User Panel
Today I tested some different mag pouches. An AUG 30 round mag fits in the same slots as an AR Mag fine, using this:
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/939189814/midwayusa-4-magazine-pouch-ar-15-and-ak-47-rifle?cm_vc=ProductFinding A 42 round fits as well, but the velcro won't close, making that not ideal. Someone said an AUG 42 is the same length as an AK 30. So I checked: Turns out, it really is a lot closer than I thought. The AUG 42 is about a quarter inch longer. So, I tried an old AK chest Rig: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/SURPLUS-CHINESE-TPYE-81-AK-CHEST-RIG-AMMO-POUCH-31270/826626306.html And sure enough, it does fit: But pretty snug. There is tension on the keeper in fact. So it's not ideal in the AK chest rig, but does fit and it does clasp. By the way, to the age old question of: "How many Mags do I need?". The answer appears to be before us. For a long time, 3 30 round mags plus one in the gun was enough. I know some folks like to buy many dozens of mags, but for the longest time, if you had 4 quality 30 round mags, you were pretty much set - and so the Chinese and Vietnamese ordinance departments thought as well. I have never needed more than 4. |
|
How many mags do you need?
Well, lets take a look at "combat load outs" I have carried. Then ask yourself, if you are a civilian, do you need even close to that? Basic load out when was in the US Army = 210 rounds. Six thirty round mags in two ammo pouches, plus one with the rifle. This was standard issue when I was in a Ranger Bat. When in Kosovo, for my go to rig, had 8 Thirty round mags for the M-4 in a tactical tailor vest. Plus had the Beretta with two spare mags. When I was in Iraq = 9 thirty round mags on the vest, plus one mag in the rifle. One 15 round Mag for the SIG 226, and 3 extra mags as backup. For awhile was carrying the M249 SAW in Iraq. Had 200 round with the SAW, one extra 200 round box attached to myself, and had 6 thirty round mags on the vest as well (found these heavy duty steel, made in Singapore mags we had, worked flawlessly in the SAW, and in a pinch were quicker to reload if you had to compared to loading another box of linked 5.56mm) For Law Enforcement personnel I trained in Cambodia, doing border patrols in protected areas combatting illegal loggers, poachers, drug traffickers? One thirty round AK mag loaded with 25 rounds is what most of the conservation rangers had. That is it. For me, one thirty round mag for a AR-15 and one twenty round mag in reserve. For the military police or border patrol police or RCAF attached, their load out was as above - three AK mags plus one AK mag in the pouch. In other words, 2-3 mags for most civilian self defense applications will be more than over kill. For a civilians "bug out bag" for the AUG - I think a AK mag pouch chest rig with three 30/42 mags would be more than adequate. Plus a trusted side arm with a couple mags and don't see any issue. Hec, for a bug out bag, I would spend more money and space in a ruck for medical supplies, toilet paper, water pure tablets, and food than I would ammo. |
|
I see a difference between how many mags you may need vs how many you should have.
You only need one pair of shoes, but how many shoes do you have? 10 mags minimum per gun. |
|
Don't know how this morphed from group tests to magazine possession; anyhow:
Greatly appreciate and thanks to all those who post accuracy tests (especially the 200 yard tests), but, as others have also posted in the past: PLEASE For those not already doing it, consider shooting more meaningful group tests; five shots minimum, with ten shots total on one group even better. Much like 50 yard testing, three shot groups really don't provide much to judge from. NRA tests with five, five shot groups, and averages them. Once read an article where the author tested six .308 rifles; fired one 3 shot group from each, then ranked them for accuracy. Six guns tested on less than one box of ammo! |
|
Quoted:
Don't know how this morphed from group tests to magazine possession; anyhow: Greatly appreciate and thanks to all those who post accuracy tests (especially the 200 yard tests), but, as others have also posted in the past: PLEASE For those not already doing it, consider shooting more meaningful group tests; five shots minimum, with ten shots total on one group even better. Much like 50 yard testing, three shot groups really don't provide much to judge from. NRA tests with five, five shot groups, and averages them. Once read an article where the author tested six .308 rifles; fired one 3 shot group from each, then ranked them for accuracy. Six guns tested on less than one box of ammo! View Quote True, but it was done more as an indicator then a definitive performance trial. As it so happens, I did about 3 or 4 five shot groups at 200 with the 55 ball load that day, all giving about the same performance results. The purpose of the tests really was to monitor point of impact affects of different loads at different ranges, and simple 3 shot groups were adequate to get the degree of data I wanted for that analysis. For this gun, this ammo, and these goals - it was good enough. |
|
|
Installed a Giles Wilderness Tactical sling. $13 for a pretty cool sling: How could I say no? http://www.ebay.com/itm/111569230925
Mixed emotions on it. It's a heavy weight sling (for already a heavy gun), and is more complicated than simple strap. And can get underfoot if you're not familiar with it (which I'm not). But it's also pretty neat, because you can hang the rifle by your side in a patrol mans hold with this sling, and still shoulders very quickly. I mounted it on the right side of the rifle, to keep it from interfering with cocking operations. |
|
Quoted:
Target Sports is having a good sale on this case - though it doesn't come with all the pockets pictured, just the 3 mag item. http://www.targetsportsusa.com/images/Product/large/54117.jpg FYI, here's what an 18 looks like in it http://i59.tinypic.com/1nzo7b.jpg This looks more like a case for a 20" BBL AUG, but it fits good all the same. For owners of 16" AUG's, I'd look at 28" cases. View Quote Here's a review of the perfect case for a 16" AUG: http://bullpupforum.com/index.php?topic=7218.0 I ordered one off Amazon based on that review; cost me just a little over $60. |
|
|
|
Quoted: Oh my. If I read that right, that's a 30 shot string with an extreme spread of about 2" at 100 yards. That's exceptional. I can barely do that with match ammo in a 5 shot string. Apparently I need to find some of this "Carl Gustof" ammo! View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Oh my. If I read that right, that's a 30 shot string with an extreme spread of about 2" at 100 yards. That's exceptional. I can barely do that with match ammo in a 5 shot string. Apparently I need to find some of this "Carl Gustof" ammo! we've got a thread going on it here...http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_16/649168_Carl_Gustaf_NATO_5_56X45__223_62grn.html it runs hot and is smoky but AUG users have had no problems |
|
Quoted:
Oh my. If I read that right, that's a 30 shot string with an extreme spread of about 2" at 100 yards. That's exceptional. I can barely do that with match ammo in a 5 shot string. Apparently I need to find some of this "Carl Gustof" ammo! View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Oh my. If I read that right, that's a 30 shot string with an extreme spread of about 2" at 100 yards. That's exceptional. I can barely do that with match ammo in a 5 shot string. Apparently I need to find some of this "Carl Gustof" ammo! |
|
Quoted:
3.5" with 3 fliers (6.5"-7" with the fliers) View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
Oh my. If I read that right, that's a 30 shot string with an extreme spread of about 2" at 100 yards. That's exceptional. I can barely do that with match ammo in a 5 shot string. Apparently I need to find some of this "Carl Gustof" ammo! Those two shots way off to the left are part of that group? Ouch. Funny thing about fliers, you never know when the next one is going to be. After reading up on the Carl Gustof ammo - not a chance. A steel jacketed bullet over a steel core, with no soft lead layer to take the deformation; fired at high pressure? Barrel life must be measured in the hundreds of rounds, rather than thousands! Forget that, especially since it's not even cheaper. |
|
2/8/2015 - fired 10 rounds of IMI M193 ammo at 50 yards. no failures of any kind. Zero seemed close enough
Total Round Count: 260 |
|
Quoted: I was on the edge, then another member of AR15.com got one, to my exact specs of interest - and posted this picture. http://i1368.photobucket.com/albums/ag167/jeffro556/augstump2_zps5ca70179.jpg (Photo stolen from 62GMC: come to Texas and beers shall be had) By they way, they only made 200 of the 18" BBL's, so glad I did it this way, as waiting could have been costly. -The quick-change barrel removal. LOVE this. OK, doubt I'll ever have multiple barrels, -The 1/9 twist rate. This is a raging debate, but the fact of the matter is my intention for this gun is to shooting 55 gr FMJ up to 75 gr Match bullets. I have no intention of shooting extra long tracers in arctic conditions, and 1/9 stabilizes 75 gr. 1/9 is more inherently accurate with a broader spectrum of 55 and 62 gr bullets than 1/7 (excessive RPM's cause bullets with an imperfect 2nd Moment of Inertia (i.e. cheap) to wobble and corkscrew in flight) View Quote Only 200? Now I'm even more glad I got one. I wonder if they're going to make more. I still want the 24" w/ bipod too. Looks sweet. Mainly 55 and 62 for me. I've had it out shooting only a few times so far, and wasn't able to spend a lot of time, so I still need to get it sighted in. (Terrible I know) Once the weather gets a bit nicer, I'll see what groups I can manage. One thing I plan to fix so far on mine is to do just a tad bit of rounding of the safety switch corners with a file. That thing has some sharp edges. Make it a little more in line with the smoothness of the rest of the rifle. I'd like to get a 10 rnd mag for bench shooting too. |
|
im partial to pelican cases
AUG CQC A3 breaks down nicely and the 10 mags fit perfectly. |
|
Ordered a RatWorx 2020 sear - might as well since one was available. Installation wasn't what I'd call a snap, but doable.
So like everyone says, the creep and reset are massively better. But for reasons I don't understand, the weight went back up - to about 8# 5oz or so. That's pretty heavy. Neu was around 7# (still heavy) I haven't decide which is the better trade. To be honest, I'm kind of leaning towards Neutrigger. But I'll try this on the range and see how it goes. |
|
I have one of each, in both of my 18" Augs. To be honest, I cannot feel the difference - both are an improvement over factory trigger. But, i would advise getting the Neu-trigger since cost is substantially less, much much easier to install and does pretty much the same thing as far as i can tell.
|
|
Quoted:
I have one of each, in both of my 18" Augs. To be honest, I cannot feel the difference - both are an improvement over factory trigger. But, i would advise getting the Neu-trigger since cost is substantially less, much much easier to install and does pretty much the same thing as far as i can tell. View Quote That's kind of my advice. They are both much better, and Neu is a lot more cost effective. I guess I can tell the difference between Neu and 2020, but the trade off is really close. The thing I don't get, is why the heck is 2020 heavier than the Neutrigger? Ok, the Neutrigger has a thickness to it, and a slick polish to it, which apparently is helping somehow with the weight (and also in theory adds slightly to the creep though). So why didn't they just change the dimensions and polish 2020 a scosche more, to give you the advantage of the lighter Neutrigger, combined with their better creep control? I'm tempted to put a Neutrigger on a 2020, but from what everyone says, combining trigger mods is a really really bad idea, so I haven't. On another note, the AUG spare parts kit I ordered with the trigger, has an extractor that looks like it was cast is someone's garage. Appalled that someone did something funny here, I pulled apart my AUG, and sure enough, same thing. Steyr apparently has decided that lumpy cast extractors are indeed the way to go. It works, so I guess that's all that matters. |
|
Quoted:
That's kind of my advice. They are both much better, and Neu is a lot more cost effective. I guess I can tell the difference between Neu and 2020, but the trade off is really close. The thing I don't get, is why the heck is 2020 heavier than the Neutrigger? Ok, the Neutrigger has a thickness to it, and a slick polish to it, which apparently is helping somehow with the weight (and also in theory adds slightly to the creep though). So why didn't they just change the dimensions and polish 2020 a scosche more, to give you the advantage of the lighter Neutrigger, combined with their better creep control? I'm tempted to put a Neutrigger on a 2020, but from what everyone says, combining trigger mods is a really really bad idea, so I haven't. On another note, the AUG spare parts kit I ordered with the trigger, has an extractor that looks like it was cast is someone's garage. Appalled that someone did something funny here, I pulled apart my AUG, and sure enough, same thing. Steyr apparently has decided that lumpy cast extractors are indeed the way to go. It works, so I guess that's all that matters. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
I have one of each, in both of my 18" Augs. To be honest, I cannot feel the difference - both are an improvement over factory trigger. But, i would advise getting the Neu-trigger since cost is substantially less, much much easier to install and does pretty much the same thing as far as i can tell. That's kind of my advice. They are both much better, and Neu is a lot more cost effective. I guess I can tell the difference between Neu and 2020, but the trade off is really close. The thing I don't get, is why the heck is 2020 heavier than the Neutrigger? Ok, the Neutrigger has a thickness to it, and a slick polish to it, which apparently is helping somehow with the weight (and also in theory adds slightly to the creep though). So why didn't they just change the dimensions and polish 2020 a scosche more, to give you the advantage of the lighter Neutrigger, combined with their better creep control? I'm tempted to put a Neutrigger on a 2020, but from what everyone says, combining trigger mods is a really really bad idea, so I haven't. On another note, the AUG spare parts kit I ordered with the trigger, has an extractor that looks like it was cast is someone's garage. Appalled that someone did something funny here, I pulled apart my AUG, and sure enough, same thing. Steyr apparently has decided that lumpy cast extractors are indeed the way to go. It works, so I guess that's all that matters. I too have the 2020 mod in my NATO AUG. I can definitely live with this trigger now. However, I too have thought about the Neutrigger mod, but I figured the 2020 negated this option as I hadn't heard anyone speak about it. So...has no one tried an NT in combo with a 2020? I just figured there was some dimensional issue introduced by the 2020 versus the OEM unit...but maybe not. I don't think combining trigger mods is a no-go in itself as long as they don't contribute to an unsafe condition. |
|
You will be MUCH FASTER with a true 1x optic, whether it be an Aimpoint, or a 1-4 or 1-6 variable set at 1x.
It is this style of shooting which stops me from getting an AUG optic, and sticking with the rail only version. There is nothing the AUG optic does that isn't done better with other optics. Great 1980-90's technology, but outdated now. If Steyr want to go to the next generation, then they need to build a 1-3 or 4x ruggedized, illuminated optic, with NV settings. Mick Quoted:
Fired around 70 rounds through my AUG today. Both 200 yard shooting, and run & gun shooting. 200 yard shooting went well. It's remarkable how well this gun holds zero, even after pulling the barrel out and putting it back in. I'll post a photo, but happy with the groupings. The run and gun is a new realm for me, and man that stuff is fun. But I don't really know the normal system. I put out 8 targets at about 25-30 yards. A brought a 16" light weight profile M4 and my AUG. Course of fire was to load 15 rounds each into two mags. Start a timer. Engage double taps on each target at distance (with obviously only 1 round on the last one). Then drop mag, grab second mag, and run to 10 yards, load, and repeat. The M4 had a 2.5X Primary Arms CQB scope. It's a great scope for this. The AUG had a 3X, and for this type shooting, I can see how the 1.5 has the appeal. Because I was just a second or so slower with the AUG, it does take a bit longer to acquire the next target and recoil recover, than a lighter power. The 8# AUG trigger doesn't help, even with the 2020 sear. But wow, what a rush, double taping is fun. Mag reloads weren't really an issue, I didn't even notice it. The M4 had a light weight profile barrel, and that sucker heated up and was smoking in no time. The AUG barrel really never got that hot, and never smoked. Total round count: 330 View Quote |
|
Quoted:
You will be MUCH FASTER with a true 1x optic, whether it be an Aimpoint, or a 1-4 or 1-6 variable set at 1x. It is this style of shooting which stops me from getting an AUG optic, and sticking with the rail only version. There is nothing the AUG optic does that isn't done better with other optics. Great 1980-90's technology, but outdated now. If Steyr want to go to the next generation, then they need to build a 1-3 or 4x ruggedized, illuminated optic, with NV settings. Mick View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
You will be MUCH FASTER with a true 1x optic, whether it be an Aimpoint, or a 1-4 or 1-6 variable set at 1x. It is this style of shooting which stops me from getting an AUG optic, and sticking with the rail only version. There is nothing the AUG optic does that isn't done better with other optics. Great 1980-90's technology, but outdated now. If Steyr want to go to the next generation, then they need to build a 1-3 or 4x ruggedized, illuminated optic, with NV settings. Mick Quoted:
Fired around 70 rounds through my AUG today. Both 200 yard shooting, and run & gun shooting. 200 yard shooting went well. It's remarkable how well this gun holds zero, even after pulling the barrel out and putting it back in. I'll post a photo, but happy with the groupings. The run and gun is a new realm for me, and man that stuff is fun. But I don't really know the normal system. I put out 8 targets at about 25-30 yards. A brought a 16" light weight profile M4 and my AUG. Course of fire was to load 15 rounds each into two mags. Start a timer. Engage double taps on each target at distance (with obviously only 1 round on the last one). Then drop mag, grab second mag, and run to 10 yards, load, and repeat. The M4 had a 2.5X Primary Arms CQB scope. It's a great scope for this. The AUG had a 3X, and for this type shooting, I can see how the 1.5 has the appeal. Because I was just a second or so slower with the AUG, it does take a bit longer to acquire the next target and recoil recover, than a lighter power. The 8# AUG trigger doesn't help, even with the 2020 sear. But wow, what a rush, double taping is fun. Mag reloads weren't really an issue, I didn't even notice it. The M4 had a light weight profile barrel, and that sucker heated up and was smoking in no time. The AUG barrel really never got that hot, and never smoked. Total round count: 330 I agree. I run a super sniper 1-4x on my aug and wouldn't have it any other way unless steyr made an optic specifically in 1-3/4x. The 3x is nice but up close you have too much magnification and the 1.5 is too little magnification for long range shots... |
|
8/1/2015 update. Fired 50 rounds of various handloads and factory loads. No failures of any kind. Performance details and notes below.
High Power service rifle targets set up at 200 yards, fired from a bench in 5 shot groups. Used the integrated 3X scope that comes with the A3M1. A photo of the view is shown below. (inverted, these pictures are tough to do with an iPhone) Interestingly, the reticle seemed a bit fuzzy at home in short range, but was extremely solid and clear at 200 yards today. Frankly, these groups should be taken with a grain of salt. It was difficult to allign that low power scope well and hold on target at 200 yards with that trigger. I suspect these groups are more of a limitation of the user ability to hold, than the loading and AUG itself. But to report it anyway, this is the Average of multiple groups fired: 55 gr Hornady ball with 23.6 gr IMR3031: 1.5 MOA, (0.55 MOA Avg2Center) Wolf Gold 55 ball: 2.0 MOA, (0.68 MOA A2C) (Link to photo of one of the groupings) American Eagle 50 gr Varmint: 1.9 MOA, (0.70 MOA A2C) (Link to photo of one of the groupings) All 3 ammo's had essentially the same point of impact For more data: single string of 5 shot results of some additional loads tested 75 gr Hornady match handloads with RE15: 1.85 MOA; (0.713 MOA A2C) - impact was ~ 1 MOA higher than 55 ball loads. (Link to photo of grouping - not3 higher point of impact compact) 80 gr Sierra Match King - long single-load National Match loads: (4.2 MOA, 1.5 A2C) (one shot missing, later found on next target) ~ 3 MOA higher than 55 ball loads. Link to photo of grouping - note poor accuracy and high PoI) 36 gr Barnes solid handload with Re12: 2.5 MOA, (0.864 A2C). ~ 3 MOA lower than 55 ball loads. As a side note: The heavier the bullet, the more the brass was found to the side. The lighter the bullet, the further to the rear the brass landed. Conclusions: -Wolf Gold and American Eagle varmint 50 gr loads were both good rounds at about 2 MOA accuracy. (Considering both can be had for about 30 cents right now, either are recommended buys to stock up.) They did not outperform the indicated 55 gr Hornady handload though. (I had expected the American Eagle to do so, but then, this may just be shooter limitation). -Heavier rounds (i.e 75 and 80 gr) impact higher at 200 yards (likely due to recoil lifting the muzzle). -The AUG 1/9 BBL stabilizes 75 gr bullets just fine, but does not stabilize the 80 gr bullet sufficiently for it to group (no surprise - though they weren't keyholing - which I was half expecting). Total round count: 380 |
|
8/17/2015 update. Fired 60 rounds in scenario drills. No failures of any kind.
Did some drills involving 50 yard off-hand shooting, followed by running up to 10 yards reload, and rapid engagement. Used mostly 55 gr ball loads, and full 30 round magazines, and partial 42 round magazines. Observed that off-hand the AUG was able to accurately hit plate sized targets at 50 yards quickly, with the scope working well, and that distance being about the zero-distance of the scope (a 200 yard zero crosses close at 50 yards too). Found the gun to handle very well during running, with the free hand able to easily extract the fresh magazine from a pocket, while the main hand stabilized the well balanced rifle while afoot. Reloads went smoothly. Did not experience any issues getting magazines to seat quickly and reliably, nor any issues of round jumps upon insertion. Though did have a round pop out when I dropped a loaded mag on the concrete - not a concern. At 10 yard engagement, all shots went low. Which is not surprising, since the bore is ~3" below the scope. Shot recovery is also slightly slower at 10 yards, than it would be with a lower power scope. I tried point firing (unaimed) super-rapid fire into one of the targets, figuring 4 super quick trigger pulls at 10 yards would equal 2 quick but slightly aimed shots. I figured wrong. (this isn't a platform issue, so much as shooter technique/learning issue). This is the funnest style shooting ever. Rifle put away without additional cleaning or lubrication. Total round count: 440 |
|
Quoted:
8/1/2015 update. Fired 50 rounds of various handloads and factory loads. No failures of any kind. Performance details and notes below. High Power service rifle targets set up at 200 yards, fired from a bench in 5 shot groups. Used the integrated 3X scope that comes with the A3M1. A photo of the view is shown below. (inverted, these pictures are tough to do with an iPhone) http://i61.tinypic.com/2507dxt.jpg Interestingly, the reticle seemed a bit fuzzy at home in short range, but was extremely solid and clear at 200 yards today. Frankly, these groups should be taken with a grain of salt. It was difficult to allign that low power scope well and hold on target at 200 yards with that trigger. I suspect these groups are more of a limitation of the user ability to hold, than the loading and AUG itself. But to report it anyway, this is the Average of multiple groups fired: 55 gr Hornady ball with 23.6 gr IMR3031: 1.5 MOA, (0.55 MOA Avg2Center) Wolf Gold 55 ball: 2.0 MOA, (0.68 MOA A2C) (Link to photo of one of the groupings) American Eagle 50 gr Varmint: 1.9 MOA, (0.70 MOA A2C) (Link to photo of one of the groupings) All 3 ammo's had essentially the same point of impact For more data: single string of 5 shot results of some additional loads tested 75 gr Hornady match handloads with RE15: 1.85 MOA; (0.713 MOA A2C) - impact was ~ 1 MOA higher than 55 ball loads. (Link to photo of grouping - not3 higher point of impact compact) 80 gr Sierra Match King - long single-load National Match loads: (4.2 MOA, 1.5 A2C) (one shot missing, later found on next target) ~ 3 MOA higher than 55 ball loads. Link to photo of grouping - note poor accuracy and high PoI) 36 gr Barnes solid handload with Re12: 2.5 MOA, (0.864 A2C). ~ 3 MOA lower than 55 ball loads. As a side note: The heavier the bullet, the more the brass was found to the side. The lighter the bullet, the further to the rear the brass landed. Conclusions: -Wolf Gold and American Eagle varmint 50 gr loads were both good rounds at about 2 MOA accuracy. (Considering both can be had for about 30 cents right now, either are recommended buys to stock up.) They did not outperform the indicated 55 gr Hornady handload though. (I had expected the American Eagle to do so, but then, this may just be shooter limitation). -Heavier rounds (i.e 75 and 80 gr) impact higher at 200 yards (likely due to recoil lifting the muzzle). -The AUG 1/9 BBL stabilizes 75 gr bullets just fine, but does not stabilize the 80 gr bullet sufficiently for it to group (no surprise - though they weren't keyholing - which I was half expecting). Total round count: 380 View Quote Mine groups like that, but at 100 yards. Does your barrel have any wiggle to it? Mine does, but I've been told it is normal. |
|
Quoted:
Mine groups like that, but at 100 yards. Does your barrel have any wiggle to it? Mine does, but I've been told it is normal. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
... 55 gr Hornady ball with 23.6 gr IMR3031: 1.5 MOA, (0.55 MOA Avg2Center) Wolf Gold 55 ball: 2.0 MOA, (0.68 MOA A2C) (Link to photo of one of the groupings) American Eagle 50 gr Varmint: 1.9 MOA, (0.70 MOA A2C) (Link to photo of one of the groupings) All 3 ammo's had essentially the same point of impact For more data: single string of 5 shot results of some additional loads tested 75 gr Hornady match handloads with RE15: 1.85 MOA; (0.713 MOA A2C) - impact was ~ 1 MOA higher than 55 ball loads. (Link to photo of grouping - not3 higher point of impact compact) 80 gr Sierra Match King - long single-load National Match loads: (4.2 MOA, 1.5 A2C) (one shot missing, later found on next target) ~ 3 MOA higher than 55 ball loads. Link to photo of grouping - note poor accuracy and high PoI) 36 gr Barnes solid handload with Re12: 2.5 MOA, (0.864 A2C). ~ 3 MOA lower than 55 ball loads. ,,,, Mine groups like that, but at 100 yards. Does your barrel have any wiggle to it? Mine does, but I've been told it is normal. When you say" groups like that, but at 100 yards": you are aware results are posted as MOA? So yes, that would be expected for yours to have similar MOA groupings at 100 yards. On the other hand, if you are suggesting your rifle is shooting ~4" 5-shot groups at 100 yards (WITH GOOD AMMO), then yes, something is amiss with your rifle. Have a friend who is a known-good rifleman try it, and have him use several brands of good quality ammo to do so. If your rifle can't beat 2.5 MOA on average with any good quality ammo at all, then I would contact Steyr. (obviously if you are using crap like Wolf Steel or 62 gr ball ammo - then this does not apply) As to wiggle, I haven't really noticed any. |
|
9/7/2015 updated. Fired 100 rounds of CCI Lawman M193 + 5 rounds of Wolf Steel. No failures of any kind.
Also, the Wolf steel fired fine. I won't make that regular food for it, but it was laying around. Tested the Grenade setting (Actually, since steel doesn't spring back quite like brass, I did this on purpose to get a decent chamber impression, via that steel casing). As expected, it was difficult to extract the fired steel casing by hand, but using the mortar technique, it popped out just fine. Turned gas setting back to normal, and fired the rest of the steel and other ammo. Observed that the Lawman seemed to be shooting low at just 50 yards. This frustrated me, as I thought the rifle was zeroed for 200 yards, which equaled 50 yards - as demonstrated in prior posts to this thread. To recap, prior testing showed that 55 ball had the following arc for a 200 yard zero (which it was supposed to still be at): 25 yards - 4.5 MOA low (~1.2" low) 50 yards - ~ spot on 100 yards - 1.2 MOA high (~1.2") 200 yards - ~ spot on. (note this was as fired from sandbags with front of rifle being supported under the stock - not with the vertical fore grip, which contacts the barrel) So my expectation was that at 50 yards I would be spot on. But my 50 yard offhand shooting was all coming in low, maybe 2-3" low. So I did a spot-bench style shooting, this time resting the gun on the vertical fore-grip. Confirmed, the CCI was hitting 4 MOA (2") low at 50 yards. To check, shot at 100 yards, and there it was hitting 2 MOA low. Not as terrible, but that's still ~3.5 MOA lower than it should have been hitting at 100 yards, per my above prior data and nominal expectation from ballistic charts and experience. THEN, I remembered that (as posted prior in this thread even - geez), the CCI Lawman naturally shoots lower in this AUG. So another string was shown at 100 with different ammo, and this was about 1.5 MOA low. So still low. Somewhere the gun zero drifted down by 2-3 MOA. This annoys me, but perhaps I just need to have a beer and relax, since this was mostly with non-typically used ammo that's I know moves around a lot. So I'm probably over-analyzing this. I'm not sure if this is normal, if it has to do with using the VFG as the rifle rest, or what. To do: return to the range with my more typical 55 ball, and see where the zero really is, at 50 and 100 yards (200 if time allows). Rifle has been cleaned and now and has 2 more clicks of vertical elevation on. (which I need to confirm how many clicks = how much MOA). Upon cleaning, noticed the foam bore cleaner turned blue to a degree, indicating there was a good amount of copper fouling in that barrel from this outing. Total round count: 545 |
|
you can't expect a different load to have the same POI as what you zero'd with. bullet BC, velocity, even temperate differences will all come into play. you may also be pulling down slightly on the vfg when you fire
|
|
9/13/2015 updated. Fired 75 rounds of various loads. No failures of any kind.
Conducted a serious of bench tests at 200 yards in order to determine point of impact as a function of ammunition fired. This was done in part because I observed M193 hitting almost 4 MOA lower than my own 55 gr ball handloads on a prior outing. Test results (Shown below) indicate this result is consistent and not likely an indicator of zero-drift. Results are discussed in depth in a separate thread: http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_43/451151_Steyr_AUG_point_of_impact_study___results_summarized.html (note, target is for 200 yards, and grids are in inches. MOA is roughly half the number of grids) Total round count: 620 |
|
Fired 30 rounds of mild ball and 75 gr match ammo. No failures of any kind.
Observed the above mentioned zero's are still fairly true. Double checked zero's and photographed dial sight settings, as a reference for sight settings when shooting in the future. Also, did the semi-common trick of rigged up some Velcro on the side, and a more Velcro on a small piece of plastic - as a stock-store-able case deflector. I can't say I care for left hand shooting an AUG, as your cheek weld is still weird. But it worked. Did some run and gun shooting as well - close range. In comparison to an M4, the recoil/return to fire of an AUG was really pleasant. It wants to get back on target and is really easy to squeeze of shoots while on your feet and moving around. Downrange performance wasn't any better, just felt more fun with the AUG. For bench testing, a shorter AUG magazine than the 30 is serviceable, but at times a shorter 20 round would probably be better. Rifle still not cleaned, and put away that way. Total Round count: 650 |
|
9/21/2015 update: Fired 30 rounds of mixed Wolf and 75 gr reloads. No failures of any kind.
Today wanted to Chronograph some more ammo in the 18" BBL. Wolf Gold: 3040fps 75 gr mild handloads: 2533 The handloads are ridiculously slow, even though the recoil is considerably more pronounced. I'll be adjusting that load. Wolf Gold is decently close to expectations. Perhaps around 50 fps less than I would have anticipated. For reference, the CCI Lawman (which is basically M193) chrono'd at a zippy 3200 FPS out of the AUG in prior tests, or about 160 FPS faster than the Wolf Gold. Total Round count: 680 |
|
Quoted: 9/21/2015 update: Fired 30 rounds of mixed Wolf and 75 gr reloads. No failures of any kind. Today wanted to Chronograph some more ammo in the 18" BBL. Wolf Gold: 3040fps 75 gr mild handloads: 2533 The handloads are ridiculously slow, even though the recoil is considerably more pronounced. I'll be adjusting that load. Wolf Gold is decently close to expectations. Perhaps around 50 fps less than I would have anticipated. For reference, the CCI Lawman (which is basically M193) chrono'd at a zippy 3200 FPS out of the AUG in prior tests, or about 160 FPS faster than the Wolf Gold. Total Round count: 680 View Quote do you have any velocity info for rounds out of the AR you used in that POI test? it would be interesting to compare velocities between the AUG and the AR (even though the AUG barrel is 2" longer) |
|
Quoted:
That's kind of my advice. They are both much better, and Neu is a lot more cost effective. I guess I can tell the difference between Neu and 2020, but the trade off is really close. The thing I don't get, is why the heck is 2020 heavier than the Neutrigger? Ok, the Neutrigger has a thickness to it, and a slick polish to it, which apparently is helping somehow with the weight (and also in theory adds slightly to the creep though). So why didn't they just change the dimensions and polish 2020 a scosche more, to give you the advantage of the lighter Neutrigger, combined with their better creep control? I'm tempted to put a Neutrigger on a 2020, but from what everyone says, combining trigger mods is a really really bad idea, so I haven't. On another note, the AUG spare parts kit I ordered with the trigger, has an extractor that looks like it was cast is someone's garage. Appalled that someone did something funny here, I pulled apart my AUG, and sure enough, same thing. Steyr apparently has decided that lumpy cast extractors are indeed the way to go. It works, so I guess that's all that matters. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
I have one of each, in both of my 18" Augs. To be honest, I cannot feel the difference - both are an improvement over factory trigger. But, i would advise getting the Neu-trigger since cost is substantially less, much much easier to install and does pretty much the same thing as far as i can tell. That's kind of my advice. They are both much better, and Neu is a lot more cost effective. I guess I can tell the difference between Neu and 2020, but the trade off is really close. The thing I don't get, is why the heck is 2020 heavier than the Neutrigger? Ok, the Neutrigger has a thickness to it, and a slick polish to it, which apparently is helping somehow with the weight (and also in theory adds slightly to the creep though). So why didn't they just change the dimensions and polish 2020 a scosche more, to give you the advantage of the lighter Neutrigger, combined with their better creep control? I'm tempted to put a Neutrigger on a 2020, but from what everyone says, combining trigger mods is a really really bad idea, so I haven't. On another note, the AUG spare parts kit I ordered with the trigger, has an extractor that looks like it was cast is someone's garage. Appalled that someone did something funny here, I pulled apart my AUG, and sure enough, same thing. Steyr apparently has decided that lumpy cast extractors are indeed the way to go. It works, so I guess that's all that matters. Where did you pick up your AUG spare parts kit? |
|
Quoted:
Where did you pick up your AUG spare parts kit? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I have one of each, in both of my 18" Augs. To be honest, I cannot feel the difference - both are an improvement over factory trigger. But, i would advise getting the Neu-trigger since cost is substantially less, much much easier to install and does pretty much the same thing as far as i can tell. That's kind of my advice. They are both much better, and Neu is a lot more cost effective. I guess I can tell the difference between Neu and 2020, but the trade off is really close. The thing I don't get, is why the heck is 2020 heavier than the Neutrigger? Ok, the Neutrigger has a thickness to it, and a slick polish to it, which apparently is helping somehow with the weight (and also in theory adds slightly to the creep though). So why didn't they just change the dimensions and polish 2020 a scosche more, to give you the advantage of the lighter Neutrigger, combined with their better creep control? I'm tempted to put a Neutrigger on a 2020, but from what everyone says, combining trigger mods is a really really bad idea, so I haven't. On another note, the AUG spare parts kit I ordered with the trigger, has an extractor that looks like it was cast is someone's garage. Appalled that someone did something funny here, I pulled apart my AUG, and sure enough, same thing. Steyr apparently has decided that lumpy cast extractors are indeed the way to go. It works, so I guess that's all that matters. Where did you pick up your AUG spare parts kit? RATWORX. Pete has them too. Availability can be spotty, just check back from time to time. |
|
10/17/2015 update: Fired 100 rounds of mixed reloads, 3-gun style. No failures of any kind.
Had to adjust sights 1 click left. But then, this could have been due to the mixed ammo. A couple usage observations: 1) Observed that if ease the bolt close, rather than let fly, it can fail to go into battery (common to most guns - no surprises). Tried testing the "forward assist", by rotating the handle up, and pushing forward. But that didn't work, maybe I misunderstand, and it does not work that way. In any event, we finally just pulled the bolt back about half way, and let it go, then it closed. No issues there. 2) One usage item of note, hurt my left thumb this week in a biking incident (it'll be fine). The AUG mag release is quite left-thumb dependent. So to change mags on the run, had to use right hand instead, using the fingers wrapped under the mag release, and then shake out the mag. It actually worked quite well, as the mag's drop free. But if the mag stuck, that could have been an additional moments delay. Total round count: 700 |
|
try using the spine of the fresh mag to work the mag release
|
|
This thread has motivated me to pull the trigger (pun intended) on an AUGA3M1 with the high rail in mud. Got the LEO price from the dealer and it will be here next week. My plan is to put a T1 in a TBD LaRue mount on it and also buy "HK" or "Micro" irons as back up. Surefire 300U as the light and VTAC sling as the sling. I want to do something similar with keeping a log / diary as I put the rifle through its paces. I also want to put an IR laser on it and try some NVG shooting. I hit both CDNN and 44 mag for magazines. Do you prefer the 30 or the 42 rounders?
|
|
Quoted:
This thread has motivated me to pull the trigger (pun intended) on an AUGA3M1 with the high rail in mud. Got the LEO price from the dealer and it will be here next week. My plan is to put a T1 in a TBD LaRue mount on it and also buy "HK" or "Micro" irons as back up. Surefire 300U as the light and VTAC sling as the sling. I want to do something similar with keeping a log / diary as I put the rifle through its paces. I also want to put an IR laser on it and try some NVG shooting. I hit both CDNN and 44 mag for magazines. Do you prefer the 30 or the 42 rounders? View Quote Neat! I use 30's. I like the 42's and the fact they are cheaper than 30's, but what I actually find myself using more, are the 30's. I think if you get 6 30's and 4 42's, you're set for life. More won't hurt. If you get 3 30's and 2 42's, you'll be fine. Less then that is a little tight. |
|
Quoted:
Neat! I use 30's. I like the 42's and the fact they are cheaper than 30's, but what I actually find myself using more, are the 30's. I think if you get 6 30's and 4 42's, you're set for life. More won't hurt. If you get 3 30's and 2 42's, you'll be fine. Less then that is a little tight. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
This thread has motivated me to pull the trigger (pun intended) on an AUGA3M1 with the high rail in mud. Got the LEO price from the dealer and it will be here next week. My plan is to put a T1 in a TBD LaRue mount on it and also buy "HK" or "Micro" irons as back up. Surefire 300U as the light and VTAC sling as the sling. I want to do something similar with keeping a log / diary as I put the rifle through its paces. I also want to put an IR laser on it and try some NVG shooting. I hit both CDNN and 44 mag for magazines. Do you prefer the 30 or the 42 rounders? Neat! I use 30's. I like the 42's and the fact they are cheaper than 30's, but what I actually find myself using more, are the 30's. I think if you get 6 30's and 4 42's, you're set for life. More won't hurt. If you get 3 30's and 2 42's, you'll be fine. Less then that is a little tight. Thanks. I tend to go overboard on Mags so i'll probably end up with 30 or so!!!! Have you shot yours prone yet? im curious if the 42s interfere with going prone or if you can mono pod it and still stay low? once my rifle gets here im going to try various LaRue mounts for the ideal height. im thinking the Micros are the best height for irons. |
|
11/08/2015 update: Fired 85 rounds of mixed reloads, 3-gun style. I ammunition induced no fire, when it's primer fell out during cycling.
A friend was having a difficult time with his M4, due to his loads (misfires, FTE, etc). We tried them in my AUG, and on the second shot, the live primer fell out of his bad reload, and cause a failure to fire upon pulling the trigger. I always wondered what happened in an AUG if a primer pops out. Basically it's no big deal in an AUG, it doesn't end up locking the gun up, which can happen in an AR. But, as good as the AUG is, they don't tend to fire if the round is missing its primer. (After about 5 rounds, gave friend the rest of his ammo back). Total round count: 785 |
|
Great update and here's where I sit with mine. It's an AUG A3M1 long rail in the mud color. I added Troy micro HK buis and a T1 in the LaRue 660HK mount. I experimented with this mount, the regular height LaRue mount and the lowest T1 mount LaRue makes . The HK was perfect height and also allows the best cheek weld for me. I also mounted a VTAC padded along in coyote. Light is an X300U. I'm debating on if I want o remote switch it to the vertical grip. Spent the weekend practicing mag exchanges and dry fire up drills. I can get perfectly prone with the 30 round magazines. With the 42 it works like a mono pod but if I cant the weapon I can get as low as my kit allows. Shooting it either Wednesday or Thursday this week. Plan on zeroing it and then running various drills with it - navy qual, MEUSOC drill and etc. want to shoot about 600 rounds or so. I'll let you know how it goes.
|
|
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.