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Posted: 2/2/2016 9:56:04 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
More than most likely you're either scraping the coating off of the bullet when your seating it. Or when the bullets are feeding, etc. No coating, no protection. OOOOOOOOOOOOORRRRRRRRRRR You're using the wrong expander and the bullets are getting swaged down in diameter that's too small for your bore and the bullets just can't expand enough to seal the bbl. I've shot pc'd/coated bullets in a 308 and have played with different sizes .308/.309/.310/.311. I've never had a problem with leading and I've shot loads that ranged from 12,00psi to 50,000+psi with speeds from 1000fps to heavy 230gr bullets doing 2300+fps. With all the different loads/sizes/bullets/testing I've never had any leading. But the only to things that stayed the same through out everything was the use of either: A british 303 (.310) expander ball when fl sizing the brass for the larger .310/.311 bullets. The use of a lee universal flaring die. That opens the mouth of the case enough so that there is no scraping of the sides of the coated bullets when they are seated. I've shot over 600# of cast/coated bullets now in anything from a 38spl to a 308. I can only think of 2 times that I've had any leading issues. 1 time was when I wasn't flaring the case mouths enough and I was scraping the coating off of the bullets. The other was when I tried to use a standard 9mm expander with pc'd bullets sized to .356. Had real bad leading so I pulled a couple of loaded rounds and measured the bullets. Darn cases swaged the base of the bullets down to .353. Reloading dies are setup for jacketed bullets, in your case .308. They also allow for neck tension to hold the bullets in place. Larger than normal diameter lead/coated/soft bullets get swaged down and bad things happen. You might want to load up 9 or 10 dummy rounds and then pull them to take a ood look at what's going on. If there's no scraping or the bullets aren't being swaged down that only leaves option #3. Option #3 ='s something mechanical like being scrapped while feeding or your bbl looks like a wood rasp, etc. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Since this has turned into mostly a PC discussion, I figure I can ask this. I am using some commercially available PC bullets in my 300 BLK AR. Supersonic. I load them to a speed as recommended by the bullet mfg. I am getting a bunch of lead on the tail of my bolt and on the outside of my gas tube where it enters the gas key. The bolt isn't too bad to clean, the gas tube on the other hand.... A friend said to expect some vaporized lead, but that seems like a bit much. And I know I must be breathing it in with every shot. Does this seem normal? More than most likely you're either scraping the coating off of the bullet when your seating it. Or when the bullets are feeding, etc. No coating, no protection. OOOOOOOOOOOOORRRRRRRRRRR You're using the wrong expander and the bullets are getting swaged down in diameter that's too small for your bore and the bullets just can't expand enough to seal the bbl. I've shot pc'd/coated bullets in a 308 and have played with different sizes .308/.309/.310/.311. I've never had a problem with leading and I've shot loads that ranged from 12,00psi to 50,000+psi with speeds from 1000fps to heavy 230gr bullets doing 2300+fps. With all the different loads/sizes/bullets/testing I've never had any leading. But the only to things that stayed the same through out everything was the use of either: A british 303 (.310) expander ball when fl sizing the brass for the larger .310/.311 bullets. The use of a lee universal flaring die. That opens the mouth of the case enough so that there is no scraping of the sides of the coated bullets when they are seated. I've shot over 600# of cast/coated bullets now in anything from a 38spl to a 308. I can only think of 2 times that I've had any leading issues. 1 time was when I wasn't flaring the case mouths enough and I was scraping the coating off of the bullets. The other was when I tried to use a standard 9mm expander with pc'd bullets sized to .356. Had real bad leading so I pulled a couple of loaded rounds and measured the bullets. Darn cases swaged the base of the bullets down to .353. Reloading dies are setup for jacketed bullets, in your case .308. They also allow for neck tension to hold the bullets in place. Larger than normal diameter lead/coated/soft bullets get swaged down and bad things happen. You might want to load up 9 or 10 dummy rounds and then pull them to take a ood look at what's going on. If there's no scraping or the bullets aren't being swaged down that only leaves option #3. Option #3 ='s something mechanical like being scrapped while feeding or your bbl looks like a wood rasp, etc. I have pulled numerous bullets to check for coating being abraded during seating and none of them had shown any scraping of the coating. I did not measure to see if they were being swaged to a smaller diameter. I will check that today. Makes sense. Hope it is something that simple. I have no scraping during feeding. I have fed a large number of rounds checking for just that. In fact it was the source of my heavy leading early on when the large meplat bullets were running across the sharp edges of the m4 extension. With an extension change that problem is gone. I will measure today. ETA: I measured pulled bullets and they were still at .309 and were not scarred. I guess I better slug the bore and see what I get there. Any other suggestions? |
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Posted: 2/2/2016 12:50:26 PM EDT
[#2]
I notice there is no crimp groove on the Blue Bullets and this concerns me a bit on .38/.357 loads. Are any of you having to crimp extra heavy to prevent bullet set back or to prevent having a bullet become unseated in a revolver chamber?
I just had a moly coated bullet pull out in my revolver chamber yesterday (no crimp groove). I don't know if I somehow missed a crimp or if I need to crimp heavier. |
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Posted: 2/2/2016 2:22:15 PM EDT
[#3]
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Posted: 2/2/2016 4:56:28 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
More than most likely you're either scraping the coating off of the bullet when your seating it. Or when the bullets are feeding, etc. No coating, no protection. OOOOOOOOOOOOORRRRRRRRRRR You're using the wrong expander and the bullets are getting swaged down in diameter that's too small for your bore and the bullets just can't expand enough to seal the bbl. I've shot pc'd/coated bullets in a 308 and have played with different sizes .308/.309/.310/.311. I've never had a problem with leading and I've shot loads that ranged from 12,00psi to 50,000+psi with speeds from 1000fps to heavy 230gr bullets doing 2300+fps. With all the different loads/sizes/bullets/testing I've never had any leading. But the only to things that stayed the same through out everything was the use of either: A british 303 (.310) expander ball when fl sizing the brass for the larger .310/.311 bullets. The use of a lee universal flaring die. That opens the mouth of the case enough so that there is no scraping of the sides of the coated bullets when they are seated. I've shot over 600# of cast/coated bullets now in anything from a 38spl to a 308. I can only think of 2 times that I've had any leading issues. 1 time was when I wasn't flaring the case mouths enough and I was scraping the coating off of the bullets. The other was when I tried to use a standard 9mm expander with pc'd bullets sized to .356. Had real bad leading so I pulled a couple of loaded rounds and measured the bullets. Darn cases swaged the base of the bullets down to .353. Reloading dies are setup for jacketed bullets, in your case .308. They also allow for neck tension to hold the bullets in place. Larger than normal diameter lead/coated/soft bullets get swaged down and bad things happen. You might want to load up 9 or 10 dummy rounds and then pull them to take a ood look at what's going on. If there's no scraping or the bullets aren't being swaged down that only leaves option #3. Option #3 ='s something mechanical like being scrapped while feeding or your bbl looks like a wood rasp, etc. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Since this has turned into mostly a PC discussion, I figure I can ask this. I am using some commercially available PC bullets in my 300 BLK AR. Supersonic. I load them to a speed as recommended by the bullet mfg. I am getting a bunch of lead on the tail of my bolt and on the outside of my gas tube where it enters the gas key. The bolt isn't too bad to clean, the gas tube on the other hand.... A friend said to expect some vaporized lead, but that seems like a bit much. And I know I must be breathing it in with every shot. Does this seem normal? More than most likely you're either scraping the coating off of the bullet when your seating it. Or when the bullets are feeding, etc. No coating, no protection. OOOOOOOOOOOOORRRRRRRRRRR You're using the wrong expander and the bullets are getting swaged down in diameter that's too small for your bore and the bullets just can't expand enough to seal the bbl. I've shot pc'd/coated bullets in a 308 and have played with different sizes .308/.309/.310/.311. I've never had a problem with leading and I've shot loads that ranged from 12,00psi to 50,000+psi with speeds from 1000fps to heavy 230gr bullets doing 2300+fps. With all the different loads/sizes/bullets/testing I've never had any leading. But the only to things that stayed the same through out everything was the use of either: A british 303 (.310) expander ball when fl sizing the brass for the larger .310/.311 bullets. The use of a lee universal flaring die. That opens the mouth of the case enough so that there is no scraping of the sides of the coated bullets when they are seated. I've shot over 600# of cast/coated bullets now in anything from a 38spl to a 308. I can only think of 2 times that I've had any leading issues. 1 time was when I wasn't flaring the case mouths enough and I was scraping the coating off of the bullets. The other was when I tried to use a standard 9mm expander with pc'd bullets sized to .356. Had real bad leading so I pulled a couple of loaded rounds and measured the bullets. Darn cases swaged the base of the bullets down to .353. Reloading dies are setup for jacketed bullets, in your case .308. They also allow for neck tension to hold the bullets in place. Larger than normal diameter lead/coated/soft bullets get swaged down and bad things happen. You might want to load up 9 or 10 dummy rounds and then pull them to take a ood look at what's going on. If there's no scraping or the bullets aren't being swaged down that only leaves option #3. Option #3 ='s something mechanical like being scrapped while feeding or your bbl looks like a wood rasp, etc. Thanks for the ideas. I am using the Lee expander. I have seated and pulled enough to know for sure that the flaring operation isn't the problem. I haven't checked that it isn't being swaged, but my overall neck diameter indicates that it isn't. I am not getting lead buildup in the barrel, just through the gas system. I also get a little buildup on the muzzle brake. ETA: I am using .309 bullets |
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Posted: 2/2/2016 5:36:06 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ok so I have seen a lot of pics of powder coated bullets,read a lot of suggestions and also seen a few pics of bullets that have been fired and recovered,but mostly rifle bullets.Anyone here recovered any pistol bullets to determine just how well the pc stays on after traveling thru the rifling? If you have Hi-tek and/or pc bullets,I would like to see and/hear the results of how well the coating stays on after being fired and/or impacted on a target.How much,if any,of the powder coat stays in the barrel? I've picked up shot coated bullets from the berm to be smelted back down and turned back into new cast bullets. I find it interesting that you're interested in pistol bullets pc staying on when there's been pic's of rifle bullets doing 20000fps+ and surviving 50,000psi+. That's a little hotter than those 16,000psi 900fps 38spl loads. Well anyway dug some pistol bullet out of the scrap pile, The top left are 44cals shot in a 44spl (pink pointed bullet) at 13,000psi 900fps. The others are 1200fps hp's and a 1400fps swc shot in 44mags. The top right is 1050fps & 1200fps 125gr hp's shot in different 9mm pistols. The bottom right is 1200fps swc's and 1300fps 110gr wc's shot in 357's. And the bottom right is 148gr wc's shot in 38spl's doing 800fps and a red 150gr hollow based flat round nosed bullet doing around 700fps shot out of a 9mm contender barrel. The only time coating comes off a bullet is when it strikes something hard. There's 14 different bullets fired out of 7 different pistols doing 700fps to 1400fps with loads ranging from 8,00psi to 30,000+psi.  " />
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Posted: 2/2/2016 5:48:23 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thanks for the ideas. I am using the Lee expander. I have seated and pulled enough to know for sure that the flaring operation isn't the problem. I haven't checked that it isn't being swaged, but my overall neck diameter indicates that it isn't. I am not getting lead buildup in the barrel, just through the gas system. I also get a little buildup on the muzzle brake. ETA: I am using .309 bullets Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Since this has turned into mostly a PC discussion, I figure I can ask this. I am using some commercially available PC bullets in my 300 BLK AR. Supersonic. I load them to a speed as recommended by the bullet mfg. I am getting a bunch of lead on the tail of my bolt and on the outside of my gas tube where it enters the gas key. The bolt isn't too bad to clean, the gas tube on the other hand.... A friend said to expect some vaporized lead, but that seems like a bit much. And I know I must be breathing it in with every shot. Does this seem normal? More than most likely you're either scraping the coating off of the bullet when your seating it. Or when the bullets are feeding, etc. No coating, no protection. OOOOOOOOOOOOORRRRRRRRRRR You're using the wrong expander and the bullets are getting swaged down in diameter that's too small for your bore and the bullets just can't expand enough to seal the bbl. I've shot pc'd/coated bullets in a 308 and have played with different sizes .308/.309/.310/.311. I've never had a problem with leading and I've shot loads that ranged from 12,00psi to 50,000+psi with speeds from 1000fps to heavy 230gr bullets doing 2300+fps. With all the different loads/sizes/bullets/testing I've never had any leading. But the only to things that stayed the same through out everything was the use of either: A british 303 (.310) expander ball when fl sizing the brass for the larger .310/.311 bullets. The use of a lee universal flaring die. That opens the mouth of the case enough so that there is no scraping of the sides of the coated bullets when they are seated. I've shot over 600# of cast/coated bullets now in anything from a 38spl to a 308. I can only think of 2 times that I've had any leading issues. 1 time was when I wasn't flaring the case mouths enough and I was scraping the coating off of the bullets. The other was when I tried to use a standard 9mm expander with pc'd bullets sized to .356. Had real bad leading so I pulled a couple of loaded rounds and measured the bullets. Darn cases swaged the base of the bullets down to .353. Reloading dies are setup for jacketed bullets, in your case .308. They also allow for neck tension to hold the bullets in place. Larger than normal diameter lead/coated/soft bullets get swaged down and bad things happen. You might want to load up 9 or 10 dummy rounds and then pull them to take a ood look at what's going on. If there's no scraping or the bullets aren't being swaged down that only leaves option #3. Option #3 ='s something mechanical like being scrapped while feeding or your bbl looks like a wood rasp, etc. Thanks for the ideas. I am using the Lee expander. I have seated and pulled enough to know for sure that the flaring operation isn't the problem. I haven't checked that it isn't being swaged, but my overall neck diameter indicates that it isn't. I am not getting lead buildup in the barrel, just through the gas system. I also get a little buildup on the muzzle brake. ETA: I am using .309 bullets Odd. The only thing I shoot pc'd bullets in that have muzzle breaks is these 357's.  " />
They get a steady diet of 1350+fps 33,000+psi loads and I don't have any build-up of lead in the muzzle breaks on them. I'm using power pistol for the powder and only run 400 to 500rounds between them in a range session. Perhaps the powder your using is a little too hot and is flaming the base of the bullets???? Powders like titegroup and lilgun tend to be hard on coated bullets. |
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Posted: 2/6/2016 9:52:45 PM EDT
[#7]
Have any of you guys ever checked your bullets after coating and curing the powder to see how much they have grown? Another question is are you guys really sure that they should be resized before firing? I wonder this because it seems that the Bhn changes with baking to cure the powder,so I am wondering if you couldn't leave it as is,as long as you rework your load to make sure you aren't overpressure,etc,provided that the bullet isn't hugely bigger than the bore diameter.Please share your thoughts on this,as this pc'ing is new to me.
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Posted: 2/6/2016 11:22:01 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I notice there is no crimp groove on the Blue Bullets and this concerns me a bit on .38/.357 loads. Are any of you having to crimp extra heavy to .... I like blue bullets in 40/180,...but I want crimp grooves on my magnum revolver bullets. MBC and bayou . . . 
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Posted: 2/6/2016 11:38:34 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Have any of you guys ever checked your bullets after coating and curing the powder to see how much they have grown? Another question is are you guys really sure that they should be resized before firing? I wonder this because it seems that the Bhn changes with baking to cure the powder,so I am wondering if you couldn't leave it as is,as long as you rework your load to make sure you aren't overpressure,etc,provided that the bullet isn't hugely bigger than the bore diameter.Please share your thoughts on this,as this pc'ing is new to me. I don't think the bhn changes enough to make much difference. You know what diameter you want. If you feel they are good to go without re-sizing then don't. I can't honestly say that I've ever seen more than .002" increase in diameter and most of the time it's only a little more than .001" The only bullets I have shot unsized "after" powder coating were sized before powder coating. This was done partly as an experiment and out of necessity. The bullets "drop" at around .3125" and I was reluctant to PC them then size them down to .311" (The nearest size die I have) Before starting to PC I would shoot these unsized and lubed. So I sized the bullets .311" then applied the PC then loaded them. The experiment was a success. They are actually more accurate than before when I shot them lubed but unsized. I think the sizing helped to make them more concentric then the PC brought the OD back up to fit the bore. These are sub-sonic from a Finn M39 7.62x54R. (well actually 3, M39s) :) Motor |
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Posted: 2/7/2016 2:05:40 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This is my first time loading PC bullets. Ordered online from a link I got from the "Where to find thread" First thing I loaded was some 115g "Reds" for the GF's Rossi M92 in 357 (they weighed in at 112g-114g, not very consistent but they were very cheap). These are 38 special brass I trimmed to Spec (I see it only really needs to be done once) and loaded up with unique. GF wants some "mouse fart" loads. So I started pretty low. you can see my load data. They are 9mm bullets but they are 358 diameter, so they are way longer than a 38 special, but they feed great in a 357 lever gun! Above that was the first load work up I did, some 110g Hornady's over some H110. Those things are screaming! http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/ad39/boman250/Mobile%20Uploads/20160206_191156.jpg Next was for the 45 acp. Some 200g "Greens". Turns out these are around 204g-207g. So, I looked in the books and online and found a huge difference in data. Again, I started low and worked up. I wrote the load on the bottom of the box. The first 4 from the left are loads for TightWad. The next 6 are Unique. http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/ad39/boman250/Mobile%20Uploads/20160206_191121.jpg Then, I did one for HP-38. Took pics of my load data for this one, it was very broad. http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/ad39/boman250/Mobile%20Uploads/20160206_200812.jpg http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/ad39/boman250/Mobile%20Uploads/20160206_200823.jpg Had a few hang ups. I have never seen a small primer 45 acp shell in the 6 years I have been reloading the caliber. Today, I found one. Then as I went to replace the evil thing, I happened on my second encounter. Weird that it would be 2 in a row. I only encountered 1 more after that. Thank god. The demons. http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/ad39/boman250/Mobile%20Uploads/20160206_121924.jpg And mostly, I posted all these pics because PC bullets seem really cool and I can't wait to shoot them tomorrow, but also, because I know DryFlash hates plastic shell holders. And that is all I have.  .I'll report my findings tomorrow. I don't hate them, just feel sorry for those who do use them.  |
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Posted: 2/7/2016 3:19:45 PM EDT
[#12]
Ran some hot (H110) 45Colt and (IMR4227) 44-40 loads today with coated bullets both in Rossi levers. Great accuracy and no leading. I have been debating buying a gas check mold for 45colt but the barrel was fairly clean. The IMR 4227 is a dirty powder in that round. My glasses and barrel had gunk on em. Not from coating, looked like powder fouling. Cleaning now. No sign of lead. Big fan of powder coating.
Now I am re-thinking my plan to buy a 357 mold with gas check. Any reason that round would be different than 45LC in terms of leading with a powder coated bullet? plan to run it hot with 300-MP. |
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Posted: 2/7/2016 5:05:55 PM EDT
[#13]
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Posted: 2/7/2016 9:17:14 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
<a href="http://s250.photobucket.com/user/dryflash3/media/Powder%20Coat/P1010937_zps8wytjsi0.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg272/dryflash3/Powder%20Coat/P1010937_zps8wytjsi0.jpg</a> I went with Lee's 160 gr mold with a plain base as their 158 gr SWC uses a gas check. The 200 gr Lee mold has a gas check, no choice there. Haven't shot these bullets yet. Cool. I am going to get that 200grain one to try on 38S&W... mouse fart load. Don't get the greatest accuracy with my WWII pistol so probably won't bother with the gas check. Just fun to shoot and hard to find boolits for it. Will probably try that 160gr mold for magnum. Not worth wasting gas checks if I don't need. Cheers! |
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Posted: 2/7/2016 10:08:04 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't think the bhn changes enough to make much difference. You know what diameter you want. If you feel they are good to go without re-sizing then don't. I can't honestly say that I've ever seen more than .002" increase in diameter and most of the time it's only a little more than .001" The only bullets I have shot unsized "after" powder coating were sized before powder coating. This was done partly as an experiment and out of necessity. The bullets "drop" at around .3125" and I was reluctant to PC them then size them down to .311" (The nearest size die I have) Before starting to PC I would shoot these unsized and lubed. So I sized the bullets .311" then applied the PC then loaded them. The experiment was a success. They are actually more accurate than before when I shot them lubed but unsized. I think the sizing helped to make them more concentric then the PC brought the OD back up to fit the bore. These are sub-sonic from a Finn M39 7.62x54R. (well actually 3, M39s) :) Motor Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Have any of you guys ever checked your bullets after coating and curing the powder to see how much they have grown? Another question is are you guys really sure that they should be resized before firing? I wonder this because it seems that the Bhn changes with baking to cure the powder,so I am wondering if you couldn't leave it as is,as long as you rework your load to make sure you aren't overpressure,etc,provided that the bullet isn't hugely bigger than the bore diameter.Please share your thoughts on this,as this pc'ing is new to me. I don't think the bhn changes enough to make much difference. You know what diameter you want. If you feel they are good to go without re-sizing then don't. I can't honestly say that I've ever seen more than .002" increase in diameter and most of the time it's only a little more than .001" The only bullets I have shot unsized "after" powder coating were sized before powder coating. This was done partly as an experiment and out of necessity. The bullets "drop" at around .3125" and I was reluctant to PC them then size them down to .311" (The nearest size die I have) Before starting to PC I would shoot these unsized and lubed. So I sized the bullets .311" then applied the PC then loaded them. The experiment was a success. They are actually more accurate than before when I shot them lubed but unsized. I think the sizing helped to make them more concentric then the PC brought the OD back up to fit the bore. These are sub-sonic from a Finn M39 7.62x54R. (well actually 3, M39s) :) Motor This is what I was referring to.If the bullet has been sized before pc'ing,I was wondering if anyone had loaded and fired them without resizing after coating them, |
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Posted: 2/7/2016 11:43:43 PM EDT
[#16]
You decide if you need to size by measuring the bullet diameter with your caliper.
Nothing written in stone, as molds and alloys vary and so will the diameter. If I have a sized PC bullet that has a smaller diameter than I want, I would PC it again as this will add .002 to the diameter with my process. How much the diameter will increase will depend on you PC process. So use your caliper to see what your bullets need to get the diameter you want. |
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Posted: 2/8/2016 9:05:14 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You decide if you need to size by measuring the bullet diameter with your caliper. Nothing written in stone, as molds and alloys vary and so will the diameter. If I have a sized PC bullet that has a smaller diameter than I want, I would PC it again as this will add .002 to the diameter with my process. How much the diameter will increase will depend on you PC process. So use your caliper to see what your bullets need to get the diameter you want. Thanks dryflash3,that is somewhat part of the answer I was looking for.Like you said"Nothing written in stone". |
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