Reading that made me literally lol.

Amen!  I love how everyone beats up on Kel-Tec having Gen2 guns all the time, yet it's pretty clearly a fact of life that going to production is a LOT different than prototyping and products evolve (usually for the better).  Glock's 4 generations of "perfection", Ruger's recent Mark IV "incident", etc.... show it's not isolated to the "little guys".  

Interesting to see first-hand evidence that DT isn't immune to this either.

This is why people shouldn't do preorders on this stuff.


This is a pretty common scenario. Get smarter people and quit financing this stuff.

Because they deserve to be kicked mercilessly over and over and over due to their deceit and lies. They could have been straight up about it. Nope, let's keep baiting the hooks with promises they knew they couldn't deliver on.

And then they decided it was time for an update after the Tavor .308 was announced. Huh, strange coincidence...

I hope they never recover. They don't deserve to.

And this is mine......

I need to adjust my sarcasm meter.......

I really thought he was joking, and was getting ready to compliment him......

He is only into "concrete" information not speculation.

LOL Glassdoor

Sooner or later they are going to go Tango Uniform on this and there is going to be a run on the bank... You seriously think John Arthur Young has the money tucked away in the bank to refund everyone's deposit in full?  Or, to put it another way, there aren't enough lifeboats on this Desert Titanic... get your money/deposit out now (while you still can).

My free advice, worth what you paid for it.

Well, so far there's concrete information they aren't releasing it anytime soon.

Wish it would be, but oh well. Didn't invest in it anyways so I have no stake in whether they do or not.

Has Desert Tech put out any "concrete" information yet?

Yup
They're not ready yet

They were going to. They had planned to, but an outside company they had contracted with to provide the lime for the mix had a labor strike. Then the mixer wasn't painted to the right specs by another outside vendor. Then another outside vendor failed to deliver the forms on time. Long story short, the concrete like the MDR is never happening.

Attached File

Did they hire Ja Rule to run the business?

Here for the thread title update

This was funny and better written than any of the DT press releases so far. Have a cookie good sir!

Honestly, I don't give a jack f about this rifle. I don't even understand why people are hyped about this rifle when it has never been put throughout a real test. Give it to the battlefield vegas. I will be surprised if they last half a day.

Seriously, there are already plenty of battle proven bullpups to choose from.

There really isn't anything that sets this MDR crap apart from other bullpups.

If I'm missing something please tell me because I swear these desert tech people are more focused about ambidextrity over any other aspects of a  gun.

I'm seriously so fed up hearing them and all the other guys at shot show saying "ambidextrous."

Just say it once fss, "this gun is ambidextrous." Don't tell me this gun has an ambi safety, ambi charging handle, ambi mag release, ambi bullshit.

Give us the real information, what is the accuracy, what is theuzzle velocity, how is the felt recoil compared to other platforms, what is the service life, what are the materials used.



I hope Lithgow doesn't pull the same shit though but they have been... fk..

Cheers to that.

I too think the worship of these features has become ridiculous.

Give me a proven platform anyday over some boutique gun that is solely riding on the coattails of its bolt action predecessor.

I understand the hope people have regarding its accuracy, but lets be honest here.  The accuracy potential is the main attribute that DT could flaunt in order to brag about their product.  It wouldnt take them being in full production to do so.  The fact that they choose to not shove accuracy videos in our face speaks volumes about what is going on.

I hope I am wrong, I really do.  But I am a show me something guy and they have done absolutely nothing.

Yep, gotta see it to believe it.

Have to disagree. I'm ecstatic I was able to place a pre-paid order. The price went up about 6 months after I placed my pre paid order. I'm glad I made the pre paid order. I can wait for the release of the MDR. As a friend once said "I have more time than money." But, those who want one and are waiting till after the release will be paying the premium of the price increase.

Yeah, that's the only thing you wrote that makes any sense. It's worth every bit of -0-

OK, I'll clear up your obviously ignorant statements for you. Besides some of the other features that I'm mildly interested in, the big selling point for me is the fact the MDR will be one of just a few bullpup rifles chambered in .308 caliber. I have already purchased and gotten rid of the KelTec RFB, so that bullpup .308 is out and unlike what you wrote is not battle proven either (which by the way, makes no difference to me). I don't like the looks of the K&M M17 .308 bullpup. That leaves the MDR. Again, I'll spell it out for you. .3-0-8 There are not "...already plenty of battle proven bullpups to choose from." There are a few and none of them are chambered in .308. The FAMAS, the Steyr Aug, and the British SA80 are three of the main bullpup rifles (still not .308) that are battle proven. There are others from more obscure countries. But, the FAMAS and the SA80 aren't available in semi-auto for public consumption in the US, as far as I know.

Oh, and I forgot to mention, I don't care about ambidexterity in a rifle. One of the few features of the MDR that I want is that innovative, forward ejecting, small ejection port cover. The trigger and magazine release that are similar to the AR15 trigger and magazine release are also positive features. Glad to hear that you're not getting an MDR  because that explains all your ignorant and negative comments about a rifle that hasn't even been released. That's so fair and open minded of you.

Totally understood. We just have some differences in what we are looking for.
For me the most important part for an auto loading rifle is the longevity, then modularity. Don't get me wrong, a 308 modular bullpup sounds like heaven. If this configuration was available for AUG, I'd sell my car to buy it.
This desert tech is another story. Would you buy this rifle if this shit breaks after 500 rounds? How about the warranty? Seeing as how this company has been screwing over many fans it shows how great their customer service is going to be.
Now, feel free to correct because I don't own their guns or know how they do things.

I'm a bit surprised that someone who describes themselves as having "more time than money" is happy about having his money tied up for months (years?) with no return on his investment.  Even if I had more money than time, *I* would be unhappy about having my money tied up with no return and increasingly nebulous chances of getting any return.  I'm not slamming those who pre-paid, but the rationale of "I don't have much money, so I gave away the use of a big chunk of it for ages" makes my head hurt.  I at least understand the GD gazillionaires won't miss a few grand, but I guess everyone views money differently.




I do sincerely hope the MDR succeeds, and if so, I may well be one of those "paying the premium of the price increase" (for a Gen2 of course) but at this point with the litany of mistruths and misdirection, I think many of us believe it's only a matter of time before there's some apologetic mangled English announcement about a cancellation of the project.

Click To View Spoiler

Or not, because it ends up being terrible.

This.  Look, a fine gunsmith can be way the Hell off in his time estimate, because he's also an artist, and his work itself is relatively simple in that it is one task at a time. He controls and is responsible for every step, and he alone.  

The manufacture of a complex machine on large production - is another matter.  That requires not only engineering talent combined with the flair of a true craftsman who knows how to get the design and touch juuust right, but also the talent of a project manager capable of assembling the complex macro-scale components of suppliers, finishers, and all the other human involved cogs of a much more complicated machine - the machine of making them by the dozen - every day.  And the failure to do that right, usually means a failure of the entire project, regardless of how amazing the prototype was.  And what we are seeing here, is a failure at project management.  That's a big deal.  Costs either run completely out of control (resulting in a failed project,  and a few initial owners with an useless museum piece they can't dare use in the practical applications they envisaged for it); or corner's cut/communicated from some of those other cogs/subcontractors/partners - with a product that fails to meet expectations.  Between the missed dates, combined with the misleading communications and updates, combined with rumor of former employee's speaking ill (GlassDoor)... yea.    If I were a VC investor in this, I would be looking hard for an exit strategy and recover whatever the Hell I could.  And those who have pre-purchased, are approach real risk of getting nothing at all, is my opinion.

Anyone who expects this product to actually be a mass produced long-term product of the quality we have been promised, is taking a long bet.   Don't get me wrong - I WANT this to be a smashing success.  I want MDR's in every gun store, retailing for $2100 and flying off the shelves, with people posting updates taunting the rest of us on a daily basis.  I really really want that.   But would I bet on that at this stage?  Not a chance.  I'll pay the $1000 upcharge, if it comes to that; but it won't because we'll be back to museum pieces from a defunct company with no hope of spare parts, should they actually try to run it at $3k for one.  

That's just my take on it.

Honestly, with the downturn in the gun industry right now, the delays, the price, and the announcement of the .308 Tavor, I have little hope for the MDR.

Rifles that were shit hot a year ago and were selling for inflated prices, or even MSRP are sitting on the shelf collecting dust, even at cost or close to it.

The market for the MDR is a small, small, slice of the overall pie, of which most firearms consumers haven't even heard of it. Once the .308 Tavor comes out, with both rifles side by side, most consumers would choose the Tavor as they are familiar with IMI.

Really with the newly announced weight of the MDR (well not newly announced but you know what I mean) the only hope it has to compete against the 308 Tavor and even the K&M is to deliver a great trigger out of the box and also be sub MOA which is something I'm sure the other two won't be. Having said that I'd rather have a 2 MOA rifle that actually exists than one that doesn't.

Well shit just go buy an RDB ......then you all can complain about a company rushing a product into production and using customers for R&D......but at least you will have an idea if "it could be" a great rifle....and if the RFB is a good example free updates to chassis as problems are addresses.     In my limited experience even the AR didn't become reliable in civilian hands till around 2004 , now seeing one have non user issues is rare, but seeing so many issues before 2004 made me a fan of AK's (I'm back on the AR wagon now)...as for DT my hope is they can produce a working product , but I won't slight them for taking the time to make it right.......then again I didn't put money down for one.

I just wonder how many they will need to sell to break even.

There are way, wayyyy more people whom had reliable AR's before 2004. Even my Model 1 sales parts kit AR I assembled in 2003 was trouble free. Cannot say that about the 4 AK pattern rifles I have owned over the years.

As far as the MDR debacle goes, it reminds me of good old Geoff Herring and the Ares Shrike. What was it, 10 years from the time people made deposits to the time that they got their uppers? With Desert Tech I do not have quite as much hope though.

I have a 1960's SP1 that has worked pretty reliably for me for a while

Agree with you 100% on the Ares analogy the difference is these days and with this type of product (i.e. a whole rifle not just an upper) is that the world moves on so much quicker. In 10 years time the MDR will be antiquated tech (joking, well kinda).

I don't think people have problem with the MDR...I don't...I actually really like the design...the problem is DT and its leadership team. They have no reason to be in those positions as they cannot do several things properly:

1. Write the English language
2. Forecast operations
3. Marketing
4. Delivering on promises

DT should have just stuck with their bolt action rifles.

Or not even made
Or not what it was promised to be
etc etc etc

Every once in a while one goes real bad and people lose their money.

@tbannister

Your integrity is being called out Here.

Update

"Parts in transit?"


From where?
UPS two day from anywhere lower 48

What a bad joke

They're probably "in transit" from China or New York state. Then they'll be lost in transit or sit in customs for months.

I wish I had a facebook, I'd like to tell them they're full of shit.

Also, which parts? Is it the fixed "ejection chutes"?

Reading this thread is part of my daily amusement. Maybe one day, many moons from now it will be a successful platform with parts abundant.

Is this some of the  "concrete" information everybody been talking about?....

Understood. Different strokes.

For myself, I don't consider any of my firearms purchases as "investments." For my purposes they're new additions to my collection which are all purchased for self defense/home defense as well as target shooting. I never purchase a firearm with the intention of selling it as an investment. In fact, when I've found a more interesting item or an upgrade item I will sell a firearm that I am no longer interested in to finance a new project gun (usually at a loss like I did with my Tavor and KelTec RFB).

If I hadn't spent this money on the MDR (which is one of my grail guns - a bullpup rifle chambered in .308 caliber with the features that I want) I would probably have squandered it on something less desirable to me. Waiting two years for this rifle is nothing (it's been 16 months so far since I placed my pre-paid order). I'll wait one year more if necessary (if I get it on July 31 as stated on their website I'll be ecstatic, but, I'm thinking that it is more realistic to expect it by end of September or October). Say what you will about Desert Tech because of all the delays, but, I don't care. I'm not reading their updates because I don't participate in Facebook (none of my money is going to support that communist Zuckerberg) and the only updates I read are what others post on here and Bullpup forum. I guess that's why I don't get so worked up about the delays. I keep track to see if anyone has heard any news, but, other than that, don't really enjoy all the complaining. I don't enjoy delays either, but, if I felt as negatively as those who complain, then I would just get a refund and stop participating in the MDR forums altogether.

Buying a gun, using it, then selling it to recoup money to finance another purchase is looking at it as an investment.  Not a good investment by any means, but it was better than spending the money on cheetos.

It is an investment, what you described of yourself, because you bought it knowing that, worst case scenario, you could sell it at a small loss if you did not think it was the coolest thing ever.

If you would buy a $2000.00 gun today, knowing that you could not sell to recoup any money on it for a long time than that would be an investment.

Regular firearms are hardly an investment, so your m.o. is not unique, that is how everyone thinks.

Yep!  Put another way, the problem is paying $2000 for a gun 16 months ago that you cannot even get, let alone sell to recoup any money from.  That's an investment - not an appreciating investment certainly!  

My point was that "Pay big bucks now, hope for rifle in the future" isn't typical behavior for someone who describes themselves as not having a lot of excess money.  I understand, I can even sympathize, but it does seem odd.  The pre-order "buyer" has his/her money tied up with nothing to show for it and no way to get that money back - even at a loss by selling the item... that's what I would call a "gamble".

Also....
This last paragraph of yours is exactly what promotes the conditions to allow a fiasco like DT's to actually grow legs and become ridiculous.

The premise of "I do not care about accountability" is really enlightening.  Please tell me more about how we should just back down and continue to get pushed around by bullshit excuses.  Maybe, if we are lucky, we could even operate that same way politically and all of our problems would disappear because instead of worrying about them we could just sweep them under the rug.