I am about a year along into my reloading career. Last year, starting about this time, a friend and I went halves on a Lee Loadmaster that was setup with Lee's 223 die set up. This also included the Lee Auto Disk Pro powder measure. We loaded up about 13k rounds last year with this set up. Using a variety of powders starting out, to pretty much sticking with WC 844 Powder from Hi-Tech. We met a few other reloaders at our range, and got some good deals on sharing hazmat and what knot. Things were good.

In Nov'ish, we started to switch to loading pistol. 9mm starting out. Using Commercial #5 from Hi-Tech as well. We've also used Tite-Group, Win Auto Comp, CFE Pistol as well. Using the Lee Auto Disk, we went from their double disk setup to a single disk, dropping 6.2 gr's and being very happy with the loads.

Now here's the problem. We switched back to a rifle setup for this year, and have had nothing but problems with the Auto Disk Pro. We have a complete second setup for the Loadmaster top shell plate and share the powder drop between the two, unscrewing the mount from the die and moving to the rifle plate we leave setup. Same powder, same dies, same process, as we can never get more than 150 rounds loader before the powder drop has issues.

What we are seeing is like a double charge. Once it starts, its an every 5-6 round type issue till we get frustrated and stop loading for the day. The disks we use are 82/88 , 88/88 usually for our powders and all last year had no issues with consistency. And mostly would load up 4-600 rounds in a session. Usually 2-3 nights a week after work, or until we were out of process/prepped brass. Last week, Tuesday I started my normal routine, would drop 10 in a row, dumping them back into the hopper, then drop 3 and weigh on our Hornady digital scale. 26gr. This is very consistent. Started loading, every 15-20 pulling one off the press to weigh and check powder, no issues. At 150, got a double charge.

Now what I mean by double charge, I was very careful to do an entire cycle of the press, and ensure I was not doing a half pull causing a build up of powder. Nothing was different in that 1 pull like the one before, but my case is over flowing. Pulled the previous 2 bullets. Checked for powder, no issues. Blew the press off, wiped off with a dryer sheet and started up again. Got 5 loaded, and the next had an overflowing case again. Pulled previous 2, powder levels were OK, and blowed off the press again. Happened 3 more times before I stopped.

What I did next:
Turned hopper to off, removed hopper and emptied powder.
Removed disks, checked for a leak in powder - No excessive amounts of powder on slides or on disks.
Took fresh dryer sheets and wiped out hopper, wiped disks, wiped the sliders, then took a wooden down and pushed sheet down the die.
Reassembled, and filled hopper. Pulled 10 charges, and all measured at 26gr.
Added cases and started reloading again. Got to 5 cases and got an overflowing case.

Stopped for the night.
Repeated reloading process on Thursday, and only got about 75 cases before the process started again. Repeated above steps and no change.
We've added the included spacers for using the double disk ( all last year we did not use these at all ), small disk on top, small disk on bottom, have longer bolts for the hopper and added o-rings to the brass nuts to help keep things snug.

Yesterday, switched everything out to pistol again, and loaded 400 rds of 115gr plated 9, about 200 122gr lead, and about 50 124gr HP. We had zero issues using the exact setup for the rifle, minus top plate, shell plate, and powder. It only is having issues when we start loading rifle. We have tried with H4198, 8202 XBR powders and getting the same results. Only 150 or so before we get a double charge.

Contacted Lee, and they said its static. Its not static. We have things grounded, no carpet, wiped things down with dryer sheets. And this exact same setup all last year for 13k plus rounds. So I guess whats the issue? Is it the powder drop? Are the disks getting memory on the plastic that we need to try something different? We have a good bit of extra disks that we swapped one out and didnt seem the change anything.

I love the auto charge running off the press, and keeps us moving quickly with just adding brass and bullets. I'd like to keep it with this setup, but if there is something better that runs off the press, that would be good too.
We hand prime all our cases, clean and lube the press every 3-4 weeks, and everything is running like a top except for the powder drop. Please help guru's, its a loss of a lot of powder and very frustrating. Our typical load is 55gr with mixed brass for plinking. Not looking to manually charge powder for each case.

I do not see how it is possible to have a double throw with this measure.  At rest, the cavities are under the hopper, and can only fill to volume.  When activated, the cavities travel over to the die, and discharge the contents.  The only way for more powder to fall is if the disk and cavities travel back to the hopper and re-fill, then make the trip back a second time, or if the hopper discharge itself becomes out of alignment with the cavity and fills the entire apparatus .  Not blaming you, but is there something interfering with the actuation linkage maybe causing the travel of the disks or cavities to stutter, or bounce?  I had a stupid rcbs impaler stem whack my powder measure on my turret press before, had to clock the measure differently to avoid the collision.

Yup, first thing we thought too. The Chain pulls the disks back under the hopper, and the throw of the press pulls them over the die where the brass sits. We have no idea how there is double the powder coming out. Its come to a point where we are pulling the arm so gingerly to watch each part doing its part that we are not seeing anything out of the ordinary. Swapping disks too didnt change anything. Small hole on top / small hole on bottom. New disks, used disks.

So static was the first thought, but we've looked down the die and ensured there is no powder clumped or stuck in the die. Proved by also pulling the previous 2 bullets when we get a double charge to check they are at their 26gr set level too.

We have a ghost who is seriously driving us crazy on this.

Do you have the hopper on correctly?

There is a front and back to the hopper. Is it possible that with the large size of the cavities that if you have the hopper on backwards it is adding more powder to the drop?

Hopper is on correctly. On/Off is pointed to the front. Also its set back from the hole over the die so you can see the disk slide forward. Yup checked all that. Went thru our processes again like the first time to make sure we didn't overstep something in complacency.

150 rounds sounds like about the time you would have to top off the hopper.  Maybe a correlation?

Are you using a baffle?  I made one out of the corner of a milk jug.

A double charge seems impossible, but something is doing it. Maybe once it starts the next time, video record above the drop tube to see where the extra powder is coming from. Phone would probably do it.

Didnt see the powder getting low, it was pretty full when I started to ensure I could get some actual work done.
I will need to go-pro it next time since this is really the only way I am going to solve this problem.

I use the lee pro 1000 with auto disk set up and I am absolutely baffled as to how you are throwing double charges.

As your on the down stroke the disk is moving forward to drop the powder... is the disk over traveling?

I once inserted the disk in a funky way and it caused the disk to actually over travel. I'm not sure if this would cause a double charge though.

Only other thing I can think of is that you are using 2 disks and the larger hole disk should be on the bottom I believe.

Keep us posted when and if you figure this out


Edit: check out this video that talks about using a double disk and how the smaller hole disk should be on top to avoid building a shelf that can cause double charges.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=t1OelxaGuAo

Want to take some pics of the setup for us and share them?  At rest, handle down, handle back up, etc...

When it over travels, the slider is no longer engaged in the notch on the bottom of the disk. So it should be a once out, then no longer attached to the mechanical arm linked to the chain that will pull the disks back in.

I always run the small hole on top, and in testing, flipped them with no issues for the first 5/6 until the double charge.

Yup, I need to get some pics for you guys. I knew it was going to come to that. I might head to my buddies place tomorrow and do a vid and pic just to get some more info in case Lee wants more info.
As of right now, they are sticking to static as the issue. Its not it.

when it happens next time check the previous round and see if it has the correct charge. lee might be right and you may be getting clumping due to static. the previous charge gets stuck in the drop and the new charge is droping over it . are you using a ball or stick powder?  or maybe get a auto drum so you dont need to swap powder drops

To quote OP:

"So static was the first thought, but we've looked down the die and ensured there is no powder clumped or stuck in the die. Proved by also pulling the previous 2 bullets when we get a double charge to check they are at their 26gr set level too."

I am leaning to something snagging the activation chain, or something messing with the linkage/spring .  OP, please keep us posted.  I hope you find a solution in the video.

We thought so too. Torn the hopper and connector apart. Put her back to together. Will find out here soon.
Also, we use the same hopper/die for both pistol and rifle. We are in the boat for a new set just for each type.

We already have the upper plates, shell plates, all that duplicated to make it easier to swap from rifle and pistol. Might as well do the hopper as well.

Should we stick with Lee, or look at someone else's auto powder drop?

I don't understand how you went from 13k rounds one year with no issues, to problems this year.  For what they cost, that was a good ROI, assuming you need to replace it since it is defective or worn.  I am still scratching my head on this, and I am looking forward to the video for the answer as to the cause.

OP, I think I had the same thing happen to me. Using CFE223, and the powder in the hopper was low. I really don't know how it happened, I thought I may have had some tumbler media stuck in the mouth of the case. It never happened again, and hasn't since. They only way I could see a double happening with the auto disk is if powder spilled IN FRONT of the disks, and then was pushed into the case ahead of the normal charge. Perhaps if it built up enough in the rails over each charge to finally be pushed in by the disk.

If you determine it's the activation chain, let me know and I will send you some pictures on how I solved the chain breaking using steel wire. A little trick I picked up on the interwebs. It will require pictures , which will have to wait till I get home on Fri

Best bet might just be a new dispenser setup for rifle only.

The current set up ran like 550/600 rounds on Sunday with no issues for pistol. So its not an issue in single stack setup, just the double.


We loosened the chain to ensure it was not being pulled too much back behind the hopper drop hole, putting powder in the front of the disk too. Its not traveling too far back or too far forward.
New one might just be the next test. I should have pics/vid in a day or so.

Check the o-ring thing anyway. And there is a "perfect powder baffle" on amazon for 10 bucks or so.

Sorry, one last thing.

Are you using the little side-plate things when you have the double-disks installed?

It seems like if you didn't have those in place the hopper could rock and allow larger charges to be thrown.

powder bridging or sticking in the drop tube or charging die is the only way I see it happening.   I clean mine out with brake cleaner from time to time.

We replace that rubbery thing about every 5k rounds on the press. We replaced it once we started seeing issues and have not seen it as a positive change.
Plenty of extra's of those.

All last year, we did not use those. We replaced the hopper screws for longer, added o-rings under the brass nuts, and that seems to be a better set up for us.
I did add those little wing things in our testing to see if it would help, and it did not.

Yup thats what we thought too. We get that real good with cleaner and blow everything out with an air compressor.
When this first started, I started to use dryer sheets after using cleaner down the die.

Then I would use one of those long q-tip style cleaning pads and ensure there was no residue in the collection and die.


All this stuff is good idea guys. But its all stuff we've been trying to solve this mystery. I'm about to head to his place to get some vids, pics, and report back.

Ok, here's some pics. Vids are still uploading via YouTube.

First Vid

Second Vid

3rd. This captures the double charge, but of course ,after I move the camera.

4th

Yeah watching the vids, it was pointless from a top down view. All dark. So might do another few with better light.
We actually use the Frankford reloading bench, the portable one.
Again, this has been our setup for a year, and no issues till recently. Bench has some movement when its extended higher. But again, been in use all year long.

I want to add, in the coming months, we will be moving from the garage to the indoors. Setting up a spare bedroom with hard counters for solid mounting.
His wife had to approve the setup. Lol.

Last Vid - Did another 50 or so, Total of 100 rounds. After filing up the hopper, apparently, no more doubles.Go figure.

HAHAHA, no I get it. It was not never supposed to be perm. We live a ways apart, and its a few nights a week. It will be rectified here shortly.
Adding supports though, kinda defeats the point of a portable bench though, lol.

But, I get it, it does have a lot of movement to it. I reiterate my point though, its been no issue over the entire year.
Now the only thing working on this press is 9mm loading. Its been 100% successful. The 223 though has not.

So unless the auto disk is the actual problem, but we cant see a problem, we might end up with another one just for rifle though. We consistently use the same powders so wont have to do too many changes to the disks.

First, you need to add the spacer blocks in that would have come with the double disk kit.  That may or may not be a contributor to the issue.  

The main issue I see is that the powder measure is sitting too high and the disk cavities may not empty every time.  Take the hopper off and put the bottom disk on, which should be the larger one I hope.  Run an empty case up into the press.  The hole in the disk should be centered over the drop hole in the measure base.  Yours appears to not be moving forward far enough to completely empty the disk chamber(s).  I like to set my disk so they actually travel to the front edge of the slide to ensure it empties completely.  Put the smaller disk on top and put the hopper back on.  That should take care of it.  

The reason you didn't see it when loading pistol is because the cavity is much smaller and the disk doesn't need to slide as far forward to completely empty it.

Another contributing factor may be your less than stable setup.  If you had a good solid stop at the bottom of the stroke that might shake the powder loose.

ETA:  Watched the videos again and noticed something else.  The PM moves far enough in when you only have a case under the PM but when you have one under the seating die and/or FCD it's not moving far enough.  When you adjust the PM, do it with all the stations of the press full, particularly the sizing die and the FCD.

One last thing, you probably want to go back and pull the bullets on those other ones you loaded and check the powder charges.  My guess is some are light and some heavy.  

Hope that helps.

If you decide to go with another measure for rifle, you might want to try the Lee Auto-Drum measure.  A better solution for larger charges than doing the double disk and it is easier to fine tune you charges.  It cheaper than the auto disk now too.

I agree that something is hinky with the disk movement.  It should be centered over the hole at full stroke.

Try screwing the die down a little, that should increase the movement.

A powder baffle will also help with consistency.  

Verify that the disk is on the lever in the right spot (though you probably have already).

What are the charge weights in the good rounds?   I'm wondering if it isn't dumping the full charge and the residual from 2 or 3 of those finally results in an over charge.  If I'm right, the charge weights in the first few rounds will be low, and gradually work up.

I use the same powder measure for my .223 rounds, but use a Lee Pro 1000 (I do the sizing and priming on a single stage).  I'll have to check what double disc combo I used.  I do powder in station 1, powder check in station 2, and seat in station 3.   A few things I noticed.

1)  The reset chain should be completely slack at the top of the stroke.  Looks like it might have some tension on it from time to time from the black adjustment nut on the side of your press.  

2)  Make sure the powder charge die is dropping back down to reset, which means the entire measure needs to drop too.  If that doesn't happen and it is stuck half way it could start filling the discs early, and then more or less over fill once it fully resets.  It should be such that you can't be 1/2 way in between and still open the powder drop and the hopper together.

3) Since you have 5 stations, I would add a powder check after you powder drop..  While it is obvious when you have an over charge like that, you might be able to tell when you under charge too.

Charge weights in the good rounds are all within +/- .3 gr's of powder. I got sick of pulling the previous 10 bullets when this first started (Hornady cam lock collect puller) to find no bullets were light. Which is opposite of what you would think is happening. The direct previous bullet should be light the most, one before that a little less light, and so on. Which is the over charge stuck in the powder drop somewhere in the die. But they are all fine.

1. the chain does have slack in it, however, its tied to the bottom plate in the Lee Load Master. As you pull the arm, it rides up along on the chain and could potential be preventing some full drop. Using the chain it looks like its not going completely slack, but it does have some give in it.
ShuckersFan recommended a powder check slot in the press since we have empty locations. I might run the spring kit that the Auto Disk comes with and move it to a different hole on the press.

2. We believe it is completely dropping, again ShuckersFan recommended turning the die down a bit more to test this. Worth looking into with the change to a different hole.
But again, have not seen any bullets that are under Min Load data requirements, or even more than .5 grs's for this load work up. Confusing. I believe I would be seeing a few tenths getting stuck in the drop die on each pull till its enough weight of the next charge. Used dryer sheets on a wooden stick down this die with no improvements ( thinking its static ).

3.Yeah gonna move it to the previous hole, add the spring kit, and now have a check location. Im going to add an extra LED section to the cross bar of the press. Right now, its only along the front arm where it says LEE on it. Better light for rifle.

Watching Vid #4 on this page, I can see what you are saying about the disks are appearing to not slide forward 100%. I can still see the Auto Disk base and not the full disk when the ram is all the way up. So the die needs to be turned 1/4 to 1/2 to test this.

I could mark the base with some silver marker, a line where the hold begins ( or how far the disk needs to pass over ), then mark the disk as well. To see how far it traverses over that hole to ensure a full dump.

The bullets have been pulled and weighed. Not seeing any change in weights. Within +/- .3 gr's, and nothing under Min Load Data weights.
We were thinking the same thing, previous bullets would have a variance.

I can see the hopper lifting UP off the discs as it cycles. That is not good. That will allow a larger volume of powder to sit on top of the disk and possibly drop randomly.
I bet if you had all the proper parts for the double disc kit installed your problem would go away.
It is imperative that the hopper is tight against the base, which is impossible in your case because you don't have the double disk walls installed.

I am not a fan of swapping measures between rifle and pistol, so I got an auto drum for my rifle setup and use the auto disk for pistol with a micro charge bar.
The setup works flawless. I have now run about 3000 .223 rounds through my LM without a single hiccup using the auto drum.
I have also run about 5000 rounds of 9mm through it this year without any issues, aside from a couple crimped cases that slipped through my QC.

Get the proper double disk parts installed, or better yet, get an auto drum for your rifle loading and keep the auto disk for pistol.

Not to be rude, but re-read my OP. The disks and hopper are tight using o-rings on the brass nuts.
We have tested this setup for over 13k .223 loads without the double disk wings. Just to be sure though, we did add the wings back in, the hopper actually sits on the double disk looser than without them. We also saw no difference in the double charge. It kept happening with or without the wings.


When we changed parts to pistol loading, it was something we thought about keeping in one form. Only 1 hopper for rifle and one for pistol. We have purchased the Auto Drum to use solely with Rifle now.
But until it arrives, we are still investigating the issue. I think it is no enough travel on the disks to completely empty the disks. Add in the movement on the stand and we have the reasoning. Why now, and not an any point in all last year will have to be that mystery.

I saw that you said that in the OP, but in video #2 I can clearly the hopper lifting up, which means the powder charge would vary.
Interesting that it still happened with the wings.
I have heard of people custom fitting the wings so the fit is a little tighter.
Is the wiper in good condition?
I have been running a LM with auto disk since the early 1990's and have never seen this issue.

Either way, you're gonna love the auto drum. It's great to setup and functions flawless.
Make sure you look into removing the safety check on it and decide if that is something you want to do or not.
I initially ran mine with the chain, then removed it altogether. It's great to not have to worry about the chain getting in the way.

On the full downstroke, make sure your "disk holes" are dead nuts center over the powder drop.

Remove powder hopper.  Take an empty case and do a  mock powder drop. Leave it on the up stroke .

Using a flashlight, look and see if the disk hole is dead center over the powder drop die. Repeat this process a few times.

If it's not , you need to adjust your powder drop down a little more.

I think your powder drop may have been knocked out of whack. Watched again, I'm gonna day your disk isn't fully going forward on every stroke. You need to adjust the powder drop die. I think this will solve your issue.

Yup see what you are saying.

Swiper is in fairly good condition. Less than 4k on it. We tested with a brand new one and same result.

Auto drum is enroute though, and hopefully cures this issue. Just cant believe going all year long with no issues and now this crap.

This is really the only we have not worked on. Yet. I'm headed back over this weekend and this is going to be the first thing we are going to try. Not sure how it would come loose or bumped with how we take the top turret off, but things happen, and did happen for sure.

Then move the drop to one previous slot for a powder see slot. And run some rounds.
You test is pretty clean and easy to see the results.

Keep in mind ,  different trimmed to length brass can cause it to not go dead center. It is after all "tuned" to case length. Also, your bench flexing may also be creating the disk from not fully engaging each stroke.

I've found that the more smooth the stroke, the less hiccups on my pro 1000

If this fails, thrown it out and get another. They are cheap enough.

Your chain looks to be too tight and those discs don't seem to be cycling back and forth properly. I would use the double disc wings and dump the rubber o rings on the long screws with brass nuts. Don't reef down those brass nuts too tight or have them too loose. Check to make sure that arm on the hopper that the chain is attached to is not too tight and cycles all the way up and down.

Never seen that problem before but the new Lee powder drum setup will solve all your problems.

Ran a few tests today. Same results after the changes recommended so far. Sad, but anxiously waiting the Auto Drum.

1. Removed the hopper, inserted the case, pulled the arm, and with the ram all the way in its highest position, the disks are centered over the hole and can look down the entire length of the die and into the bottom of the case. There are no variations or movements in the case from the ram at the bottom vs at the top.

2. The case is engaging the expander die and doing an entire lift of the arm that slides the disks forward (while the hopper is off ). See step 1.
With the wings added ( as per suggestion ), and the hopper re-installed, same result. Disk moves completely forward over the hole, and no resistance to pull back down the ram.
The chain is running through the hole on the ram, and has plenty of slack both up and down the pull process.

3. With no O-RIngs removed, and just the wings, the hopper is actually sitting slightly loose on the disks. Even with rubber swiper on the bottom of the  hopper, there is a sense of too much movement.
We pulled 23 rounds before getting another double charge. Replaced swiper, topped off the hopper, cleaned off the indexing arm, lubed, and re-tested. Within 6 rounds, same issue with an other double charge.

4. Removed the wings, left the new swiper, re-added the O-Rings, ran the press at a super slow pace, added some sad bags to the base of the stand, and almost zero movement on the press/stand, and only got 16 rounds before the double charge. We watched the ram come up, lift the expander die arm, pulled the disks forward and see the powder start to drop and completely empty as the ram approaches top dead center.
Still only got 16 rounds.

We weigh all 15 rounds and were at our normal 26 gr charge of powder. Zero residual in the die. We are also not seeing any extra powder after the swiper and disk are back at normal with the ram down. Or after removing the disks on the platform and still no powder.

We are at a complete mystery, and frustrated at lost powder. Cannot wait till the Auto Drum arrives and we get this dialed in.

 
This.  I really like the Auto Drum and have since retired my Pro Auto Disc.  I really like the fact that I know the entire charge drops every time.  I was always nervous with the disc measure that I would get partial drops.