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Posted: 10/10/2008 6:44:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/9/2010 8:26:25 AM EDT by sgtlmj]
The "generations" listed are purely for reference, and are not used by MSAR to delineate specific models. MSAR made some rapid changes to the STG556 early on, and this was an attempt to differentiate between those models. Some "generations" mixed parts during the changeover, so these are not hard-and-fast rules.

Gen I: (First "Limited Edition" packages introduced during this run. Some early black LE models had a different feedramp and were recalled. )
-Stock: No fence around the bolt catch, no swivel pockets on the bottom, forward assist.
-Bolt Group: Full fluting on carrier, fluted RH thrust piece, balled LH thrust piece.
-Barrel: 1/9 Twist, Tulip f/h

Gen II:
-Stock: Fence around bolt catch, swivel pockets under rear of stock and grip.
-Bolt Group: Smooth carrier, non-fluted RH thrust piece.
-Barrel: 1/8 Twist, Tulip f/h

Gen III: (Some limited ed. rifles built during this time. Gebirgsjaeger, Tactical, ACU, etc)
-Stock: No forward assist, Steyr AUG mag compatible.
-Barrel: Some "Jagdkommando" flash hiders installed on bbls around this time. Later changed back to tulip.

Gen IV:
-Stock: Twist-off ejection port cover. Squared-off receiver lock*
-Barrel: Tulip f/h (unless 'C' model for ban states), 1/2x28RH twist on newer bbls. Some 13x1L still installed.
-Optic: Upgraded Knobs

*At approximately SN: 600-P006800, MSAR started using the squared receiver lock, allowing for forward compatibility with the E4 stock.


E4:
-Stock: AR mag compatible, added texture, finger groove on grip, hard points for additional mounts, re-designed bolt catch.
-Barrel: 1/2x28RH twist, Tulip f/h (unless 'C' model for ban states)
-Bolt Group: Chrome plated bolt, sleeve, rod guides, thrust pieces.
-Optic: Increased height
-Rail: Decreased height of top rail, extended length



Link Posted: 10/10/2008 8:55:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/10/2008 8:58:31 PM EDT by HardShell]
Link Posted: 10/11/2008 9:26:30 AM EDT
Are there any dimensional differences between the first 1/9" 16" barrels and the current 1/8" 16" barrels? In not I may see if anyone wants to trade their 1/9" for my 1/8".
Link Posted: 10/11/2008 1:42:01 PM EDT
When are the Gen. 4 coming out? The orginal Aug mags work with this one? Will the MSAR mags work in it too?
Link Posted: 10/11/2008 1:58:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 223spree:
When are the Gen. 4 coming out? The orginal Aug mags work with this one? Will the MSAR mags work in it too?


The black ones are out, the other colors are on the way. Both mags are compatible.
Link Posted: 10/12/2008 11:18:40 AM EDT
Any info on the new US made optic? Specifically, is the glass more clear, without the tint? How about eye relief? I found the original MSAR optic to have a shorter eye relief than the Steyr.
Link Posted: 10/12/2008 10:03:52 PM EDT
From what I read in an article the new optic is made in the USA as oppossed to China or wherever the first one was from and is suppose to have improved knobs and be free from yellowish tint.

Haven't held a Gen IV yet though so all I can say is what I remember reading.

Link Posted: 10/13/2008 5:20:45 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/13/2008 5:21:08 AM EDT by M4-Daddy]
I have the # 9 black gun to be sold to the public and yes it was a kit gun and the glass is not yellow in any way just FYI.
Link Posted: 10/13/2008 9:07:25 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SilentType:
From what I read in an article the new optic is made in the USA as oppossed to China or wherever the first one was from and is suppose to have improved knobs and be free from yellowish tint.

Haven't held a Gen IV yet though so all I can say is what I remember reading.



The only place you read it to my knowledge is when I posted it a few weeks ago based on a conversation I had with Tim Flynn at Microtech.

If you do have a secondary source that confrims what I posted, I would certainly like to know.
Link Posted: 10/13/2008 11:34:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/13/2008 11:35:31 PM EDT by SilentType]

Originally Posted By Dawg180:

Originally Posted By SilentType:
From what I read in an article the new optic is made in the USA as oppossed to China or wherever the first one was from and is suppose to have improved knobs and be free from yellowish tint.

Haven't held a Gen IV yet though so all I can say is what I remember reading.



The only place you read it to my knowledge is when I posted it a few weeks ago based on a conversation I had with Tim Flynn at Microtech.

If you do have a secondary source that confrims what I posted, I would certainly like to know.


It was in a Gun Magazine that review on the MSAR STG-556. It had a reviewed conducted by a guy that was using it over at Blackwater's training area. This was months ago now.

I posted about this review awhile back and someone here knew the name of the magazines, but I can't remember what post that was in. So if anyone here remembers that magazine name and issue feel free to chime in.

Can't remember the name of the magazine, because it was something I glanced over at a bookstore one evening. It had a list of things the author thought could be improved and one of them was the factory optic and he stated something like "I've been told they're going with a US Made Optic, blah, blah.

Link Posted: 10/17/2008 12:08:16 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/17/2008 12:09:45 AM EDT by sgtlmj]
Updated original post with pics of Gen IV stock paying particular attention to the magwell, which now accepts AUG mags. Got my hands on a couple to compare. The polymer on the new stocks feels more rubbery than the old stock. Kind of like comparing a Glock to a Hk USP frame.

I have an extra Gen IV stock. If one were to search GB they might find it there.
Link Posted: 10/17/2008 8:50:05 PM EDT
Whats the difference between Aug and MSAR mags?
Link Posted: 10/17/2008 10:18:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/18/2008 1:48:03 PM EDT by sgtlmj]

Originally Posted By 223spree:
Whats the difference between Aug and MSAR mags?


MSAR mags have a little spot on the side reinforcing relieved so that they would only mate with their stocks with corresponding ribs in the magwell. You can see the difference in magwells from my pics.

You can modify your older MSAR stock to accept AUG mags in a few minutes with an emery board or small file.


Steyr on the left, MSAR on the right.
Link Posted: 10/19/2008 5:19:58 PM EDT
Are the 4th Gen Msar`s hard to come by?
Link Posted: 10/20/2008 8:51:37 PM EDT
I thought they were working on one that would take AR mags?
Link Posted: 10/20/2008 10:47:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Trumpet:
I thought they were working on one that would take AR mags?


There have been some tenuous rumors (I think one person who talked to an MSAR employee was told 'it is in development'), but nothing firm to date.

However, being that MSAR seems to be slowly but surely evolving the weapon based on user feedback it woudl not surpise me to see a AR mag version appear in the next year or so.
Link Posted: 10/22/2008 7:40:16 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SilentType:
I posted about this review awhile back and someone here knew the name of the magazines, but I can't remember what post that was in. So if anyone here remembers that magazine name and issue feel free to chime in.

Can't remember the name of the magazine, because it was something I glanced over at a bookstore one evening. It had a list of things the author thought could be improved and one of them was the factory optic and he stated something like "I've been told they're going with a US Made Optic, blah, blah.


I believe that would be Combat Arms Annual from Guns and Ammo. Red cover, picture of a SCAR light and heavy on the front?

The have a decent write up on the STG 556 and do mention the optics being made in Japan originally and now with a US co as you stated. If you're interested, I could scan the article and save it as a .PDF and email it to you or anyone else as well.
Link Posted: 10/22/2008 6:10:14 PM EDT
I'm on the waiting list @ RatWorx for the new US made optic. As concerns mags I just don't dig the Stanags with the AUG platform. The classic look and build of the original mag says AUG.
Link Posted: 10/25/2008 1:31:29 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/25/2008 3:04:48 PM EDT by Dawg180]
Here is some additonal info:

There were 150 (200?) of each color of special edition first release rifles, plus another 3800 or so rifles based on the serial numbers posted last week, it would appear there are around 4500 (4700?) or so rifles 'in the wild' at this point as of 10/25/08

It also appears the Gen IV slicksides start around serial number 3700 or so based on serial numbers posted in this thread: www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=6&f=43&t=254701&page=1#bottom


Additional info, Generation 1 rifles would have the following serial numbers (possibly more) and all were LE packages with a 10, 20, 30, and 40 round clear magazine, hard case, sling, cleaning kit, MSAR Curahee knife, and rifle had factory optic as standard(?)

Generation 1, "Limited Edition Packages"
(serial number info is tenative)
S/N 600-BLK00101 thru S/N 600-BLK00300
S/N 600-GRN00101 thru S/N 600-GRN00300
S/N 600-TAN00101 thru S/N 600-TAN00300

Note that the first BLK rifles, from 00101 through 00259 approximately had 1/9 barrels and some unique features (see pics in first post), and that BLK00104 through BLK00259 were under recall to upgrade some parts including the recevier ramp, the extractor and extractor spring. All rifles after that point in generation 1 had 1/8 barrels.

Also, from what is known BLK-00101 through BLK-00104 were not sold to the public, but were either kept by the factory or given/sold to employees
Link Posted: 10/26/2008 5:31:03 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Magnus:
I'm on the waiting list @ RatWorx for the new US made optic. As concerns mags I just don't dig the Stanags with the AUG platform. The classic look and build of the original mag says AUG.

I am also on the Waiting list at Ratworks for one with the new US optics.
Link Posted: 11/13/2008 11:23:01 AM EDT
According to MSAR, the new Gen IV stock requires a different or modified hammer pack. Anyone upgrading their stock will need to know this.

I have both hammer packs but havent done any comparison yet. I believe it is a minor, internal modification. Perhaps X-ile will chime in for further clarification.
Link Posted: 11/15/2008 1:35:49 AM EDT
Internal mod means: Disconector mod. Anyone going from an FA (forward-assist, not full-auto) stock to a gen 4 stock without a new hammer pack should contact MSAR.
Link Posted: 11/21/2008 10:44:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/21/2008 10:45:41 PM EDT by GLOCKCRAZZ]
Originally Posted By sgtlmj:
Gen IV:
-Stock: No forward assist, AUG mag compatible
-Barrel: Tulip f/h
-Optic: US manuf., Upgraded Knobs


Does any one know what US manuf Mircotech is getting ther glass from?



Link Posted: 11/21/2008 11:01:12 PM EDT
I may get one for fun.
Link Posted: 11/23/2008 8:33:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/4/2008 11:35:36 PM EDT by Dawg180]
Originally Posted By Rocksarge:
I may get one for fun.



Hey folks, this thread is for information on the MSAR. If you got a post to share likw the one quoted, please start a new thread in the Bullpup forum. Stuff like above just junks up this thread.


Additional info to add to this thread: According to MSAR, the MSAR M-16 magazine compatible stock will be available soon, slickside in black and then OD grgeen. Rifles will continue to come with the GEN IV slickside, and the M-16 mag stock ("NATO" stock) will be offered as an aftermarket OEM accessory.
Link Posted: 12/4/2008 11:34:13 PM EDT
I’m new here at AR15.com but Dave with MSAR recommended this forum when I was visiting with him today about my rifles, which are going back for parts replacement and(or) refurbishment. I’m not used to having problems with a firearm but customer service has been good to me so far. I’m not going to get into problems I’ve had so far at this time, but I do have faith in the company that they will make my rifles right. I bought four MSARs after the election, for my family and me. I normally exhaustively research all potential purchases, but not this time. I fell in love with this rifle the first time I put it to my cheek. I began searching the internet to find about the MSAR STG556 rifle and got active with the forums: the Firing line, USaug.com and MSARs microtalk. It scared the hell out of me as there have been many people knocking the rifle and company. I’m very happy we now have a US manufacturer making this wonderful weapon, as I’ve always, from day one loved the AUG. I want them to succeed.
The person who is providing all the information and pictures in this forum has done a wonderful job and I’m sure he spent a lot of time providing us with good information. The drunk that criticized his shooting needs to go elsewhere.
I agree with the definitions of Gen I-IV. I have one Gen I and three Gen II’s. We were working on the Gen’s at USaug.com and this information agrees with that. I am very interested in creating a general serial no. system by Gens. My rifle is in the 800’s (Gen I) and the other three are in the 1500’s (Gen II). I suspect that 1-1000 is Gen I and 1001-2000 or more is Gen II. Anybody with a Gen III or IV care to speak up?
I’m posting here because I think I have the magazine you’re asking about. If you want to ask questions about the article, go ahead. It is Guns & Ammo Combat Arms. It may be a special issue as it doesn’t have a month date on it, it just says display until 12/9/08. The article is on page 84.
That’s all for now. I will continue to read these posts as I am really enjoying them.

BOBno1

Link Posted: 12/7/2008 12:21:11 AM EDT
Has anyone on the forum tried out MSAR's integrally-silenced barrel for the STG?

It's on their website, I've heard it costs almost as much as the rifle, but not seen any video clips, heard reports, etc.
Link Posted: 12/7/2008 3:52:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/7/2008 3:57:40 PM EDT by BOBno1]
I've been looking at all posts on all forums concerning MSAR. I'm trying to understand who from the company is posting. Some who were posting are gone. I want to help the company as I was in manufacturing for 35 years and in the past have been in the same position as MSAR is today on several occasions. It happens. They naturally want their guns to sell and never fail. They were deluged with some early issues. They listened to a small number of people or a large number of people and made some knee jerk reactions.

They wanted to speed up and solve everything. Admirable, however, this was the time to slow down, gather up many ideas from inside, and out, have many discussions to address the important problems and collectively make a decision as to what the next rifle would look like. They needed to fix the feeding problems related to internals first and not change the cosmetics at the same time. Doing both showed me that they had panicked. It was a good decision to put on hold the other caliber product.

A big part of the MSAR forums have been people trying to find out what they actually have versus what is current.

Gens I-IV. I've read every post I could find on MSAR’s, from various places and the posts that have been the most helpful to me have the ones by Duke Nukum, sgtml and tomac.

I still may not even understand what a new production model is.

The original FH was fine; the early no-fence around the bolt release was fine, there never was a reason for a FA, swivel pockets under rear of stock and grip (?), magwell change (yes), and internal firing mechanism ?(definitely). I’m for clean and smooth, swoop design we called it.

I bought my four MSAR’s a month ago. Gen IV had already been released and not knowing any different, I purchased one Gen I and three Gen II’s. I’ve had all kinds of problems and trust they will make things right. Four guns with problems is a lot different from one with problems. That pissed me off when I became knowledgeable, but I love the product and want the company to succeed.

I too want to track changes, etc. I’ve created a spreadsheet to begin the process. I’m missing some things to complete it. The serial number separating Gens is a good thing to do, but before we get to that, I have some questions.
From previous posts listing the Gens, some things may have been assumed, things I probably know but still need to ask.

(1) With and after Gen II is there also a fence around bolt catch and swivel pockets under rear of stock and grip?
(2) With and after Gen II, is the barrel 1/8 twist?
(3) Was bolt group change in Gen II (smooth carrier, non-fluted RH thrust piece, non balled LH thrust piece) carried forward to Gen III (or IIa) and Gen IV?
(4) Gen III (or IIa) Is the only change from Gen II that becomes Gen III or IIa the Jagdkommando FH?
(5) Was Aug mag compatible Gen IV only for Gen IV and what is that mag change?
(6) Gen IV What is the knob change with the optics? Also, there was a glass change earlier? When?
(7) There have been internal problems. What are they? Was there only one change or more and what is then reflected in Gen IV?
(8) Also, the history by Gens of the trigger. It's kind of wierd.

If my questions are addressed then I can finish this spreadsheet and provide it to all. I also suggested to MSAR that they be open about this as communication is a tool to use.
Link Posted: 12/7/2008 11:42:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/7/2008 11:45:58 PM EDT by firecop45acp]
Originally Posted By MatthewVanitas:
Has anyone on the forum tried out MSAR's integrally-silenced barrel for the STG?

It's on their website, I've heard it costs almost as much as the rifle, but not seen any video clips, heard reports, etc.


As of about a week ago when I last spoke with X-ile, there are not any yet in production and what you see on the website is a prototype. The same holds true for the 14 inch barrel. As far as i know, any discussion on price would be purely speculative. That being said, I truly hope that the price for the suppressed barrel assembly is one that will be affordable or at least reasonable!

X-ile, Jagdkommando, Archetype... feel free to chime in! (though I realize that this might fall into the "We'd love to tell ya, but..." category)
Link Posted: 12/12/2008 8:20:00 AM EDT
Don't know if this has already been asked, but are all the rifles shipping now Gen IV? If this is the case, on what date (approx) did the Gen IV's start shipping?
Link Posted: 12/16/2008 9:36:31 PM EDT
Realizing that it's purely speculative: any folks with strong opinions as to whether GenIV is going to be the standard for the immediate future, or whether we'll see big GenV changes over the next year? Not in terms of .22 or 6.8 barrels, or new accessory options, but in terms of the design itself.
Link Posted: 12/22/2008 7:38:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/22/2008 7:38:37 PM EDT by Archetype]
The MSAR E4 rifle is going to be amazing...
Link Posted: 12/22/2008 7:40:20 PM EDT
What exactly is the E4 ????
Link Posted: 12/22/2008 10:38:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/22/2008 10:39:29 PM EDT by Archetype]
Originally Posted By LDAguy:
What exactly is the E4 ????



It's one of those "I wish I could tell you, but..." kind of situations right now.

It will be at SHOT show.


Link Posted: 12/23/2008 7:38:02 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Archetype:
Originally Posted By LDAguy:
What exactly is the E4 ????



It's one of those "I wish I could tell you, but..." kind of situations right now.

It will be at SHOT show.




Don't be a tease.

Link Posted: 12/28/2008 11:44:18 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Trumpet:
Originally Posted By Archetype:
Originally Posted By LDAguy:
What exactly is the E4 ????



It's one of those "I wish I could tell you, but..." kind of situations right now.

It will be at SHOT show.




Don't be a tease.




I was under the impression that the E4 will accept AR magazines. The E4 stock will be available to owners of previous gen MSARs for retrofit.
Link Posted: 12/28/2008 11:59:13 AM EDT
AR mags is part of it. There's more to the E4 than that though.
Link Posted: 12/28/2008 3:59:51 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Archetype:
AR mags is part of it. There's more to the E4 than that though.


An extended, but lowered flat-topped rail or maybe fitted with a scope with tritium that sits one inch higher than the early version or maybe a 6.8 version with 18" barrel...

Do tell...
Link Posted: 12/28/2008 9:35:26 PM EDT
If we're wishing here, how about:

18" bbl (best combo of balance and velocity)
Uses AR mags
Lower rail system (current version is a bit too high for use with EOTechs if you still want a good cheek weld)
6.8mm conversion kit with 18" bbl and bolt, that will take 6.8mm AR mags.

That's about the perfect rifle, short of a plasma rifle in the 20 megawatt range.
Link Posted: 12/29/2008 8:41:46 PM EDT
i must agree, the E4 will be a sight to behold, I got to see see one today while on an interview with MSAR (along with a few other things that the engineers are planning)...and no, I wont spill the beans either
Link Posted: 12/31/2008 4:05:50 PM EDT
Read sgtlmj original post and this link by DukeNukem

www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=733464

That is the spirit with which sgtlmj started this thread.

then read my 2 posts (BOBno1) on this thread.

So stay with that because it could be good information.

Start a new thread if you want to talk about what you are calling MSAR E4.

I don’t even know what you all are talking about unless it’s the new pistol calibered model. If you are talking about a complete redo of MSAR STG556, I’m really going to be pissed as I have 4 that don’t work and am sending them in for whatever their going to do with them.

And Archetype, you are really confusing me man. You tease.
Link Posted: 12/31/2008 5:12:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/31/2008 5:15:40 PM EDT by Trumpet]
Originally Posted By BOBno1:
Read sgtlmj original post and this link by DukeNukem

www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=733464

That is the spirit with which sgtlmj started this thread.

then read my 2 posts (BOBno1) on this thread.

So stay with that because it could be good information.

Start a new thread if you want to talk about what you are calling MSAR E4.

I don’t even know what you all are talking about unless it’s the new pistol calibered model. If you are talking about a complete redo of MSAR STG556, I’m really going to be pissed as I have 4 that don’t work and am sending them in for whatever their going to do with them.


And Archetype, you are really confusing me man. You tease.


Sgtlmj can speak for himself.

So you complain that people are posting about a MSAR you know nothing about? Maybe consider encouraging it so you can learn what it is?
Link Posted: 12/31/2008 6:00:41 PM EDT
Originally Posted By HardShell:
Originally Posted By sgtlmj:
... Let's try to keep this thread on topic. Snarky comments about which manufacturer is better are not welcome....


Please heed these words in this thread.

Have something off-topic that you feel just has to be said? Start your own thread.


Link Posted: 1/1/2009 2:50:12 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Trumpet:
Originally Posted By BOBno1:
Read sgtlmj original post and this link by DukeNukem

www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=733464

That is the spirit with which sgtlmj started this thread.

then read my 2 posts (BOBno1) on this thread.

So stay with that because it could be good information.

Start a new thread if you want to talk about what you are calling MSAR E4.

I don’t even know what you all are talking about unless it’s the new pistol calibered model. If you are talking about a complete redo of MSAR STG556, I’m really going to be pissed as I have 4 that don’t work and am sending them in for whatever their going to do with them.


And Archetype, you are really confusing me man. You tease.


Sgtlmj can speak for himself.

So you complain that people are posting about a MSAR you know nothing about? Maybe consider encouraging it so you can learn what it is?


Stjlmj has spoken for himself and I appreciate what he has started. I haven't messed with anything he has said, but you have by taking his thread in a different direction. He has tried more than once to get this thread back on track. So start a thread on whatever an E4 is or this new new GEN IV whatever that is. Yes I'm certainly interested in what everyone has to say about whatever is new but I haven't heard anything yet that is concrete. Everyone is dancing around a new gun that a few may know about but won't really talk about and all that is left is supposition, conjecture and assumptions. I want to talk about the MSAR generations of this rifle. That is what this thread is for. I will be glad to talk about new guns from MSAR. That excites me also, but I'm trying to understand why I have 4 stg 556's that don't work, if you can appreciate where I'm coming from. This thread took a left turn and I would like for it to continue forward from its original intent, the original rifle, that's all. Happy New Year.
Link Posted: 1/1/2009 8:30:06 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/1/2009 8:32:20 AM EDT by Trumpet]
Originally Posted By BOBno1:
Originally Posted By Trumpet:
Originally Posted By BOBno1:
Read sgtlmj original post and this link by DukeNukem

www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=733464

That is the spirit with which sgtlmj started this thread.

then read my 2 posts (BOBno1) on this thread.

So stay with that because it could be good information.

Start a new thread if you want to talk about what you are calling MSAR E4.

I don’t even know what you all are talking about unless it’s the new pistol calibered model. If you are talking about a complete redo of MSAR STG556, I’m really going to be pissed as I have 4 that don’t work and am sending them in for whatever their going to do with them.


And Archetype, you are really confusing me man. You tease.


Sgtlmj can speak for himself.

So you complain that people are posting about a MSAR you know nothing about? Maybe consider encouraging it so you can learn what it is?


Stjlmj has spoken for himself and I appreciate what he has started. I haven't messed with anything he has said, but you have by taking his thread in a different direction. He has tried more than once to get this thread back on track. So start a thread on whatever an E4 is or this new new GEN IV whatever that is. Yes I'm certainly interested in what everyone has to say about whatever is new but I haven't heard anything yet that is concrete. Everyone is dancing around a new gun that a few may know about but won't really talk about and all that is left is supposition, conjecture and assumptions. I want to talk about the MSAR generations of this rifle. That is what this thread is for. I will be glad to talk about new guns from MSAR. That excites me also, but I'm trying to understand why I have 4 stg 556's that don't work, if you can appreciate where I'm coming from. This thread took a left turn and I would like for it to continue forward from its original intent, the original rifle, that's all. Happy New Year.



I was under the impression from a MSAR employee that the E4 is a version of the STG-556.

See the OP's first post. The Gen IV is out, so discussion about that and the E4 is relevant to this thread.


Understood, but that's not really the intent of this thread though.

Happy new year.

This is a great thread with lots of information. I plan on purchasing a MSAR, but I want to wait until after SHOT so I can see the E4 first.
Link Posted: 1/1/2009 5:33:08 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Trumpet:
Originally Posted By BOBno1:
Originally Posted By Trumpet:
Originally Posted By BOBno1:
Read sgtlmj original post and this link by DukeNukem

www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=733464

That is the spirit with which sgtlmj started this thread.

then read my 2 posts (BOBno1) on this thread.

So stay with that because it could be good information.

Start a new thread if you want to talk about what you are calling MSAR E4.

I don’t even know what you all are talking about unless it’s the new pistol calibered model. If you are talking about a complete redo of MSAR STG556, I’m really going to be pissed as I have 4 that don’t work and am sending them in for whatever their going to do with them.


And Archetype, you are really confusing me man. You tease.


Sgtlmj can speak for himself.

So you complain that people are posting about a MSAR you know nothing about? Maybe consider encouraging it so you can learn what it is?


Stjlmj has spoken for himself and I appreciate what he has started. I haven't messed with anything he has said, but you have by taking his thread in a different direction. He has tried more than once to get this thread back on track. So start a thread on whatever an E4 is or this new new GEN IV whatever that is. Yes I'm certainly interested in what everyone has to say about whatever is new but I haven't heard anything yet that is concrete. Everyone is dancing around a new gun that a few may know about but won't really talk about and all that is left is supposition, conjecture and assumptions. I want to talk about the MSAR generations of this rifle. That is what this thread is for. I will be glad to talk about new guns from MSAR. That excites me also, but I'm trying to understand why I have 4 stg 556's that don't work, if you can appreciate where I'm coming from. This thread took a left turn and I would like for it to continue forward from its original intent, the original rifle, that's all. Happy New Year.



1.I was under the impression from a MSAR employee that the E4 is a version of the STG-556.

See the OP's first post. 2. The Gen IV is out, so discussion about that and the E4 is relevant to this thread.


Understood, but 3.that's not really the intent of this thread though.

Happy new year.

4. This is a great thread with lots of information. I plan on purchasing a MSAR, but I want to wait until after SHOT so I can see the E4 first.


Your #1. That's where I started getting confused. To me, Gen IV is what is current production prior to SHOT09. As I said before, if this E4 is a complete redo of the current rifle, I will be pissed. If that is the case, I want them to replace my non-working Gen I and Gen II's with taht. I think, but don't know that the E4 he references is the new pistol calibered stg?
Your #2. I agree but lets understand what the E4 is as it becomes confusing otherwise. Is it the original rifle evolved to become E4 or is it the pistol calibered version of the stg556, or something else?
Your #3. Yes, you are right and I apologise. I'm mixing my problems in with sgtlmj’s original intent which he stated as “
It was suggested that we keep track of the generational changes since the STG-556 was introduced. Once we get this together, possibly with SN ranges, we could keep it stickied for reference. Hopefully we can get some good input in here and ensure that our nomenclature is correct. Let's try to keep this thread on topic. Snarky comments about which manufacturer is better are not welcome.”
Your #4. I agree.
Link Posted: 1/1/2009 7:08:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/1/2009 7:09:57 PM EDT by BOBno1]
sgtlmj,

I see you are online. I would like to see a new post from you after all of the lastest discussions. Okay, now I see you are offline.
Link Posted: 1/1/2009 7:19:04 PM EDT
Originally Posted By BOBno1:
Originally Posted By Trumpet:
Originally Posted By BOBno1:
Originally Posted By Trumpet:
Originally Posted By BOBno1:
Read sgtlmj original post and this link by DukeNukem

www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=733464

That is the spirit with which sgtlmj started this thread.

then read my 2 posts (BOBno1) on this thread.

So stay with that because it could be good information.

Start a new thread if you want to talk about what you are calling MSAR E4.

I don’t even know what you all are talking about unless it’s the new pistol calibered model. If you are talking about a complete redo of MSAR STG556, I’m really going to be pissed as I have 4 that don’t work and am sending them in for whatever their going to do with them.


And Archetype, you are really confusing me man. You tease.


Sgtlmj can speak for himself.

So you complain that people are posting about a MSAR you know nothing about? Maybe consider encouraging it so you can learn what it is?


Stjlmj has spoken for himself and I appreciate what he has started. I haven't messed with anything he has said, but you have by taking his thread in a different direction. He has tried more than once to get this thread back on track. So start a thread on whatever an E4 is or this new new GEN IV whatever that is. Yes I'm certainly interested in what everyone has to say about whatever is new but I haven't heard anything yet that is concrete. Everyone is dancing around a new gun that a few may know about but won't really talk about and all that is left is supposition, conjecture and assumptions. I want to talk about the MSAR generations of this rifle. That is what this thread is for. I will be glad to talk about new guns from MSAR. That excites me also, but I'm trying to understand why I have 4 stg 556's that don't work, if you can appreciate where I'm coming from. This thread took a left turn and I would like for it to continue forward from its original intent, the original rifle, that's all. Happy New Year.



1.I was under the impression from a MSAR employee that the E4 is a version of the STG-556.

See the OP's first post. 2. The Gen IV is out, so discussion about that and the E4 is relevant to this thread.


Understood, but 3.that's not really the intent of this thread though.

Happy new year.

4. This is a great thread with lots of information. I plan on purchasing a MSAR, but I want to wait until after SHOT so I can see the E4 first.


Your #1. That's where I started getting confused. To me, Gen IV is what is current production prior to SHOT09. As I said before, if this E4 is a complete redo of the current rifle, I will be pissed. If that is the case, I want them to replace my non-working Gen I and Gen II's with taht. I think, but don't know that the E4 he references is the new pistol calibered stg?
Your #2. I agree but lets understand what the E4 is as it becomes confusing otherwise. Is it the original rifle evolved to become E4 or is it the pistol calibered version of the stg556, or something else?
Your #3. Yes, you are right and I apologise. I'm mixing my problems in with sgtlmj’s original intent which he stated as “
It was suggested that we keep track of the generational changes since the STG-556 was introduced. Once we get this together, possibly with SN ranges, we could keep it stickied for reference. Hopefully we can get some good input in here and ensure that our nomenclature is correct. Let's try to keep this thread on topic. Snarky comments about which manufacturer is better are not welcome.”
Your #4. I agree.



Ok. Guess some things got "lost in translation" . From what I understand the Gen IV is the one that is out now (no forward assist, takes AUG and MSAR mags etc) and the E4 is essentially the NATO stocked version which is to be released at SHOT. I was told that current Gen I-IV owners shouldn't worry, as MSAR will still continue to make mags or if they wish, they can purchase the NATO (E4) stock separately as a "retrofit" should they desire to use AR mags. As to whether MSAR will continue to make Gen IV rifles in addition to the E4 (provided my understanding of what the E4 is is correct....with my luck I'm wrong though ) after SHOT will remain to be seen. However, MSAR made it pretty clear that they would continue to support Gen I-IV owners.
Link Posted: 1/1/2009 8:32:02 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Trumpet:
Originally Posted By BOBno1:
Originally Posted By Trumpet:
Originally Posted By BOBno1:
Originally Posted By Trumpet:
Originally Posted By BOBno1:
Read sgtlmj original post and this link by DukeNukem

www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=733464

That is the spirit with which sgtlmj started this thread.

then read my 2 posts (BOBno1) on this thread.

So stay with that because it could be good information.

Start a new thread if you want to talk about what you are calling MSAR E4.

I don’t even know what you all are talking about unless it’s the new pistol calibered model. If you are talking about a complete redo of MSAR STG556, I’m really going to be pissed as I have 4 that don’t work and am sending them in for whatever their going to do with them.


And Archetype, you are really confusing me man. You tease.


Sgtlmj can speak for himself.

So you complain that people are posting about a MSAR you know nothing about? Maybe consider encouraging it so you can learn what it is?


Stjlmj has spoken for himself and I appreciate what he has started. I haven't messed with anything he has said, but you have by taking his thread in a different direction. He has tried more than once to get this thread back on track. So start a thread on whatever an E4 is or this new new GEN IV whatever that is. Yes I'm certainly interested in what everyone has to say about whatever is new but I haven't heard anything yet that is concrete. Everyone is dancing around a new gun that a few may know about but won't really talk about and all that is left is supposition, conjecture and assumptions. I want to talk about the MSAR generations of this rifle. That is what this thread is for. I will be glad to talk about new guns from MSAR. That excites me also, but I'm trying to understand why I have 4 stg 556's that don't work, if you can appreciate where I'm coming from. This thread took a left turn and I would like for it to continue forward from its original intent, the original rifle, that's all. Happy New Year.



1.I was under the impression from a MSAR employee that the E4 is a version of the STG-556.

See the OP's first post. 2. The Gen IV is out, so discussion about that and the E4 is relevant to this thread.


Understood, but 3.that's not really the intent of this thread though.

Happy new year.

4. This is a great thread with lots of information. I plan on purchasing a MSAR, but I want to wait until after SHOT so I can see the E4 first.


Your #1. That's where I started getting confused. To me, Gen IV is what is current production prior to SHOT09. As I said before, if this E4 is a complete redo of the current rifle, I will be pissed. If that is the case, I want them to replace my non-working Gen I and Gen II's with taht. I think, but don't know that the E4 he references is the new pistol calibered stg?
Your #2. I agree but lets understand what the E4 is as it becomes confusing otherwise. Is it the original rifle evolved to become E4 or is it the pistol calibered version of the stg556, or something else?
Your #3. Yes, you are right and I apologise. I'm mixing my problems in with sgtlmj’s original intent which he stated as “
It was suggested that we keep track of the generational changes since the STG-556 was introduced. Once we get this together, possibly with SN ranges, we could keep it stickied for reference. Hopefully we can get some good input in here and ensure that our nomenclature is correct. Let's try to keep this thread on topic. Snarky comments about which manufacturer is better are not welcome.”
Your #4. I agree.



Ok. Guess some things got "lost in translation" . From what I understand the Gen IV is the one that is out now (no forward assist, takes AUG and MSAR mags etc) and the E4 is essentially the NATO stocked version which is to be released at SHOT. I was told that current Gen I-IV owners shouldn't worry, as MSAR will still continue to make mags or if they wish, they can purchase the NATO (E4) stock separately as a "retrofit" should they desire to use AR mags. As to whether MSAR will continue to make Gen IV rifles in addition to the E4 (provided my understanding of what the E4 is is correct....with my luck I'm wrong though ) after SHOT will remain to be seen. However, MSAR made it pretty clear that they would continue to support Gen I-IV owners.


Okay, that all makes more sense to me now, but I was confused when the thread went like this;

Between two of my, what I thought were on topic posts on this thread came what I thought was another direction to the thread that started like this by Archetype,

[ "The MSAR E4 rifle is going to be amazing...",

and then LDAguy “What exactly is the E4 ????”,

and then Archetype, “It's one of those "I wish I could tell you, but..." kind of situations right now. It will be at SHOT show”,

and then Trumpet, “Don't be a tease”,

and then by Rob78, “I was under the impression that the E4 will accept AR magazines. The E4 stock will be available to owners of previous gen MSARs for retrofit”,

and then by Archetype, “AR mags is part of it. There's more to the E4 than that though”,

and then by Govm4, “An extended, but lowered flat-topped rail or maybe fitted with a scope with tritium that sits one inch higher than the early version or maybe a 6.8 version with 18" barrel...”,

and then by 1stID, “If we're wishing here, how about: 18" bbl (best combo of balance and velocity), Uses AR mags, Lower rail system (current version is a bit too high for use with EOTechs if you still want a good cheek weld), 6.8mm conversion kit with 18" bbl and bolt, that will take 6.8mm AR mags”,

and then by rizzo5586, “i must agree, the E4 will be a sight to behold, I got to see see one today while on an interview with MSAR (along with a few other things that the engineers are planning)...and no, I wont spill the beans either”]

I loved that foreplay but for me all that wasn’t too helpful.

It looks like the E4, if not the pistol calibered gun, is a further evolution of stg556 on its way to being Gen V? So we end Gen IV and now want to discuss Gen V, but not the pistol caliber version? Right?
Link Posted: 1/2/2009 8:51:30 AM EDT
Originally Posted By BOBno1:
Originally Posted By Trumpet:
Originally Posted By BOBno1:
Originally Posted By Trumpet:
Originally Posted By BOBno1:
Originally Posted By Trumpet:
Originally Posted By BOBno1:
Read sgtlmj original post and this link by DukeNukem

www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=733464

.

(BOBno1) .




.









. .



1.I was under the impression from a MSAR employee that the E4 is a version of the STG-556.

See the OP's first post. 2. The Gen IV is out, so discussion about that and the E4 is relevant to this thread.


Understood, but 3.that's not really the intent of this thread though.

Happy new year.

4. This is a great thread with lots of information. I plan on purchasing a MSAR, but I want to wait until after SHOT so I can see the E4 first.





Ok. Guess some things got "lost in translation" .





Correct Bob. My assumption gleaned from what I've gathered from those more "in the know" than us is that the E4 is a further revision of the STG556. This would make it a 5th generation STG556.

As a happy owner of a III Generation 20" STG556, I certainly do hope the E4 changes would be "retrofittable" to earlier rifles.

I understand your frustration and can only add that Tony Marfione will take care of us with problems. His track record so far has been stellar considering the number of issues from the LE and GEN II rifles.

FWIW, Serial number ranges I've seen elsewhere. It might have been the MSAR forums, but I can't say for certain.
Link Posted: 1/2/2009 4:36:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/2/2009 5:56:01 PM EDT by BOBno1]
rob78,

You said,

1. Correct Bob. My assumption gleaned from what I've gathered from those more "in the know" than us is that the E4 is a further revision of the STG556. This would make it a 5th generation STG556.

2. As a happy owner of a III Generation 20" STG556, I certainly do hope the E4 changes would be "retrofittable" to earlier rifles.

3. I understand your frustration and can only add that Tony Marfione will take care of us with problems. His track record so far has been stellar considering the number of issues from the LE and GEN II rifles.

4. FWIW, Serial number ranges I've seen elsewhere. It might have been the MSAR forums, but I can't say for certain.

BOBno1 replies,

Thank you so much for your response. Very helpful. Now we are getting somewhere.

Your #1.
Cool. We’ll see it soon. I can’t find the post where someone responded to me saying that technically the only changes so far with the MSAR are cosmetic. I accept that. So therefore what we are be now calling E4 / Gen V would be Gen II. Gen I would have an a,b,c and d. So, in order to not confuse, we can go with Gen V for the evolved SHOT09 stg556 release. I will defer to what the group thinks on this.

It seems as though to me there are three active intertwined subjects going on.
1.The current (prior to SHOT09) Gens I-IV.
2.The SHOT09 release of MSAR E4 or Gen V (or Gen II).
3.The pistol calibered version.

Do you agree?

Your #2.
I’m happy also, even though I have problems. I thought my posts that included the problems were on topic as I was trying to understand what had been changed and why. Others have said I was off topic, so I will go with that and not bring any of that stuff up again. I haven’t seen any posts lately about problems with new purchases, so I will conclude that with Gen IV the company is off and running.

Your #3.
I am confident that they will resolve my issues.

Your #4.
That is what I was interested in. There is a Gen III on GunBroker whose serial # is in the 1900's.

Thanks again
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