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Posted: 2/15/2017 1:29:17 AM EDT
[#1]
https://load-data.nosler.com/load-data/458-socom/
New one I saw recently from Nosler .... |
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Posted: 2/15/2017 2:18:30 AM EDT
[#2]
No data in Hornady 10th. No data in Hodgdon's 2017 Annual Manual. Nosler 8th has data for their 300 gr. Ballistic Tip and 300 gr. RN CT Ballistic Silvertip. (same data as the Nosler link above)
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Posted: 2/15/2017 10:22:40 AM EDT
[#3]
Thx for info. Saved me money from buying the 10th. I wish Nosler would post 500gr data. funny they have a link to their list of bullets which include 500gr bullets.
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Posted: 2/15/2017 10:38:14 AM EDT
[#4]
Lyman 50th has data as well.
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Posted: 2/15/2017 11:18:22 AM EDT
[#5]
Im assuming you have asked on the 458 SOCOM forums?
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Posted: 2/15/2017 11:58:15 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Im assuming you have asked on the 458 SOCOM forums? Bah.. I am not even on facebook. You have no idea how hard it was for me to open up an account on this forum. I am hoping to get "published" info as I dont want to risk an SBR with unpublished info. I did just notice Accurate has load data. Link on Tromix site. Guess I will try 1680 first. |
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Posted: 2/15/2017 3:01:52 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Bah.. I am not even on facebook. You have no idea how hard it was for me to open up an account on this forum. I am hoping to get "published" info as I dont want to risk an SBR with unpublished info. I did just notice Accurate has load data. Link on Tromix site. Guess I will try 1680 first. Take a look here: http://458socomforums.com/index.php?board=24.0 I dont think you need to be a member to view |
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Posted: 2/15/2017 6:25:34 PM EDT
[#8]
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Posted: 2/15/2017 7:19:48 PM EDT
[#9]
I believe Lyman's AR manual has data on it if I remember correctly.
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Posted: 2/15/2017 10:48:53 PM EDT
[#10]
Western Powder, Nosler and Lyman all have published data.
I highly recommend staying away from Lil Gun. As said before the SOCOM forums are full of info. |
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Posted: 2/15/2017 11:27:49 PM EDT
[#11]
Thanks guys. I will probably stick to the Accurate, Nosler and Lyman data for now since I have a ton of 1680 and 300MP. Really what I am lacking is cast data but I can come up with something from the jacket data I am sure.
Hopefully Hodgdon gets it in their manual soon. |
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Posted: 2/16/2017 12:11:55 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thanks guys. I will probably stick to the Accurate, Nosler and Lyman data for now since I have a ton of 1680 and 300MP. Really what I am lacking is cast data but I can come up with something from the jacket data I am sure. Hopefully Hodgdon gets it in their manual soon. Are you shooting gas checked bullets? I know Acme is making 458 cal bullets now that are HiTek coated. I like them for 9 and 45, might be a good fit for 458. I dont have a 458 yet, but I am looking at my options for bullet and powders before I jump in and build an upper, and buy all the equipment. I have the powders and primers on hand already. |
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Posted: 2/16/2017 3:13:18 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Are you shooting gas checked bullets? I know Acme is making 458 cal bullets now that are HiTek coated. I like them for 9 and 45, might be a good fit for 458. I dont have a 458 yet, but I am looking at my options for bullet and powders before I jump in and build an upper, and buy all the equipment. I have the powders and primers on hand already. I mostly run a Saeco gas checked and PC'ed bullet in 45-70 so I will start with that. Thing it drops around 340gr or so. I also have a bunch of pulled 500gr jacket bullets to try but feel it would be a waste without a can... I have slowly been buying upper parts and reloading stuff as I saw a deal on 458... Plan on finally building it this weekend. |
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Posted: 2/16/2017 5:28:23 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Western Powder, Nosler and Lyman all have published data. I highly recommend staying away from Lil Gun. As said before the SOCOM forums are full of info. Care to elaborate on the Lil Gun advice? Just wondering if I'm missing something since I use it with Berries 350 gr. plated bullets and have never had an issue. In fact the load I worked up is very accurate out of my Tromix 10.5 barrel. |
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Posted: 2/16/2017 10:13:15 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Care to elaborate on the Lil Gun advice? Just wondering if I'm missing something since I use it with Berries 350 gr. plated bullets and have never had an issue. In fact the load I worked up is very accurate out of my Tromix 10.5 barrel. Myself and many others have seen wild pressure swings with it. When one primer is fine and the next looks way over pressure it freaks me out. I initially tried it, but that and the ridiculous recoil made me switch. Don't get me wrong, it does load the fastest ammo out there but the fact that Lyman ONLY listed it for use with 500 gr. bullets is pretty telling to me. Add to that the Hodgdon has never said a peep about it. 1680 gave me very accurate, stable and fast ammo with the 325 FTX. That's the only load I really ever plan to shoot anyway. Maybe some subs when my Hybrid comes through. |
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Posted: 2/16/2017 11:35:13 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Myself and many others have seen wild pressure swings with it. When one primer is fine and the next looks way over pressure it freaks me out. I initially tried it, but that and the ridiculous recoil made me switch. Don't get me wrong, it does load the fastest ammo out there but the fact that Lyman ONLY listed it for use with 500 gr. bullets is pretty telling to me. Add to that the Hodgdon has never said a peep about it. 1680 gave me very accurate, stable and fast ammo with the 325 FTX. That's the only load I really ever plan to shoot anyway. Maybe some subs when my Hybrid comes through. Someone in thread last year on the 458 forums mentioned that they pulled 458 SOCOM ammo from Wilson Combat and it looked like it was Lil'Gun. Forgot the charge. |
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Posted: 2/16/2017 11:37:49 PM EDT
[#17]
I did not have very good success with H4198 with 300gr bullets. Got a lot of unburned powder.
Read that h4198 is better for 400+gr bullets. The Lyman 330gr Gould mold is great and accurate out of my SOCOM. Powdercoated of course to prevent leading of the gas port. |
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Posted: 2/20/2017 10:07:37 PM EDT
[#18]
I recently did an extensive search on load data for the 458. I concentrated my loads on the hornady ftx 325 gr and the barnes tac tx 300 gr. I had on hand h110 and lil gun. You wont find hornady data. I called. They have not tested the 458. Barnes has load data for the 458. Several of the gurus at 458socomforum have tested the hornady FTX 325 gr. Consensus is 2.22 on OAL. Powder varies. I tested lilgun and h110 and lilgun gave me 1/2 moa at 100 yards out of my tromix 12 inch barrel. 29 grains of lil gun was 1660 FPS.
h110 gave the best results for the Barnes. 1/2 MOA at 100 yards. 28 gr of H110 loaded to 2.24. Barnes lists 27-29 grains. 28 grains was my node at 1620 FPS. Work up your own loads. Those two bullets compair about the same in ballistics gel. Youtube has a video. Texas boar hunters. I believe they compared many bullets in gel. The Barnes will run you about 55 bucks a box. Midway has factory blemishes on the hornady ftx right now at 33 a box. You should aim for moa with your loads. These arent precision rounds. They are hog stoppers good to 125 yards. They really drop off after that range. I use CCI 350 primers. Starline brass is very stiff upon first load. Bullet seating will be harder. After first firing, anneal the necks and seating is much easier and you get more consistent results. I use the 750 tempilaq for annealing. Good luck. 
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Posted: 2/20/2017 10:16:07 PM EDT
[#19]
thanks for posting that. very helpful!
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Posted: 2/20/2017 10:28:52 PM EDT
[#20]
458socomforum is the best place for info. I read through lots of posts. Talked with Tony at Tromix about loading for my barrel. Theres a guy there, big bore that answered my questions. Its damn exoensive to buy ammo and to load for too. Dont look at it like you would a precision rifle. Its the grunt of the mix. Try for MOA or less than 2 inches and you will be in the vital zone for any shot. Plug those velocities into a calculator and you will see how bad they fall after 125 yards. I use ballistic AE app.
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Posted: 2/20/2017 10:54:58 PM EDT
[#21]
I am mostly running cast and some pulled 500's.. So, not expecting precision. I got the same Tromix barrel. Just built upper on Saturday:
I noted the hard case necks on Starline brass last night. Hornady dies dont have expanding die so cast is out until my m die arrives. |
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Posted: 2/21/2017 12:25:31 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I am mostly running cast and some pulled 500's.. So, not expecting precision. I got the same Tromix barrel. Just built upper on Saturday: http://i1348.photobucket.com/albums/p727/djryan13/Stuff/A21629E9-014C-4F15-8BB2-6CAC728B7819_zps9nsqc6sj.jpgI noted the hard case necks on Starline brass last night. Hornady dies dont have expanding die so cast is out until my m die arrives. My next order of starline, Im going to anneal right off the bat and see what happens. I bet I wont go through the my current 100 rounds though |
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Posted: 2/21/2017 12:31:30 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My next order of starline, Im going to anneal right off the bat and see what happens. I bet I wont go through the my current 100 rounds though Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I am mostly running cast and some pulled 500's.. So, not expecting precision. I got the same Tromix barrel. Just built upper on Saturday: http://i1348.photobucket.com/albums/p727/djryan13/Stuff/A21629E9-014C-4F15-8BB2-6CAC728B7819_zps9nsqc6sj.jpgI noted the hard case necks on Starline brass last night. Hornady dies dont have expanding die so cast is out until my m die arrives. My next order of starline, Im going to anneal right off the bat and see what happens. I bet I wont go through the my current 100 rounds though It's a low pressure round of 38,000 psi plus the large bore I have yet to trim my brass. Actually, after your first shot the casing will shrink abbot and as long as you don't go full power your brass will last a long time. |
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Posted: 2/21/2017 12:34:05 AM EDT
[#24]
I also mounted a Leupold 1-4x hog scope on my SOCOM.
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Posted: 2/21/2017 3:38:20 AM EDT
[#25]
I have been toying with buying one of these uppers. To me, they seem like a 45-70 in a semi-auto action.
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Posted: 2/21/2017 10:18:23 AM EDT
[#26]
I would just say as always, work up in your own rifle.
I made a modified case for mine and 2.22" with the FTX is touching the lands. That, along with a hot charge of Lil Gun could be a bit dangerous. |
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Posted: 2/21/2017 11:30:08 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I would just say as always, work up in your own rifle. I made a modified case for mine and 2.22" with the FTX is touching the lands. That, along with a hot charge of Lil Gun could be a bit dangerous. If this is an AR upper, either you have made an error in post or there is something wrong with your throat. I am seating my 500gr fusion bullets to just under mag length in my Tromix and don't appear to be having issues. I don't have an easy way to test but they are not stuck and feed fine. I had an issue like you are having with my Shilen grendel barrel and had to ship it back. It wouldn't even work with store bought Hornady A Max ammo. So, it was definitely not something I was doing. I was absolutely pissed with Shilen after the issue as they didn't seem to believe the issue and made me pay to ship it to them. Very disappointing. Works great now. Anyway, I have some 500gr rounds loaded to shoot in two weeks. I also have an M die coming to load the cast PC'ed bullets. How many of these things do you guys run on a normal range trip? I am not making as many as I normally would for load testing as I am not sure I can handle the recoil. Call me a wimp. I know my limits. |
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Posted: 2/22/2017 12:10:55 PM EDT
[#28]
This is a Sheridan Engineering case gage. It pretty accurately models a Tromix chamber. This is how I load my FTX, at roughly 2.19".
This is the same bullet touching the lands of the gage using my modified case. Notice it is only 2.21". The chamber of my rifle has a slightly longer leade to the lands than the gage, but I still don't attempt to load out to 2.3". Every bullet has different construction. Lyman 50 lists the COAL for the FTX at 2.145". As always YMMV. Don't trust the internet. 
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Posted: 2/22/2017 12:22:05 PM EDT
[#29]
I have only taken my to the range 2-3 times to work up loads. I shoot 4 shot groups instead of 5 and I am just looking for a good group for hunting, not precision. I was able to get them to group well (1/2) MOA at 100 yards. I am happy and called it quits. That's good enough for hunting. This rifle won't be a range toy. I bought it so that I could hunt hogs on hopefully take out two with one shot and not waste ammo on the beasts.
One other thing about those who have issues with rounds chambering. 458 reamers are licensed. Find a barrel maker that uses the licensed reamers. Tromix does and their prices are very reasonable. I bought my upper with barrel and upper receiver and left everything else off on the purchase and put on a noveske rail and my own finishes. Their barrels are quality. I have seen, not all, wilson combats having problems with ammo going into battery. How many do I load for range? Well I loaded 100 of them 50:50 mix of barnes and hornady last week. My next range trip won't be until my hybrid arrives to check POI and then I'm off to hunt. |
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Posted: 2/22/2017 12:26:20 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This is a Sheridan Engineering case gage. It pretty accurately models a Tromix chamber. This is how I load my FTX, at roughly 2.19". http://i648.photobucket.com/albums/uu206/lokifoxbt/BFA76528-35AE-4678-9292-8AF41B4BE88E_zps1ihbxsff.jpg This is the same bullet touching the lands of the gage using my modified case. Notice it is only 2.21". The chamber of my rifle has a slightly longer leade to the lands than the gage, but I still don't attempt to load out to 2.3". Every bullet has different construction. Lyman 50 lists the COAL for the FTX at 2.145". As always YMMV. Don't trust the internet. http://i648.photobucket.com/albums/uu206/lokifoxbt/0F8C991B-B131-4F03-8D3C-85EF288AE883_zpsgpt3ubig.jpg Barnes lists their tac tx at 2.24. Haven't had a problem. But measuring the OAL isn't really accurate with a soft tip. Best way is to measure ogive. I don't have a bushing for my hornady head case gauge, so I haven't done mine, but I relied on the Barnes data and they work fine. Hornady doesn't have a bushing listed for the 458/45-70. I load my Hornady FTX to 2.22 because that's seemed to be the consensus of the guys over at 458socom (called hornady and they have no data). By all means, load to what you think best for your rifle. I just did that because it was suggested. I don't plan on measuring Ogive. I found two rounds that work well and will devastate the tissue in a hog. I also have the tromix gauge and that's my verification........and my barrel is tromix. there is a manufacturer that loads the FTX not to the cannulure but short of that for a longer OAL. black butteryfly maybe. Mine look shorter when loaded to 2.22 http://www.blackbutterflyammo.com/products/rifle/458socom/#bwg8/54 My Barnes look exactly like this at 2.24 http://www.blackbutterflyammo.com/products/rifle/458socom/#bwg5/37 didn't know lyman has Hornady FTX 458 data. Can you post that? I've got an older lyman |
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Posted: 2/22/2017 1:04:43 PM EDT
[#31]
... Just throwing this out there, the Barnes is a purpose built SOCOM bullet while the FTX is not. They don't have the same construction.
The numbers I posted above are the ogive touching the lands. If you load past that your bullet is probably being pushed back when you chamber it unless you crimp the hell out of it. If you don't check it in your barrel you have no idea what's actually going on. It's not uncommon for people to load way out of the realm of published numbers. The Lyman data isn't even pressure tested while Western shows a MAX load of 1680 at 2.16" with a pressure of 34,445 PSI. The max pressure the bolt is designed for is 35K PSI. So what happens when you jam that bullet into the rifling and create much higher pressure and bolt thrust? I'm not saying you shouldn't load like that in your gun, but just reading what others are doing without checking it against your gun isn't a good idea. |
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Posted: 2/22/2017 1:13:44 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
... Just throwing this out there, the Barnes is a purpose built SOCOM bullet while the FTX is not. They don't have the same construction. The numbers I posted above are the ogive touching the lands. If you load past that your bullet is probably being pushed back when you chamber it unless you crimp the hell out of it. If you don't check it in your barrel you have no idea what's actually going on. It's not uncommon for people to load way out of the realm of published numbers. The Lyman data isn't even pressure tested while Western shows a MAX load of 1680 at 2.16" with a pressure of 34,445 PSI. The max pressure the bolt is designed for is 35K PSI. So what happens when you jam that bullet into the rifling and create much higher pressure and bolt thrust? I'm not saying you shouldn't load like that in your gun, but just reading what others are doing without checking it against your gun isn't a good idea. I spoke with Tony at tromix. He also confirmed all the information I needed.. He made the barrel. And is one of the pioneers of the 458 socom. I feel at ease. and while the hornady isn't marked as a 458 socom, it is highly used and even sold by black butterfly. 4:52 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOKyfE3AAdY They have a ballistic gel comparison of many rounds and the hornady and barnes are one. The gel speaks for itself as far as purpose goes. One other thought about seating the FTX further than 2.1, is that there is less case pressure due to less compression. |
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Posted: 2/22/2017 3:37:26 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I spoke with Tony at tromix. He also confirmed all the information I needed.. He made the barrel. And is one of the pioneers of the 458 socom. I feel at ease. and while the hornady isn't marked as a 458 socom, it is highly used and even sold by black butterfly. 4:52 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOKyfE3AAdY They have a ballistic gel comparison of many rounds and the hornady and barnes are one. The gel speaks for itself as far as purpose goes. One other thought about seating the FTX further than 2.1, is that there is less case pressure due to less compression. Got it. All machined products are identical and you shouldn't work up load data for individual firearms. Rechecked my barrel with a new batch of FTX. This lot will go out to about 2.3" safely. All I am getting at is people might read this thread with their new Radical Firearms upper (or any brand for that matter) and break parts or hurt themselves because people are stating that unpublished load data is safe in every gun. It isn't. That's all there is to it. |
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Posted: 2/22/2017 3:57:43 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Got it. All machined products are identical and you shouldn't work up load data for individual firearms. I'm sure you are kidding. Since there isn't published data on but a few bullets, then caution is a must. Work up loads as you would any caliber. After speaking with Hornady, a tech, I proceeded to work up the FTX with recommendations from the manufacturer of the barrel and what several that have proceeded me. I know all the risks and with a wildcat like this, it's all you can do. just got an email from my barrel manufacturer. He said you can load bullets out to 2.26 without running into the rifling. That's my barrel though. So, I'm good on all fronts. |
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Posted: 2/22/2017 6:34:22 PM EDT
[#35]
My pulled 500gr bullets cant be seated any shorter that just inside mag so I am going with that. Good to know that cut out case gauge matches Tromix. I am using it too. My hornady sizer die only sizes brass a hair below flush. The dummy rounds feed so hoping rest do.
Thanks for great info guys. |
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Posted: 3/3/2017 9:58:47 PM EDT
[#36]
Loaded a variety of rounds to test new upper tomorrow. I have some of the 365gr Saeco GC mold with 1680, some 500gr pulls (think they are remington) with 1680, and some Nosler 300gr Spitzers (overrun at SPS) with 300MP.
I am disappointed in Nosler's data. I like to try their most accurate listed powder but that happens to be H4227... Bah! How old is that data? Powder is discontinued. I debated trying 4198 but have so much 300MP... and this little case is a powder hog. Not going to chrono tomorrow but will once I am close to a load to try. 
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Posted: 3/19/2017 10:35:34 PM EDT
[#37]
Had some chambering issues with the Cast bullets. Think it is the OAL (not mouth) causing issues. Odd since they fit the gauge. The dummies I made chambered ok.
My results with the Nosler 300gr's was fantastic. 4 shot groups at 50 yards with 2x red dot were a clover. Of course this is a huge bullet hole so maybe that's not saying much. I found 34.4gr load of 300MP to be a winner for those Nosler's. I will load more and take it out in a couple weeks. |
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Posted: 3/20/2017 3:18:25 PM EDT
[#38]
4227 in not discontinued, I used it in several loads today. Lately my go to powder is LT30. With the Socom you'll find yourself buying powder in 8 lb kegs.
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Posted: 3/20/2017 4:19:33 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
4227 in not discontinued, I used it in several loads today. Lately my go to powder is LT30. With the Socom you'll find yourself buying powder in 8 lb kegs. |
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Posted: 3/22/2017 12:43:43 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I am pretty sure H version is discontinued. IMR is not. Not the same. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
4227 in not discontinued, I used it in several loads today. Lately my go to powder is LT30. With the Socom you'll find yourself buying powder in 8 lb kegs. |
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Posted: 3/29/2017 11:37:59 PM EDT
[#41]
Pretty good thread.
Just got into loading for the .458 SOCOM, Have some Berry's 350 gr, Hornady 325gr FTX, and a 350 NOE Ranch Dog mold and will be PC'ing and gas checking it. I have 1680, W 296, Lil' Gun, but that doesn't sound like the best choice. May need to look for some 300 MP. I'm actually assisting a friend who bought the Tromix upper and barrel. He is paying, and I will be loading, with his labor on my equipment. But I get to shoot for free. 
We'll have some casting parties, which is good, help me to get motivated, and have some help in places, which I can really use. Lot of reading and searching lay ahead. |
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Posted: 4/1/2017 3:18:17 AM EDT
[#42]
So, all the stuff showed up today, got the upper built, just need to scrub the barrel and snap it on a lower
Went over to the LGS and found some #8 loading trays, .45 caliber cleaning tips and bore snake, My contribution to this endeavor. Main thing is I got some 300MP, and another pound of H4198, also a box of the Nosler Ballistic Tip 300gr. So I have some of the Nosler, and Hornady 325 FTX here and ready to load. So I am looking to load some of the Nosler's with the 300MP, Info I found in Lyman 50th. Tromix 16.25" barrel, Tromix upper Nosler 300 gr Ballistic Tip 300-MP 33.0gr minimum to 35.0 gr max. 2.100" OAL or Hornady FTX 325gr H4198 33.0gr minimum to 35.0gr max. 2.145" OAL I don't want to cut corners here, but for now, I only have 50 of each. Until We can cast and PC some, want to try and be very efficient with load testing. With this size cartridge how much do you step up at a time? .02? With Hornady 325gr FTX and Nosler Ballistic Tip 300gr 300-MP, H4198, H-110, 1680, Lil' Gun all on hand. Starline Brass CCI 350, also have some Wolf LP's on hand Is there a proven, safe go to load? I looked locally and there is no commercial ammo to be had, wouldn't really want to pay the price anyhow. Just something known safe to put a few rounds down range? IDK, read so many books, and read so much here and on 458socom forum, my brain is scrambled tonite. Time to put it away til tomorrow. I hope to make up a load or two tomorrow. Thanks |
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Posted: 4/1/2017 2:00:52 PM EDT
[#43]
Problem is... jacket bullets are expensive and powder capacity is so high. You can go through a lot of both before you find a perfect load if you follow the usual work up. I ran 4 rnds of each (compared to 10+ when I run other calibers). Think I went in steps of .3. Was quite happy with a few of the groups. I picked the charge I mentioned above then went back with 30rnds of same the following week. Getting great clean burn in my 12" Tromix. Would love a suppressor on this thing but I am waiting to see if that bill passes first. I have a 12ga suppressor in jail already and with my luck, they would pass the bill right after my stamps are approved.
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Posted: 4/1/2017 3:29:34 PM EDT
[#44]
What if I did this?
2 at 33.0gr 2 at 33.5gr 2 at 34.0gr then switched to .02gr increments. 3 at 34.2gr 3 at 34.4gr 3 at 34.6gr 3 at 34.8gr I just want to find a decent load to use with the Noslers for now. Something that runs the gun well, and is fairly accurate, not a speedball, just like some off the shelf ammo. Once I get that done, We'll start getting into trying all the different load developments with different bullets and cast PC'ed bullets, and all the different powders.. |
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