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Posted: 5/27/2015 7:37:38 PM EDT
[#1]
If it proves to be as reliable as the Tavor and AUG I could see it possibly taking the crown as THE bullpup to own. Being available in a variety of calibers including .308 is a huge advantage over all the other bullpups out there.
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Posted: 5/27/2015 7:59:56 PM EDT
[#2]
If the price is similar or higher than an AUG/TAVOR I doubt it in 5.56/.223 caliber... I personally would never buy one of these over a tavor/aug in 5.56; now regarding the .308 caliber they might have a chance there if they play their cards right. My opinion.. and I'm new to the bull-pup market.
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Posted: 5/27/2015 8:07:01 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If the price is similar or higher than an AUG/TAVOR I doubt it in 5.56/.223 caliber... I personally would never buy one of these over a tavor/aug in 5.56; now regarding the .308 caliber they might have a chance there if they play their cards right. My opinion.. and I'm new to the bull-pup market. My thoughts as well. |
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Posted: 5/27/2015 8:11:47 PM EDT
[#4]
Why would they not offer the 6.8 SPC II in the MDR though? Seems that would be a great caliber for a 16" barrel bullpup.
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Posted: 5/27/2015 9:01:28 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My thoughts as well. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: If the price is similar or higher than an AUG/TAVOR I doubt it in 5.56/.223 caliber... I personally would never buy one of these over a tavor/aug in 5.56; now regarding the .308 caliber they might have a chance there if they play their cards right. My opinion.. and I'm new to the bull-pup market. My thoughts as well. That, plus it's lack of military pedigree, will also hurt sales. I'm not banking that this thing will change much of anything in the market, unfortunately. But I would love to be proven wrong. |
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Posted: 5/27/2015 10:54:12 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If the price is similar or higher than an AUG/TAVOR I doubt it in 5.56/.223 caliber... I personally would never buy one of these over a tavor/aug in 5.56; now regarding the .308 caliber they might have a chance there if they play their cards right. My opinion.. and I'm new to the bull-pup market. Agreed. I'm already heavily invested in the AUG and will keep that as my 5.56 bullpup. The MDR is only interesting to me as a 308. |
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Posted: 5/27/2015 11:35:18 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why would they not offer the 6.8 SPC II in the MDR though? Seems that would be a great caliber for a 16" barrel bullpup. From the SHOT Show vids, the DT reps did indeed mention this will be available in 6.8 which is exactly why I'm waiting for this rifle vs going with one of the other bullpup rifles currently on the market. |
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Posted: 5/28/2015 9:25:48 AM EDT
[#8]
I don't know about other people's expectations, but, I have been waiting for a reliable 7.62 Nato bullpup for decades. My current bullpup rifle has been the Steyr Aug. I tried the Tavor and got rid of it because I did not like the ergonomics (extremely low rail) and the crappy 10lb trigger pull. Previously I had a Keltec RFB 1st generation rifle. I was pretty excited about that rifle because it was finally chambered in 7.62/.308. Unfortunately it experienced problems (jamming) issues right out of the box. Keltec customer service was great. They exchanged a new, enlarged cartridge chute free of charge and free shipping. That corrected the empty shell casing issue, but, not the issues with jamming issues FTF with all but FN FAL 20rd magazines. So I sold that rifle. The Desert Tech MDR looks to be the bullpup rifle I have been waiting for. And, it takes MagPul 25rd magazines. Hopefully it will also take X Products 50rd drums. I also like the forward ejection (unlike the Keltec) which uses a short ejection port cover.
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Posted: 5/28/2015 10:59:10 AM EDT
[#9]
Considering it has the potential to be the best all around bullpup and the apparent interest is quite high I believe it will be very well received and sought after... As long as it does not end up costing more than a few hundred dollars more than the other offerings. I have one ordered and decided to not purchase a Tavor once the MDR's development seemed to be progressing and I don't believe I am the only one nor do I think we will be disappointed
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Posted: 5/28/2015 11:47:50 AM EDT
[#10]
I want one, but I'm not going to drop the money for one. Maybe someday I'll come across a good deal and pick one up used.
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Posted: 5/28/2015 11:51:05 AM EDT
[#11]
I'm only interested in the MDR-C.
If it makes it to market at a non-astronomical price and has decent build quality and reliability I'll buy one. But I have this feeling in my nuggets that it will be none of the above. |
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Posted: 5/28/2015 1:59:45 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm only interested in the MDR-C. If it makes it to market at a non-astronomical price and has decent build quality and reliability I'll buy one. But I have this feeling in my nuggets that it will be none of the above. What are you basing this on? The price might be high I agree with you on that but desert tech had a reputation of excellent build quality and reliable rifles. |
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Posted: 5/28/2015 2:35:56 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What are you basing this on? The price might be high I agree with you on that but desert tech had a reputation of excellent build quality and reliable rifles. I'm basing it on nothing more than my own intuition... which tells me "wait and see". If they can pull it off and it doesn't cost as much as a used car and require year long waiting lists to get one I will be ecstatic. But the MDR has given me a very Kel Tec-ish vibe... not quality mind you, more the vibe of "hey look at this cool thing we may eventually get around to possibly thinking about making someday in the future for you to actually own in super limited numbers for a billion dollars each". I will be glad to be proven wrong as I always am... as my great grandchildren wait for my Vltor Bren Ten. 
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Posted: 5/28/2015 2:49:56 PM EDT
[#14]
I agree with you on the waiting aspect but i have no doubts that if it makes it to market that it will be a quality piece. I do think at some point with any product development you need to realize that what you are making cant be all things to all people and I do worry that DT might get lost trying to make something so perfect that it never sees the light of day.
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Posted: 5/28/2015 3:19:33 PM EDT
[#15]
We'll see. I think DT has done a great job on marketing and generating excitement, up until the past few months.
As far as I recall, the original ship date was Q1 2015, which has come and gone. Now I'm not sure if we'll see it at all in 2015, as again, AFAIK, no formal release update has been made. That aside, DT has a pretty solid record on quality (bolt) guns, and feature-wise, the MDR should be a winner. As much as the 'delays' are annoying, I think the initial release of the MDR is going to make it or break it - a solid release with no major unforeseen issues, meaning reliable and reasonable accuracy, with the current pricing structure would go a long ways towards it's success and likely impacting Tavor sales, at the very least. The only 'negative' vs a Tavor (again, assuming the MDR is released w/out issues) is lack of a 9mm/pistol caliber conversion - which could be done via aftermarket down the line, if the MDR sells enough to warrant it. Out of the gate, it has no military or LE history, so it must be solid and reliable. A reliable, solid MDR launch might also kick Steyr in the nuts hard enough to at the very least update their NATO stocks... 
Any major issues out of the gate would not be insurmountable, but would be costly (both in servicing and in sales) and take real time to recover from. Their launch and the immediate + longer term reviews and feedback are going to be what determines - is it in the same class as the AUG and Tavor, or...is it a Kel-Tec? |
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Posted: 5/28/2015 3:31:48 PM EDT
[#16]
I used to be a big fan of bull pups but the only ones left that interest me are the MDR or a tan colored AUG. I have tried the tavor and it is a decent gun but it just doesn't get me going. The MDR has almost everything I like in a rifle. At least theoretically.
I suppose the rest of what is on the market is just too oddball for my taste. And I like to think my tastes run towards the stranger side. If the new kel tech rifles prove somewhat relaible, afofrdable and most importantly available I might get one of those. On an somewhat related note I had a dream about an MDR with an acog a few nights ago. I was in the middle of an all out war with one and it functioned nicely. Loved the cover over the ejection port that allowed me to shoot left handed around cover.
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Posted: 5/28/2015 3:36:36 PM EDT
[#17]
It won't have as big of an Impact. AUGs were pricey and rare until a few years back. The Tavor hit and prices went to around $1600 quickly. It was a relatively new rifle, that was a good design and not too expensive. That was a first for a bullpup in the US. I think it can sell well, but the Tavor had the impact it did because it was the first high selling bullpup here.
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Posted: 5/28/2015 11:44:34 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It won't have as big of an Impact. AUGs were pricey and rare until a few years back. The Tavor hit and prices went to around $1600 quickly. It was a relatively new rifle, that was a good design and not too expensive. That was a first for a bullpup in the US. I think it can sell well, but the Tavor had the impact it did because it was the first high selling bullpup here. I agree with most of this. The Tavor had some unique things going for it. It's a newer generation of bullpup that has enough track time to prove its reliability. It was designed and built by a manufacturer with a good track record of arms knowledge and product. It's been adopted and used in combat by a military that has a decent level of respect for no nonsense, good tactics, and how they use their weapons. I think it's why even guys like Jerry Miculek and others not normally that fond of bullpups took interest in it. It's been kind of a perfect storm involving a good weapon, badass mystique, and good marketing. I have a Tavor and an AUG. I have little time on the Tavor at the moment, but I'm not seeing a real pro/con difference between the two at this point. I love both rifles. It's going to take a real stellar performer of a new rifle to upset either of these two weapons. Not impossible...but close. |
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Posted: 5/29/2015 12:08:17 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I agree with most of this. The Tavor had some unique things going for it. It's a newer generation of bullpup that has enough track time to prove its reliability. It was designed and built by a manufacturer with a good track record of arms knowledge and product. It's been adopted and used in combat by a military that has a decent level of respect for no nonsense, good tactics, and how they use their weapons. I think it's why even guys like Jerry Miculek and others not normally that fond of bullpups took interest in it. It's been kind of a perfect storm involving a good weapon, badass mystique, and good marketing. I have a Tavor and an AUG. I have little time on the Tavor at the moment, but I'm not seeing a real pro/con difference between the two at this point. I love both rifles. It's going to take a real stellar performer of a new rifle to upset either of these two weapons. Not impossible...but close. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
It won't have as big of an Impact. AUGs were pricey and rare until a few years back. The Tavor hit and prices went to around $1600 quickly. It was a relatively new rifle, that was a good design and not too expensive. That was a first for a bullpup in the US. I think it can sell well, but the Tavor had the impact it did because it was the first high selling bullpup here. I agree with most of this. The Tavor had some unique things going for it. It's a newer generation of bullpup that has enough track time to prove its reliability. It was designed and built by a manufacturer with a good track record of arms knowledge and product. It's been adopted and used in combat by a military that has a decent level of respect for no nonsense, good tactics, and how they use their weapons. I think it's why even guys like Jerry Miculek and others not normally that fond of bullpups took interest in it. It's been kind of a perfect storm involving a good weapon, badass mystique, and good marketing. I have a Tavor and an AUG. I have little time on the Tavor at the moment, but I'm not seeing a real pro/con difference between the two at this point. I love both rifles. It's going to take a real stellar performer of a new rifle to upset either of these two weapons. Not impossible...but close. Probably the case for existing owners, but less of an impact on first-time bullpup purchasers...as long as they don't screw up the launch and keep up the visibility/hype/marketing, backed w/quality. |
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Posted: 5/29/2015 1:32:51 PM EDT
[#20]
How is Desert Tech's rep when it comes to mass production?
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Posted: 5/29/2015 1:40:16 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How is Desert Tech's rep when it comes to mass production? Their current products are very high quality but when you're talking $3500+ bolt guns they really aren't in what I'd consider "mass production". |
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Posted: 5/30/2015 1:30:47 PM EDT
[#22]
Man, if Steyr could just give us what we want(barrels of different lengths, twists, calibers, a better trigger, etc. for a reasonable price) the MDR wouldn't be necessary. Come on Steyr, make your market move!!!
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Posted: 5/30/2015 1:51:50 PM EDT
[#23]
Any word on the MSRP on the .308 version?
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Posted: 5/30/2015 1:51:52 PM EDT
[#24]
This is the same desert tech that tried to hype up their not selling rifles to Pakistan by kind of mis-representing the truth a whole bunch, right?
The ones that we're going to bid on a contract, but then decided not to bid, then called the media and said "look how patriotic we are, we turned down a $15 million contract because we are so patriotic" when in reality they never were even close to having a contract in the first place? If so, count me out of ever owning a single one of their products. I can't ever support a company that uses deception as a marketing practice |
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Posted: 5/30/2015 1:55:17 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Man, if Steyr could just give us what we want(barrels of different lengths, twists, calibers, a better trigger, etc. for a reasonable price) the MDR wouldn't be necessary. Come on Steyr, make your market move!!! I'm sure they'll get right on it.  |
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Posted: 5/30/2015 2:31:12 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Their current products are very high quality but when you're talking $3500+ bolt guns they really aren't in what I'd consider "mass production". Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
How is Desert Tech's rep when it comes to mass production? Their current products are very high quality but when you're talking $3500+ bolt guns they really aren't in what I'd consider "mass production". That's my point. They don't have a history of being able to churn out high numbers of quality guns. They make very, very nice rifles...but at a pretty slow rate. |
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Posted: 5/30/2015 4:10:43 PM EDT
[#27]
I would imagine that they would have factored in likely production rates and orders during their R&D phase and will have come up with a manufacturing plan to accommodate. At least that's how every product roll out i've ever been part of has worked, then again I have no knowledge of their business plans so i could be completely wrong.
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Posted: 5/30/2015 6:28:28 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I would imagine that they would have factored in likely production rates and orders during their R&D phase and will have come up with a manufacturing plan to accommodate. At least that's how every product roll out i've ever been part of has worked, then again I have no knowledge of their business plans so i could be completely wrong. Or the FS2000, with a huge barrier to entry and no replacement parts for a very unique system.
But I hope not, because innovation is neat. |
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Posted: 5/30/2015 6:52:12 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's my point. They don't have a history of being able to churn out high numbers of quality guns. They make very, very nice rifles...but at a pretty slow rate. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
How is Desert Tech's rep when it comes to mass production? Their current products are very high quality but when you're talking $3500+ bolt guns they really aren't in what I'd consider "mass production". That's my point. They don't have a history of being able to churn out high numbers of quality guns. They make very, very nice rifles...but at a pretty slow rate. If that's the price model approach they are going to apply, this will be a non-starter. |
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Posted: 5/30/2015 9:19:30 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If that's the price model approach they are going to apply, this will be a non-starter. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
How is Desert Tech's rep when it comes to mass production? Their current products are very high quality but when you're talking $3500+ bolt guns they really aren't in what I'd consider "mass production". That's my point. They don't have a history of being able to churn out high numbers of quality guns. They make very, very nice rifles...but at a pretty slow rate. If that's the price model approach they are going to apply, this will be a non-starter. That's what their precision bolt action rifle goes for. I don't think they've released a MSRP yet but all signs seem to point to the MDR being more in the ballpark of $2000. |
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Posted: 5/30/2015 9:20:04 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If that's the price model approach they are going to apply, this will be a non-starter. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
How is Desert Tech's rep when it comes to mass production? Their current products are very high quality but when you're talking $3500+ bolt guns they really aren't in what I'd consider "mass production". That's my point. They don't have a history of being able to churn out high numbers of quality guns. They make very, very nice rifles...but at a pretty slow rate. If that's the price model approach they are going to apply, this will be a non-starter. The shop I work at has a preorder list and we indicated an even higher price point, all 10 we made the list for now have deposits on them, took about 2 weeks from when we started. The price point is why dt won't have to make a ton of them fast, most will freak about the price and just buy a tavor, those willing to spend the $ will get their MDR. I would rather see dt keep up their quality standards than a lower price. |
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Posted: 5/30/2015 9:20:50 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The shop I work at has a preorder list and we indicated an even higher price point, all 10 we made the list for now have deposits on them, took about 2 weeks from when we started. The price point is why dt won't have to make a ton of them fast, most will freak about the price and just buy a tavor, those willing to spend the $ will get their MDR. I would rather see dt keep up their quality standards than a lower price. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
How is Desert Tech's rep when it comes to mass production? Their current products are very high quality but when you're talking $3500+ bolt guns they really aren't in what I'd consider "mass production". That's my point. They don't have a history of being able to churn out high numbers of quality guns. They make very, very nice rifles...but at a pretty slow rate. If that's the price model approach they are going to apply, this will be a non-starter. The shop I work at has a preorder list and we indicated an even higher price point, all 10 we made the list for now have deposits on them, took about 2 weeks from when we started. The price point is why dt won't have to make a ton of them fast, most will freak about the price and just buy a tavor, those willing to spend the $ will get their MDR. I would rather see dt keep up their quality standards than a lower price. 
Eurooptic was taking preorders for the .308 model at $2500 IIRC, and the .223 was a few hundred less. |
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Posted: 5/31/2015 12:28:04 AM EDT
[#33]
Hmmmm, is that a guaranteed price or an estimate? That is well below what we are paying for the chass and 5.56mm kit.
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Posted: 5/31/2015 9:34:41 AM EDT
[#34]
For some reason I seem to remember (although never confirmed by DT) that MSRP was supposed to be around $2k on these, so street would be a little less. A lot of this thread is pure speculation though. Yes DT are a small bolt gun group but I doubt that they are going to be selling the MDR for $3500+ just because that's what their bolt guns go for. If that's the case they haven't done their market research very well and from everything i've seen the company seems to be run by intelligent, organized people.
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Posted: 5/31/2015 1:28:49 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
For some reason I seem to remember (although never confirmed by DT) that MSRP was supposed to be around $2k on these, so street would be a little less. A lot of this thread is pure speculation though. Yes DT are a small bolt gun group but I doubt that they are going to be selling the MDR for $3500+ just because that's what their bolt guns go for. If that's the case they haven't done their market research very well and from everything i've seen the company seems to be run by intelligent, organized people. I'm just going off what the 2014 shot show dealer order form indicated. The chass and caliber combos were listed as two seperate elements. Just the chass may get in under $2,000, but that means no barrel, bolt, or magwell block. As I said, dt has been doing just fine on their bolt gun line at premium pricing, so I'm not worried if their goal isn't to dominate the bullpen market. There are lots of cheaper alternatives to the mdr for those that don't want to spend the coin. |
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Posted: 5/31/2015 1:52:52 PM EDT
[#36]
YI like the rifle, from what I have seen
But, I think DT is going to have an uphill battle to push their rifle. Shooters who already own a bullpup - will be interested. Shooters who are new, or shooters who are interested in buying a bullpup to add to their collection or transition from another platform(Ak/AR) will be looking for an AUG or Tavor The amount of media on the Internet especially on the success of the Tavor in the U.S. - as a bullpup overshadows all others. |
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Posted: 6/2/2015 12:30:12 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This is the same desert tech that tried to hype up their not selling rifles to Pakistan by kind of mis-representing the truth a whole bunch, right? The ones that we're going to bid on a contract, but then decided not to bid, then called the media and said "look how patriotic we are, we turned down a $15 million contract because we are so patriotic" when in reality they never were even close to having a contract in the first place? If so, count me out of ever owning a single one of their products. I can't ever support a company that uses deception as a marketing practice Do you have a linkable, reliable source for this? I remember all the patriotic chest thumping. But nothing about never being close to an actual contract. |
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Posted: 6/2/2015 12:40:55 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This is the same desert tech that tried to hype up their not selling rifles to Pakistan by kind of mis-representing the truth a whole bunch, right? The ones that we're going to bid on a contract, but then decided not to bid, then called the media and said "look how patriotic we are, we turned down a $15 million contract because we are so patriotic" when in reality they never were even close to having a contract in the first place? If so, count me out of ever owning a single one of their products. I can't ever support a company that uses deception as a marketing practice There are many reasons that will affect my decision to purchase a .308 Desert Tech Bullpup. This is not one of them (if even true). |
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Posted: 7/11/2015 8:12:21 PM EDT
[#39]
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Posted: 7/11/2015 10:37:39 PM EDT
[#40]
So...... about that .308 version. looks like 16 and 19" will be the options. Curious BBL lengths. 19"? I was leaning more towards a 20", or maybe even a 22" if it were to be offered, for .308. Since .308 is about power. An BBL length = power. An bullpup = short, so a 22" Bullpup .308 would be about as awesome a as you could get!
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Posted: 7/11/2015 10:41:04 PM EDT
[#41]
What's the difference between the "echo" and the "compliant" model? Bullet button for California I'm guessing?
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Posted: 7/11/2015 10:55:29 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Do you have a linkable, reliable source for this? I remember all the patriotic chest thumping. But nothing about never being close to an actual contract. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
This is the same desert tech that tried to hype up their not selling rifles to Pakistan by kind of mis-representing the truth a whole bunch, right? The ones that we're going to bid on a contract, but then decided not to bid, then called the media and said "look how patriotic we are, we turned down a $15 million contract because we are so patriotic" when in reality they never were even close to having a contract in the first place? If so, count me out of ever owning a single one of their products. I can't ever support a company that uses deception as a marketing practice Do you have a linkable, reliable source for this? I remember all the patriotic chest thumping. But nothing about never being close to an actual contract. http://m.deseretnews.com/article/865593524/Utah-gun-company-says-no-to-10-million-contract-from-Pakistan.html?pg=all&ref=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2F%3Fref%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2F Here is one link. Every other statement from them back when this was a news thing skirted around the issue of "well, there were a few companies that may have gotten this contract, so there was a chance that we'd get it, but we decided not to bid/compete for it" It was not the "oh Pakistan wants our guns so bad but we said no" that they made it out to be. |
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Posted: 7/12/2015 3:32:32 AM EDT
[#43]
Ugh I really want one of these. Given their reputation the 16" should be an exceptional all-around accurate reliable carbine, and their SBR version is only 1" longer than an SBRd PS90 while firing 5.56. I'm worried that it's cost will be around 3k and length/caliber conversion kits may be vaporwear. I don't want them to go the way of the ACR kits!
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Posted: 7/12/2015 6:13:56 AM EDT
[#44]
Im a big fan of DTA, and the MDR has some really innovative features but I dont see the MDR unseating the AUG or the Tavor. To start with, absent another panic, the market is fairly saturated both in bullpups and military style rifles in general. Assuming initial cost of $2000, I just dont see what it brings to the table for the average joe to make the jump. Bullpup guys, shooters, collectors may take the plunge. AUG/Tavor owners? Your average joe who just wants a rifle to take to the range, teach their kid to shoot, or have it handy if the time comes?
Average joe doesnt care about 7.62 conversions(that add several hundred $$$ to the price), hell I dont really care about 7.62 anymore and I have more disposable income and time than a lot of people. It lacks the longevity and real world performance history that the AUG/Tavor have. And lets face it, right or wrong, battle proven designs are what average joes want even though their usage patterns will never come close. I dont think they will get many converts from the mature bullpup designs either. Now if they manage to bring it out around the street price of a Tavor or AUG then people might be more inclined to take a chance on an as yet "untested" design. Im left wondering who their target market is. The air is getting thin at the $2k range. All that being said I definitely fancy one in 6 or 6.5 CM! |
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Posted: 7/12/2015 7:59:38 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What's the difference between the "echo" and the "compliant" model? Bullet button for California I'm guessing? Caliber choices it looks like to me but you could also be dead on as far as the bullet button goes. |
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Posted: 7/12/2015 8:07:12 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Im a big fan of DTA, and the MDR has some really innovative features but I dont see the MDR unseating the AUG or the Tavor. To start with, absent another panic, the market is fairly saturated both in bullpups and military style rifles in general. Assuming initial cost of $2000, I just dont see what it brings to the table for the average joe to make the jump. Bullpup guys, shooters, collectors may take the plunge. AUG/Tavor owners? Your average joe who just wants a rifle to take to the range, teach their kid to shoot, or have it handy if the time comes? Average joe doesnt care about 7.62 conversions(that add several hundred $$$ to the price), hell I dont really care about 7.62 anymore and I have more disposable income and time than a lot of people. It lacks the longevity and real world performance history that the AUG/Tavor have. And lets face it, right or wrong, battle proven designs are what average joes want even though their usage patterns will never come close. I dont think they will get many converts from the mature bullpup designs either. Now if they manage to bring it out around the street price of a Tavor or AUG then people might be more inclined to take a chance on an as yet "untested" design. Im left wondering who their target market is. The air is getting thin at the $2k range. All that being said I definitely fancy one in 6 or 6.5 CM! I'm with you, sans the income and time! I think you're dead on. At one time I had the time and cash to spend a day at the lease and blow through a couple hundred rounds of surplus(another game changer: no more cheap ammo!)but not any more. I'm thinning the herd with an eye towards what I might like as new toys come out but I gave to be practical as well since I gave mouths to feed. |
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Posted: 7/12/2015 3:33:46 PM EDT
[#47]
Everyone has their favorites...in guns, calibers, etc. I happen to really like .308. Both .308 and 5.56/.223 allow one to buy huge amounts of bulk ammo at least at prices not approaching the national debt. And in those two calibers, there's a ton of off-the-shelf ammo choices as well as a wide variety of reloading options. I don't think bullpups are just the "cool factor" issue that some purists tend to categorize them in. Though it seems to be taking forever, I think they are still the future of semiauto rifles outside of .22 rimfire. Semiauto rifles seem to mainly be the bailiwick of militaries, police, and serious gun enthusiasts. The military and police segments are usually highly driven by budgets and habit. I think that's why you see rifles like the AR tend to hang on in such an entrenched way. The serious gun enthusiast segment of the market is relatively small. All of these factors tend to stifle development and raise the costs of rifles like bullpups...at least that's my opinion and observation.
I have 3 AR's...two of which are AR10's. I now have 3 bullpups too...AUG, Tavor, and RFB. If I had to flee for my life and run out of the house with just one or two rifles, I'm pretty sure neither of them would be the AR's. I have that much confidence in them. People are different, however, so pick your poison. I'm not seeing the MDR as much different than the RFB...at least in .308, of course. One thing that piques my curiosity and maybe some concern is the conversion capability of the MDR. If I'm reading correctly, it looks like the same basic rifle can be converted from 5.56 to 7.62? If so, how is that accomplished in the whole issue of weight and structural integrity? |
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Posted: 7/12/2015 8:12:47 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Im a big fan of DTA, and the MDR has some really innovative features but I dont see the MDR unseating the AUG or the Tavor. To start with, absent another panic, the market is fairly saturated both in bullpups and military style rifles in general. Assuming initial cost of $2000, I just dont see what it brings to the table for the average joe to make the jump. Bullpup guys, shooters, collectors may take the plunge. AUG/Tavor owners? Your average joe who just wants a rifle to take to the range, teach their kid to shoot, or have it handy if the time comes? The AR market is saturated, yet new companies spring up daily selling the same retreaded rifle with the same grab bag of parts with little but the rollmark on the receiver to distinguish themselves and yet...they sell. The MDR is going to sell and sell very well. It's going to offer a package out of the box, that while possibly slightly more expensive, will not be matched by either the Tavor or AUG when a straight up box-stock apples to apples comparison is done. Accuracy, trigger, flexibility, and user configuration are things that the AUG and Tavor collectively offer, but neither offers all of them out of the box. If the trigger is as good as the reports are saying (and I know, this is a big "if", but DT has a track record of outstanding bullpup triggers) then either the AUG or Tavor will need a several hundred dollar trigger pack upgrade to match. The Tavor requires you to pretty much tear the rifle apart if you want to swap barrels or calibers, while the AUG and MDR can be reconfigured within a minute or two. And so on. Then you add in the potential for the guy who just bought a ~$2000ish bullpup in 5.56mm to get another one (via a conversion kit) for .308 or one of seven other calibers for somewhere in the ~$1000 range, it it suddenly changes the picture, especially when a lot of those calibers are ones that neither of the competition offers or plans to offer. |
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Posted: 7/12/2015 8:56:39 PM EDT
[#49]
I really just want the MDR-C. Hopefully they end up making a solution for guys that run a light and laser, because it looks like you'd have to choose one or the other as there is only a top rail.
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Posted: 7/12/2015 8:58:49 PM EDT
[#50]
I don't agree with some of these market assessments. I think there is sufficient market niche for a RELIABLE .308 Bullpup(with left hand capability, and sniper-accptblrl trigger ) for there to be decent sales of that model. It's a non-satisfied market right now. Kel-tek had their chance, but blew consumer confidence with a bad release. Maybe even some govt contracts - if I were a DMR carrying a .308, which may be long range - may be houses, a Bullpup one would be tidy.
As to 5.56 - I have an AUG already, the chance of me getting a DTR in 5.56 is pretty much zero, regardless of price point. |
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