Going to try casting.  I've read that resizing is not always required.  Is this true?  What determines if it is?  Is it things like lead composition, casting temperature, mold dimensions, etc?  Is there a specific mold that is more likely to not need resizing?  

If I can avoid resizing/lube and use hi-tek I think it will be worth my time and effort. If I have to buy a fancy lubrisizer it wont be cost effective.  I have unlimited free lead and only need to buy a mold and the hi-tEk coating if I can avoid resizing/lubing.  If it matters I will be casting 44mag and/or 45 colt at moderate weights for use in rifles and revolvers.

Most of the things you listed will in some way affect size.

If you are going to coat or PC bullets, you don't need to lubri-size. Just get a cheap Lee push through sizer and you will be GTG with bullets sized to whatever you want them to be.

And, no, you may not even need to size them, it depends on a lot of things.

Agree with above.

Alloy plays a big role in final size.

I size if nothing else but to shave off any imperfections in powder coat which can hang up the bullet feed die. Sonetimes that means pushing them through a die at about same diameter as the coated bullet.

NOE makes a nice push through sizer. Its cheaper if you plan to size multiple sizes. Also, if you want non standard sizes, its way cheaper than going custom with Lee.

I agree with all of the above. I have an RCBS Lubrisizer, but seldom use it. The Lee push-thru dies are great, and inexpensive. They also seat gas checks very nicely. I cast everything I shoot (including AR's) and have about 20 molds. Ask me [email protected]

Always looking for lead. Not easy to find sometimes here in rural Vermont.

cap

http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_Contents.htm

Just in case you don't already have this reference....

I found it very handy along with the few that are published through normal book stores.

There are many reasons to seek the correct final diameter when making bullets. With lead and the various bullet molds being just two of the major variables, it takes a little work to find the best combination for your rig.

If you are not too picky, you can jump to some standard rules of thumb and start cranking them out.

Just in case you hadn't thought of it, there are plenty of folks on the castboolit website that would likely trade you their used casting equipment for your lead.

I pan lube a lot of my bullets and never have to size them.       It all depends on what size the bullets come out of your mold and what size your barrel is.

I saw the push-thru sizers... The lee instructions say you have to lube the bullets first with their alox.  Can you do it without the alox?  If so I would do that as those sizer dies are cheap and fast.

I would happily trade lead for stuff, I have an endless supply of fired bullets in north Alabama.

Def. read that link. If you think you will just melt some lead into a mold coat it and shoot....you will be disappointed. Fit is king. Start by slugging the bores. a .001 difference can be the difference between happy and not.

Also, I personally found that powder coat was more forgiving of alloy. Hitek and traditional lubes required harder alloys. Get the Lyman #4 manual as well.


I don't mean to sound harsh, but all shortcuts in casting end with Chore-boy and Lewis Lead Remover. That said, I cast a couple thousand a month with basic Lee equipment (and a Star lube sizer). Some I PC, some I lube. Wouldn't have it any other way.

If you powder coat you won't need the alox. Just push them through after you powder coat.

I use a little cheap case lube (lanolin mix). Never tried without. I then spray with purple cleaner and rinse. Yeah, you have to dry but I use a pasta strainer and let them sit overnight.

There is a lot to casting that's what makes it so fun. There are very few absolutes too. For just about every "you can't do this" you'll find someone who has and done so very successfully.

Powder coating has really taken off. A lot of us find it necessary to size before powder coating for one reason or another. As usual need led to experimentation. Many of us are now using the Lee push through size die without any lube whatsoever and know one has had any problems that I have seen.

Cast bullets have a lot of tolerance on size as long as that size is larger than what is required. Too small is never good.

Of course there are limits but it's pretty simple.

I used to shoot most of my cast bullets "as cast" but since I started powder coating, which adds a little to the bullet diameter, I size most of them.

One exception is my 7.62x54R for my 91-30 which slugs at about .3135"

My bullets drop @ .3125" so the powder coating brings them up closer to where I like them to be.

This same bullet I size to .311" without any lube then powder coat to use in my M39s which have tighter bores than the 91-30.

That's the great thing about casting. You custom make your bullets and if you are lucky you can use the same bullet in several calibers just adjusting the size.

This is done all the time with 9mms/.357s and as already mentioned the various 30ish calibers.

Motor

Dont disagree for pre-PC casting but for PC, I think a lot of rules get thrown out. Fit is no longer King IMO w/ PC. Run a ton of magnum rounds in multiple guns. I started the slugging thing but I am over it now. I still do for BP but I use a soft lead for that and standard SPG type lube so different indeed.

I just loaded up 45 PC'ed 30-30 rounds with a potent rifle powder with not a thought to slugging any of my 4 Winchester 94's... I am running the bullets fat with a GC but my mold is made for it so I do. Debating buying non-GC mold...

Powder coating is having an impact. There are some new bullet moulds made specially for powder coating. The bullets are completely void of any lube grooves.

There is also a new term that I first saw on the cast boolits forum its "polymer jacket" I think now it's being used commercially.

Motor

I use the lee push thru sizers along with a couple of different home made sizers. I have no problem sizing cast lead bullets in the lee puch thru sizing dies without any lube. They size plain lead bullets without lube just fine.

Don't know what you plan on casting bullets for but I'm glad to see you want to go with coated bullets. Welcome to the 21st century.

When I size bullets before coating them:
If the bullets I cast are way oversized, I don't like to size any bullet down more than 3/1000th's.
If the mold casts out of round bullets. Coating egged shaped bullets only make it worse, the end result is you'll be sizing 4/1000th's+ off of 2 sides of a bullet and nothing off the rest of it.

I size every bullet I cast/coat:
Consistency ='s accuracy
Consistent size ='s consistent bbl fit/consistent pressure which ='s accuracy
Consistent size ='s consistent crimp/neck tension which ='s a consistent powder burn which ='s accuracy

The bullet caster is only limited by their own knowledge when it comes to coating bullets. Some of the latest bullets that I either cast or swaged.

The small bullets (bottom left) are 70gr cupped hp'd .224" bullets for the 223rem.
The larger bullets (top center) are 135gr sp bullets .310" for the 308, that long straight body of the bullet acts like a wc bullet. What limited testing I've done so far has been impressive to say the least.
The pistol bullets (far right) are nothing more than the lee 125gr tl tc bullets that I removed the tumble lubes on. They are now a straight walled tc 130gr bullet. I left the top tl lube groove in 3 of the 6 cavities just in case I want to use them in a 38spl/357, that groove will be used as a crimp groove.



That lee tltc mold throws .360" bullets and after coating them they are .361"/.362" in diameter. I double size these with a .358" lee push thru sizer. Once before I coat them and then after I coat them. They are more accurate when I process them this way.

Get some lee push thru sizers and don't look back, they flat out work and it's nothing to run a couple 100 bullets an hour thru one. The bullets also size extremely easy when they are coated. The coating process has an interesting side effect on the cast/swaged bullets. The coating process uses heat to cure the coating. Typical heating is 400* for 15 minutes. This same process also anneals the elements in the lead alloy making the bullets softer which in turn allows them to obturate better than their traditional cast counterparts. This leads to a greater # of accurate loads when testing powder/bullet/firearms combo's.

http://www.lasc.us/FryxellCBAlloyObturation.htm

Playing around with a beater 629 truck gun. Was looking for mogb @ 25yds (mogb ='s minute of gold ball/1 1/2" groups) for a plinking load. Tried several different powder and bullet combo's using traditional casting/sizing/lubing methods. Ended up with 3 different loads. Decided to retest those same loads with coated bullets. Same dies/shooter/powders/alloy and mold/primers/mixed cases/same everything. Ended up with 13 loads when I switched to coated bullets.



The other thing I like about coated bullets and the push thru sizers is I can use a 1 size fits all thinking and it works. Have 4 different 44cal's and used to have to size the traditional cast/lubed bullets to fit the cylinders/bores of the different firearms. 2 of them liked .430, 1 wouldn't shoot anything under .431 and an older s&w 624 had .432 cylinders. The pc'ing process anneals the alloys making them softer but the coating protects the bbl from leading. The end result was that I started using .430" bullets for everything. They were soft enough to "bump" up to the .432 cylinders that the 1980's s&w 44cal's are famous for. But those .430 coated bullets could though they are soft could be driven with max loads/warp speed with extreme accuracy in a 629 and a contender. I'm down to 6 different 38spl's/357's and own several different 9mm and 45acp's. Doesn't matter what I pick up the bullets are all sized the same diameter when they are coated.

I use these lee psh thru sizers on plain lead and coated bullets.

.358" ='s 9mm/38spl/357's
.430" ='s 44spl/mag
.452" ='s 45acp
.224" ='s 223rem
.310" ='s 308/30-06

Keep it simple and remember that the key to loading coated bullets is to use the correct expander. I either use lyman m-die expanders. A typical lyman m-die expander ball that has a llooooonnnnngggggg body that will expand the case far enough so the long bodied cast bullets don't get their bases swaged down. The lyman m-die I use for the 45acp. The end/ball part of the expanders unscrew and other calibers can be bough and screwed on.



I made a custom expander for the 9mm, as you can see the factory expander left doesn't do vary much. But then again it is designed for the shorter smaller in diameter (.355" ) jacketed 9mm bullets.



If you use the correct expander your reloads won't have that bullet bulge look where you can clearly see the bullet in the case. The correct expander will allow for a more consistent case neck tension and less deformation/swaging down of the bullet because it isn't being squeezed into an undersized case. Or things like thicker brass/difference in the cases or work hardened brass vs soft brass are taken out of play. The end result is a more consistent round. One of my favorite 9mm plinking bullets, a 125gr hp.



That consistency thing I keep talking about. Those plinking loads (1100fps+) pictured above shot out of that 1911 pictured above. A 10-shot group at the 50ft line.



That accuracy thing again, the 125gr hp's big brother. Another favorite plinking bullet. A 158gr hp for the 38spl/357's. A couple of different 38spl plinking loads (both 900fps+) tested doing 6-shot groups @50ft.



Anyway, use the lee push thru dies, don't mangle your bullet's bases by trying to save 1 step in the process. If you mold/alloy casts a bullet 3/1000th's larger than your "target" diameter. Than size them 1st, then coat them and re-size them.

+1...

One thing I will add is that if you size pre coating, make sure bullets are free from any oils (from hands, die, etc) before you coat. I plan trying to size some without lube. Hadnt thought to. Normally I size post coat to avoid concern about oil on bullets before coating.

Nice write up 3221!

I'll be testing some .309 vs .311 Today, from the info you provided in another thread.

Thank you everyone.

Yes, had no problems using .309 bullets in a .301/.308 bbl. I switched to .310 out of convenience. I was using a standard .308 bell when working up the brass for the jacketed .308 bullets and the .309 coated bullets. I still use/shoot traditional cast/lubed bullets and paper patched bullets. I use a .310 bell for those (303 british). It's just easier to use 1 type of expanded case for jacketed bullets and another for coated/cast/pp'd. When I go to the range I shoot/compare allot of traditional cast/lubed vs coated bullets. It's easier to use the same lot/batch of cases for this instead of keeping them separated.

I make my own gas check makers and redid the gc forming rod when I started coating bullets. The difference isn't much and I can still use the new style of gc on both traditional cast and the larger shanks from the powder coating. I opened the flare on them so the sides of the gc are not as straight walled. And gave the bottom a little more taper, that taper makes it easier to start/seat the bullets squarely in the cases.



The redesigned gc's are on the left. I have a hornady  concentriciity gauge the clearly shows I'm getting allot less run out with the new gc's.

The other thing I like to do when installing gc's on coated bullets is to use super glue. I put 1 drop of super glue in gc and then install it on the coated bullet. Needless to say they don't come off while going down range causing fliers.