Long story short, I am now using a dedicated 650 toolhead that has an RCBS X  sizer die and a Lyman M die in it.

The RCBS X sizer die has the decapping mandrel removed.  I had goobered it up trying to remove a stuck case.

Here is the video....the first part is the "before"  the second part is the "after":



I had previously tried loading cases that had been just resized without the M die treatment.  That squished the necks/mouths down too far.  Consequently, while trying to seat the bullets, a little bit of the jacket would get shaved off.  The groups at 100 yards were a lot better despite that.

One of the days...soon...I'll have to see how these group.

EDIT:  this brass had come to me as pre-processed brass.  I am using 69gr and 77gr SMKs.  I figured I am paying a Cadillac price for bullets, so I should be getting "Cadillac" type results with my 100 yard groups.  So I started tracking down what I thought was a concentricity issue with the pre-processed brass.  Turns out my factory XM193 and XM855 has concentricity issues as well.  I figure it is just how Lake City makes the brass.

So basically you're saying that you resize with the RCBS sizer and expand the neck with the lyman "M" die, and this solved your runout issues?

How is the neck tension using that method, and crimp, if applicable.

Ya...know...I haven't actually measured the necks just yet.

Obviously, my previous experiment without the M die...when it was shaving the necks had way too much neck tension, but the groups shrank quite a bit.  In most cases it was 1 MOA or less.

I made up 50 rounds that got the M die treatment.  I was just going to shoot those for groups and see how they do.

My plan B is I now have a Redding S type sizing die with at least 2 bushings for the neck/mouth.

I think I have another 650 toolhead still in the wrapper, so if I really have to I could install the Redding S die in it all by itself.

Once I get some groups that I like, I will call RCBS customer service and order a new decapping mandrel from the X die.

I still have a Dillon resizing die but I think it has an expander ball on its decapping rod.  I could always try that, too.  

Just as it stands for right now with my personal opinion, I am not real keen on traditional sizing dies which have an expander ball.

Just got my Accuracy 1st and went about measuring a sample from all my factory ammo I have on hand and some reloads.  Surprising to me, the Hornady Superformance Match is the straightest ammo I have.  Federal XM262 is by far the worse.  Worse than my bulk reloads from my 550.  

My question is what point on the bullet do you want to measure the run out on?  Does the ogive make the difference or the very tip?

I would think it wouldn't matter with good quality bullets,  but I try to get that indicator's "stylus" to ride real close to the case mouth.


One of the things I did notice...it seemed like the headstamps weren't exactly square with the centerline of the case.  Maybe this is some sort of optical illusion??? The headstamp rides against a pin.  This pin acts like a stop.  The thumbwheel on my gauge is biased or angled just so, so that it pushes the headstamp against that pin as the case rotates.

So if there is something squirrely going on with the headstamp or there is a burr on the case rim, the case can travel in and out or left and right as it rotates.

So that stylus would pick that up  as runout as the stylus rides up and down the ogive.

Measuring where you did (near the case mouth and just forward of the forward case support) will always give relatively low runout values.  If you want to know whether your rounds are truly straight, measure near the tip of the bullet.

When reading about runout and comparing runout values between different data sources, it is essential, absolutely essential, to know exactly where the cases were supported and where the measurements were made.  


I do agree that high quality match bullets should show low runout.  It's one of the attributes of a truly "match grade" bullet.  Uniform mass distribution about the spin axis is another (and a topic for some other thread).

Yep...to all.

As a side note...and short adventure into reloading tedium or anal retentiveness...

A guy on the BE forums had been PMing me.

The thing he mentioned was that in theory if you resize the necks and they are concentric on the outside, that the case neck thickness can vary and that shows up on the inside...

so neck tension isn't the same all around the bullet.

I am not at that point yet to start turning case necks.


 


That is one of the reasons I bought the gauge that I did because I can turn the indicator so the stylus is inside that case neck.

And my time might be better off just buying Lapua brass to start with.

The thing is, this is a fallacious assumption.  Yes, the conclusion follows from the premise, but the premise is deeply flawed (or highly improbable).

If you're really worried, buy the Lapua.



P.S. - I have a neck turning tool from Sinclair which I use on my brass for 600+ yard events but I rarely use it.  IMO, not worth the expense and time.

That is kinda what I figured.

Being here in southern Illinois...one, we don't have those kinda ranges.

Two my equipment ... rifle and scope....together are at some lower "tier" that would,'t necessarily pay dividends to sink money and time into neck turning.

Three I lack the skills to make it a noticeable difference.

THAT is the real issue.  In my experience, by far, it is the shooter that is the limiting factor on overall accuracy.

I once had a rifle that was worse than me; where IT was the limiting factor.  I got rid of that rifle to fund a better one.  I won't buy another inaccurate rifle.

If you have money to spend, get a better rifle.  Spend time and ammo training.  Don't "waste" the money and time neck turning unless you are a crazy-good benchrest shooter.

"Only accurate rifles are interesting".
Townsend Whelen

So I'm no good at Illinois Geography, but I know there's quite a bit of Highpower across-the-course matches out there, linking the schedule here, in case there might be something closer than you think...
http://www.illinoishighpower.org/10-state_schedule/10-state_schedule.html