sold for $1275. There's one born every day - maybe OP can find another one? IIRC the A3s were closed out at $1299 or something crazy like that. I walked past several BNIB MSARs for $900-ish when they went under. |
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Posted: 1/31/2016 11:15:30 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
There's one born every day - maybe OP can find another one? IIRC the A3s were closed out at $1299 or something crazy like that. I walked past several BNIB MSARs for $900-ish when they went under. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The MSAR mentioned above sold for $1275. There's one born every day - maybe OP can find another one? IIRC the A3s were closed out at $1299 or something crazy like that. I walked past several BNIB MSARs for $900-ish when they went under. I saw some at cdnn for $1500 when the A3's were let go. |
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Posted: 1/31/2016 11:24:49 PM EDT
[#13]
They either hold up or they don't. Within a couple hundred rounds you'll know which it is. If it is a Gen 4 STG, then you're probably ok, the lower the serial number the better. If it's an E4 or the STG-E4 (or whatever they called the last version released), then it's a crap shoot. If it has an optic, likewise...it's a crap shoot.
If you're a collector and have to have all things AUG pattern, it's a decent addition to the collection. However, if you're looking for anything other than that, even a range toy, save your change and get a real AUG; you won't be disappointed. MSAR died a horrible and well deserved death and finding parts is eventually going to be like finding unicorns... |
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Posted: 1/31/2016 11:41:32 PM EDT
[#14]
I have two Augs and one msar. The Msar can go through extractors pretty well. I tried to sell it but my buyer flaked out. So now it resides above my reloading bench.
I treat her gently and am careful with her; mag dumps aren't done here. Thanks to maleante's comment I may soon own three Augs. |
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Posted: 1/31/2016 11:47:52 PM EDT
[#15]
My MSAR is an E4 conversion that was offered. I'm a lefty and like being able to use GI mags. I guess I'm lucky that i haven't had any problem yet. I came across a huge stash of parts including an extra barrel real reasonable. The prices Ratworx's got for their MSAR parts on GD I could sell my parts alone and just about pay for a Steyr.
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Posted: 1/31/2016 11:52:00 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My MSAR is an E4 conversion that was offered. I'm a lefty and like being able to use GI mags. I guess I'm lucky that i haven't had any problem yet. I came across a huge stash of parts including an extra barrel real reasonable. The prices Ratworx's got for their MSAR parts on GD I could sell my parts alone and just about pay for a Steyr. You could cut out the ejection port on a NATO stock and buy the metal and plastic cover pieces for the right side ejection port. That would get you the NATO stock AUG in left hand. I have an OD green NATO stock and you can see moulding marks where the ejection port is supposed to be. 
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Posted: 2/1/2016 12:22:33 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The cheapest I ever bought an AUG, (and I've bought a lot of AUG's) was $1625. I'm almost tempted to buy another... That much ? 
My first AUG was $565.00 It was shipped to Fleming Firearms in early 1986 and turned into a Registered Receiver machine gun, total cost of gun, shipping, and conversion......$825.00 
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Posted: 2/1/2016 5:06:37 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Two questions: 1. Exactly, why do they not hold up? Qualtiy control issues, especially on the last few guns that were shipped. As they expanded rapidly from success/popularity the QC dropped, and near the end Tony Marfione eventually just started shipping guns with "floor sweepings" parts- whatever they had in the shop. He also had a tendency to change/try new materials without really proving it out- happened on a batch of bolts that all started breaking. Most guns run fine with the early guns typically being best, some will have the extractors go bad, and a small amount will just be problem children (bad trunnion machining, brittle bolts). The problem is you really never know which one you have until the gun has run a couple of hundred rounds. Not such a big issue when MSAR was still in business, send for warranty repair and back in business. Problem is MSAR is now out of business, so no warranty repairs/spares available anymore. 2. Where could one find an A3 M1 for that price? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
To answer your second question, they don't hold up and you can't get parts. That should tell you all you need to know about msar's right now. Save some more money and buy an AUG. If you buy a USED Steyr AUG it will still work 40 years from now. If you want a new Steyr AUG, new A3 M1's can be bought for $1650. Two questions: 1. Exactly, why do they not hold up? Qualtiy control issues, especially on the last few guns that were shipped. As they expanded rapidly from success/popularity the QC dropped, and near the end Tony Marfione eventually just started shipping guns with "floor sweepings" parts- whatever they had in the shop. He also had a tendency to change/try new materials without really proving it out- happened on a batch of bolts that all started breaking. Most guns run fine with the early guns typically being best, some will have the extractors go bad, and a small amount will just be problem children (bad trunnion machining, brittle bolts). The problem is you really never know which one you have until the gun has run a couple of hundred rounds. Not such a big issue when MSAR was still in business, send for warranty repair and back in business. Problem is MSAR is now out of business, so no warranty repairs/spares available anymore. 2. Where could one find an A3 M1 for that price? Ratworx, Pete Athens, Gunbroker. |
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Posted: 2/1/2016 9:19:48 PM EDT
[#19]
I sure wish Ratworx would do a run of hybrid bolts for the MSAR..... and a few 20/20 trigger packs would be nice. I assume it's wishful thinking.
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Posted: 2/1/2016 9:24:38 PM EDT
[#20]
My msar has had 2 oe broken bolts and one ratwork broken bolt sleeve.
Over 10,000 rounds and never really cleaned. Gen 4 stg556. I like her.
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Posted: 2/1/2016 9:29:12 PM EDT
[#21]
Spoke to Aaron at Ratworx last week and he is still planning on doing the hybrid Msar bolts. Also has some Msar spare parts coming in soon.
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Posted: 2/1/2016 10:51:55 PM EDT
[#22]
Aaron will take care of us MSAR holders.
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Posted: 2/1/2016 11:08:25 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Thanks for the input everyone. If I may ask a follow up: How have these been holding up over the years? Any significant, reported issues since they first came out? Thanks again! I've got an MSAR E4 that's eaten somewhere around 5000 rounds without a single issue. |
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Posted: 2/2/2016 6:00:25 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Spoke to Aaron at Ratworx last week and he is still planning on doing the hybrid Msar bolts. Also has some Msar spare parts coming in soon. I'm on a waiting list for one, mine is still ok and I have a spare bolt sleeve, spare complete bolt and spare extractor, I intend on having it in working condition either by the time I sell it or when my wife does after I'm worm food. |
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Posted: 2/2/2016 10:02:13 AM EDT
[#25]
Bolts and bolt sleeves seem to be the most common failure points on the MSAR rifles, so those would be the most important spare parts to have on hand. I don't really have a ton of rounds through my MSAR but so far it has held up fine.
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Posted: 2/2/2016 4:21:24 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Bolts and bolt sleeves seem to be the most common failure points on the MSAR rifles, so those would be the most important spare parts to have on hand. I don't really have a ton of rounds through my MSAR but so far it has held up fine. There are also the ones with soft receivers out there too. The factory fix for those seemed to be milling out the damaged area. AJ |
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Posted: 2/2/2016 4:54:09 PM EDT
[#27]
Add trunnion, carrier, and bolt control parts failures to the list.
And bad optics, and problems with rails attached to the stock pulling out. Probably some other things that I'm forgetting... Add all the known possible failures, throw in the fact that MSAR is out of the firearms business for good, and the fact you can't get warranty service or parts and buying/owning an MSAR is unquestionably a losing venture. Heck, at this point a parts AR of questionable origin is a better deal and investment than an MSAR. |
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Posted: 2/3/2016 2:38:39 AM EDT
[#28]
For me it was a bad factory optic & peening on the trunnion. STG556 GenIV
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Posted: 2/3/2016 1:43:16 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Bolts and bolt sleeves seem to be the most common failure points on the MSAR rifles, so those would be the most important spare parts to have on hand. I don't really have a ton of rounds through my MSAR but so far it has held up fine. To be fair, a friend of mine has been shooting his main AUG for 20 years and has broken a bolt sleeve and firing pin. Personally, my AUG broke its trunnion. One of the locking points in the steel trunnion chipped out. Never caused a malfunction and I found it while cleaning. Steyr USA replaced it under warranty. AJ |
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Posted: 2/4/2016 7:05:51 PM EDT
[#30]
Had 2,
Both were Gen1 STG's. Sold one to a friend and he has had zero problems as of today. The other I converted to a Gen2 stock (sans Forward asst.) zero problems for about 5,000 rds. Had a broken bolt sleeve tooth. Had to return to MSAR ($45 shipping) for warranty work. Then had a cracked bolt carrier ($49 shipping) for warranty work. Then I decided to covert it to a E4 (ar mag) (another $49 shipping) on top of a $500 E4 stock and receiver cut at MSAR. Then had to return it for a new trunnion (another $49 shipping).... Ran great for a year and then all of a sudden the bolt carrier was eating the feed lips off of all my Pmags. Even gouged my GI mags badly. Had to retun it for repair once again (yep $49 shipping) and got it back and ran good for about a week and did it again. I called Wendel at MSAR and he said to wait for 2 weeks to call back for a RMA#. 2 weeks later I get a email saying MSAR is closing its doors and any warranty is gone. I drove straight to my gun dealer and traded it even for a stainless Ruger Scout rifle in .556. FUCK MSAR and everything they stood for. |
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Posted: 2/4/2016 9:43:48 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Had 2, Both were Gen1 STG's. Sold one to a friend and he has had zero problems as of today. The other I converted to a Gen2 stock (sans Forward asst.) zero problems for about 5,000 rds. Had a broken bolt sleeve tooth. Had to return to MSAR ($45 shipping) for warranty work. Then had a cracked bolt carrier ($49 shipping) for warranty work. Then I decided to covert it to a E4 (ar mag) (another $49 shipping) on top of a $500 E4 stock and receiver cut at MSAR. Then had to return it for a new trunnion (another $49 shipping).... Ran great for a year and then all of a sudden the bolt carrier was eating the feed lips off of all my Pmags. Even gouged my GI mags badly. Had to retun it for repair once again (yep $49 shipping) and got it back and ran good for about a week and did it again. I called Wendel at MSAR and he said to wait for 2 weeks to call back for a RMA#. 2 weeks later I get a email saying MSAR is closing its doors and any warranty is gone. I drove straight to my gun dealer and traded it even for a stainless Ruger Scout rifle in .556. FUCK MSAR and everything they stood for. WOW 
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Posted: 2/4/2016 10:08:00 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Had 2, Both were Gen1 STG's. Sold one to a friend and he has had zero problems as of today. The other I converted to a Gen2 stock (sans Forward asst.) zero problems for about 5,000 rds. Had a broken bolt sleeve tooth. Had to return to MSAR ($45 shipping) for warranty work. Then had a cracked bolt carrier ($49 shipping) for warranty work. Then I decided to covert it to a E4 (ar mag) (another $49 shipping) on top of a $500 E4 stock and receiver cut at MSAR. Then had to return it for a new trunnion (another $49 shipping).... Ran great for a year and then all of a sudden the bolt carrier was eating the feed lips off of all my Pmags. Even gouged my GI mags badly. Had to retun it for repair once again (yep $49 shipping) and got it back and ran good for about a week and did it again. I called Wendel at MSAR and he said to wait for 2 weeks to call back for a RMA#. 2 weeks later I get a email saying MSAR is closing its doors and any warranty is gone. I drove straight to my gun dealer and traded it even for a stainless Ruger Scout rifle in .556. FUCK MSAR and everything they stood for. Damn...I thought they fucked with me about the magazines... I've said it before and I'll say it again; the concept and design for the STG/E4 are sound, and the new AR stock is outstanding (other than it wasn't properly sanded and finished...). The only problem was the owner and anyone with the surname "Marfione". When they started to cut corners and constantly changed specs, they introduced too many variables for any sort of viable QC and thus reliability tanked. If someone would take over production and build for quality rather than price point, I think it would be a viable product...five years ago. Today? I just can't see it competing with the current crop of offerings because if built for quality it would be close to an AUG, price wise, which would remove most of the incentive to buy it. It's a shame. I have one of the new AR mag stocks (they changed the helicoils for something that was much better) just collecting dust. |
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Posted: 2/6/2016 5:18:44 PM EDT
[#33]
I have a gen II rifle AND an E4 stock collecting dust!
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Posted: 2/6/2016 7:14:13 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have a gen II rifle AND an E4 stock collecting dust! Sell that stuff, buy another AUG. Have peace of mind for your progeny. |
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Posted: 2/7/2016 12:40:03 AM EDT
[#35]
I've got two MSAR E4s and haven't had any problems with either. I also have a stash of parts and a hybrid bolt for each but I haven't installed those yet since the originals are still running fine.
Shame that TM screwed a good thing up. He should have stuck to standardizing on using the same AUG part specs, and should haven't tried to make his own mags. But the E4 AR stock was a good move. |
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Posted: 2/7/2016 9:01:46 PM EDT
[#36]
Speaking of E4s, I wonder what optic Tomac ever settled on? He was swapping them out every couple months there for a while.
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Posted: 2/7/2016 10:03:18 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Sell that stuff, buy another AUG. Have peace of mind for your progeny. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I have a gen II rifle AND an E4 stock collecting dust! Sell that stuff, buy another AUG. Have peace of mind for your progeny. I almost had it all gone but my buyer flaked. I guess I should relist it all. |
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Posted: 2/8/2016 12:56:55 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Speaking of E4s, I wonder what optic Tomac ever settled on? He was swapping them out every couple months there for a while. I think he got out of MSAR/AUGs totally. Now I see him talking about ARs. |
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Posted: 2/8/2016 2:24:16 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think he got out of MSAR/AUGs totally. Now I see him talking about ARs. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Speaking of E4s, I wonder what optic Tomac ever settled on? He was swapping them out every couple months there for a while. I think he got out of MSAR/AUGs totally. Now I see him talking about ARs. Yeah looks like he moved on from that fleet of microtechs. & now he uses & praises the Meprolight Tru-Dot RDS (if I remember correctly) |
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Posted: 2/8/2016 8:32:03 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yeah looks like he moved on from that fleet of microtechs. & now he uses & praises the Meprolight Tru-Dot RDS (if I remember correctly) Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Speaking of E4s, I wonder what optic Tomac ever settled on? He was swapping them out every couple months there for a while. I think he got out of MSAR/AUGs totally. Now I see him talking about ARs. Yeah looks like he moved on from that fleet of microtechs. & now he uses & praises the Meprolight Tru-Dot RDS (if I remember correctly) Cool. I figured he would eventually retire the MSAR given the lack of company support now. |
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Posted: 2/9/2016 9:33:54 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Thanks for the input everyone. If I may ask a follow up: How have these been holding up over the years? Any significant, reported issues since they first came out? Thanks again! |
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Posted: 2/9/2016 9:39:10 AM EDT
[#42]
Buy yourself a hybrid bolt when Ratworx does another run (call and get on the list!)
Also try an find spare bolt cam pins, as those tend to break....I broke the original recently and was able to fin two spare pins. So now I have two complete bolts; 1 original MSAR and one Ratworx Hybrid, and one spare pin that will fit either. Oh, also get a spare bolt sleeve if Ratworx has any of those as well. |
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