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Posted: 4/14/2017 2:07:10 PM EDT
This is occurring with different headstamps. The machine is clean and runs well except for this.  Winchester SPs. Eight out of sixty were like this.

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Link Posted: 4/14/2017 2:35:50 PM EDT
[#1]
Make sure your shell plate is not loose, if you push down on the #4 station and it has some wobble you need to tighten it up.

I chased this problem for some time and it was the shell plate causing it, did not make sense to me at first.  If you google this and flipped primers you will see this is dillons first course of action.

Also verify that your shell plate and primer location are lining up correctly.  If they are not you can adjust this by the black block on the left of the press with the 45deg, this is the part the turret advance linkage dohicky activates on.  No idea what the proper names are
Link Posted: 4/14/2017 2:52:21 PM EDT
[#2]
9mm seems to be the most critical.  S&B cases do it almost 100% and I try to cull them.  

Put a mark on your shell plate and see if it is the same position that does it every time.  I have had an out of spec shell plate before. They are hardened, so fixing this yourself is nearly impossible. 

Lastly, loosen the two screws on your primer feeder and make sure that the seater is centered in the shell plate slot.  I believe the instructional video tells you to do this while actually seating a primer and then tighten the screws.  

I also had one shell retainer button that I had to reduce the o.d. on to keep it from interfering with the 9mm cases.  

Essentially, use good light, put on your reading glasses or magnifier, and take a real good look at what is happening.


Make sure you didn't mix up the large and small primer feeder parts.  Shit happens.

And what the guy that posted above my post said, along with adjusting that black locator, you can actually get it too tight.  I backed mine off very slightly so the shell plate can find center.  Make sure your shell plate slots are clean and free of debris or tumbling media.
Link Posted: 4/15/2017 5:48:28 AM EDT
[#3]
Dillon also recommends adjusting the position of the leaf spring that acts as the locator pin so that it's about the thickness of a business card away from the case when it comes to rest above the primer. This will allow the case to float a little and the arriving primer can actually true up the case in the station.

There an entire section on how to fix this in the back of the 650 manual.
Link Posted: 4/15/2017 9:57:52 AM EDT
[#4]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Dillon also recommends adjusting the position of the leaf spring that acts as the locator pin so that it's about the thickness of a business card away from the case when it comes to rest above the primer. This will allow the case to float a little and the arriving primer can actually true up the case in the station.

There an entire section on how to fix this in the back of the 650 manual.
View Quote
Done before I called Dillon up yesterday.  Still having this issue despite calling Dillon.  Their parting advice was to slow down and also pause to let the priming disc catch up.
Link Posted: 4/15/2017 7:19:06 PM EDT
[#5]
Link Posted: 4/15/2017 9:55:39 PM EDT
[#6]
how stable is your bench ?

When I moved, I tried to setup my 650 on a small temporary bench

it was too flimsy and I started tipping primers.

the 650 likes a SOLID bench.

.
Link Posted: 4/15/2017 10:45:03 PM EDT
[#7]
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Quoted:

how stable is your bench ?

When I moved, I tried to setup my 650 on a small temporary bench

it was too flimsy and I started tipping primers.

the 650 likes a SOLID bench.

.
View Quote
I'll second this. I had my 550B on a 3/8" thick bench top on a Dillon strongmount for a few years and when I put the 650 on the strongmount I noticed way more press movement and bench flexing.

I added a 3/4" thick piece of plywood under the 3/8" ply and ran 2x4s from front to back for the strong mount to bolt into. Much more solid and the press doesn't move around near as much during the upstroke or pushing forward on the handle when west gets a primer.
Link Posted: 4/16/2017 6:54:34 AM EDT
[#8]
I see this far more often with Winchester primers. Changed to CCIs and the problem went away
Link Posted: 4/16/2017 9:07:44 AM EDT
[#9]
Dano526, beer is owed.  I'll be in CO sooner or later on my way to the big square state above it.

Chase, the bench is super solid. No doubts about it.

Allcon, I will tear apart the primer assembly later today per Dano's instructions.

Also, I have a problem with 147gr 9mm rounds not passing Dillon case gauge.  They're loaded to 1.13.  All Dillon dies, sizing die adjust per Dillon instructions, neck tension set to .379.  Do I have a problem or should I just bump the COAL down to 1.1 flat or so?
Link Posted: 4/16/2017 10:04:13 AM EDT
[#10]
Link Posted: 4/16/2017 2:07:08 PM EDT
[#11]
Link Posted: 4/18/2017 5:12:11 PM EDT
[#12]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Easy fix,

Pull your primer assembly off the machine.

Pull the prime tube, and rotary primer disc off the assembly.

Pull the primer punch housing off the machine.

Now, lets start from scratch,

Primer punch assembly.  If the punch is protruding above the housing top surface, you need to pull the primer punch assembly apart to clean the debris out of it that is not allowing the punch to drop all the way back down.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=https://youtu.be/Ufbuc6FBXFY

If the punch is recessed below the top of the housing, then get Dillon on the phone to send you are replacement punch assembly.
Bottom line it, the primer punch should be flush with the top of the housing!!!!
http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w128/pbucket_pics/reloading%20gear/P1010224.jpg

Next thread the primer punch into the sub plate and tighten it, and make sure that the top of the housing and face of the primer punch is flush with the sub plate surface. .001" to .003" (thickness of about a sheet of paper is fine), but the top of punch face and housing face should not be proud, or way low of the sub plate surface.
If you have problems here, then get Dillon on the phone, since you may need both a new primer punch assembly, as well as a new sub plate if you have peen the hell out of the sub plate bottom by over tightening the primer punch assembly.

Here, the top of primer punch and punch housing assembly top surface is way too low to the face of the sub plate and you can see how the primers are not only dropping down to the punch surface, but carving the surface of the sub assembly out as the primers not used are carrier to the ski ramp afterwards as well.
http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w128/pbucket_pics/reloading%20gear/P1010209.jpg


Onto the primer assembly.
Start with the primer tube, and check the bottom of it (brass section) to make sure that is clean/bur free, and not oblonged where the primer is going to drop out of the tube brass section.  Most of the time you can just clean up the ID of the brass section to fix any flaws, but something you may need a new tube if the ID is way gone instead.

Next, put the tube in the blast sheild and seat the tube all the way into the assembly channel, then look at the bottom of the primer assembly to make sure that the end of the tube brass section is flush with the bottom surface of the primer assembly face.  Again, .001" to .003" is not bad for the end of the tube being slightly higher than the assembly surface, but you don't want more than this (end of the tube flush with the surface of the primer assembly being ideal ).  Here, most of the time is just a peen edge on the brass section seating flange lip that is holding the tube up in the step channel that just needs to be resolve instead, but some time you have a miss match that needs to be resolved instead.

Before you install the primer carrier back in the carrier, take a look at the wave washer (5) for the carrier center pin.
This is the correct way that the wave washer should be sitting, and don't forget to lightly grease. Also double check the rotary primer disc channels to make sure that you don't have a bur on one of them cause a less then stellar drop out of the tube to the disc channel to cause a problem there.
https://www.dillonprecision.com/docs/650_Pg_53.pdf

Regarding the plastic primer follower rod, put a 45ACP on the top button of it to add a touch more weight to the follower tube.

Next of the list, break out your sub plate alignment tool, and make sure that the sub plate is correctly indexed to the tool head.  I bring this up, since one of you tool heads may be off and needs to be replaced to match the rest of your sets.  Not only this, but double check the amount of tension you have on the case rims at primer via the tension tab, and make sure that if you are using crimped primer pockets, that the crimps have been swagged out with enough radus taper to the primer pocket that the primer can find and enter the case primer channel cleanly a well.
Note, reason that I really like the 1050, and keep the swager in play.  Hence some cases the primer pocket pocket entry radius sucks to begin with (too dam sharp entry walled or still has some remnants of primer staking), and when you start adding in rims that are not ideal sized as well (rim tension via the primer assembly tension tab not centering the case in the shell plate over the ram), the primer really has no chance in hell of entering the  case primer channel cleanly to start with isntead; even if the case primer pocket is sitting dead center over the primer punch with primer on top of it.

Some will say that they will not use such and such brass, but if you just run the brass through a swager to clean up and taper the entry taper into the  primer channel to correct the problem, it does solve a lot of the brass priming problems isntead.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=https://youtu.be/rxe8xt_u1NI





Lastly, make sure that you have the correct primer tube and the correct primer carrier in play for the primer sizes being used.  Way too may times, the problem is either a large primer tube, or large rotary primer disc (or both) being used for small primers that cause a problem isntead.



So to sum it up, we want the brass section of the primer tube to be clean so no primers can flip in there, dam near zero gap between the bottom of the tube and the rotary disc so the primers don't have a place to flip as they are dropping into the channels, the surface that the primers are riding along, flush all the way to the primer ram so the primers can not flip there, and as well as the primer tube clean with enough weight on the primer stack via the 45ACP case on the plastic follower rod to keep the from flipping in the tube stack.  From there, all you have left is to make sure that the sub plate and shell carrier is correctly indexed, as well as the cases primer pocket raduis correctly, so during the only last of time that the primer is not being captive (on the punch and into the primer pocket), it a clean shot up with nothing for the primer edge to catch to flip the primer.
Note, when you are adjusting the shell plate indexing, make sure that the indexing tab is indexing the shell carrier all the way to the next potions, and not just the indexing ball pulling the shell plate into the final position.  
I bring this up, since the first mod you do for 9mm is clip the indexing ball spring and install a mylar ball so the shell plate is not snapping the last of the way to spill powder, and if you don't have the shell indexing  set correctly, then the shell primer pocket is not going to be in the correct position to receive a primer to being with.

Sub plate indexing and primer assembly to primer punch a touch(primer assembly not indexed to  primer punch when the assembly was reseated and bolt tightened) , and the shell plate way the hell out of tune as well.
http://i.imgur.com/XuO73uG.jpg

If you have any question, then post photo's of your parts/problems,  and I can walk you through the needed corrections.
View Quote
Did this all and she passed fine except I don't have a sub plate alignment tool, needed a little cleaning, that's all.  I sincerely appreciate your time and knowledge.
Link Posted: 4/18/2017 5:34:51 PM EDT
[#13]
Link Posted: 4/18/2017 6:02:38 PM EDT
[#14]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

Call Dillon for that tool.
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Its a must have and not sure why its not included with the press..
Link Posted: 4/18/2017 10:01:28 PM EDT
[#15]
Looks like I need that tool, this happened during a small run after cleaning and checking everything per Dano's instructions today.  

At least the Lee FCD put out consistently good ammo, no more case gauge problem.

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Link Posted: 4/19/2017 7:36:47 AM EDT
[#16]
Often overlooked and just as important as the platform alignment tool if not more, is the primer punch alignment tool.

Get both and use the primer punch alignment tool after the platform is set proper.
Link Posted: 4/19/2017 7:56:41 AM EDT
[#17]
If you bought the 650 used,  you should be able to get a full refurbish from dillon

they will rebuild it, good as new, and it won't cost you a dime, except the shipping to AZ

.
Link Posted: 4/19/2017 8:20:24 AM EDT
[#18]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Looks like I need that tool, this happened during a small run after cleaning and checking everything per Dano's instructions today.  

https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/109690/IMG-1380-190496.JPG
View Quote
Looks like the shell case isn't shoved all the way into the shell plate.  Could just be the camera angle though
Link Posted: 4/19/2017 9:27:23 AM EDT
[#19]
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Quoted:
Looks like the shell case isn't shoved all the way into the shell plate.  Could just be the camera angle though
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Yeah, it was fine.

The machine is new.
Link Posted: 4/19/2017 2:50:32 PM EDT
[#20]
Link Posted: 4/19/2017 3:36:57 PM EDT
[#21]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Often overlooked and just as important as the platform alignment tool if not more, is the primer punch alignment tool.

Get both and use the primer punch alignment tool after the platform is set proper.
View Quote
I looked for this tool on Dillon's website and couldn't find it.  Any more information on it?
Link Posted: 4/19/2017 3:45:10 PM EDT
[#22]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I looked for this tool on Dillon's website and couldn't find it.  Any more information on it?
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Often overlooked and just as important as the platform alignment tool if not more, is the primer punch alignment tool.

Get both and use the primer punch alignment tool after the platform is set proper.
I looked for this tool on Dillon's website and couldn't find it.  Any more information on it?
Interested as well...
Link Posted: 4/19/2017 5:18:09 PM EDT
[#23]
I had that problem with my 650.
Called Dillon and was told I wasn't pulling the handle correctly. I carefully explained to the guy on the phone that I had loaded 50,000+ rounds on a 550.
No, he said, you are not pulling the handle correctly. I called again. Anndd again. Same story each time. I was losing 3% or more primers. Too many.
I talked to a guy at SHOT who showed me how to adjust the little gate on the shell holder at station 2. The thickness of a business card is what you want, he said. I did that. NO joy.
Fiddled with it. Never worked right. Put the 650 aside and used one of the 550s for awhile.
Finally ordered a new primer system for large primers-I was loading 45 acp.
Bingo! Tolerance stacking I suppose. Thing works great now. I have never figured out what the problem was as it came from the factory.
Link Posted: 4/20/2017 8:51:29 AM EDT
[#24]
Sub plate alignment tool en route from Dillon!

FYI, bullets are .356.
Link Posted: 4/20/2017 9:46:29 PM EDT
[#25]
Link Posted: 4/21/2017 12:28:45 PM EDT
[#26]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Looks like I need that tool, this happened during a small run after cleaning and checking everything per Dano's instructions today.  

At least the Lee FCD put out consistently good ammo, no more case gauge problem.

https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/109690/IMG-1381-190497.JPG

https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/109690/IMG-1380-190496.JPG
View Quote
That really looks like the rotary primer disk is not indexing all the way to the next station, or just enough that it causes problems. I have had a few crushed primers from trying to go too fast and short stroking the press on the handle pull. Slowing down slightly, focusing on a smooth and deliberate pull/push, and going the full range of motion helped solve most of my issues.

After that, proper lubrication cleaned up any remaining issues I had.

One other easy check to make, is to see if the primer cam on the frame is as low as it can go. It's on page 50 of the manual, part #25.
Link Posted: 4/21/2017 2:07:16 PM EDT
[#27]
Link Posted: 4/25/2017 8:39:29 AM EDT
[#28]
Got the primer punch alignment tool in yesterday, used it per the instructions (easy), and ran through 100 rounds of 9mm.  Got three crushed primers.  Should I call Dillon and ask for the sub plate alignment tool or blame the Winchester SP primers I'm using?
Link Posted: 4/25/2017 9:00:47 AM EDT
[#29]
get in front of your 650 and call dillon tech support

they will probably send out a whole new primer assembly



here's some light at the end of the tunnel-- my 650 runs like a top, more reliable than my 550b priming system

I recently loaded 1500 9mm, 1000 40, and 1500 223, without trouble

.
Link Posted: 4/25/2017 9:02:37 AM EDT
[#30]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

get in front of your 650 and call dillon tech support

they will probably send out a whole new primer assembly
View Quote
I hope so.  This will be the third time I've called them in front of it.
Link Posted: 4/25/2017 6:37:18 PM EDT
[#31]
Only issues I've had with my 650 compared to my 550 are due to running the press too fast and small primer 45ACP brass sneaking into the mix.

A sturdy bench, a smooth/consistent up and down stroke, and a machine setup for the intended caliber per the instructions in the 650 manual have been 100%.

Totally possible there's a part out of spec, but make sure the above are done first and then do as already mentioned and call Dillon while in fthe not of the press.
Link Posted: 4/25/2017 7:50:09 PM EDT
[#32]
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Quoted:
or blame the Winchester SP primers I'm using?
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are they all you have?
I had this happen and it was the primers. when i looked at them close they had like a flange, they were rough
in a way others weren't. forget what they were but i ended up using them later and avoided them for a while.
Link Posted: 4/26/2017 12:33:03 PM EDT
[#33]
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Quoted:


are they all you have?
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Yes, I prefer CCIs.
Link Posted: 4/26/2017 12:50:22 PM EDT
[#34]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Only issues I've had with my 650 compared to my 550 are due to running the press too fast and small primer 45ACP brass sneaking into the mix.

A sturdy bench, a smooth/consistent up and down stroke, and a machine setup for the intended caliber per the instructions in the 650 manual have been 100%.

Totally possible there's a part out of spec, but make sure the above are done first and then do as already mentioned and call Dillon while in fthe not of the press.
View Quote
I have already done all of those things as previously mentioned and spoke to Dillon in front of the press 3 times, gotta call Dillon again.
Link Posted: 4/26/2017 4:14:05 PM EDT
[#35]
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Quoted:
Interested as well...
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Often overlooked and just as important as the platform alignment tool if not more, is the primer punch alignment tool.

Get both and use the primer punch alignment tool after the platform is set proper.
I looked for this tool on Dillon's website and couldn't find it.  Any more information on it?
Interested as well...
You have to call and ask for it.
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