I know I'll need a lube-sizer. To keep cost down I'm thinking of grabbing a used Lyman 450 off EBay. Anything in particular about these I should look for or avoid? Also it's obvious a used one will be positively filthy with left over lube. What's the best way to clean it?

I'll probably use BAC lube from lsstuff.com to start with because it doesn't require a heater. Planning to buy NOE moulds. Still conflicted on the pot. The Lee 20lb bottom pour comes cheap but there's a lot of complaining about leakage. Considering ladle casting with a bottom pour ladle to start with, but not sure yet. Don't want to spring $300 off the bat for the rcbs pot which is very well liked from what I can tell.

Agreed with dryflash. Just started doing it the other day and it's easy as pie. Not to mention much cheaper. Get a powder coating set up and a lee sizing kit for under $80 easily. If you buy everything used(oven, dies ect), you can get set up for under $40.

I love casting. I am fairly new to reloading too and i really enjoy both. As dryflash says shake and bake powder coating is the way to go.

Here is my third attempt at casting.

300 blackout is a NOE .311 230 grain Flat nose. A guy over at CB removed the lube groves.

9mm is a MiHec 359-125 (9mm) HP Flat base.

For us black powder guys, the lube sizer is still important.

I did switch smokeless to PC though.

I think I'll still need a sizer though. Most 45 moulds, for example, drop bullets at .452" diameter. My 1911 absolutely will *not* chamber .452" bullets. I have to have .451" or I have to run them through a lee FCD (which swage them down to .451).

Could I use the Lee sizing does that work with a single stage press? Can it be used without lubing the bullets before sizing?

Yes i use lee push through sizers on my single stage press after powder coating.

So the powder coating is hard enough to withstand going thru a sizer then? Good to know.

Yes. I just powder coated them (picture below). Afterwards i ran the 300 blackout through the .311 lee push through sizer with no visable damage to the coating. The good thing about powder coating is you dont need any lube for the lee sizer the powder coat acts as lube.

OP. Power coating more often than not survives bullet impact.

The number 1 test for powder coating "The cube test" or some call it the hammer test. A properly coated bullet should withstand being hammered into a cube shape without the powder coating coming off.

A lot of us have also found that we can size bullets with the Lee push through dies without any lube or powder coating on them without having any problems. This comes in handy for me because I size down to .311 then let the PC add it's small amount. (I don't have a .312 or .313 size die.)

Don't you just love it when the very first thing you post turns out to be wrong ? In this case you should be happy.

I also powder coat some of my muzzleloader bullets.

Motor

The NOE push thru sizer is a cheaper option if you plan to sizemany calibers. I just started using. In general, I like it but metal is prone to tarnish. I dont lube it because I sometimes size before coating. Dont want lube on bullets.

Still works fine even with a little tarnish.

That is interesting, I thought the powder coating would come off from sizing. Thanks for explaining that.

Ebay is a great place to find casting stuff IMO.

NOE molds are pretty nice, if you go PC they and a few others make some minus lube groove. Lee 2 cavity molds are pretty good for getting you feet wet IMO, could be I just have good luck with them.

My Lee 20lb pot doesn't leak bad often, when it does a quick back and forth of the adjuster almost always stops it, I find dropping the handle rather than lowering it less leak prone, a drop every 5-10 pours doesn't bother me.
I do think I will invest in a PID controller within the next year for better temp control.

I have done some PC, not wild about it for anything high volume, extra steps for minimal benefit I don't push velocity hard, don't have leading problems, not worried about exposure, and have to size anyway, so lube/size and done.

Yup. If your coating is flaking off during sizing, your oven is probably too hot. Happened to me first time around, so I turned down the heat and haven't had that problem since.

Well, you guys did it to me again.  First wet tumbling and now powder coating.

I have lots of wheel weights, a 4 cavity H&G .45 mold and a casting pot, all of which were paid for decades ago.  Today I bought a jar of Airsoft black BBs.  I still need powder (Harbor Freight?) a bowl, foil and a

toaster oven.  I like the feeling of independence and the cost is minimal.  Oh yeah, I won't care how scarce components become.

HF red works. If you go to castboolits smoke sells powders of all different colors that work with the shake and bake method. Smoke's powders are more expensive though.

Smoke4320 over at castboolits sells great powder in all colors. I also hear HF red works. Cost isnt much of an issue 1 pounds will last 10,000+ bullets.

Totally agree, just thought it was worth mentioning.

I got a couple pounds of polyester Diamond Vogel powder off a vendor on eBay.  Was like $12/lb shipped free.  

I initially was trying HF red powder, and it worked good with the Elvis Ammo (Youtube) method of preheat then shake and bake, but was actually kind of thick.  Switched to the better powder, and while the coating was thinner when done, it coated better, and was easier to size with the Lee sizers..

As a side note, if shake and bake, stay away from the matte finish powders.  The matting agent kills the static that makes shake and bake work.

I'm not sure I'm going to do any more 9mm, but larger, lower volume rifle stuff I will definitely be continuing with.  For the 9, and maybe even 45, I will likely just use SNS coated, since they are local to me and my time can be a bit short in supply, not to mention their price is very attractive for what you get.

Doesn't appear anyone really answered your question.

 Ebay is a good place to start. NOE moulds are fantastic, I have several and wouldn't take for them. Lee pots are OK, but I'd look hard for a used SAECO or RCBS after buying a Lee to get you started.

 "Getting into casting" threads like this always turn into "powder coating" how-to threads. Personally I cannot in my wildest imagination fathom  just starting casting and that learning curve, and having to deal with learning PC-ing too.

 Come to think of it, I have an extra RCBS sizer laying around I never use. PM me if you're interested. It's just taking up space in my shop. BTW I use an RCBS and an old Lyman 45 sizer. Both work great, but RCBS customer service is unequaled.

    I can't see how lube is messy but handling bullets with colored powder on them isnt. Dont you have to wear gloves or use some sort of tweezers to handle bullets with uncured powder on them? It's all relative.

  Traditional lubing and sizing is the simplest, quickest way to prepare cast bullets to shoot. They're handled once and one only needs one piece of equipment, a lubrisizer. Both methods have their respective virtues, but other than shooting cast bullets at extremly high velocities, PC-ing simply offers nothing over a properly sized and lubed bullet and will never replace a traditionally lubed bullet.

 Same with wet/dry brass cleaning. I do both, because both have their virtues, but neither is "the best".

a proper setup push through lube sizer is very hard to beat , but then again few people will drop the coin to have that

setup . I use 2 lube sizers and a p/c shaken bake set up, if I'm dicking a round I'll p/c but if I'm needing to burn

through a batch then the lubsizer is the hands down the go to set up.

ETA: JamesP81 I'd powder coat before I'd buy a Lyman 450

A Star lubrisizer is in my experience the most efficient manner by which to prepare a cast bullet for loading. Mine is hands-down my best investment I've made and I wish I'd have bought one years ago.

 

  The 40 or so HP bullets sitting next to the Star took a little over 1 1/2 minutes to lube and size. What's not to love???

  My traditional lubrisizers, the Lyman 45 and RCBS LAM2 are now only used for lubing and sizing small lots when I don't want to change a sizing die out of the Star.

  I don't have a problem with those who enjoy piddling with PC-ing, but think it's misleading when it's presented to would-be casters as the best and easiest way.

want to see the Star really shine add the bullet feeder and a M/A systems collator , it'll spit bullets as fast as you can pull the handle

No doubt!

 I've seen the youtube videos of the guys who have bullet feeders and a simple air pressure set up to keep the lube feeding and they knock them out! I've timed myself on several occasions and sizing/lubing at 30 bullets per minute is not terribly difficult, but the lube plunger has to be screwed in a little from time to time, so probably 25 per minute is more realistic. That's 250 bullets lubed and sized in 10 minutes. Just taking ones time, 20 bullets per minute can be done easily. There's a 60 second video on youtube in which the guy is hand feeding bullets and he does 25 bullets in 40 seconds. That works out to over 35 per minute! So even without any bells and whistles, it's an amazingly fast piece of machinery.

Aren't there other down sides to lube? I think i read about it making a mess of things like seating dies and smokes when you shoot them?

I admire guys that cast. I have been reloading well over 25 years. Tired about everything except casting. Wish I had the room to do so.

Dosnt take much space at all. I store the pot in my garage and do the casting on my back porch.

I got into it a little under 10 years ago.  Back then I was going bat shit with the prepper mindset and I figured after the balloon went up I'd be able to make my own ammo instead of relying on companies to make it.  

I've calmed down a tad but the ability to mold my own bullets, harvest my own lead for free, and re-use brass means I just have to stock up on primers and powder and I'll be set.  I actually took a 5 year break from casting.  Came back to find my Lee molds safe and sound....and my Lyman rusted to shit.  I'll stick to Lee from now on.  I know if I would have kept the Lyman oiled....but I don't like having to baby my gear.  

Getting set up to cast was a hell of a lot cheaper than the gear to reload.  It takes a cast iron pot, cheap soup ladle I had in the kitchen, gloves, and then the molds.  I use branches and other wood for fuel so I don't even pay for fuel.  

Search emtfifteeneightyone on youtube and you'll see a couple vids I made using a fire pit and a rocket stove to cast.  Works really well.  

Good luck!

-Emt1581

Here' my opinions for what they are worth- ie, not the paper they are printed on, but thought I would share my experience. Apologies to those who may differ.

1. Powder coat gives faster velocities - that was not my experience the one time I tested this. It was with the Lee 356-120 TC mold over a load workup of Power Pistol from 5.0 - 5.5g from a HK P30. In all but 5.5g the traditional lubed bullet yielded a SLIGHTLY higher average velocity.


2. This test also yielded smaller group sizes with traditional lubes at every charge weight


3. GENERALLY with PC you can go a bit softer or more forgiving on your alloy. If you have a square cut rifling (unlike the Glock or HK) this really seems to hold true. Not that PC is not successful in polygonal rifling. It is just my experience that polygonal rifling is not as forgiving of softer alloy under any circumstances. YMMV. I've read of guys shooting 10bhn out of Glocks PC'd.


4. For production NOTHING beats a Star. I have one and 1,000 bullets lubed, sized ready to go in an hour is nothing.


5. Powder coating using the shake and bake method gets me about 300-350/hr


6. HF Red did not work for me. Others in humid climates have made it work. No matter what I tried, I  could not.


7. Smoke4320's powder has never failed. Even while doing it in a shed during a downpour.


8. PC bullets are more fun to load the cartridges because they are slicker- dumb, but it is more fun


9. I've never had an issue with traditional lube gumming up my dies

All in all, I prefer traditional lube. The whole shake, pluck 20-30 out, shake, pluck 20-30 out, is a bit tedious for me and really starts to affect my back. My wife really likes the blue bullets I make her for her revolver and it does keep her hands cleaner at the range so.........I PC for her and lube for me.



I'm also in the midst of working up a comparison of traditionally lubed bullets and Hi-tek coating just for curiosity sake. Hi-tek takes about the same time as PC because you have to do two coats, but it is less tedious. I could probably up my production of Hi-tek by putting them more dense in the tray.



If my choice was a Lyman or RCBS lubesizer or PC, I'd go PC. Since I have a Star and PC, I do what I want on any given day.



If I was starting out....I'd say go for PC. The barrier to entry is lower but I would definitely recommend Smoke's powder. No question. He personally tests every color.

for shake n bake I have no problem dumping them on a hardware cloth tray, when pulled from oven I run a gloved hand through them and have no problem with them sticking together

If I ever get the room I'll set up a system to do several K at a time with HiTek coating , but right now I'm happy lube sizing at 4400 an hour

I'd say there's TOO much urban legend internet myth out there. This pot drips, I can do 10,000 bullets an hour, too much smoke or gumming up dies. This or that alloy will work with this firearm but not that. ETC!!!

My 2 cents that isn't worth 2 cents:
I'd get a lee #20 pot. Sure they leak but it isn't like they drip 10# of the 20#'s of lead you have in them. How about simply using clean fluxed lead in it. When you 1st get it take the stem out of it and put some toothpaste on the end, put it in an electric drill and polish/mate the 2 surfaces (hole in bottom of pot to stem). From there keep a piece of wire handy and every now and then empty the pot completely and run the wire up into the whole cleaning everything out. Well what do you know no more drip!!!!
Start with a couple lee molds. They are cheap, easy to use & pretty much bullet proof. You want to establish a learning curve looking for how to tell if a molds too cold/hot, opening too fast/slow, etc. Get to where you can cast quality bullets.
Go with the push thru sizers and the lee tumble lube. Learn how to get enough lube on the bullets and how the lube works. Then learn how to modify the lee tl by thinning it or doing a lee tl/paste wax/mineral spirits (45/45/10) or something similar. This will give you a learning curve that doesn't cost a lot of $$$$. Don't like the tl at least you will have an idea of lubes, how they work and what they bring to the table. From there you can use what you have if you'r happy with the results, step up to rcbs/lyman/star sizers of use the push thru sizers you already have and try powder coating bullets.
Keep you lead/alloy's simple. For decades I used 1 alloy for 99%+ of my shooting/casting needs. Namely range scrap. I'd cast bullets and air cool them for light/target/plinking loads and water drop the bullet to make them harder for rifle/mag/hot loads. Simple enough!!

Personally I've cast bullets for 30+ years and I'm glad I did. The big thing is to get basic equipment and actually learn how to cast, how to lube, how to read what affects the different aspects of casting. Heck an old pan a, spoon & piece of candle, cheap kitchen ladle, a lee 2-cavity mold and a lee push thru sizer kit (sizer + tl lube) and whatever lead you have laying around will get you started. The big ticket items are the push thru sizer and the mold. Decide casting is for you, upgrade to a bottom pour pot. Expand/test different mixtures with the lee tl looking for dry time, tackiness after drying and smoke at the range along with suit buildup from extended periods of range time/high round counts. Test air cooled (soft) bullets vs water dropped with the same loads/firearms. From there if you're still in the game you can decide if you want to still tl or step up to a mechanical luber/sizer or try powder coating.

By far the most expensive way to lube a bullet is with a mechanical luber/sizer.
The cheapest way to lube/size a bullet is using a version of the lee tl.
Powder coating is in between the 2 but it does ring a lot to the table.

Myself I cast my own bullets and do a combination of tumble lubing them, traditional luber/sizers, traditional luber/sizers with tl lube also and pc the bullets.

The big thing is to learn how to actually cast a bullet. What you do with them after that is a matter of personal preference.

While the Lee dripping was annoying, I had a bigger issue with temperature regulation in my Lee 20 lb which was the last straw for me. I didn't lose a lot of lead from the dripping but I would come out of a session covered in drips (it bounces!).

I don't have the patience you guys have with stuff like that. If your time is more valuable than the money, then go with RCBS. If you have the time to mess with it, go with Lee.

Edit: I don't consider the dripping an urban legend. I have casting clothes covered in drips as evidence.

 EXACTLY!!

 

I totally agree with this. I don't want to buy a piece of equipment then have to work on it. One thing that is rarely mentioned is resale value. Good quality steel moulds such as SAECO, Lyman and RCBS maintain a level of resale value and I'd just as soon buy one of these used as new. You can't wear them out!