What are your thoughts about when a gas check becomes required (with PC)? For example, could I run these 44cal PC bullets at 44mag velocities?

Thanks. No gas check on this mold. I had been eyeying a different mold for my 45 Colt with gas check for Ruger loads. Wondering if I can get away with using a PC non-gas check 45 colt mold for Ruger velocities. Guess it wont hurt to try..

I've been shooting them in my 10mm and .45 with great results. Harbor freight red using the shake and bake method.

It actually seems the bigger bore pistol calibers are eaiser to push the velocity envelope with using PC. This is without using a gas check.

I have some commercial hard cast bullets I bought probably 20 years or more ago that are around 18bhn. I actually have to shoot these with mid range magnum loads to keep them from leading my 41 magnum. They simply won't obsturate with light loads.

If you were take a hard cast bullet and powder coat it I would bet you could load them pretty warm and not have any problems.

I shoot 2 different bullets that are designed for gas checks without using gas checks on them. One is the 160gr 2R TL Lee. When I load these sub-sonic I don't gas check them.

The other is the .501" Lee 440gr. I use this in 500 Smith&Wesson magnum. I don't use gas checks on these at all and the accuracy is nothing but amazing.

The hottest load to date is around 1450f/s. This is with a 12bhn (right after cast and water quenched) Harbor Freight Red PC no gas check.

I have some of these that are cast very hard. Maybe around 25bhn or more. I'm thinking about doing a test with them this spring just to see how hard they can be pushed without gas checks. The only problem may be finding someone who is willing to shoot them. I shot the Cor-Bon 440s. They are not much fun.

Motor

Perhaps I could put a couple of things out there that I found in my testing/shooting/using pc'd bullets.

Gas checks:
It actually depends more on the bullet design and the pressures that are going to be exerted on the bullet. Velocities are meaningless.
I use gc's on these bullets because the bullet has small thin drive bands. They hold up with low pressure loads but have shotgun pattern groups when the pressures exceed the alloy/thin drive bands limits.
" />

These 30cal rifle bullets have a long thick drive band and have no problem doing 1700fps in a plinking load.
" />
I like to put my gc's on after I pc the bullets. I'll pc the bullets and then size them & add the gc when I'm sizing them. I also like to GLUE the gc's on with super glue while I'm at it. they never come off.

Velocity vs pressure:
Velocity means little to pc'd bullets, in my initial testing I used a 30cal/308 and several different bullet designs. I wanted to test/look for bullet failures from either elasticity issues or more importantly, bullet base issues. Recovered bullets have stories to tell.
" />

Those bullets pictured above did not have gc's on them and the bases looked good on every bullet I recovered. The 2300fps bullet is a lee 230gr blackout bullet that has a boattail design & that bullet was shot with a 50,000+psi load. Elasticity is important when dealing with lead bullets and pc'd bullets are no different. You want a bullet that will be able to flow/twist/bend with the pressures exerted on it along with the mechanical forces that affect the bullet. Types of mechanical pressures ='s when a long rifle bullet enters the throat and the nose of the bullet starts twisting in the lands/grooves and the base of the bullet is still being push strait in the freebore area of the chamber. Or when the bullet hits the forcing cone of a revolver along with the throat areas of semi-auto pistols. A bullet has to have a certain amount of flow or they will not obturate, skidding will occure where the front of the bullet meets the riflings and they will fracture.

Bhn and pc'd bullets:
This actually goes along with a bullets elasticity and obturation. The pc'ing process itself anneals the lead alloy making it softer. I've swaged my own bullets for a couple of decades now and have used the same process to soften lead cores for swaging as is used to make pc'd bullets. Namely heating the cores at 400* for 15 minutes, that's the same temp and time I use to pc bullets. It was easier to cast cores for jacketed bullets that were an alloy, better fillout/more consistent. Pure lead doesn't cast even cores, rounded corners/bases are normal (need tin for fillout) so the pure lead ccores have to be run thru a bleed die to make uniform cores. When I make plinking bullets I'd simply cast cores with an alloy that gave excellent fillout and then just annealed them and used them. It saved a time consuming step in the bullet swaging/making process. Anyway, pc'ing bullets changes the bhn of the base alloy which is a good thing. The end result is a bullet that is extremely elastic and obturates better under a wider verity of uses applications. A good example of this is with the 9mm's I load for, 9mm bbl's are all over the map, mine are no different (.355/.356/.358). Right now I'm sizing them all to .356. The taurus has no problem shooting .356 bullets as long as they are high pressure loads, the bbl slugged .358.
" />

I'm going to start sizing all the 9mm bullets to .358. so that I can use the same bullets in the 9mm/38spl/357's. The annealed/pc'd bullets are soft enough to be able to run the oversized in tight bbl's. My tightest 9mm bbl (.355 contender bbl) has no problem running .358pc'd bullets in it & my springfield ro eats them like candy. Traditional cast/lubed/hard cast bullets would be struggling to do things like this. But pc'd bullets are breaking the chains that have held reloaders back for decades. An excellent example, 2 of my favorite bullets. A h&g #41 110gr wc (left/green) and a h&g #225 protxbore bullet they call herbie also 110gr (red/right). The #41 makes bugholes in paper with 1200fps 357 loads and the herbie can either be loaded as a swc or be turned around and be loaded as a button nosed wc that has a boattail.

" />

I have 20+ molds for the 9mm/38spl/357 along with 9 different firearms that shoot those calibers and pc'd bullets allow me to use 1 size in bullets for everything. I've ran/shot/tested pc'd bullets that were from .002 undersized to .003 oversized and never had a problem. This could never be done with traditional cast/lubed bullets.

I've showed this picture before, it's a swaged/bumped 230gr lee blackout bullet.
" />

I used to size all my cast bullets for the 30cal's to .311 for the .308 bores. With pc'd bullets I have shot/tested them from .308 to .311, they all obturated at low and high pressures and there was no tumbling. What does all this mean??? I no longer am bound with .311 bullets that are rock hard to be able to withstand high pressures. Now I can actually use bullets that are the correct size for the freebore and throat of the firearm being used. Hense the bullet pictured above, it has a .3095 base that 1/2 the gc hangs out the bottom of the 308 case. Then it tapers down to .309 (arrow), that is .001 smaller than the freebore and when the bullet is seated that line/arrow part of the bullet sits at the end of the freebore wher the tapered throat begins. Then the nose of the bullet tapers down matching the throat of the bore allowing the lands to fully/evenly grab the nose of the bullet. A crude drawing of the bullet.

" />

A close-up of the tapered nose of the bullet. Top, a bullet as cast with an oal that sets bullets nose the whole length of the throat of a typical 308 chamber/throat (1 1/2*). I cut the bum die so that the same bullet when seated the same will take full advantage of the lands in the throat of the chamber (3/4* taper). The bottom bullet's nose now has twice the hold/stability as a traditional cast bullet and the rifling marks have engraved the nose of the bumped/bottom bullet twice as much/long. That's the 308 to .302 nose.
" />

That's a 230gr 308 bullet that's now bumped to mirror the freebore/throat of my bbl for an exact fit that can withstand 50,000psi. This years testing will be what powder???

Anyway, I know all of this is a little off track but it shows that pc'd bullets are not bound by the rules traditional lubed/cast bullets have to follow. I can take the same pc'd bullet/alloy and us it in 30,000+ psi loads (taurus pictured above) or use it in a 7,000+psi hollow base bullet load to play around with @ the 50yd line.
" />

Try using the same allow/same sized bullets with traditional cast/lubed bullets for loads in the same caliber that very 23,000psi with bbl's that are .003 in difference. You've just not going to use the same alloy for a hb bullet that you use for full house 9mm bullets with traditional cast/lubed bullets. Pc'd bullets/alloys, every day every range session.

I've been casting my own bullets for decades (1985) and when I used to find a cast bullet/size/alloy/load that was excellent. I'd treat it like I just found gold!!!! These pc'd bullets are ssssooooooo forgiving they just do away with the fit/pressure/lube issues that I've had in the past with the traditional cast bullets. Keep in mind that I've owned this pistol, a beater 629 s&w 44mag, for 8 or 9 years now (??), Along with the bullet molds from a couple of yeas to 20+ years. When I test loads I do ladder tests with the same bullet powder, doing this would give me an idea of how a alloy/bullet size would act with different pressures. Fast burning powder act differently than slow burning powders, smack vs push. Then you throw in this size is only good to this pressure with that alloy, yada-yada-yada. With traditional cast bullets it was get the combo right and you got a good load. Now I tested all of these bullets and powders already in this 629 with traditional cast/lubed bullets and came up with a couple (2) keepers. I started pc'ing bullets 2 years ago and decided to re-test the same pistol/bullets/powders. I was looking for a plinking load that would hold 1 1/2" (minute of golg ball/10-ring on nra 25yd target/can killer) groups @ 25yds. It didn't take long to find a couple loads (13 of them) that met those standard.

" />

Same firearm, same shooter, same bullets, same powders, same reloading dies, etc. The only difference was traditional cast vs pc'd bullets, and the pc'd bullets smoked the traditional cast bullets,  2 loads vs 13 loads is huge!!!!

Why the huge difference???? I believe it's because the pc'd bullets obturate better for 1 thing. It test after test with the same firearm/load/chronograph/same test less than 5 minutes apart, the pc'd bullets have always had higher velocities than the traditional cast/lubed bullets. That tells me they seal the bore better. I did these tests burning up my old stock of cast bullets I had and I probably tested 25/30 different bullets in 7 different calibers with 20+ different firearms.

The other thing I believe is making a huge difference is the elasticity of the pc'd bullets. They seem to be less affected by powders that have a fast start/high pressure compared to powers that have more of a push. They tend to be able to withstand the twisting of the bullet better along with the compression that takes place when the base of the bullet obutrates. Not my picture, got this from a member on another website. We we talking about bullet compression and how that affects the bullets deformation/skidding.

" />

Recovered bullets have stories to tell if you are willing to listen, these are no different. Look at the bottom groove/lube groove. Compare them to the un-shot bullets above. Note that some are allot smaller. That compression that was caused by the short start pressure and obutration of the bullets base (the smack vs push thing). While this is happening the body/nose/1st part of the bullet to hit/touch the riflings starts twisting. That's when you look for clean land marks on the length of the bullet like the one in the above picture on the far right. No major base compression and complete rifling marks the length of the bullet, perfect!!! I've picked up 100's of my shot pc'd bullets and looked at them. There's been different degrees of compression on the bullets bases but all of them have shown crisp clear complete land grooves in them. That means no skidding.

A brand new revolver and 2nd range trip testing some 38spl plinking loads. These are only 6-shot groups @ 50ft but I've only tested 4 different bullets with 4 different powders and ended up with the 3 keepers.
" />

Had allot of loads that looked like this, not good!!!
" />

Anyway, I believe that coated bullets are a good thing. They are cheap, forgiving, no smoke and easy firearm clean-up after range sessions. But like anything else, just another opinion

It's also nice when you do find a firearm/load combo that shoots bugholes. Same new revolver but this time testing plinking 357 loads @ 50ft.

" />

Kept getting groups that looked like these. Then it hit me.

My 20+ year old beat to death 357 cases are worse than my 40 year old 5th grade spelling/education.

After a couple of years of testing/shooting pc'd bullets, I have enough confidence in them to look at other areas of reloading when there's a problem. With pc'd bullets and you get 3 or 4 touching, you're close. You just need to tweak your reload. When you consistently get 4 or 5 touching look at mechanical things that can and will affect groups. I've seen this allot more with pc'd bullets in the past 2 years that I've seen in the past 30+ years with traditional cast/lubed bullets. Hate to tell you how many times I chased my tail in the past trying to figure out what or why.

3221, Awesome post !!! Great information and well written.

I've only been powder coating for a year but already am seeing the traits you described above. I used to cast different hardness for just about everything when I used lube. Now it seems 12bhn works for everything I shoot. Sure I could go softer for some but why bother.

I don't know why but it does seem that a powder coated bullet obstruates, changes shape, fills the bore, whatever you want to call it, better than a lubed bullet and without degrading its overall performance.

It's almost like a malleable lob inside a flexible polymer sack. I know there are limits but like 3221 described those limits have to found for each individual design and intended load.

It's kind of cool working with something that is still very much in the discovery stage.

Just wait until all the big commercial gadget making folks catch on.

Motor

This great post

Yes please. I have many beginner silly questions to ask...

I've loved them so far.  I've only use ACME so far but may go with Eggelston for my next bullet purchase since they offer other colors even if they do cost a bit more than the ACME I'm using now.  The ACMEs come in neato wooden boxes as well which I've put to use around the reloading table.   Using one to hold the projectiles and the other to catch the completed rounds as the press spits them out to await final inspection before going into my ammo boxes.    

I'm using 124 grn RN on 6.5 grns of Accurate #7 in my GLOCK 17 (with factory barrel) and have been VERY happy with the decreased smoke and mess.  And handling the projectile during the reloading process is MUCH, MUCH cleaner.  I'm a convert for sure PC bullets will be all I use in my handgun reloads from now on.

Thank you for that.
Believe me when I say that I know you and reloaders like dryflash3 have paid their dues with years of reading/studying/testing/comparing when it comes to reloading.

I'm not blowing my own horn, actually the more I learn, the more I find that I have to learn along with paying attention to details/clues.
A little background:

I was lucky enough to learn casting/reloading from my brother in the 70's. He is not only an excellent marksman, he has a drafting degree with a mechanical/machinist background. Him and a shooting friend of his used to buy the same firearms/molds/powders/equipment and test them and then sell it off and buy something else to try/test. These guys were making hardness testers for testing the hardness of lead/lead alloys in the 70's, years before lee came out with there's. I finely started buying my own equipment in 1985 when I moved onto property and setup a 200yd pistol range & a 1500yd rifle range. I did allot of asking/testing back then (no internet) and still do to this day.

Anyway, I've used nothing but plain old range scrap/berm lead/hill pickings from outdoor ranges since the 90's. I've always smelted it down in 100# batches and the bhn runs anywhere from 9bhn to 10bhn. Water dropping the cast bullets made the bhn around 14bhn. I've used that alloy for 99% of my shooting since the 90's. Every now and then I'll run a small batch (10#/350 to 400 bullets) of the range lead mixed 3 to 1 with mono-type to use in a rifle.

A bullets BHN is SSSSOOOOOOOOOO OVERRATED!!!! Sorry had to get that off my chest.

They came up with the formula 1440 x bhn for matching the pressure of the load to the alloy being used. And reloaders have be using that formula the wrong way ever since!!!! What that formula is showing is what the MINIMUM pressure should be for a given alloy. Here's how it started: 12bhn is an extremely common bhn. Wheel weights used to be (1970's) 12bhn, they were free. Countless 1000's of casters used them for making bullets. The ww's are getting harder to come buy and have been around 10bhn/11bhn for a couple decades now. So you got these caster that have all the free alloy/lead they want casting with this free alloy. Some figure it out, other not so much. They see streaks in their bbl's and think its lead when in actually it's antimonial wash. WW's are extremely high in antimony (cheap metal that hardens lead) and low in tin. So what's the 1st thing they do, water drop the bullets to make them harder. GREAT now the bhn is around 15bhn for the same bullet!!!

1440 x  12bhn ='s 17,280psi
1440 x 15bhn ='s 21,600psi

Casters/reloaders got leading and thought it was because the alloy they were using is too soft. Looking at the #'s above reloaders thought dang, I need a harder bullet for my 27,000psi load for my 9mm. Next thing you know comercial casters start selling rock hard bullets along with super hard lubes. 16bhn to 18bhn bullets became the norm, they look good when you open the box. They are sooooooo hard they don't get dinged up during shipping and the hard lube stays in place, hence eye candy.

Reality:
Those 1440 #'s are showing the caster/reloader what the MINIMUN psi should be for that bullet's bhn. So next time you buy some 12bhn lead bullets (12bhn ='s low by todays comercial caster's standards) and try to develop a plinking/target load for your 45acp your load/psi will be too low and the alloy/bullet will not obturate/seal the bbl. Example: A 230gr lead rn bullet using 5.ogr of bullseye (standard ball duplication load for decades) is only in the 16,00psi range. Well below the MINIMUM 17,280psi from the 1440 formula. Or people that order 12bhn bullets for target loads in their 45acp's, the h&g #68 has been a favorite and countless 1,000,000's of them have been sent down range by countless 1000's of target shooters in their 45acp's. A common 45acp/200gr swc target load is 4.0gr of bullseye, most reloaders start testing at 3.6gr and go up to 4.2gr, That 200gr bullet/4.0gr bullseye load is only in the 10,000psi range. Wwwwwwaaaaayyyyy under the 1440-17,280psi calculation. My 45acp target load with the h&g #68 and 3.8gr of bullseye using 8bhn bullets cast from a custom mold.
" />

1440 x 8bhn ='s 11,520psi

Can you cheat the formula??? YES, but keep in mind that when that formula gives you a psi # it is telling you the Minimum you should use. It's actually easier to use a softer alloy that will alloy the reloader some wiggle room to compensate for other factors like fit/lube/etc.

Fit is King:
Everyone's herd/parroted this about lead bullets for ever. Is fit important??? Yes, the closer the fit, the more forgiving the reload will be with lead bullets. Wrong alloy, the tight fitting lead bullet will help seal the cylinders/throats/bores. Too small and the bbl leads because the bullet can't seal the hot gasses. Is there wiggle room with fit??? Yes, a bullets fit and hardness go hand in hand. The harder the alloy the more perfect the fit, the softer the alloy the more forgiving but only to a point.

Fit may be King but lube is Queen:
I've always used 2 different lubes in the past. For lower pressured loads I'd use a soft lube that had a high oil content. For high pressure loads I'd use a harder lube that had a high wax content. Lube not only protects the bbl for leading but it is also a gasket helping to seal the bore and coat the bore for the next bullet. Too soft of a lube at high pressures fail because they get blow out of the lube grooves too quickly. Too hard of a lube for low pressure loads, the lube can't flow to be able to seal and coat the bullet/bbl.

Types of leading:
beginning of bbl ='s wrong bullet size/too small
length of bbl ='s wrong alloy/too soft or too hard
end/muzzle of bbl ='s wrong lube

Yes you can get leading in the beginning of the bbl's on revolvers from thread constriction. Slugging the bbl will tell you if that's what caused the leading.

Putting it all together:
You got your traditional cast/lubed bullets, decide on a load and go out ant do some testing. When you pull the trigger tour cast/lubed bullet does this. Forces are exerted on the base of the bullet and gases go by the base until it obturates/expands/seals the gases from flame cutting the base. (fit is king) After the gases are sealed off (if not leading in the beginning of the bbl) the base of the bullet compresses (remember the 44cal bullets pictured above). As it compresses it squeezes the lube out of the grease groove and pushes it forward under pressure. The lube will also be pressurized by the gasses getting by the base of the bullet and be pushed forward into the land marks in the bullet acting like a gasket sealing any imperfections. Back to the fit is king thing, if the bullet is the correct size is will control the pressure exerted on the lube allowing it to form a pool of lube/pressure sealant the length of the bbl.

This is why some loads work and other do not. You are matching the bbl size with a bullet size and then adding pressure. Add in how elastic the alloy is along with what pressures the lube functions best at and you will find an accurate load. Does the alloy have to be a perfect match (1440 x xxx)??? No, actually a little softer is better. Are hard lubes better?? No, most applications will actually do better with the softer lubes. Softer allows are more forgiving and aid in any fit issues. Softer lubes will aid with alloy issues.

Why look at shot bullets?
skidding ='s trailing edge of the land marks or smeared nose
base compression ='s length of lube groove after pressure

Too much compression will eject all the lube too quickly, need harder alloy. To little compression will not put enough pressure on the lube or obutrate the base of the bullet, too hard of an alloy. Skidding on the nose of the bullet is too soft of an alloy or too small of a bullet. skidding on the body of the bullet is to small, wrong lube, too soft of an alloy.

What does all this have to do with coated bullets???

The coating takes any lube issues out of the picture. There's no more too hard or too soft, the right amount of pressure from the gasses leaking by the bases to spread/pressurize the lube, etc. The coating is already everywhere it needs to be and does what it's supposed to do, ACT LIKE A GASKET!!! That's why we see higher fps with coated bullets compared to their traditional cast/lubed counterparts when using the same load. A bi-product of the coating process is the annealing of the lead alloy making it softer. The softer alloy obturate/expands/seals better than a harder alloy. The end result is that the coated bullet user ends up with a bullets that expands seals better and has a complete lube/coating/bbl gasket already in place.

When using a traditional cast lubed bullet you are doing nothing more than eliminating the mistakes that that cause the loss of accuracy. This means as close a fit/bullet size as possible using an alloy that allows the pressure of the load to expand/obturate the base of the bullet so that the pressure getting by the base is just right so that it will pressurize the lube to seal the land marks as the bullet goes down the bbl. If any of these things are not right, the reloader experiences accuracy loss. The real problem is trying to figure out how/why.

Coated bullets take all that out of play!!! The only real thing the reloader is matching is the bullet design limitations, the fit of the bullet, and the pressures being exerted on that bullet. Hence my earlier statement in an earlier post.
"Even though the coated bullet is .002" undersized they work with high pressure loads".  

It doesn't matter how long a persons been reloading or how much they reload. Everyone has something to learn from each other. New reloaders post here and ask questions, I get to read/learn from the response's, things like equipment I don't own or use, bullets I've never tried, firearms and expectations, etc.

Anyway, I wish they had coated bullets 30 years ago. Coated pistol bullet/loads are a walk in the park, it's working with coated rifle bullets/loads that will pay off in spades.

Great write-up 3221! That answered a lot of questions/concerns I had about lead hardness and bullet performance. It also eased my guilt about switching to powder coating. Thank you.

A couple observations I have made so far after running a few batches:
1. Tumbling with BB's did not work well for me. I tried the dark grey (thought they were black) ones from Academy. I got worse coating results. Some sections are coated thick, while some not at all.
2. Cooking spray is not a replacement for non-stick foil. Sigh... Didn't have non-stick. I wiped a little spray on the foil. Still stuck really good.
3. No idea how some of the people online are baking them in a pile and breaking them apart? WTH??? Very poor coating results that way for me. They are stuck so well that when you break part, they just leave the worst looking marks on edges with missing sections of coat.
4. Parchment paper... No idea what this stuff is but wife gave me it when I asked for non-stick foil. It worked well to prevent sticking. BUT... I still end up with a poor base where some of the powder that falls on the paper around it (or some that melts down side?) leave a pool of coat at the base of the bullet.

Essentially, I am not having a successful time so far.

I am using HF Red

Thanks. Just checked.. bowls have the 5. Cool.

I am definitely not a pile em up guy either but I ran 5 small test batches and I figured I would try it.

My best batch in terms of coating was first. I was hoping to improve on it with the BB's. I did not. If I can get the powder to stick better, I will definitely whack the side of the container. That should help. The least powder coverage tends to be in the lube grooves. The bullets I am testing have a very wide/deep groove (for Cowboy loads - BP). Not sure why the powder isn't sticking there.

I ran out of non-lubed bullets so I will need to cast more this weekend to play a bit more. There were two kinds of near black BB's at academy... One that was very dark grey but really dull looking. A second was more expensive (smaller container) but shiny. Might be the ones in your pic. I didn't think the shine was a good sign so I got the dull ones. Maybe I chose poorly? I figured the expense and shine was not necessary. I know nothing of airsoft.

The general consensus is that .25gr BLACK BBs work the best. Brand does not seem to be factor either as long as they are .25gr and black.

I started with .20gr white and got by ok. Then I got tired of waiting for someone local to get some .25gr BLACK and bought a bag of 4000 on eBay.

The difference was very noticeable first time I used them.

Motor

Are you positive you aren't shaving the lead on loading?

I load some hot, hot loads in polygonal barrels with no issues, but if you are shaving the bullet it will lead on near anything.

We did a test run in my friend's 45acp Glock with 200gr Lee SWC coated with HF red powder coat. We were shooting one 7 round at a time and doing a through bore check after every magazine. We shot 50 rounds and besides the normal powder fouling the bore was as clean as before we started.

I'm guessing if you are getting lead fouling in your 10mm you are (as already mentioned) shaving the PC when seating or simply driving them too hard. Also. PC is not a jacket and is no substitute for good alloy and good fit.

Motor

Ah, that may be it. I do not have much experience with those.

I've had good luck with Lucky13 PC bullets....that and they are 5 min from my house..
.30 carbine




7.62x25




.38




Not to mention all the other calibers 9/40/45
 
 

My division's office is just a bit down the road from there, I keep meaning to stop in...

Removed, this is not GD. dryflash3
just do it.....





 

 

I picked up 9mm from Eggleston Munitions, unfortunately the packaging they shipped in sucked and the bags busted open and there were loose bullets all over the place.
If I can see bare lead through the coating or the coating has scrapped/flaked off, that's no good right? I haven't loaded any yet, working through a batch of xtreme first.
Shooting through a VP9, I'm a little worried if if the coating is already coming off just in shipment.

Ok so now I have another question for all of you to ring in on. I have some older cast/lubed bullets that have the lube dried up,coming out,etc.  I would like to powder coat those,and maybe some others too. What would you do to clean the lube off so these bullets can be coated? I am thinking some degreaser of sorts,but not sure how well that will work on wax-based lubes.

Some people have done a double boiler with water in a pan, then cleaned the bullets in a solvent (I've seen people try several solvents online, never tried it myself).

If they are already lubed, just shoot them or melt them.

Would you mind sharing your .30 Carbine and 7.62X25 loads?  I've used a few Lucky13 bullets, but haven't tried either of those loads yet.

 

Thanks in advance.

The only place it matters is where the bullet will be in contact with the bore. Even there if they are just little bare looking spots you probably won't have any problems.

It seems some of the commercial coatings are more like paint than powder coat.

Another thing to look at too is something "we" see when using the shake & method. Sometimes it appears that you don't have good coverage.

There will be small bare looking spots but if you look at the bullet under a magnifying glass the bare looking spots are not actually bare they are just lacking pigment.

If you take a sharp object like a scribe and scratch the surface you can see that there is actually a resin coating on the bullet where it looks bare.

This may not be what you are seeing but I wanted to point that out for others. Because it's the resin that counts the pigment is well, just color.

Motor

You can try to use boiling water. That may work and could get the bulk of it off.

When I first started PCing I had a bunch of bullets already lubed with Lee A-Lox. So I ask the guys on the "cast boolit forum" if its possible to clean it off and there were several suggestions but most involved soaking in some type of paint thinner either mineral spirits or similar over night then wash in hot dish washing detergent water then rinsing with hot water.

So I went out to the garage to see what I had on hand.

I had a gallon of Xylol Xylene (a paint thinner). I also had a home made parts cleaning basket I made out of a steel coffee can,(remember those?)

So I got an old cooking pot that the basket can would fit nice and close to minimize the need for the liquid, put the bullets in the basket, put the basket in the pot, then poured enough Xylol Xylene in to cover the bullets.

I let them soak for only 5 minutes then grabbed the handle of the basket and worked them around some spinning the basket and lifting it up out of the thinner as to rinse the bullets.

To my amazement the Ethanol Xylene removed all of the lube easily in less than 10 minutes.

I then drained off the thinner and poured the bullets into hot water with dish washing detergent and stirred them around with a paint stick. After that I poured the bullets into another container with clean warm water and rinsed them again.

At this point they were ready to go into the house. Once inside the house I washed them again with dish washing detergent then poured them into a old colander and gave them a good hot water rinse.

Then I laid them out on a towel to dry. Believe me all this took less time than it did to type it here and it works great.

Caution: Xylol Xylene is nasty stuff. Where water proof gloves and eye protection and use in a well ventilated area outside of your living space. It does safely remove bullet lube though and does it VERY QUICKLY.

Motor

WOO HOOO, I figured out how to post decent size photos.

Thanks Motor, I was looking to try something about like that myself. Had experience with xylene before,potent stuff. It will remove layers of skin very quickly. Btdt. I will give lacquer thinner a try.

Thank you Dryflash3,I will heed your advice.Any and all of that stuff needs to be used outdoors or a place with plenty of ventilation.  I just hope that it cleans the lube off really well so I can PC those bullets.

Are those bullets coated with the shake n bake method? Have you used any pc besides the Harbor Freight coating?

You put gas check on before PC, it appears. I found out the hard way the GC didnt fit on the first batch of Saeco 315 mold (308 175ish). Sigh.. But I made another post GC coated boolits and tested Sunday. Holy crap! Shot fairly well. Didnt chrono but they liked as full a case of Leverevolution the 30-30 case could handle. Started conpressing so I stopped a grain or so below max (guessing since Hodgdon doesnt have any cast data on the powder).

May post details and odd pics in new thread when I get my head organized.

Ok so I have seen a lot of pics of powder coated bullets,read a lot of suggestions and also seen a few pics of bullets that have been fired and recovered,but mostly rifle bullets.Anyone here recovered any pistol bullets to determine just how well the pc stays on after traveling thru the rifling? If you have Hi-tek and/or pc bullets,I would like to see and/hear the results of how well the coating stays on after being fired and/or impacted on a target.How much,if any,of the powder coat stays in the barrel?

Gee, when I asked about removing lube I got told to just "choot 'em" because you'll never remove all the lube.  I have stacked deep factory cast and wax lubed bullets and it sounds like there is a way to remove the lube and get powder coat to stick.  Is there a safe storage method for the xylene and laquer thinner that's been used?  I don't want to bun down my house or detached garage over lube.

Hopefully, if left outside, the used cleaner would evaporate eventually.  One thought is buying two cans of the xylene and using up one can and returning the used liquid to the original can...

Either one of those thinners will evaporate VERY QUICKLY!  I used to keep lacquer thinner in a glass jar sealed up after it was contaminated ,but the lid wouldn't seal up completely airtight so I had to replace it pretty regularly.
Just don't try to store them in plastics.Use a metal can or maybe a mason jar.Just be careful of where you store it.

Powder coated bullets shoot great in my Glock 20 with the stock Glock barrel.

I shot some bullets from my Glock 20 coated with harbor freight red into some chunks of oaf from a tree I had cut down. Most of the coating was still on the bullets. Only where the bullet had really deformed was the powder coat missing. I don't have any pictures but I'll see if I have any of the bullets in my lead cache, if I do I'll take a pic.

Since this has turned into mostly a PC discussion, I figure I can ask this.

I am using some commercially available PC bullets in my 300 BLK AR. Supersonic. I load them to a speed as recommended by the bullet mfg.

I am getting a bunch of lead on the tail of my bolt and on the outside of my gas tube where it enters the gas key. The bolt isn't too bad to clean, the gas tube on the other hand....

A friend said to expect some vaporized lead, but that seems like a bit much. And I know I must be breathing it in with every shot.

Does this seem normal?

It has been a battle. I have run gas checks and that helps. My suspicion in that the commercial cast lead (20 BH) is too hard and we are getting blow by (no obturation to seal bore) that is gas cutting the bullet and causing the leading. I have had better luck with subs such as the 245 MBC coated bullets. Not completely eliminated but better. I plan on casting some softer NOE 247's to see if that helps. Will be a few weeks before I get it done. I get minor leading on the bolt tail and some minor leading in the blast chamber of the suppressor and on the crown of the barrel.

More than most likely you're either scraping the coating off of the bullet when your seating it. Or when the bullets are feeding, etc. No coating, no protection.

OOOOOOOOOOOOORRRRRRRRRRR

You're using the wrong expander and the bullets are getting swaged down in diameter that's too small for your bore and the bullets just can't expand enough to seal the bbl.

I've shot pc'd/coated bullets in a 308 and have played with different sizes .308/.309/.310/.311. I've never had a problem with leading and I've shot loads that ranged from 12,00psi to 50,000+psi with speeds from 1000fps to heavy 230gr bullets doing 2300+fps. With all the different loads/sizes/bullets/testing I've never had any leading. But the only to things that stayed the same through out everything was the use of either:

A british 303 (.310) expander ball when fl sizing the brass for the larger .310/.311 bullets.
The use of a lee universal flaring die. That opens the mouth of the case enough so that there is no scraping of the sides of the coated bullets when they are seated.

I've shot over 600# of cast/coated bullets now in anything from a 38spl to a 308. I can only think of 2 times that I've had any leading issues. 1 time was when I wasn't flaring the case mouths enough and I was scraping the coating off of the bullets. The other was when I tried to use a standard 9mm expander with pc'd bullets sized to .356. Had real bad leading so I pulled a couple of loaded rounds and measured the bullets. Darn cases swaged the base of the bullets down to .353. Reloading dies are setup for jacketed bullets, in your case .308. They also allow for neck tension to hold the bullets in place. Larger than normal diameter lead/coated/soft bullets get swaged down and bad things happen.

You might want to load up 9 or 10 dummy rounds and then pull them to take a ood look at what's going on. If there's no scraping or the bullets aren't being swaged down that only leaves option #3.

Option #3 ='s something mechanical like being scrapped while feeding or your bbl looks like a wood rasp, etc.