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Posted: 3/12/2015 10:46:14 AM EDT
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Posted: 3/12/2015 1:19:53 PM EDT
[#1]
I like some of the features of this rifle, but putting it in the same MSRP range as a Tavor was not very smart...
I do wounder how much it weighs |
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Posted: 3/14/2015 11:43:42 PM EDT
[#2]
D
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I like some of the features of this rifle, but putting it in the same MSRP range as a Tavor was not very smart... I do wounder how much it weighs I have to agree. If price point is the same all around between all 3... I would go with a Tavor//AUG .... Proven weapons designs and years of T&E My guess 7.5 or 8 pounds |
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Posted: 3/15/2015 12:45:37 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I like some of the features of this rifle, but putting it in the same MSRP range as a Tavor was not very smart... I do wounder how much it weighs  |
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Posted: 3/15/2015 8:08:39 AM EDT
[#4]
That's kinda what I was thinking, but trying to be polite about it
Don't get me wrong, from the looks of it I would love to have one... But honestly with it being a Kel-Tec product it's probably going to launch like the KSG (almost vaporware) Honestly, I would not be interested unless the price point was less than $1k, and it had been on the market for a while |
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Posted: 3/15/2015 7:05:17 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's kinda what I was thinking, but trying to be polite about it Don't get me wrong, from the looks of it I would love to have one... But honestly with it being a Kel-Tec product it's probably going to launch like the KSG (almost vaporware) Honestly, I would not be interested unless the price point was less than $1k, and it had been on the market for a while Or at least Manticore. Plus, that pic above? Forend looks genuinely clunky, and I thought the FS2000 looked fat  |
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Posted: 3/15/2015 7:25:31 PM EDT
[#6]
Interesting to read the comments below the article. Very savvy consumers. |
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Posted: 3/15/2015 7:34:13 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Interesting to read the comments below the article. Very savvy consumers. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Interesting to read the comments below the article. Very savvy consumers. Reading comments on gun articles, instagram, and facebook gives you cancer. 
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Posted: 3/15/2015 9:04:29 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No kidding. Let the market catch up to the point that the accessories manufacturing companies can come out with whatever parts need improvement. Or at least Manticore.
Plus, that pic above? Forend looks genuinely clunky, and I thought the FS2000 looked fat
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
That's kinda what I was thinking, but trying to be polite about it
Don't get me wrong, from the looks of it I would love to have one... But honestly with it being a Kel-Tec product it's probably going to launch like the KSG (almost vaporware) Honestly, I would not be interested unless the price point was less than $1k, and it had been on the market for a while Or at least Manticore.
Plus, that pic above? Forend looks genuinely clunky, and I thought the FS2000 looked fat
LOL, I will take that as a compliment. 
I have fired these and they are neat- the one thing I did not like was the mag release- a very sharp and uncomfortable piece of stamped metal which gouged me in the shooting hand a few times. The downward ejection is cool, but clearing a jam would be a bit tricky from what I saw. Not impossible, but harder than on an AK or AR. |
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Posted: 3/18/2015 12:10:41 PM EDT
[#9]
I love and collect bullpups at that price point most will but it at the bottom of their buy list
I have a ksg and rfb and they are range toys at best. Only a fool would trust their lives to a toY |
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Posted: 3/18/2015 11:58:04 PM EDT
[#10]
I am interested in learning more about the trigger-hammer-sear mechanism.
It looks like they have a short carrier with a custom bolt, involute lug pattern, strong and easy to machine like the ARAK-21 bolt. It looks like they welded the op rod to the carrier, not sure I like that relative to the threaded in op-rod of the ARAK, but who knows, maybe fine. What I can't understand is exactly where the hammer and FCG is located. How long is the firing pin? If the carrier is shorter than a magazine, is the face of the hammer extra-long to reach? |
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Posted: 3/19/2015 12:03:14 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I love and collect bullpups at that price point most will but it at the bottom of their buy list I have a ksg and rfb and they are range toys at best. Only a fool would trust their lives to a toY My RFB has never hiccuped |
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Posted: 3/19/2015 2:47:47 AM EDT
[#12]
Keltec
 Garbage toy guns. For more than a war-proven Tavor/AUG? 
And yet despite Keltec's mediocre-at-best reputation, and the fact that their guns use bolted together ABS McDonald's toy plastic, someone out there will give them money |
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Posted: 3/19/2015 7:09:00 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Keltec Garbage toy guns. For more than a war-proven Tavor/AUG?
And yet despite Keltec's mediocre-at-best reputation, and the fact that their guns use bolted together ABS McDonald's toy plastic, someone out there will give them money Wouldn't be my first choice, but you've never actually fired one of their rifles have you? |
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Posted: 3/19/2015 7:41:22 AM EDT
[#14]
I have a ksg and was pleasantly surprised with it.
I didn't just buy it but watched and paid a fair price; it was more than any of my 590a1s but it's also cooler. |
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Posted: 3/19/2015 8:44:48 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My RFB has never hiccuped Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I have a ksg and rfb and they are range toys at best. Only a fool would trust their lives to a toY My RFB has never hiccuped FWIW, my RFB and KSG have also both been fine - the KSG needs to be racked "authoritatively" rather than gently, but I wouldn't hesitate to trust my life to either (nor to my father's P11 for that matter). Richard |
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Posted: 3/19/2015 11:02:22 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Keltec Garbage toy guns. For more than a war-proven Tavor/AUG?
And yet despite Keltec's mediocre-at-best reputation, and the fact that their guns use bolted together ABS McDonald's toy plastic, someone out there will give them money Extreme commentary there. Keltec puts out some decent weapons. I have experience with the KSG and it is a fine shotgun for its intended purpose. Also comparing IWI ( Originally a government funded entity, recently privatized while maintaining close ties with the government ) to Keltec, a totally private company is skewed at best. |
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Posted: 3/19/2015 11:26:13 AM EDT
[#17]
The RFB I kind of said oh cool KT doing something fresh again. It will be virgin unicorn teeth to get but stil a great idea.
This I don't really see the idea of. No way I would choose it over an AUG or Tavor |
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Posted: 3/19/2015 12:29:56 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No way I would choose it over an AUG or Tavor Well, how about vs an FS2000 - which is your other non-side-ejecting bullpup choice... Plenty I don't love about my FS2000, but the ejection is fantastic: change sides without doing anything and still avoid a faceful of brass! RDB is similar, though frankly I don't see why they didn't just do a 5.56mm RFB.... Richard |
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Posted: 3/19/2015 1:54:24 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Well, how about vs an FS2000 - which is your other non-side-ejecting bullpup choice... Plenty I don't love about my FS2000, but the ejection is fantastic: change sides without doing anything and still avoid a faceful of brass! RDB is similar, though frankly I don't see why they didn't just do a 5.56mm RFB.... Richard Good point. I could be imagining it, but I thought I heard mention in one of the RDB youtube videos that KT might consider other calibers for the RDB including .308. Does this imply that they prefer the downward ejecting mech over the forward? Is the RDB perhaps an end-to-end improvement within the KT bullpup line? |
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Posted: 3/19/2015 1:58:25 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Good point. I could be imagining it, but I thought I heard mention in one of the RDB youtube videos that KT might consider other calibers for the RDB including .308. Does this imply that they prefer the downward ejecting mech over the forward? Is the RDB perhaps an end-to-end improvement within the KT bullpup line? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Well, how about vs an FS2000 - which is your other non-side-ejecting bullpup choice... Plenty I don't love about my FS2000, but the ejection is fantastic: change sides without doing anything and still avoid a faceful of brass! RDB is similar, though frankly I don't see why they didn't just do a 5.56mm RFB.... Richard Good point. I could be imagining it, but I thought I heard mention in one of the RDB youtube videos that KT might consider other calibers for the RDB including .308. Does this imply that they prefer the downward ejecting mech over the forward? Is the RDB perhaps an end-to-end improvement within the KT bullpup line? I like the bolt design on the RDB better than the RFB, but I'm not a huge fan of downward ejection. Would make it easy to design a brass catcher though
I've got most of the pieces, and have considered changing up my plans for my PDR project to go with downward ejection instead of the front/side selectable ejection of the original concept. The only thing stopping me is attempting to stay true to the concept... |
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Posted: 3/20/2015 1:55:49 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Good point. I could be imagining it, but I thought I heard mention in one of the RDB youtube videos that KT might consider other calibers for the RDB including .308. Does this imply that they prefer the downward ejecting mech over the forward? Is the RDB perhaps an end-to-end improvement within the KT bullpup line? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Well, how about vs an FS2000 - which is your other non-side-ejecting bullpup choice... Plenty I don't love about my FS2000, but the ejection is fantastic: change sides without doing anything and still avoid a faceful of brass! RDB is similar, though frankly I don't see why they didn't just do a 5.56mm RFB.... Richard Good point. I could be imagining it, but I thought I heard mention in one of the RDB youtube videos that KT might consider other calibers for the RDB including .308. Does this imply that they prefer the downward ejecting mech over the forward? Is the RDB perhaps an end-to-end improvement within the KT bullpup line? Supposedly the plan is to eventually discontinue the RFB in favor of a .308 RDB. Apparently the RDB is easier to manufacture. |
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Posted: 3/20/2015 8:54:52 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Supposedly the plan is to eventually discontinue the RFB in favor of a .308 RDB. Apparently the RDB is easier to manufacture. That was my impression as well, though I have no reliable source for the impression - perhaps just intarwebs speculation. It seems logical that KT didn't develop the RDB just for fun when they had a bugs-finally-worked-out RFB in place. Richard |
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Posted: 3/20/2015 11:25:48 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I am interested in learning more about the trigger-hammer-sear mechanism. It looks like they have a short carrier with a custom bolt, involute lug pattern, strong and easy to machine like the ARAK-21 bolt. It looks like they welded the op rod to the carrier, not sure I like that relative to the threaded in op-rod of the ARAK, but who knows, maybe fine. What I can't understand is exactly where the hammer and FCG is located. How long is the firing pin? If the carrier is shorter than a magazine, is the face of the hammer extra-long to reach? Here's the only cutaway I can find. Like the RFB, the hammer spring is up front at the trigger/sear, linked to the hammer in the back. In the pics I've seen, the hammer appears to be stamped and lightweight, which makes up for the shape and long swing required to not interfere with the long bolt travel and ejection. 
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Posted: 3/20/2015 5:22:47 PM EDT
[#24]
If the RDB has as good a trigger as the .308 RFB, that will be a big advantage IMO. My Steyr was immensely improved by the 20/20 trigger sear, but the couple of RFB's I have tested the trigger on were butter.
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Posted: 3/22/2015 12:17:04 PM EDT
[#25]
I'm interested to hear what war the tavor has proven itself in...
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Posted: 3/22/2015 3:41:35 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm interested to hear what war the tavor has proven itself in... None, but it has been used in skirmishes here and there. Good talking point though if you dont think about it too much 
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Posted: 3/22/2015 3:49:43 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm interested to hear what war the tavor has proven itself in... Some Israeli units have been using the TAR-21 and X95 for several years now. It's also been issued in at least a dozen other countries. |
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Posted: 3/22/2015 5:19:36 PM EDT
[#28]
21 other countries, aside from Israel.... Use or issue the Tavor to LE/military units. |
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Posted: 3/22/2015 6:40:47 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm interested to hear what war the tavor has proven itself in... Just because the side using it didn't win (due to various strategic decisions) doesn't mean the rifle didn't prove itself. Small arms don't win wars. |
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Posted: 3/22/2015 10:55:13 PM EDT
[#30]
I'm a Steyr AUG owner, but on this discussion about weapons being war worthy...does anyone really think that Israel would field a questionable rifle in the Tavor/X95 platform? It's a tough neighborhood, and they've shown pretty good judgment in weapons development and deployment. I wouldn't be concerned with either the AUG or Tavor for serious application.
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Posted: 3/22/2015 11:07:22 PM EDT
[#31]
Bottom eject? Sounds good for us lefties!
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Posted: 3/23/2015 1:08:16 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Here's the only cutaway I can find. Like the RFB, the hammer spring is up front at the trigger/sear, linked to the hammer in the back. In the pics I've seen, the hammer appears to be stamped and lightweight, which makes up for the shape and long swing required to not interfere with the long bolt travel and ejection. http://www.all4shooters.com/en/specials/Trade-shows-2014/SHOT-show-2014/rifles/keltec-rdb-rifle/RDBFlyerLowRes-2.jpg?resize=930x870%3E Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I am interested in learning more about the trigger-hammer-sear mechanism. It looks like they have a short carrier with a custom bolt, involute lug pattern, strong and easy to machine like the ARAK-21 bolt. It looks like they welded the op rod to the carrier, not sure I like that relative to the threaded in op-rod of the ARAK, but who knows, maybe fine. What I can't understand is exactly where the hammer and FCG is located. How long is the firing pin? If the carrier is shorter than a magazine, is the face of the hammer extra-long to reach? Here's the only cutaway I can find. Like the RFB, the hammer spring is up front at the trigger/sear, linked to the hammer in the back. In the pics I've seen, the hammer appears to be stamped and lightweight, which makes up for the shape and long swing required to not interfere with the long bolt travel and ejection. http://www.all4shooters.com/en/specials/Trade-shows-2014/SHOT-show-2014/rifles/keltec-rdb-rifle/RDBFlyerLowRes-2.jpg?resize=930x870%3E your google skeels >>>> greater than my skeels thanks
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Posted: 3/23/2015 5:38:16 AM EDT
[#33]
So it ejects down behind the magazine? That's a nice spot to catch some hot 5.56 brass between your body and arm/elbow.
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Posted: 3/23/2015 9:00:36 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So it ejects down behind the magazine? That's a nice spot to catch some hot 5.56 brass between your body and arm/elbow. Easy brass catcher mounting 
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Posted: 3/23/2015 7:10:22 PM EDT
[#35]
I love how this is coming together! If i'm seeing this right are there 7 sling attachment points. I like the options as long as it doesn't add too much cost or offer too many risks of polymer breaking. Muzzle/barrel proximity to the polymer worries me a little. I hope you can get rid of the bottom rail...maybe this is a decent application for M-lock? |
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Posted: 3/23/2015 7:15:05 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
http://stwww.recoilweb.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Kel-Tec-RDB1-670x446.jpg I love how this is coming together! If i'm seeing this right are there 7 sling attachment points. I like the options as long as it doesn't add too much cost or offer too many risks of polymer breaking. Muzzle/barrel proximity to the polymer worries me a little. I hope you can get rid of the bottom rail...maybe this is a decent application for M-lock? For sling points, i think some of what you are looking at are pins and bolt holes. As for the bottom rail, pretty sure it's molded into the two halves of the forend, but I'm sure it could be cut off. |
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Posted: 3/23/2015 7:35:52 PM EDT
[#37]
I circled what i think are attachment points.
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Posted: 3/23/2015 8:01:00 PM EDT
[#38]
Ah, I figured the one on the sides of the ejection chute were something functional, and the top pic doesn't have the one on top of the butt plate. huh,,,
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Posted: 3/23/2015 8:48:04 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Well, how about vs an FS2000 - which is your other non-side-ejecting bullpup choice... Plenty I don't love about my FS2000, but the ejection is fantastic: change sides without doing anything and still avoid a faceful of brass! RDB is similar, though frankly I don't see why they didn't just do a 5.56mm RFB.... Richard Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
No way I would choose it over an AUG or Tavor Well, how about vs an FS2000 - which is your other non-side-ejecting bullpup choice... Plenty I don't love about my FS2000, but the ejection is fantastic: change sides without doing anything and still avoid a faceful of brass! RDB is similar, though frankly I don't see why they didn't just do a 5.56mm RFB.... Richard Dpprobably because the 5.56 arena was getting tight; 7.62 has more open space. Just my .02 |
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Posted: 3/23/2015 10:05:37 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm interested to hear what war the tavor has proven itself in... You mean you did not see "World War Z"?
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Posted: 3/24/2015 12:15:00 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Dpprobably because the 5.56 arena was getting tight; 7.62 has more open space. Just my .02 Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
No way I would choose it over an AUG or Tavor Well, how about vs an FS2000 - which is your other non-side-ejecting bullpup choice... Plenty I don't love about my FS2000, but the ejection is fantastic: change sides without doing anything and still avoid a faceful of brass! RDB is similar, though frankly I don't see why they didn't just do a 5.56mm RFB.... Richard Dpprobably because the 5.56 arena was getting tight; 7.62 has more open space. Just my .02 No, I meant why did Kel-Tec do the RDB 5.56 design afresh instead of just/first building a 5.56 version of the RFB. RFB is cool, and yes, went into the 7.62 market basically alone, but then why not a quick downsize to 5.56? One presumes it's a bit costly to make, thus the desire for a different design in 5.56... Richard |
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Posted: 3/24/2015 1:37:35 PM EDT
[#42]
I strongly suspect they had issues getting the tilting bot design to work well with AR magazines. It's been stated that one of the reasons the RFB uses FAL magazines is that the feed lip geometry works well for a tilting bolt design (which of course an FAL is). I'm not aware of a functional 5.56mm weapon with a tilting bolt that feeds from an AR magazine. The experimental Imbel MD-1 was a direct down-scaling of the FAL to 5.56mm, and it didn't work well at all-- hence why the MD-2 and 3 replaced the tilting bolt with a rotating one.
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Posted: 3/24/2015 7:19:51 PM EDT
[#43]
would be nice to see a user replaceable grip, so that between the grip and the handguard the aftermarket could offer something other than the hideous keltec waffle pattern.
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Posted: 3/24/2015 10:14:08 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
would be nice to see a user replaceable grip, so that between the grip and the handguard the aftermarket could offer something other than the hideous keltec waffle pattern. I threw a Hogue slip-on grip sleeve on my RFB, it made it more comfortable for my big hands. |
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Posted: 3/24/2015 11:24:12 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I strongly suspect they had issues getting the tilting bot design to work well with AR magazines. It's been stated that one of the reasons the RFB uses FAL magazines is that the feed lip geometry works well for a tilting bolt design (which of course an FAL is). I'm not aware of a functional 5.56mm weapon with a tilting bolt that feeds from an AR magazine. The experimental Imbel MD-1 was a direct down-scaling of the FAL to 5.56mm, and it didn't work well at all-- hence why the MD-2 and 3 replaced the tilting bolt with a rotating one. |
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Posted: 3/24/2015 11:38:41 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I strongly suspect they had issues getting the tilting bot design to work well with AR magazines. It's been stated that one of the reasons the RFB uses FAL magazines is that the feed lip geometry works well for a tilting bolt design (which of course an FAL is). I'm not aware of a functional 5.56mm weapon with a tilting bolt that feeds from an AR magazine. The experimental Imbel MD-1 was a direct down-scaling of the FAL to 5.56mm, and it didn't work well at all-- hence why the MD-2 and 3 replaced the tilting bolt with a rotating one. All good points, thanks for the insight! Richard |
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Posted: 5/23/2015 10:59:58 PM EDT
[#47]
It isn't a military proven weapon. I'd try one for under $1K, though.
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Posted: 5/23/2015 11:04:29 PM EDT
[#48]
The short stroke piston design has its drawbacks when compared to the long stroke Tavor. The Israeli's settled on the well proven long stroke design for reliability.
The multi-lug, rotating bolt lock up system (Stoner) is good, though. |
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Posted: 5/23/2015 11:10:41 PM EDT
[#49]
The Tavor has proven itself, butter balls. Go play pocket pool with your "buddies".
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Posted: 5/24/2015 12:32:59 AM EDT
[#50]
triple post thread necro. Florida wins again!
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