Powder Coated 300 BlackOut - Page 2

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Powder Coated 300 BlackOut (Page 2 of 2)

Posted: 7/22/2016 1:18:09 PM EDT

[#1]

Quote History

Quoted:

Dave. The lid of your ammo box says Lee 155gr. I thought you were using the 160gr.
dryflash3. You said your AOL with the 155gr is 1.760"?2.05 corrected How could Dave's be 2.016" ?
I'm confused.

Motor

View Quote

Can't answer for Dave.

Mold says 155 gr, mine come out as 160 gr.

Posted: 7/22/2016 1:23:03 PM EDT

[#2]

Motor, I am using the C312-155-2R 2 Ogive gas check bullet, Midway, when mine are PC'ed and GC'ed the are coming out 158-159gr. The Alloy I have mixed up is pretty hard.

I just looked and saw there is a 160gr TUMGLE LUBE design as well.

That test was shot at 50yds.

Posted: 7/22/2016 1:30:48 PM EDT

[#3]

We are both using the same bullet.

His OAL is different than mine. That happens.

Mine works for me, I'm sure Dave's works for him.

edit to correct OAL to 2.05

Posted: 7/22/2016 2:08:47 PM EDT

[#4]

Well I know ONE bullet did!

Seriously though, I did cycle 3 of them through by hand, it went good. I can seat deeper, and will if I have to.

Sitting here looking through My notes, if I remember right, I have to change the HG on the 300 BO to get a good accurate reading with the Magneto.

'maybe I'm not getting chrono this time out.

Posted: 7/22/2016 3:22:32 PM EDT

[#5]

Ok I got it but the difference between 1.760 and 2.016 is huge considering it's the same bullet and caliber.

That's more than 1/4" !!!!!!!

Motor

edit to correct OAL to 2.05 dryflash3

Posted: 7/22/2016 4:01:26 PM EDT

[#6]

I wonder if they made a change to the mould. I'm using a 6 gang, I believe Dry is using a 2?

I'm just barely covering the crimp groove, maybe I need to map out the dimensions, see if they are the same as Dry's mould.

Posted: 7/22/2016 4:15:15 PM EDT

[#7]

Posted: 7/22/2016 5:22:11 PM EDT

[#8]

I still don't have a good grasp of this ".250" diameter thing. Does it matter if they are seated longer?

If your bullet and dryflash3's are the same he's got a heck of a lot of bullet jump.

I think I'm going to start supper sonic with the 160gr 2R TL which weigh 170 with gas check. I'm undecided on a start load.

For sub-sonic I think I'm going to start with 4gr of Bullseye.

Motor

Posted: 7/22/2016 5:58:16 PM EDT

[#9]

Quote History

Quoted:

I still don't have a good grasp of this ".250" diameter thing. Does it matter if they are seated longer?

If your bullet and dryflash3's are the same he's got a heck of a lot of bullet jump.

I think I'm going to start supper sonic with the 160gr 2R TL which weigh 170 with gas check. I'm undecided on a start load.

For sub-sonic I think I'm going to start with 4gr of Bullseye.

Motor

View Quote

Yes I'm using 2 gang molds that are about 10 yrs old. Maybe different, don't know.

You measure the ogive, mark the .250 spot. That line needs to line up with the mag bump. I call that the .250 ogive rule.

It's how you get 30 cal bullets 180 grs and under to feed from a 223 mag.

Measure the outer diameter case neck of a 223 round. (.250)

Note the neck on a 223 round sits at the mag bump.

I have never worried much about bullet jump, proper functioning in a semi auto is way more important to me.

edit to correct OAL to 2.05

Posted: 7/22/2016 6:09:06 PM EDT

[#10]

dryflash3, Thank's, that helps a lot. So it would seem longer would OK because bullets that weigh more than 180grs would be longer. Having at least .250 diameter on the hump puts the point high enough to clear the front lip of the mag. So higher should not be a problem.

Motor

Posted: 7/22/2016 6:50:55 PM EDT

[#11]

That is kinda why when it seated to the CG at the longer OAL, and fed and extracted well, I went with it for now.

Ain't gonna make it back up today, the monster got me last night, laid awake till 4:00 AM, now My son is back from Port Orchard tonite for dinner. Maybe tomorrow.

Posted: 7/22/2016 8:22:35 PM EDT

[#12]

I did some measurements and using the .250" rule the 160gr 2R TL will end up being 2.040" AOL.

Interesting enough I also scribed a circle on the tip of a factory 120gr HP then loaded it into a magazine and sure enough it lines up with the hump.

Motor

ETA: I just found dryflash3's photo on the 300 BO thread and that is not the hump I waa referring to. The factory 120s are .250" where the hump in the tip of the stamped cartridge shape in the follower gets full size. This is 1.825" from the back of the magazine. (Universal INDS) GI 20rd mag.

This is probably close enough that either one will do.

Posted: 7/22/2016 10:08:24 PM EDT

[#13]

I find that My 5 sided ogive tool has a .250" hole, stick the bullet in there and twist a time or 2 and there is a nice ring around the bullet.

Posted: 7/23/2016 8:05:48 AM EDT

[#14]

dryflash3, not to second guess you but the hump you reference is approximately 1.760" from the back of the magazine. How can your OAL be the same if you are aligning where your bullet is .250 in diameter with this hump?

The tip of the bullet extends beyond that point.

Motor

edit to correct OAL to 2.05 dryflash3

Posted: 7/23/2016 8:16:16 AM EDT

[#15]

My measurements of multiple brands of metal magazines have the front guide rib of the magazine at really close to 1.70" from the inside rear of the magazine. Using this number for seating the 0.250 datum of the bullet, I've had excellent results.

What this seems to mean to me is that a) some magazines have slightly different rib locations and/or differing rear clearances, b) getting the 0.250 datum to or slightly behind the 1.70" rib location makes the bullets feed smoothly in my aluminum and PMag magazines, and c) meeting some precise, prescribed COAL is less important than keeping your COAL consistent with each load.

Posted: 7/23/2016 8:42:51 AM EDT

[#16]

That rib raises the front of the cartridge. I don't think you want your (250) behind this point. It needs to be on it or beyond it.

This is why it's only a problem with bullets under 180grs. They are shorter. Bullets heavier than 180grs have no trouble being larger than .250" at that point because of their length.

Motor

Posted: 7/23/2016 9:45:32 AM EDT

[#17]

Quote History

Quoted:
That rib raises the front of the cartridge. I don't think you want your (250) behind this point. It needs to be on it or beyond it.

This is why it's only a problem with bullets under 180grs. They are shorter. Bullets heavier than 180grs have no trouble being larger than .250" at that point because of their length.

Motor

View Quote

With lighter bullets, you need to ignore "magazine length" and set bullet seating depth to feed properly. With the heavier bullets, profile plays a big part. Heavy, round nose bullets, with wide ogives, will give you different problems, but you still need to pay attention to the .250 circle for proper feeding.

I'm not advocating seating that .250 circle much behind the rib, but I'm saying that if your bullets' .250 circle is "a little" behind it, they should feed fine. On the other hand, having the .250 circle in front of the rib can cause rounds to point too far up too early.

As I said earlier, it doesn't have to be precise to 0.0001", but you should have that .250 circle pretty close to the rib, and I think having it slightly behind the rib isn't a problem, since it hasn't been a problem for me and in my guns.

Posted: 7/23/2016 11:57:09 AM EDT

[#18]

On the other hand, having the .250 circle in front of the rib can cause rounds to point too far up too early.

I understand what you are say but have to respectfully disagree with this.

The reason for the .250 diameter dimension is because that is the OD of a loaded .223 round.

Being .250 at that rib insurers that the point of the bullet is as high as it is with the .223

I agree non spire point bullets changes things.

Motor

ETA: The above is just my view on the subject. I'm still studying.

Posted: 7/23/2016 12:52:29 PM EDT

[#19]

Quote History

Quoted:
On the other hand, having the .250 circle in front of the rib can cause rounds to point too far up too early.

I understand what you are say but have to respectfully disagree with this.

The reason for the .250 diameter dimension is because that is the OD of a loaded .223 round.

Being .250 at that rib insurers that the point of the bullet is as high as it is with the .223

I agree non spire point bullets changes things.

Motor

ETA: The above is just my view on the subject. I'm still studying.

View Quote

I agree - still studying here, too. I have been expressing my understanding of how these mechanisms work, keeping in mind that magazine design is a seriously black art.

Keeping the .250 diameter pretty close to the rib seems to be pretty important, but there are plenty of other factors that I don't have a clue about that are also at work here. I have not tried any spire point or (light weight) round nosed bullets seated with their .250 diameter ahead of the peak of the magazine rib because I've had excellent, problem-free feeding with everything I've used (up to 150 grain Hornady FMJs). But that doesn't mean that I won't ever have a situation where I might need to violate that rule...

Posted: 7/23/2016 1:44:38 PM EDT

[#20]

Quote History

Quoted:

On the other hand, having the .250 circle in front of the rib can cause rounds to point too far up too early.

I understand what you are say but have to respectfully disagree with this.

The reason for the .250 diameter dimension is because that is the OD of a loaded .223 round. At the neck

Being .250 at that rib insurers that the point of the bullet is as high as it is with the .223

I agree non spire point bullets changes things.

Motor

ETA: The above is just my view on the subject. I'm still studying.

View Quote

Posted: 7/23/2016 8:54:05 PM EDT

[#21]

Quote History

Quoted:
On the other hand, having the .250 circle in front of the rib can cause rounds to point too far up too early.

I understand what you are say but have to respectfully disagree with this.

The reason for the .250 diameter dimension is because that is the OD of a loaded .223 round.

Being .250 at that rib insurers that the point of the bullet is as high as it is with the .223

I agree non spire point bullets changes things.

Motor

ETA: The above is just my view on the subject. I'm still studying.

View Quote

The rib not only pushed the rounds upward it also pushed them toward center.

.250" isn't just a minimum at the rib. Too much larger than .250" can cause problems too

The issue is when the round is larger than .250" at the rib it pushes the tip of the rounds toward center at front when they are down in the mag. This can cause the shoulders to pinch and put outward force at the rear of the rounds causing them to bind. Tends to be worse in metal mags

Posted: 7/23/2016 10:07:03 PM EDT

[#22]

Very interesting.

So I guess you can't load long straight cast bullets even if they have pointed tips? It would seem almost impossible to seat them deep enough to get .250" at the rib.

Motor

Posted: 7/27/2016 2:33:16 AM EDT

[#23]

Sized and gas checked some more bullets to .311" and primed 100 cases. Going to make up a Lil' Gun ladder to test as well. Hands gave out, hopefully load them up tomorrow.

Going to see if I can make the Magnetospeed fit, I may change the Handguard if I have to get some velocities.

Posted: 7/27/2016 3:27:12 PM EDT

[#24]

I just thought about it, I never posted the thread I have over at CB.

CB 312-155-2R thread

In My first post, there is a link to another thread, look on page 2. Several others post that they are getting a OAL around 2.020" seating to the crimp groove.

Building a ladder of Lil' Gun up to 15.5gr to take with Me.

Posted: 7/27/2016 5:46:55 PM EDT

[#25]

Mistake on my part, the OAL I should have posted was OAL to 2.05.

Edited many posts.

Posted: 7/28/2016 2:23:46 AM EDT

[#26]

Quote History

Quoted:
Mistake on my part, the OAL I should have posted was OAL to 2.05.

Edited many posts.

View Quote

That makes me feel better.

I was really wondering if I was way off the mark, but now it's jiving.

Posted: 7/28/2016 8:05:58 AM EDT

[#27]

Sorry for the confusion, I also corrected my notes where I got the bad info.

So what I'm doing is seating in the crimp grove and using a light crimp with a FCD.

The trim length will be a factor in the OAL if you seat in the crimp grove.

I trim to 1.360, because I like even numbers.

Posted: 7/30/2016 4:18:48 PM EDT

[#28]

Tried some 245 grn coated ones today from Missouri bullet company that I'm using for sub's. They worked great using 8 grns of Lil gun in a 7.5" bbl using a H2 buffer.

Posted: 7/30/2016 6:23:45 PM EDT

[#29]

dryflash3 thanks for clearing that up.

I made a dummy round today with the Lee 160gr 2R TL. Like dryflash3 I like nice rounded numbers and 1.900" OAL looked good and feeds from the magazine.

The bullets weigh 166gr with HF red PC. I sized them .311" and did not use a gas check.

I used my RCBS .308 neck expander to apply minimum mouth flare. I still don't have a FCD and didn't want to re-adjust the seat die because it's set to crimp jacketed bullets.

I never intended to crimp these anyway just to remove the mouth flare. The mouth flare does drag in the free bore but it's not bad.

These loads will hopefully be sub-sonic and will be fed buy hand. The dummy round loads nice. I gently lower the bolt until it stops then bump the forward assist and it locks closed.

Motor

Posted: 9/8/2016 1:07:26 AM EDT

[#30]

I finally got out Monday and shot the loads I had worked up. Life has been kinda messed up lately, I just wanted to go and shoot, and it turns out Labor day is NOT the day to go to the range. So packed and crazy I didn't even bother getting the chrono out, just shot for accuracy. Was pleasantly surprised that all loads cycled and locked back, Lil' Gun and W-296.

I think that the W-296 is going to be the load, much softer feel, accurate and no case issue's. Lil' Gun was leaving some ejector marks. I'll get the target pics up in the next few days.

All in all I was very happy, I do need to inspect the barrel for any issue's, but not expecting anything.

Looking forward to loading up some more of the most accurate for some chrono testing.

Posted: 10/15/2016 8:38:08 PM EDT

[#31]

Bumpity bumpity.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Powder Coated 300 BlackOut (Page 2 of 2)

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