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Posted: 4/15/2014 7:18:43 PM EDT
[#1]
Because you don't have to buy licensing rights for AR or AK platforms in 3rd world countries?
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Posted: 4/15/2014 7:27:35 PM EDT
[#2]
Why buy or build, when you can get for free?
We hate America. Get free AKs from Soviet bloc countries. We hate commies. Get free M16s from America. |
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Posted: 4/15/2014 7:28:02 PM EDT
[#3]
Why buy new when the U.S. and the U.S.S.R (and other coms) give stuff away at rock bottom prices or for free.
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Posted: 4/15/2014 7:28:57 PM EDT
[#4]
Beat me to it by 30 seconds.
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Posted: 4/15/2014 9:16:23 PM EDT
[#5]
I believe Sudan is adopting the STANAG variety of the Chinese bullpup for their elite units (such as they are).
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Posted: 4/15/2014 9:19:01 PM EDT
[#6]
Too poor to develope or purchase them.
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Posted: 4/16/2014 9:13:43 AM EDT
[#7]
The Steyr AUG is in use by Austria, Australia, Argentina, Bolivia, Ecuador, Ireland, Luxembourg, Saudi Arabia, Tunisia, Pakistan, and I believe that ICE still has a pile of them.
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Posted: 4/16/2014 9:30:23 AM EDT
[#8]
+1
To me, whether the countries are emerging or developed, it would make more sense to adopt a platform that is reliable and meet the present/future needs, beside being more cost effective. Quote HistoryQuoted:
The Steyr AUG is in use by Austria, Australia, Argentina, Bolivia, Ecuador, Ireland, Luxembourg, Saudi Arabia, Tunisia, Pakistan, and I believe that ICE still has a pile of them. |
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Posted: 4/16/2014 9:48:21 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The Steyr AUG is in use by Austria, Australia, Argentina, Bolivia, Ecuador, Ireland, Luxembourg, Saudi Arabia, Tunisia, Pakistan, and I believe that ICE still has a pile of them. I've seen AUG's in Venezuela and Brasil. Can't say how many they actually have, but they are there. The US military has some AUG's also... I assume there are A LOT of countries with the AUG, but nothing available on it publicly. |
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Posted: 4/16/2014 10:16:11 AM EDT
[#10]
Scroll down to "Users". You'll be surprised what countries use them. That's just the AUG, too.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steyr_AUG |
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Posted: 4/16/2014 12:06:24 PM EDT
[#11]
just curious but how come most of Commonwealth spec ops use M4? Off thread but why?
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Posted: 4/16/2014 12:15:31 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
just curious but how come most of Commonwealth spec ops use M4? Off thread but why? Because they can blame it on the US? |
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Posted: 4/16/2014 12:16:48 PM EDT
[#13]
When you are absolutely on a budget with a new country and no cash flow.... AK47 ~ Cheap and about a days worth of training cost... |
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Posted: 4/16/2014 12:36:40 PM EDT
[#14]
actually lot of guys like M4, even non-Commonwealth countries like Japan. I believe Australian spec ops also like M4.
I think in terms of controls, M4 is fantastic but AUG points/mounts/maneuvers faster. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Because they can blame it on the US? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
just curious but how come most of Commonwealth spec ops use M4? Off thread but why? Because they can blame it on the US? |
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Posted: 4/16/2014 12:37:14 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
When you are absolutely on a budget with a new country and no cash flow.... AK47 ~ Cheap and about a days worth of training cost... +1 that is why Russian Federation stayed with AK74 with lot of AK47 still in use. |
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Posted: 4/16/2014 1:20:31 PM EDT
[#16]
Since the end of the cold war, militaries have had their forces reduced and their budgets slashed. Also the economic situation today forces militaries to be frugal with what they have.
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Posted: 4/16/2014 2:10:56 PM EDT
[#17]
They spent all of the money on hookers and crack.....not to mention the pudding incident of Dar fur.
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Posted: 4/16/2014 2:37:19 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I've seen AUG's in Venezuela and Brasil. Can't say how many they actually have, but they are there. The US military has some AUG's also... I assume there are A LOT of countries with the AUG, but nothing available on it publicly. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The Steyr AUG is in use by Austria, Australia, Argentina, Bolivia, Ecuador, Ireland, Luxembourg, Saudi Arabia, Tunisia, Pakistan, and I believe that ICE still has a pile of them. I've seen AUG's in Venezuela and Brasil. Can't say how many they actually have, but they are there. The US military has some AUG's also... I assume there are A LOT of countries with the AUG, but nothing available on it publicly. Augs are probably the most common bullpup in the world. Among others, Malaysia and Algeria uses the Aug as their service rifle. The Tavor has also been gaining alot of contracts these days. The Thai bought 100,000 to replace the m16a2 as their main service rifle. Colombia, Brazil, Ukraine, and India also bought licenses to produce Tavors. I've been seeing alot of them in Colombia, El Salvador, and other central American countries these days. |
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Posted: 4/16/2014 3:19:37 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
just curious but how come most of Commonwealth spec ops use M4? Off thread but why? AR's surpress well and between us Mil and civilians lots of various goodies to customize ars more than most things. As for the brits from everything I've read their service rifle is junk compared to the Tavor, AUG, or AR hence why no one else bought it. The freaking safety is on the butt stock if I recall correctly. |
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Posted: 4/16/2014 6:07:03 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
AR's suppress well and between us Mil and civilians lots of various goodies to customize ars more than most things. As for the brits from everything I've read their service rifle is junk compared to the Tavor, AUG, or AR hence why no one else bought it. The freaking safety is on the butt stock if I recall correctly. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
just curious but how come most of Commonwealth spec ops use M4? Off thread but why? AR's suppress well and between us Mil and civilians lots of various goodies to customize ars more than most things. As for the brits from everything I've read their service rifle is junk compared to the Tavor, AUG, or AR hence why no one else bought it. The freaking safety is on the butt stock if I recall correctly. L85A1: 
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Posted: 4/16/2014 6:52:38 PM EDT
[#21]
The SA80 is an absolute nightmare even after several overhauls
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Posted: 4/16/2014 6:58:50 PM EDT
[#22]
I heard the same thing but also, that shooting scores went up after they switched to bullpup. Ditto for Australians and other countries which went to bullpup.
IMHO, Brits should have just license produced the AUG. FWIW, Brits after WWII was very forward thinking with bullpup EM-2/280 British but US wanted .30cal. |
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Posted: 4/16/2014 7:05:11 PM EDT
[#23]
FWIW the safety on the Sa80 is above the trigger the lever on the right side is the bolt lock basically.
I agree that the US dictated to all the NATO countries that 7,62 would be the round it would use.... Yup, the Brits should have grabbed up the AUG but they would not accept anything but a domestic design. |
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Posted: 4/16/2014 7:15:17 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I believe Sudan is adopting the STANAG variety of the Chinese bullpup for their elite units (such as they are). http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/sudanese-future-soldier-1.jpg What a terrible photoshop. Anyway, AKs are cheap and easy to manufacture. M16s are free. Also, both of those weapons have long track records (not to say that some bullpups don't) |
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Posted: 4/16/2014 8:15:56 PM EDT
[#25]
Straight from the Australian Spec Ops guys that I have spoken to (SAS and Commando), the reason is two fold.
1) interoperability with US Spec Ops units, with whom they do a lot of work and joint ops. 2) Easier to hang stuff off an M4 due to the rail systems than an AUG Mick Quote HistoryQuoted:
just curious but how come most of Commonwealth spec ops use M4? Off thread but why? |
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Posted: 4/16/2014 8:21:25 PM EDT
[#26]
Scores went up only because of the optic on the AUG and the SA80.
The SA80 was a disaster because it was a design by committee and a lot of infighting. The story is well described in the book, "The Last Enfield". It is described as "an AR18 shoved up the arse of an EM2" Mick Quote HistoryQuoted:
I heard the same thing but also, that shooting scores went up after they switched to bullpup. Ditto for Australians and other countries which went to bullpup. IMHO, Brits should have just license produced the AUG. FWIW, Brits after WWII was very forward thinking with bullpup EM-2/280 British but US wanted .30cal. |
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Posted: 4/16/2014 9:19:06 PM EDT
[#27]
Never read the book but from snippets here and there I'veread it was a monumental disaster when it came out. You can def see the AR18 reference on the rear area. |
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Posted: 4/16/2014 11:17:06 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
just curious but how come most of Commonwealth spec ops use M4? Off thread but why? AR's suppress well and between us Mil and civilians lots of various goodies to customize ars more than most things. As for the brits from everything I've read their service rifle is junk compared to the Tavor, AUG, or AR hence why no one else bought it. The freaking safety is on the butt stock if I recall correctly. L85A1: https://1-media-cdn.foolz.us/ffuuka/board/a/image/1337/10/1337104964909.gif Heh, I love that .gif. 
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Posted: 4/17/2014 12:20:46 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
FWIW the safety on the Sa80 is above the trigger the lever on the right side is the bolt lock basically. I agree that the US dictated to all the NATO countries that 7,62 would be the round it would use.... Yup, the Brits should have grabbed up the AUG but they would not accept anything but a domestic design. Your right just looked it up. But the selector lever is aft of the magazine Which is still a bad design even if you do just flip it to semi and forget about it. |
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Posted: 4/17/2014 5:36:19 AM EDT
[#30]
and the SUSAT optic?
Friend has one on a FAL Hideous - would be a kind word.... I understad the "theory" behind the pointer...but it blocks ALOT of the FOV |
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Posted: 4/17/2014 10:47:44 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
and the SUSAT optic? Friend has one on a FAL Hideous - would be a kind word.... I understad the "theory" behind the pointer...but it blocks ALOT of the FOV FAL uses the Trilux SUIT sight; but, the SUIT and SUSAT are pretty much the same, just meant for a different rifle. I saw a SUSAT scope at a gun shop here in town once, case and everything. I wanted to buy it sooo bad just because I had never ever seen one in the wild. I think he wanted $2,000 for it, though. However, the Brits are starting to use ACOGs now. 
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Posted: 4/17/2014 11:54:37 AM EDT
[#32]
My understanding is that the later versions of SA80 (L85A2) has being more reliable, also, optics slowly going to ACOG.
It's being a while since I read DOD report on M4 reliability in Middle East/Afghanistan but even M4, whether A1/A2 variants, had MRBF of under 10K. My understanding is that shooting scores were going up, even w/o the optic. On a bullpup, because the weight of the weapon is closer to shooter's center of gravity, a steadier hold is much easier to accomplish. |
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Posted: 4/17/2014 7:38:54 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
FAL uses the Trilux SUIT sight; but, the SUIT and SUSAT are pretty much the same, just meant for a different rifle. I saw a SUSAT scope at a gun shop here in town once, case and everything. I wanted to buy it sooo bad just because I had never ever seen one in the wild. I think he wanted $2,000 for it, though. However, the Brits are starting to use ACOGs now. http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100417211807/guns/images/f/fd/L85a2_ris_acog.jpg Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
and the SUSAT optic? Friend has one on a FAL Hideous - would be a kind word.... I understad the "theory" behind the pointer...but it blocks ALOT of the FOV FAL uses the Trilux SUIT sight; but, the SUIT and SUSAT are pretty much the same, just meant for a different rifle. I saw a SUSAT scope at a gun shop here in town once, case and everything. I wanted to buy it sooo bad just because I had never ever seen one in the wild. I think he wanted $2,000 for it, though. However, the Brits are starting to use ACOGs now. http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100417211807/guns/images/f/fd/L85a2_ris_acog.jpg Thanks for the clarification !!
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