I have been looking at 3" shotguns for about a month now.  Stoeger, Rem, Win, Tristar, Charles Daly, Benelli, Beretta, and random others.  Use would be predator, home, and possibly bird if I don't bring my Miroku A5 home.  I've been thinking auto, but I can't stop thinking about the KSG.  Some people hate them, some people love them.  I like bullpups, and I like the idea of changing ammo with a switch and a pump.



Are they GTG?  What mods etc to make them better?

I've had the opportunity to shoot 2 different examples, and on both of them, the action would randomly seize up and require an excessive amount of force to be applied to it to cycle the action after firing a round. Doesn't do it every shot, but if you load it up, almost guarantee that it will do it at least once before you empty both mag tubes.

Never fired one.  Tagged for interest.  

I do know its reputation is a bit spotty.  From what I can tell in 3-gun, magazine capacity dominates, and everyone who shoots it makes sure they have the longest magazine they can.  Sometimes to the extent of goofy arrangements where the magazine tube is a foot longer than the barrel.  With that much priority - still nobody had a KSG.

The Gen 2s are GTG. They fixed most of the action issues (as least from what I have seen in the last 5-7 gen 2s). My friend had a Gen 1 that had issues, but my gen 2 out of the box was flawless. Even so, I had my local gunsmith slick up the action just to give it a really nice feel to it. I've had 0 issues before of after the work. About 100 round before and 250+ after.

Look for the slots on the top of the magazine tubes for a Gen 2. Not sure if they did anything after that as I stopped reading about them online once I got mine. I'd say go for it. If it doesn't run right, KelTec should take care of it for you anyway.

I thought they were cool until I started reading about how often someone shoots themselves in the left hand. Not that interested any more.

Be careful you don't use a foregrip on the pump's plastic rails; they have been known to break from the recoil forces and send your hand flying in front of the muzzle.

It's a poorly designed shotgun.

The one I shot functioned fine but was downright painful to shoot.

Not a Kel Tec fan, so I don't have any ego to bruise if one decides to buy one, or not.


I have 2 KSGs. Both Gen2. I bought 1, and my daughter liked it so much that I bought one for her. Neither of us have had any issues- cheap ammo, 2 3/4in, 3in, low brass, high brass, slugs, pretty much everything, except 1 failure to feed because my daughter short-stroked it.




I polished the feed tubes, barrel and chamber before we shot them. I opened them up, cleaned them, and lubed them, before we shot them. After about 100 rounds apiece, I greased the obvious wear areas. I then replaced the plastic followers with teflon coated aluminum followers, but I suppose that I didn't have to.




We both shot over 200 rounds apiece before we added an AFG to each one, and not once did we feel like our precious hands were in jeopardy of flying in front of the muzzle. You wanna know why? Because we're not morons who treat a 12ga shotgun like a toy, preferring to be deliberate with every rack/shot. By "deliberate", I mean fast followups, but not crazy fast. It's not a machinegun, ya know?




Now, I don't care if you buy it or not, but if you're going to base your decision on the backwoods commandos who try to see how fast that they can get 14/15/?? rounds downrange (without any AFG or handstop, sheesh!), and forget that they're handling a lethal weapon, with the result of blowing their hand off, then I'm thinking that you know you better than I know you, and you should probably stick to something with a nice, long barrel. Seriously, who in their right mind doesn't function test the weapon and get familiar with it before screaming like Rambo and letting loose on imaginary zombie hoards?




If my little ballerina can handle unloading a couple of boxes through it without feeling tenderized, then I'm thinking most men can handle it.




The only issue that I see, which is easily rectified by wearing gloves, is that the AFG or handstop can pound the hell out of your hand, but then, all manly men have tactical gloves, right?




Nothing's broken after firing countless rounds downrange, but I can't attest to how durable they will be over the long run. They do feel sort of "cheap", but then, Glocks feel sort of cheap to me, so...




TL;DR: I like mine. It just works. My daughter likes hers. It just works.


 

Insane recoil/muzzle blast.... Shooting buckshot

That's a lot of judgement upon fellows who are missing hands.  This year for the first time I've tried shooting some 3-gun.  Those guys run at some pretty incredible speeds - for purpose.  If you want to compete, you have to be damned fast.  Yet here and elsewhere, everyone seems to think Keltec hand blown guys are some mouth breathers who couldn't figure out that they weren't suppose to put their hands in front of their shotgun.  I'm pretty sure they got that memo already, but shit happens.  And with this unit, when something failed or fumbled, folks found their hands in front of their muzzles, with a shotgun that had an unexpected weight shift too.  Shit happens - the insult to injury folks have about it is a bit unfair to me.

In any event, I think this would be a much better shotgun if it were semi-auto, particularly since the end of the muzzle is so close to the end of the slide grip, which apparently can fail (or at least your hand can slip) - and momentum can carry your hand in front of the muzzle as the unsupported shotgun nosedives down.  If it were semi-auto, this would be less of a safety issue.  I also think it's pretty overpriced, for a pump.

 
I stand humbly corrected. The competition angle never crossed my mind. I certainly wouldn't recommend an unmodified KSG for competition.On the other hand, I don't compete, so I wouldn't be in the position to recommend anything for competition.

I have a about 300 rounds down range in my gen 2. Never have had one issue with it. I also use a VFG. Has not come loose during the time I have used it. I have found that not much force is needed to rack the slide. It is very accurate with slugs. It will leave you with a smile and a sore shoulder.

I have a few boxes through my genII without issues. It does take some force on the slide and as mentioned above don't short stroke it.

No issues with mine at all , I highly recommend the extended length magazine selector upgrade

I was interested in a KSG until I started reading about this issue.  Like Foolish_Mortal, at first I thought it was someone with a case of the stupids, but then I started reading Kel-Tec's responses when people suggested they redesign the forestock to add a larger lip and to use a metal rail...both of which they dismissed as "not necessary".  First, KT's spotty reliability out of the box until the second or third generation is a strike against their production quality, but this is a callous disregard for what could be considered a design fault and for me, that's the nail in the coffin.  I really would like one of these, but when parts are prone to breakage that then result in grievous bodily injury, I just can't justify it.

Love my Gen2 - it doesn't like "gentle" so rack it like you mean it and everything is great.  KT sells a little plastic handstop for the front.  Never installed mine, never felt threatened by its absence, but should be an easy "fix" if it concerns you.

I'll only comment that most of the hate seems to come from folks who don't have them.

I assume you refer to putting a VFG on the plastic forend/pump?  I don't know what KT's position on that is, but I'm pretty sure KT doesn't sell a VFG for the KSG and I don't think I'd be comfortable with that.  I don't run a VFG on mine.  If I were to, I would seriously consider a fairly long metal riser "rail" to distribute the VFG forces.  Frankly, I'm not sure the folks who make the VFGs expect them to be used to rack shotguns - they're not generally sold as "Vertical Fore-Rackers" are they?

Personally I'd say the fact that the rail is plastic is a pretty clear indication it's not made for operating the pump, it's made to stick lights/lasers/handstops/whatever on... Honestly I feel like beating KT over it may not be completely fair - one could argue they should "know" it "might get (mis)used that way" but now we're off in the weeds.  Likewise, everyone would complain about the cost/weight/comfort if KT had made a metal forend and be after Magpul/Tapco/Mattel to make a "polymer" one....

Redesigning now, to meet the requests of those who've seen the injuries/been injured, might be seen as admitting a design fault and opening themselves up to multiple lawsuits.

I don't own one.  Won't ever.  Don't need it.  I have some long riot guns, if I needed a shotgun for an attack of gangs of pitpulls, or something similar.  In the house I prefer a pistol, or the XM177 clone.  Outside the house I usually carry the pistol, or a 16" AR15.

I know a guy who bought one a few months back.  He had no issues with it the first weekend and as far as I know hasn't shot it since.  But I guess he figures it works and he has it if he needs it.  Isn't that why many folks buy a certain gun?  To have it when they need it.

I've had a Gen 2 for a couple of years with no issues. I put a Magpul AFG on it (solid attachment) which makes it very comfortable and logical to hold and work the action.

Having shot a KSG and me being first and foremost a shotgun shooter.

Fun to start with, you have to rack it like you really mean it (not sure which generation I shot) way more aggressively than any other pump I have owned or shot.

I did not care for the shell ejection hitting my arm in my normal firing position, after a shooting a bunch of rounds your arm can get raw from the mouth of the spent hull nibbling on the soft side of your arm. You can roll your arm so they miss, but for me a little slow and uncomfortable.

Secondly as a three gun shooter the loading of that system would be way slow and keep you out of the running against a 3gun shooter with a conventional loading weapon.

Then trying to figure out how to load on the run for the targets at the back of the stage to the front of the stage for proper load at proper target mixing bird,buck and slug would be more than my old brain could handle.

If you want one go for it but don't try to make it something it is not, try a round of skeet with it and you will see what I mean.
I did it, was fun however it would not help my average any.

Have had mine for about a year now.  Have run about 800 rounds through it.  Everything from 7 1/2 shot to slugs to 00 buck.  Not one single problem.  I have been using a magpul vert grip since day one on the plastic rail.  Not one single problem and am not worried about the rail breaking.  I have tried it three times in local 3-gun matches mainly because I was using my AUG for the rifle and wanted to keep the platform the same.  Performed well but no mater how fast you are with the KSG you can't compete with the guys with semi-auto shottys.  Running it as fast as I can I still feel secure in my handling skills and not worried about blowing my hand off.  For those of you who are concerned I have some other SBR's you probably should not even get near, like my 7.5" Mini Draco AK47.  Talk about muzzle blast, the KSG is a pussycat compared to that SBR.  Or how about my 9" 40mm?  Point is if you don't know where your hands are at all times you should stick to "traditional shot guns".

JMHO.

I have one and love it. I don't plan on shooting a 3 gun competition with it as I don't see the benefit other than capacity. It is not meant for competition in my opinion. The barrel is too short, does not allow for rapid reloading and chokes are debatable for them. It is what it is, an expensive toy that can work as a home defense gun.

I don't know if the Gen 2 models have addressed that cheap plastic rail, but if they haven't, not even a little interested.

Every other advertisement for that damn thing shows a vertical grip on it, which is how I would want to run it.

If you consciously take your finger out of the trigger guard every time you work the action, great.  No worries.  I don't.  Finger is forward, but not out of the guard.

If that grip, or the rail supporting it breaks off on the forward stroke, there's not much that can happen aside from blowing your hand off.  Your hand is now in front of the muzzle, which is dropping slightly due the  sudden lack of support from your support hand, and most people's instinctive reaction to a sudden loss of grip is to grip harder, and bye bye hand.

That was my gut reaction the first time I played with one, and at least two people have had that exact thing happen to them.  Maybe they were shooing like jackasses, but I don't think rapid fire is a prerequisite for this thing maiming the user.

I hade a KSG GEN2 ... it was a solid performing shotgun... the recoil was no worse than my duty 14.5 inches 12 gauge pump.   It is a different more straight back push with less up front flip but if my 5'2" 140lb wife can handle multiple shot strings with it and not complain... it's not that bad.

As far as the plastic rail is concerned... I didn't have to have anybody tell me putting a vertical foregrip on it was a bad idea... plastic+leverage+energetic pump action requirements= broken rail. I didn't have to have anybody tell me that a good handstop was a very good idea on such a short and recoil laden weapon.  

In short,  I found the KSG to be a great little bullpup if operated as such... try operating like a conventional pump and you will run into problems

I've got a GEN2 that I picked up middle of last year.  About 500 rds through it with no problems at all.  Let a couple of friends who had never handled one before shoot it....neither had any issues either.  
As far as mods go, I added the Hi-Tech extended selector switch, the kydex cheek rest (excellent mod!), Magpul shorty VFG, single point sling attachment, Magpul BUIS, and Aimpoint PRO.  Will likely add the aluminum lower rail and probably stainless mag followers next.  I've heard the followers help with faster, smoother loading.  With the short VFG in front, I've never really worried about the polymer rail breaking....honestly, the thing feels solid as is.  Would not recommend adding a full length vertical grip--at least not without the aluminum rail.  I could see where doing so might put a lot of torque on the polymer rails, especially if you were gripping it near the bottom and effectively pulling "up and back" when racking the slide.  Pretty sure this is what we saw in the very few instances of rails breaking (emphasis on very few:  Kel-Tec has produced over 92,000 KSGs to date, and how many disfigured hands have we really heard about?  would venture a guess that there have been similar injuries with a number of well-respected firearms).  I believe the KSG is a safe and effective weapon.  Would it be my first choice for competition?  Probably not....but then, I wouldn't expect NASCAR drivers to race on the track with their own personal vehicles either.  And maybe at the end of the day, that's the real issue the online haters have with it.  They want a gun that is perfect for all applications.  It's worth pointing out that 28" bird hunting guns generally don't make good home defense guns, given their less than optimal dimensions.  
For the current list price of $699-ish, I'd say buy with confidence and enjoy!  

Absoluitely agree... the KSG is a great HD/Truck/Camp shotgun that will do the job on ANY target you may encounter inside of 100 yards (slug) and 25 yards (buck)

Still waiting for a Neostead, cycles the opposite of what you are used to but pulling back to chamber a round is a lot safer on a bullpup shotgun,

How is pulling back on the slide action to load a round safer then a KSG?  You still have to push the slide all the way forward before pulling the trigger and therefore you off hand is in the very same position when you pull the trigger.  Or am I completely wrong as to where the slide is when firing?  Just watched the video and it does seem like there is less of a chance of getting your hand in front of the muzzle.  Interesting design.

How many people have shot their hand off with a KSG?  I can only find 2 reports of it happening, if that's your only reason for not buying one then you should use that reason for every firearm.  I'm guessing very firearm type ever made has had a ND/AD.  People do stupid things, take shortcuts or get sloppy and accidents happen.  I've seen people who have accidently shot themselves with Glocks, 1911s, Berettas, 870's, ARs, etc.  It's usually when they are trying to clean them but I've seen it when hunting and at the range as well.

I say try one and see if works for you.  I have one and like it, and I don't care for Kel-tec as company.

Considering how many were made?  I would venture to guess the ratio of units to severe hand injuries is probably the highest of any shotgun ever made.

I can only find one case of a guy shooting his support hand with a KSG and the other supposed case seems to be the same person with a variation of the details.  Since there are over 97,000 KSG's in circulation I am not worrying about it.  I use my KSG for 3-gun matches and I feel very safe.  Hell, sometimes I even use my 7.5" AK (mini Draco SBR) for 3- gun matches which has a vert grip pretty darned close to the muzzle device and I feel confident.  Singed eyebrows is a bigger concern.

To each his own

They made 100,000 of these?  I had no idea.  That's good to know - I assumed it was closer to like 10,000.

If the guns were semi auto (no constant working of the shitty rail on the slide) or the rails were made out of somthing stronger than super soaker plastic, or the rails simply weren't there, I wouldn't call this thing a maiming waiting to happen.

I don't wish bad things on good people, but it's really only a matter of time before the next incident.  I call em like I see em.

Because if the VFG breaks on the forward cycle (though note, no VFG in video), the momentum carries your slide hand off the gun forward of the muzzle.  Nothing is holding the gun up, so the front drops - with the muzzle right into the hand.  And the weight shift pulls the gun and trigger right into the trigger finger.  In the gun in the linked video, that will occur while the action is open and the gun unable to fire.  On a KSG, it will occur with the shell freshly chambered, the action locked into position, and the gun ready to fire.

Since they made 100,000 KSGs (I'm still in shock at that, they are way overpriced for an unreliable pump, but I digress), the rate of such catastrophic failures isn't as high as I thought - but it certainly can and has happened.  Conceptually, it just gives me the heebies.  A slippage while forcibly working an action can, credibly, blow it off.

I found that once I became familiar with the way the ksg likes to be worked, it was quite reliable. .... I must agree that th ed y are overpriced though.

It's worth noting that as production has increased on the KSGs (now close to 100,00), the aftermarket support has increased as well.  Companies like Hi-Tech Customs, SMT Tactical, and Bullpup Armory now offer upgrades that provide solid solutions to reported and rumored issues with the KSG.   $40 for example, will add a lower billet rail or an extended version with extra space out front that provides extra durability.  Extended chokes and muzzle brakes also help mitigate the already low risk of sliding a hand in front of the muzzle.  

SMT Tactical--by their own account on thektog.org--is also working on an upgraded bolt carrier in response to a few reports of carriers bending and breaking (though not sure how they broke?)  No word yet on a release date, but I for one am very interested to see what they'll have in store when they do release it.

I don't work for any of these companies and could care less about their sales, but the point is the KSG production market is still developing.  I think that for those of us who made (or are planning to make) the investment in the Gen2's, we'll see more R&D from Kel-Tec and other companies that will (hopefully!) help the KSG earn its place as a respectable defensive weapon which I believe it already is, but can always be improved upon.

Even though I was not worried about breaking the lower rail while using a Magpul Vert Grip, I installed a billet aluminum bottom rail anyway and now I am completely confident in it's operation.  I took the KSG out on Saturday to a local 3-gun match and gave it a pretty good workout at speed.  Every stage was pistol, rifle, & shotgun but none of the stages had more than 14 shotgun targets. Some were poppers that threw clay birds and the KSG handled everything with ease.  Didn't miss any shotgun targets and I was able to run the KSG just as fast as anyone out there with conventional pump guns.  To keep the playing field level you could only stage your shotgun with 9 rounds but as soon as the buzzer goes off you can top off whatever size mag tube you have.  Stoking an extra 3 or 5 rounds was just as fast as loading an 870 or 590.  Yeh that takes a second or two but everyone with 9 round mag tubes had to reload and I did not.  All in all I was pleased with the KSG's performance.  Didn't have a single problem and I was using a mix of X-light loads and heavy target loads, all low brass.  Still no problems.  I have to say the extended tube selector was one of my better investments. You never have to change your hand position to change mag tubes as you just use your wrist to flip it over to the next tube.

I have been very interested in this gun as well but for your HD usage I would recommend an auto shotgun because of stress and manipulation along with the need for slamming the action on this model.  Find a used benelli m1 super 90 and add a mag ext so you can hold 8 rounds.

My experience with shotguns is only on the 870s I've trained with twice a year for the past 8 years.  I finally got to shoot the KSG I got last week.  Unfortunately it was an indoor range and I had to shoot slugs.  I put a Magpul AFG on it.  I hadn't put any sights on it yet, so was just doing point shooting at about 25 yards.

The first shot surprised me with how much recoil and force I felt, man it felt like a cannon.  Hopefully that'll go down with buck/bird shot.  I then finished the first tube.  It was super accurate even without sights.  


I then switched to the other tube and tried rapidly pump and shooting.  My support hand did come off the AFG when racking one of the last rounds but I immediately stopped myself from firing.  I immediately could see how someone not paying attention and just shooting it as fast as they can could have blown their hand off.  To me the AVG felt great at first, but I believe I'll be better off with a foregrip or the magpul XTM handstop kit which I have laying around.  The recoil is just so much that it almost jumps out of my support hand when rapidly shooting.  I felt no safety issues shooting at a moderate or even quick rate, but I won't be blasting away on it ever again.


From what research I've done on the Aguila minishot shells, they seem to cycle fine.  I'm going to pick up a bunch of those little guys and see if they cycle as well.  I'll also be getting a cheek pad and putting my extra Vickers 221 sling on it.

Low recoil buckshot and slugs are the ticket with the KSG... a limbsaver tames the recoil quite well also. I haven't tried the aguila mini shells... but ill bet they are very soft shooting

They're super soft shooting. More poof then anything. Mine has been very reliable.

Just go buy a Benelli for crying out loud.

I have an old M1 Super 90 Tactical.  It's wonderful.  Well, of course it is! It's a Benelli.  Fifteen years old and looks just like new. I'm pretty sure you can't go wrong with an M2 either.

If you can't summon up the cash for a Benelli, get an 870.  A used Wingmaster from the 60s when Remington made them right.  How could you possibly go wrong with an 870 Wingmaster?  The 'tactical' barrels and mag extension come to about $120.  You need nothing more.  You can get these Wingmasters used for around $200 if you hunt around.

I have a pal who was gifted a nice 1960s Wingmaster from his grandpop.  It was all nicely slicked up in the action from perhaps 1000 skeet shells run through it in its time.  Like butter, and those Wingmasters got special attention at the factory.  All my pal did was buy a bead sight Parkerized 18" 870 barrel and a mag extension kit at a local gun show.  Cost $120 in total. The side of the receiver has a cheap but charming engraving of field and stream pastoral scene, like deer and flying pheasants or something.  Wood is really nice, just like you'd expect a 1960s Wingmaster to have.  Plain old orange rubber butt stock recoil pad. It's got minor nicks and dings on it, and the Parked barrel doesn't match the Blued receiver.  I think it looks absolutely great. He changed nothing else.

But still, my pal wasn't sure he had enough shotgun for home defense because it wasn't a bitchin' imported Italian counter-terrorist shotgun with ghost ring sights and a pistol grip like my semi-auto Benelli.  I told him "Dude, that's just nuts. Your Wingmaster needs nothing more.  Just look at this mother. This 870 you have is straight out of 'Tales Of The Highway Patrol' starring Broderick Crawford.  Like something Jack Webb racked in that killer's face on 'Dragnet' and said if he made so much as a twitch he'd be chasing his head down Third Street.  This is the shotgun that every FBI agent for the last five or six decades was trained on, and every USMC lance corporal pulling guard duty in the Fleet would be familiar with it.  It's just like the shotgun from the "Shotgun Ed! Who'd have thunk it?" scene in 'L.A. Confidential'.  No, this is one good-ass shotgun, you better believe.  Trust your life to it for home defense?  Absolutely.  This gun is built to win gunfights.  This would be a great gun for someone who only had one gun, if not near the very top of the list."

KelTec compared to that shotgun?  Come now, get serious.

I'll take my keltec KSG over a covnventional pump action. Simply better in confined spaces.  The Remington is undoubtedly more rugged but for the role the KSG fulfills it is plenty rugged to last a life time

Here's my 12" 870 and KSG.  Love them both but for HD work I will take the KSG any day.  Shorter then my 870 and the mag tubes hold 4 times as much.  I can now operate KSG as efficiently as my 870, and my eyes can pick up the red dot of the T1 Micro (with 8 year battery life it "always" stays on) faster than the tritium dot on the 870.  I keep the same type of light on the KSG as you see on the 870 but it is not mounted for this picture.