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Posted: 8/5/2017 8:10:49 PM EDT
I'm in the market for another progressive press.

I have a RCBS Pro2000 and have been reasonably happy with it, but I'd like 7 stations. As it is, when I reload pistol on the Pro2000, I'm using all 5 stations (sizing die, powder measure, bullet feeder, seating die, post-sizing die) and I'd like to have a powder check die in there.

I remember a couple years ago when the Prochuckers came out, that people were breaking a lot of parts on them. Mainly the primer slider bar or something related to the priming system.

They otherwise had a reputation for a very smooth indexing, nice press.

Did RCBS ever update or fix the issues?

Is there a case feeder for the press now and does it work well?

Are they still forcing a Uniflow purchase with every die plate? From my brief search I didn't see anyone selling the plate only - just the combo for $200+ each.


Would like to hear opinions especially from early adopters who've been using this press for a year+ now. Thanks.
Link Posted: 8/5/2017 8:56:53 PM EDT
[#1]
I own. Dont buy. I will post details tomorrow. Off to dinner now.
Link Posted: 8/5/2017 9:26:12 PM EDT
[#2]
Fair enough.

I'll check back in tomorrow for the details. :-)
Link Posted: 8/6/2017 12:19:46 PM EDT
[#3]
pros:
7 stages
good leverage for sizing big cases
ergonomic left hand case feeding
priming seating depth is much better than Hornady LNL
positive indexing with a rod that goes though shellplate indicating its in position (unlike hornady)

cons:
too many small (easily bent, broken or lost) parts
priming slide breaks/hangs up easily - they improved slide but not enough
case feeder is a joke. again, small parts.
powder measures are crap. You would think since they look like Hornady measures they would measure as well. I have done everything to tune mine. Replaced with Hornady PM
die plates expensive- started buying the Uniquetek ones which are great. Swap my Hornady measures instead.

RCBS customer service is good but replacement parts are usually not in stock.
I doubt there will be upgrades/improvements - seems RCBS thinks it works fine

Reason I keep her?
i run medium volume loads on it.. they have shellplates for everything even 5.7x28. Good to have powder check on that one.
I also love the extra positions for black powder reloading. I use compression die for that. Else I would run on my 550 or 1050.
Link Posted: 8/6/2017 1:03:19 PM EDT
[#4]
I have the 5.  

At first it's great then as you run it over time all the little cheap parts wear and break.  

The primer slide are still crap .

The case feeder is a nice option with the Dillon hopper but again the small cheap parts break .

I haven't used mine in about a year now and have moved on to Dillon.  

Don't waste your money on Rcbs and go blue.
Link Posted: 8/6/2017 8:22:17 PM EDT
[#5]
Well then, guess I'll have to look at a 1050.

Thank you both.
Link Posted: 8/6/2017 8:46:16 PM EDT
[#6]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Well then, guess I'll have to look at a 1050.

Thank you both.
View Quote
I love both of my 1050's.. I really didnt need two but got a deal on them. Would never give them up.
Link Posted: 8/6/2017 9:01:06 PM EDT
[#7]
I picked up a 550 and a 1050.  Won't ever go back.
Link Posted: 8/6/2017 9:29:33 PM EDT
[#8]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I picked up a 550 and a 1050.  Won't ever go back.
View Quote
Good for you! That really is the best combination of presses to own.
Link Posted: 8/6/2017 10:11:16 PM EDT
[#9]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Good for you! That really is the best combination of presses to own.
View Quote
I agree.  The 1050 makes brass prep easy and I load on the 550.
Link Posted: 8/7/2017 12:51:14 PM EDT
[#10]
Its really too bad as I was hoping that RCBS would have it on point when starting from scratch and being able to see what works and what does not and actually asking people what they want.  They chose not to do that...

Hornady to make a 7 stage press that uses LnL bushings IMHO.
Link Posted: 8/7/2017 1:11:02 PM EDT
[#11]
I was interested in this press two years ago, glad I didn't buy one.  Looks like RCBS is once again not committed to a true Dillon progressive competitor.
Link Posted: 8/7/2017 2:44:46 PM EDT
[#12]
All their progressive presses have been either knock off or something a kin to a Ruger having the beta testing done by customers.
It is hard for a company to launch a product, especially something with a lot of moving parts!
RCBS is very good at customer service.  Dillon and RCBS have set very tall bar with respect to CS.
But, sometimes RCBS needs to learn it's limitations as we all do!
Link Posted: 8/7/2017 6:32:01 PM EDT
[#13]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
All their progressive presses have been either knock off or something a kin to a Ruger having the beta testing done by customers.
It is hard for a company to launch a product, especially something with a lot of moving parts!
RCBS is very good at customer service.  Dillon and RCBS have set very tall bar with respect to CS.
But, sometimes RCBS needs to learn it's limitations as we all do!
View Quote
They almost had it with the pro chucker, they just need to make some of the parts out of metal and not plastic .

I might re visit my press and mill out some of the parts .
Link Posted: 8/8/2017 10:57:50 AM EDT
[#14]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


They almost had it with the pro chucker, they just need to make some of the parts out of metal and not plastic .

I might re visit my press and mill out some of the parts .
View Quote
Is it just the primer slides breaking?  Or is it other parts like in the case feeder?
Link Posted: 8/8/2017 5:08:22 PM EDT
[#15]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Is it just the primer slides breaking?  Or is it other parts like in the case feeder?
View Quote
Primer slide don't last , the index rod is made of cheap pot metal.

The case feeders plastic parts wear, break or get grooves in them and throw the whole thing out of time.
Link Posted: 8/8/2017 5:22:18 PM EDT
[#16]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Well then, guess I'll have to look at a 1050.

Thank you both.
View Quote
I'd go 1050 as well if I needed the extra stations.

I don't NEED the extra stations and will probably get a 1050 at some point anyway.
Link Posted: 8/8/2017 5:50:55 PM EDT
[#17]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Primer slide don't last , the index rod is made of cheap pot metal.

The case feeders plastic parts wear, break or get grooves in them and throw the whole thing out of time.
View Quote
+1
Link Posted: 8/10/2017 11:42:34 PM EDT
[#18]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I was interested in this press two years ago, glad I didn't buy one.  Looks like RCBS is once again not committed to a true Dillon progressive competitor.
View Quote
(I was interested....) Me too, Jeff, but I don't think it's a lack of commitment......I just had an email from one of their engineers.......he's sounds pretty committed to me! He's been using the 7 since the beginning, and he was a Pro 2000 lover like me. He thinks the 7 is better in every way, except that he misses the APS primer system. The Market ruled on that system, so they changed back to tubes......but he's hoping that APS, or something even better will eventually come back for the safety of it.

He's convinced that those who break the P.C. 7 would break any progressive .... being that progressives have to be learned and never forced during the learning process. I can see his point. Dillon makes "maintenance kits" for their 650s (the parts that break). That leads me to believe that they break when forced as well. I personally have witnessed a new 650 user break his......and we both spent the next half hour picking up primers and sweeping up powder all over the floor. And I admit to breaking a part on my Pro 2000......once.....then I learned the "feel". IOW's, when something’s not right stop and fix the problem rather than push though it, breaking things.

I have observed the last 10 years that people give Dillon a lot more slack than they do RCBS. Blue presses aren't perfect either......I don't think there is such a thing as a perfect press. The one thing that is equal in my observations are that the two companys totally support their products and customers.

When I emailed this engineer, I have to admit my patience is thinner than it used to be, and I probably sounded a little irate, being that I've been waiting since the press came out for some good news of product stability. IOW's I want one only when the bugs are worked out.....and unfortunately, for me at least the window may end up closing. But that's just me, as I may have to quit reloading period in a few years, no matter what I reload on. (Unless my Health starts improving).

But back to the email, and what I heard/gleaned:

1. That they ARE going to offer the P.C. 7 die heads separate from the powder measure.....it's in the works. (when is still a secret I guess)

2. That the beefed-up primer slide is working. They are NOT willing to make it break proof. The reason? They want it to fail first to prevent the kind of primer disasters that can hurt you. (they want a "safe" primer system)   [I think if they put their minds to it they can achieve that without broken parts.]

3. The company is receiving more positive feedback than negative now. And their success rate with talking customers past the learning curve is high. [I still see no evidence of that on the forums]

4. Finally, he told me that with my progressive experience, I shouldn't have any problem with the P.C. Seven. But! If I should decide to buy one, and don't like it, they will be happy to refund everything.......no questions..... He did not think I'd be returning it.

I dunno........thinking about it....I must be nuts....I have a progressive that works just fine......but 7 stations! Geeze.
Link Posted: 8/11/2017 8:30:01 AM EDT
[#19]
GHW, I don't believe RCBS is being very honest with you. I called Dillon about the 1050 before I bought my first. Rep assured me their one year warranty was really just a guideline. They don't want to put a lifetime warranty on it because of commercial customers. Truth was anytime I had an issue during that first year, I got a warning my warranty was almost up.
Point: Reps will tell you anything to sell their product.

With the 1050, the issues were all me. Once I started to understand, I haven't had any issues. Don't recall the last time I broke something.

With the PC7, they really screwed up design. I understand not wanting to have a failsafe on priming system. Hornady's primer slide track break's away preventing catastrophic fail. RCBS primer slide just breaks. And it happens all the time. No warning. No way to prevent. NOT user's fault - no matter how experienced you are.

The other small parts just slowly bend/wear as you use press. For example, the indexing lever is not much thicker than a paper clip. If by mistake, you let ram fall, it can easily snap. Fine, I can take responsibility for that. But even with normal use it starts to bend slowly making timing worse.

I have always been very happy with RCBS customer support. Much better than Dillon. I bought RCBS to replace a LNL and have given it too much patience. But truth is the press is really as bad as everyone has posted.  

If you really only have a short time left to reload, I highly recommend you don't end reloading career using such junk.
Link Posted: 8/11/2017 5:18:18 PM EDT
[#20]
All I can say to his matter is from day one the blue has worked and I haven't had to replace anything yet.  

The green not so much.
Link Posted: 8/14/2017 10:31:15 AM EDT
[#21]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



(I was interested....) Me too, Jeff, but I don't think it's a lack of commitment......I just had an email from one of their engineers.......he's sounds pretty committed to me! He's been using the 7 since the beginning, and he was a Pro 2000 lover like me. He thinks the 7 is better in every way, except that he misses the APS primer system. The Market ruled on that system, so they changed back to tubes......but he's hoping that APS, or something even better will eventually come back for the safety of it.

He's convinced that those who break the P.C. 7 would break any progressive .... being that progressives have to be learned and never forced during the learning process. I can see his point. Dillon makes "maintenance kits" for their 650s (the parts that break). That leads me to believe that they break when forced as well. I personally have witnessed a new 650 user break his......and we both spent the next half hour picking up primers and sweeping up powder all over the floor. And I admit to breaking a part on my Pro 2000......once.....then I learned the "feel". IOW's, when something’s not right stop and fix the problem rather than push though it, breaking things.

I have observed the last 10 years that people give Dillon a lot more slack than they do RCBS. Blue presses aren't perfect either......I don't think there is such a thing as a perfect press. The one thing that is equal in my observations are that the two companys totally support their products and customers.

When I emailed this engineer, I have to admit my patience is thinner than it used to be, and I probably sounded a little irate, being that I've been waiting since the press came out for some good news of product stability. IOW's I want one only when the bugs are worked out.....and unfortunately, for me at least the window may end up closing. But that's just me, as I may have to quit reloading period in a few years, no matter what I reload on. (Unless my Health starts improving).

But back to the email, and what I heard/gleaned:

1. That they ARE going to offer the P.C. 7 die heads separate from the powder measure.....it's in the works. (when is still a secret I guess)

2. That the beefed-up primer slide is working. They are NOT willing to make it break proof. The reason? They want it to fail first to prevent the kind of primer disasters that can hurt you. (they want a "safe" primer system)   [I think if they put their minds to it they can achieve that without broken parts.]

3. The company is receiving more positive feedback than negative now. And their success rate with talking customers past the learning curve is high. [I still see no evidence of that on the forums]

4. Finally, he told me that with my progressive experience, I shouldn't have any problem with the P.C. Seven. But! If I should decide to buy one, and don't like it, they will be happy to refund everything.......no questions..... He did not think I'd be returning it.

I dunno........thinking about it....I must be nuts....I have a progressive that works just fine......but 7 stations! Geeze.
View Quote
I was hoping the PC presses were really on point, and all early video I seen of the press had me hopeful.  From what Ive read here, and elsewhere, they are less than that, and Im glad I didnt take the plunge into buying one.  

From an engineering stand point, this is my biggest beef:  Designing parts of the press as break items for safeties sake  

The primer slide issues are inexcusable.  When is the last time you seen a 1050 or a LnL go boom other than popping a single primer?  Please find me an actual documented case of it, Ill wait.  These should be made from steel, and the safety portion of it should be done with a breakaway mechanism that you simply reset.  The APS system?  Its dead Jim, stop beating a dead horse.  Its no more or less safe than a case activated primer system that feeds a primer when a case is present.

The 7 station heads only available with powder drop is ridiculous.  Lets see, how can we screw over our customers?  

Positive feedback?  Like what?  RCBS had a chance to look at all the presses on the market and start with a clean sheet.  They could have incorporated things like on press swaging with an add on (think SwagIt), breakaway primer system (think LnL), good case feeding (think Dillon), basically taking all the best parts of several different presses and making something new.  They also cheaped out on several fronts in the build quality as has been pointed out numerous times in this thread and elsewhere.

As far as breaking stuff?  The only part Ive replaced on my LnL in 50k+ cycles is 2 case retainer springs.  Granted my LnL requires more tuning than a Dillon, but it runs pretty well.  

Can RCBS turn this around?  Yes, they actually could, but they need to go back to the drawing board and shore up some of the parts that have issues and redesign parts.
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