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Posted: 5/21/2015 8:45:51 PM EDT
Typical RCBS marketing:

Introduce new, quality, exciting & innovative products at the January Shot Show, then hide them for 5 months....no marketing except at the shot show booth.

Finally ship them to Midway USA 5 months later.  (Summer is for all intents and purposes here.)

Promise an important, deal maker, feature add-on for Summer release.....that would be the new casefeeder designed for them. (will probably materialize in September or later....who knows...maybe even next year)

Well that's RCBS!  Great products, with the best customer service, and but no marketing excepting a maybe a full page gun mag spread.....eventually.

But don't worry, if the new presses are that good you'll hear all about it eventually here at AR15.com.  I won't be an early adopter with these, sorry.  I already have a great progressive, the old fashioned Pro 2000.

Since you will have to search "Pro Chucker", the only way to even find the presses on Midway, I'll help out with two links.
Pro Chucker 5
Pro Chucker 7



Link Posted: 5/21/2015 9:07:31 PM EDT
[#1]
I'm sure they will be great presses. But at that price point I just don't see them being competitive with the Dillons or even the LNLs, especially when both already have a large following and especially in the Dillon's case, well known high quality casefeeders that are already available.
Link Posted: 5/21/2015 10:13:22 PM EDT
[#2]
819 Dollars?  I assume those are US dollars.

They must  be on crack if they can sell more than several at that price.  I love the toolhead feature, and I don't think much of the Hornaday LNL bayonet type adapters.

Like the others said, Hornaday and Dillon have too much of a head start to even consider the RCBS press with an even price.  Double?  forget it.

What is up with RCBS?  They used to be a market leader, but the past several decades have not seen much innovation.  Anything they make is out of date and overpriced compared to the other brands. That Hollywood type press?  70 years out of date.  The RCBS Supreme?  That should have been introduced in the late 80's when magnum rounds like the 30-378 type rounds made their entrance.  Their reloading die designs were passed up a decade or so ago by Lee and then by Hornaday, again.
Link Posted: 5/21/2015 10:17:07 PM EDT
[#3]
HA . I called them today and the said another 8 weeks
Link Posted: 5/21/2015 10:42:45 PM EDT
[#4]
8 weeks for what?  A little more specific please......you mean the case feeder or one of the presses......and who did you call?

Midway allowed me to checkout with the product to be shipped tomorrow, on a Pro Chucker 5 press......no I didn't press the final order button.....just wanted to see.

I hope you guys will keep RCBS bashing to a minimum.....(I'm prone to bash their marketing skills, but I've never owned an RCBS product that wasn't great).  This thread was created to update info about the new presses....the first really new progressives in years!  ....yes Dillon and Hornady have large existing customer bases, so what.......most reloaders still load on a single station press, with market leaders, Lee on the low end and RCBS on the high end.

As for price point......we need to look at the whole picture.  Dillon gets twice that $800 price for one more station, a swager and a case feeder......it sells quite well.  I think one is premature to count this offering out yet until the whole picture is in front of us......
Link Posted: 5/21/2015 11:05:10 PM EDT
[#5]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
8 weeks for what?  A little more specific please......you mean the case feeder or one of the presses......and who did you call?

Midway allowed me to checkout with the product to be shipped tomorrow, on a Pro Chucker 5 press......no I didn't press the final order button.....just wanted to see.

I hope you guys will keep RCBS bashing to a minimum.....(I'm prone to bash their marketing skills, but I've never owned an RCBS product that wasn't great).  This thread was created to update info about the new presses....the first really new progressives in years!  ....yes Dillon and Hornady have large existing customer bases, so what.......most reloaders still load on a single station press, with market leaders, Lee on the low end and RCBS on the high end.

As for price point......we need to look at the whole picture.  Dillon gets twice that $800 price for one more station, a swager and a case feeder......it sells quite well.  I think one is premature to count this offering out yet until the whole picture is in front of us......
View Quote


I called RCBS

8 weeks before the pro chucker 7 would be available.
Link Posted: 5/21/2015 11:09:17 PM EDT
[#6]
It was not RCBS bashing, merely an observation that they are charging an equal or greater amount for a product with fewer additions, like case feeders, and competing in a market with two extremely well established alternatives. 4, if you count all the Dillon product line, although I was just comparing 650 and LNL.

I would take slight issue with your statement on single stage loaders, though. For the high end I would be more apt to consider forster and redding.
Link Posted: 5/21/2015 11:19:32 PM EDT
[#7]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
<snip>
As for price point......we need to look at the whole picture.  Dillon gets twice that $800 price for one more station, a swager and a case feeder......it sells quite well.  I think one is premature to count this offering out yet until the whole picture is in front of us......
View Quote



You also get manually adjusted primer seating depth, priming on the downstroke, cast iron frame, easily purchased auto-drive systems, 20+ year track record, and a 2 millon round press life.  Yes, that plus the swaging ability costs $625 more but for those considering the 2 presses I just don't see the price being the deciding factor.
Link Posted: 5/21/2015 11:19:58 PM EDT
[#8]
Screw it , I ordered the 5 station to start.  

If I don't like it I can always sell it.
Link Posted: 5/22/2015 12:24:11 AM EDT
[#9]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
It was not RCBS bashing, merely an observation that they are charging an equal or greater amount for a product with fewer additions, like case feeders, and competing in a market with two extremely well established alternatives. 4, if you count all the Dillon product line, although I was just comparing 650 and LNL.

I would take slight issue with your statement on single stage loaders, though. For the high end I would be more apt to consider forster and redding.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
It was not RCBS bashing, merely an observation that they are charging an equal or greater amount for a product with fewer additions, like case feeders, and competing in a market with two extremely well established alternatives. 4, if you count all the Dillon product line, although I was just comparing 650 and LNL.

I would take slight issue with your statement on single stage loaders, though. For the high end I would be more apt to consider forster and redding.


Yours and my personal preferences and considerations have nothing to do with it.  Market leaders are market leaders.....Lee is #1, RCBS is #2 in sales of single station presses.  Dillon is barely #1 on progressives (thanks to having more models) but Hornady is catching up with only one model.  We may analyze these two new RCBS progressives and find that your initial observations are correct.  But until they're wrung out, I think such a definite negative observation is premature.  Give RCBS a chance.  They have some really good features that update the old technology pioneered by Dillon.  

I will be interested to see whether the primer system is any safer than Dillon's 650 with the rotating disk.  I know APS is safer.....even Hornady's primer system is some what safer, but anytime you have 100 primers stacked in a tube together, there is a possibility for a dangerous chain reaction.  

Quoted:
You also get manually adjusted primer seating depth, priming on the downstroke, cast iron frame, easily purchased auto-drive systems, 20+ year track record, and a 2 millon round press life.  Yes, that plus the swaging ability costs $625 more but for those considering the 2 presses I just don't see the price being the deciding factor.


Even the Pro 2000 has a manually adjusted primer seating depth.....I'm hoping that feature is still found in the new presses.....don't know though.  Unfortunately, the Pro 2000's cast iron frame feature is gone.  That was due to Dillon's success with keeping their customers happy inspite of linkage breakage......I've never heard of such breakage on Rock Chuckers or Pro 2000's.....ever.   Their cheaper alum. Partner presses, and RS presses yes.  I understand that the linkage arms of the new Pro Chuckers (most common broken cast part on Dillon's) is made of steel.  Maybe that will reduce breakage.  

I don't think RCBS is targeting the Pro Chucker 7 to those wanting auto-drive systems......I wouldn't add that to any alum. press.  I think the PC7 is targeted to pistol loaders who still want a hand crank......most of us I'm pretty sure.

You said, "I just don't see the price being the deciding factor."  I agree with that 100%  This is all about market niche.  Price only is Lee's and even Hornady's niches, with Hornady also appealing to the die bushing preferring customer.....price for them is initially a bonus, somewhat nullified when they buy feeders.

One feature unique to RCBS is the upgrade-ability.  A Pro Chucker 5 can be made into a Pro Chucker 7 with a kit......kinda like how a Pro 2000 manual can be upgraded to a Pro 2000 Autoadvance with a $100 kit.  That upgrade-ability will appeal to a beginner who maybe doesn't understand why they would need 7 stations, but like the idea that they can in the future if they want without having to buy another press.  Or a customer who can't swing the high price now, but figure in a few years they could.

Another feature is the supposed smooth auto-advance.  It will be interesting to compare it to the 1050's.  The 1050 has to be a little smoother with that large diameter shell plate.  RCBS is putting its faith in a locating rod to smooth up the rotation and lessen the powder jump at the end of each stroke.....we will see.

BM3.....you're the brave early adopter & pioneer, then!  We will be waiting for you to wring it out!  Me, on pins and needles!


Link Posted: 5/22/2015 1:15:35 AM EDT
[#10]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
8 weeks for what?  A little more specific please......you mean the case feeder or one of the presses......and who did you call?

Midway allowed me to checkout with the product to be shipped tomorrow, on a Pro Chucker 5 press......no I didn't press the final order button.....just wanted to see.

I hope you guys will keep RCBS bashing to a minimum.....(I'm prone to bash their marketing skills, but I've never owned an RCBS product that wasn't great).  This thread was created to update info about the new presses....the first really new progressives in years!  ....yes Dillon and Hornady have large existing customer bases, so what.......most reloaders still load on a single station press, with market leaders, Lee on the low end and RCBS on the high end.

As for price point......we need to look at the whole picture.  Dillon gets twice that $800 price for one more station, a swager and a case feeder......it sells quite well.  I think one is premature to count this offering out yet until the whole picture is in front of us......
View Quote


I apologize for the reflexive RCBS bashing.  I've bought too much of their stuff since the mid-80's I wish I bought from another manufacturer, so it has some basis.

I did not see the difference in the second link, other than the price.  I would be all over a 7 stage press as 5 stations is not quite enough, but I have too  much vested in Pro-jectors to switch.  I'd like to see the case advance mechanism up close as that - and the priming system - are the real flaws in the Pro-jector/LNL.  Those slots in the shellplates look intriguing.
Link Posted: 5/22/2015 12:23:56 PM EDT
[#11]
We need more reviews...

Why would they develop the bullet feeder before the case feeder

It also looks like the shell plate slightly moves in the upstroke.. Wonder what the purpose of that is?

Other than that, looks really nice. I'll stick with my LNL for now, it's going to take a Dillon 1050 for me to even consider updating...


Link Posted: 5/22/2015 3:04:46 PM EDT
[#12]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
We need more reviews...

Why would they develop the bullet feeder before the case feeder

It also looks like the shell plate slightly moves in the upstroke.. Wonder what the purpose of that is?

Other than that, looks really nice. I'll stick with my LNL for now, it's going to take a Dillon 1050 for me to even consider updating...


https://youtu.be/alestMi_c9s
View Quote



I don't get that either.  You can live without a bullet feeder but with no case feeder this press is all but worthless to 99% of the people that would have looked at buying one I would think.

I also wonder how they plan on rigging a case feeder to work or did I miss where they have an open station to put the case feeder?
Link Posted: 5/22/2015 3:45:55 PM EDT
[#13]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



I don't get that either.  You can live without a bullet feeder but with no case feeder this press is all but worthless to 99% of the people that would have looked at buying one I would think.

I also wonder how they plan on rigging a case feeder to work or did I miss where they have an open station to put the case feeder?
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
We need more reviews...

Why would they develop the bullet feeder before the case feeder

It also looks like the shell plate slightly moves in the upstroke.. Wonder what the purpose of that is?

Other than that, looks really nice. I'll stick with my LNL for now, it's going to take a Dillon 1050 for me to even consider updating...


https://youtu.be/alestMi_c9s



I don't get that either.  You can live without a bullet feeder but with no case feeder this press is all but worthless to 99% of the people that would have looked at buying one I would think.

I also wonder how they plan on rigging a case feeder to work or did I miss where they have an open station to put the case feeder?


First of all, they already had the bullet feeder developed for the RCBS Pro 2000, and Dillon presses.  (Dillon doesn't make one).  So naturally at the Shot Show they are going to show it with the feeder they had.  I for one am not in a great hurry for a case feeder that is as problematic as Hornady's is for some calibers.  I say to RCBS, take your time brethren, and get it right.

Using a Pro 2000 where I decided to invent my own case feeder, mainly to see if it could be done, I found that the bullet feeder was more important to me.  Why?  Because fitting a bullet to a case and balancing it while it moves up into the die is a hell of a lot slower than a quick manual push of a case into the shell plate.  In a nut shell, feeding bullets take more time than feeding cases and feeding cases don't risk your fingers to get bit while trying to feed and hurry.  So, I found that if I only could have ONE feeder it would be a bullet feeder.

As for "worthless to 99%", if that were true 99% of Hornady AP customers would have the case feeder.....they don't....lots don't.  But that's neither here or there, the new Pro Chuckers indeed have the case feeder station, and the case feeder subplate, and the predrilled holes for the case feeder.......and as soon as it's right.......

The following picture shows the case feeder arm near the back support (part of the sub shell plate)  The next picture shows a bunch of threaded holes....obviously to support the case feeder.  I have seen zero pictures of it however.


Link Posted: 5/22/2015 3:46:56 PM EDT
[#14]
The case feeder loads right after the crimp station, right under the sizing die.
Link Posted: 5/22/2015 3:50:44 PM EDT
[#15]
I got my confirmation email , card was charged and it will be in my hands on Tuesday.
Link Posted: 5/22/2015 4:46:11 PM EDT
[#16]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



I don't get that either.  You can live without a bullet feeder but with no case feeder this press is all but worthless to 99% of the people that would have looked at buying one I would think.

I also wonder how they plan on rigging a case feeder to work or did I miss where they have an open station to put the case feeder?
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
We need more reviews...

Why would they develop the bullet feeder before the case feeder

It also looks like the shell plate slightly moves in the upstroke.. Wonder what the purpose of that is?

Other than that, looks really nice. I'll stick with my LNL for now, it's going to take a Dillon 1050 for me to even consider updating...


https://youtu.be/alestMi_c9s



I don't get that either.  You can live without a bullet feeder but with no case feeder this press is all but worthless to 99% of the people that would have looked at buying one I would think.

I also wonder how they plan on rigging a case feeder to work or did I miss where they have an open station to put the case feeder?

pretty sure the reason they focus on the bullet feeder is that it requires a station . . . and they have a 7 station press.

IOW, the bullet feeder is more likely to sell the 7 station press than the case feeder.
Link Posted: 5/22/2015 5:10:05 PM EDT
[#17]
1.  Size/decap
2.  Swage
3.  Trim/deburr/chamfer
4.  Prime
5.  Charge
6.  Powder Check
7.  Seat
8.  Crimp


I have always felt reloading presses did not have enough stations.  It seems 8 stations are required, as a minimum, for rifle reloading.
Link Posted: 5/22/2015 7:20:46 PM EDT
[#18]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


First of all, they already had the bullet feeder developed for the RCBS Pro 2000, and Dillon presses.  (Dillon doesn't make one).  So naturally at the Shot Show they are going to show it with the feeder they had.  I for one am not in a great hurry for a case feeder that is as problematic as Hornady's is for some calibers.  I say to RCBS, take your time brethren, and get it right.

Using a Pro 2000 where I decided to invent my own case feeder, mainly to see if it could be done, I found that the bullet feeder was more important to me.  Why?  Because fitting a bullet to a case and balancing it while it moves up into the die is a hell of a lot slower than a quick manual push of a case into the shell plate.  In a nut shell, feeding bullets take more time than feeding cases and feeding cases don't risk your fingers to get bit while trying to feed and hurry.  So, I found that if I only could have ONE feeder it would be a bullet feeder.

As for "worthless to 99%", if that were true 99% of Hornady AP customers would have the case feeder.....they don't....lots don't.  But that's neither here or there, the new Pro Chuckers indeed have the case feeder station, and the case feeder subplate, and the predrilled holes for the case feeder.......and as soon as it's right.......

The following picture shows the case feeder arm near the back support (part of the sub shell plate)  The next picture shows a bunch of threaded holes....obviously to support the case feeder.  I have see zero pictures of it however.
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b356/kombayotch/Shot%20Show/Shot%20Show%202015/3E237EEE-13E7-40CB-9CA7-747EA563BE32_zpsezsqpdyr.jpghttp://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b356/kombayotch/Shot%20Show/Shot%20Show%202015/IMG_3010_zps59299595.jpg

View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
We need more reviews...

Why would they develop the bullet feeder before the case feeder

It also looks like the shell plate slightly moves in the upstroke.. Wonder what the purpose of that is?

Other than that, looks really nice. I'll stick with my LNL for now, it's going to take a Dillon 1050 for me to even consider updating...


https://youtu.be/alestMi_c9s



I don't get that either.  You can live without a bullet feeder but with no case feeder this press is all but worthless to 99% of the people that would have looked at buying one I would think.

I also wonder how they plan on rigging a case feeder to work or did I miss where they have an open station to put the case feeder?


First of all, they already had the bullet feeder developed for the RCBS Pro 2000, and Dillon presses.  (Dillon doesn't make one).  So naturally at the Shot Show they are going to show it with the feeder they had.  I for one am not in a great hurry for a case feeder that is as problematic as Hornady's is for some calibers.  I say to RCBS, take your time brethren, and get it right.

Using a Pro 2000 where I decided to invent my own case feeder, mainly to see if it could be done, I found that the bullet feeder was more important to me.  Why?  Because fitting a bullet to a case and balancing it while it moves up into the die is a hell of a lot slower than a quick manual push of a case into the shell plate.  In a nut shell, feeding bullets take more time than feeding cases and feeding cases don't risk your fingers to get bit while trying to feed and hurry.  So, I found that if I only could have ONE feeder it would be a bullet feeder.

As for "worthless to 99%", if that were true 99% of Hornady AP customers would have the case feeder.....they don't....lots don't.  But that's neither here or there, the new Pro Chuckers indeed have the case feeder station, and the case feeder subplate, and the predrilled holes for the case feeder.......and as soon as it's right.......

The following picture shows the case feeder arm near the back support (part of the sub shell plate)  The next picture shows a bunch of threaded holes....obviously to support the case feeder.  I have see zero pictures of it however.
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b356/kombayotch/Shot%20Show/Shot%20Show%202015/3E237EEE-13E7-40CB-9CA7-747EA563BE32_zpsezsqpdyr.jpghttp://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b356/kombayotch/Shot%20Show/Shot%20Show%202015/IMG_3010_zps59299595.jpg



I guess the case feeder has mounting holes so I stand corrected.  I still cannot think of a single instance though where someone had a bullet feeder but no case feeder.

With the LNL you leave your right hand on the handle and seat the bullet and load a case with your left hand which is why it works.

With the 550 you have to remove both hands but the stations are basically at the front of press so it works pretty well.

With the XL650 and the Pro Chucker though the case feed station is at the back of the press which makes it awkward to load a case manually.  That is why you hardly ever seen an XL650 without a case feeeder.

I would rather run a S1050 without a case feeder than the XL650 or the Pro Chucker since the case feed station is at the very front of the press and is easy to access and the bullet seating station is close to it as well and you could use your left hand for boh.

As always this is just my opinion so if you would rather have a bullet feeder that is fine too.

I have used all of the presses except the XL650 and the new RCBS of course.
Link Posted: 5/22/2015 8:26:49 PM EDT
[#19]
When loading .40 I use an RCBS bullet feeder on my AP. I can load as fast as I can flip a case into the shellplate. No way I could move that fast if I was placing the bullet by hand. I would love a case feeder, but it is nearly $350
and the bullet feeder was $25. Where the case feeder would be nice is running rifle as the case has to go across twice.
Link Posted: 5/22/2015 11:24:41 PM EDT
[#20]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
1.  Size/decap
2.  Swage
3.  Trim/deburr/chamfer
4.  Prime
5.  Charge
6.  Powder Check
7.  Seat
8.  Crimp


I have always felt reloading presses did not have enough stations.  It seems 8 stations are required, as a minimum, for rifle reloading.
View Quote


Continuing on, now that dinner is over,...



I have also felt there is a significant lack of integration of the various functions into the press.  For example, trimming, deburring and chamfering right on the press in real time, every case, every time, so there's no safety issue... ever.  Swaging the primer pocket is another essential function for rifle brass that should be built-in.

I've never used a case or bullet feeder and don't feel the need for them.  At the same time, I am not against them.  If one were to have those, why not automate the cycling of the press, too, rather than sitting there like a trained monkey pulling the handle and doing nothing else.
Link Posted: 5/22/2015 11:30:33 PM EDT
[#21]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Continuing on, now that dinner is over,...



I have also felt there is a significant lack of integration of the various functions into the press.  For example, trimming, deburring and chamfering right on the press in real time, every case, every time, so there's no safety issue... ever.  Swaging the primer pocket is another essential function for rifle brass that should be built-in.

I've never used a case or bullet feeder and don't feel the need for them.  At the same time, I am not against them.  If one were to have those, why not automate the cycling of the press, too, rather than sitting there like a trained monkey pulling the handle and doing nothing else.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
1.  Size/decap
2.  Swage
3.  Trim/deburr/chamfer
4.  Prime
5.  Charge
6.  Powder Check
7.  Seat
8.  Crimp


I have always felt reloading presses did not have enough stations.  It seems 8 stations are required, as a minimum, for rifle reloading.


Continuing on, now that dinner is over,...



I have also felt there is a significant lack of integration of the various functions into the press.  For example, trimming, deburring and chamfering right on the press in real time, every case, every time, so there's no safety issue... ever.  Swaging the primer pocket is another essential function for rifle brass that should be built-in.

I've never used a case or bullet feeder and don't feel the need for them.  At the same time, I am not against them.  If one were to have those, why not automate the cycling of the press, too, rather than sitting there like a trained monkey pulling the handle and doing nothing else.



The trimming on the press during the actual loading process will be a problem simply because of the size of the trimmer as well as the need to tumble rifle brass to remove the lube after sizing.

The rest though is already taken care of with the S1050B and a PW auto-drive.  I would like to check out the new RCBS though if given the chance.
Link Posted: 5/22/2015 11:49:58 PM EDT
[#22]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Continuing on, now that dinner is over,...



I have also felt there is a significant lack of integration of the various functions into the press.  For example, trimming, deburring and chamfering right on the press in real time, every case, every time, so there's no safety issue... ever.  Swaging the primer pocket is another essential function for rifle brass that should be built-in.

I've never used a case or bullet feeder and don't feel the need for them.  At the same time, I am not against them.  If one were to have those, why not automate the cycling of the press, too, rather than sitting there like a trained monkey pulling the handle and doing nothing else.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
1.  Size/decap
2.  Swage
3.  Trim/deburr/chamfer
4.  Prime
5.  Charge
6.  Powder Check
7.  Seat
8.  Crimp


I have always felt reloading presses did not have enough stations.  It seems 8 stations are required, as a minimum, for rifle reloading.


Continuing on, now that dinner is over,...



I have also felt there is a significant lack of integration of the various functions into the press.  For example, trimming, deburring and chamfering right on the press in real time, every case, every time, so there's no safety issue... ever.  Swaging the primer pocket is another essential function for rifle brass that should be built-in.

I've never used a case or bullet feeder and don't feel the need for them.  At the same time, I am not against them.  If one were to have those, why not automate the cycling of the press, too, rather than sitting there like a trained monkey pulling the handle and doing nothing else.



Call me the trained monkey them , I love my bullet feeder and when the case feeder comes out I'll get that as well.  

Link Posted: 5/22/2015 11:57:25 PM EDT
[#23]
oops double post.....in a perfect world there would be perfect presses and perfect forums that allow you to purge posts like this one.
Link Posted: 5/23/2015 12:02:30 AM EDT
[#24]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

I guess the casefeeder has mounting holes so I stand corrected.  I still cannot think of a single instance though where someone had a bulletfeeder but no case feeder.

Shucks, you just don't know enough Pro 2000 and Hornady AP people!  Lots of people who bought Hornady's with limited funds made $28 bullet feeders and were delighted by the speed increase even without the expensive case feeder.  Pro 2000 owners less than flush, like me, bought Hornady bullet feeders or the $28 variety too.  You'd be surprised how many of us there is.

With the LNL you leave your right hand on the handle and seat the bullet and load a case with your left hand which is why it works.

YES!  But that feature is also shared by both the RCBS Pro 2000 and the new Pro Chuckers!  I agree it works, and works well.  That's why RCBS felt APS was more important on the Pro 2000 than a case feeder.  As an experienced user I agree.  I would hate the back and forth across the casting thing and also agree that the so very successful 650's Need the case feeders most.  Good thing they also have the best one, so far.

The new RCBS's work just the opposite from the Pro 2000.  With the Pro2K you slide a case in at the left front and seat bullets just behind also on the left.  On the new press you slide cases in at the back left, and seat at the front left.  



With the 550 you have to remove both hands but the stations are basically at the front of press so it works pretty well.

With the XL650 and the Pro Chucker though the case feed station is at the back of the press which makes it awkward to load a case manually.  That is why you hardly ever seen an XL650 without a case feeeder.

So true with the 650, because it's on the right side of the press where you have to interrupt your strokes.....that's why Dillon was wise to include the mechanical feeding on the press, whether or not you opt to buy the collator.  You can load cases by loading tubes if you can't afford the collator.

However, on  the Pro Chucker, case feeding is on the back yes, but on the left side not on the right side.  While it sounds negative to load cases in the "back" near the press casting, it's only an inch and a half longer reach....if you can call reaching with you elbow bent 90%, reaching.  Plus you pull the case to forward into the shell plate....that's not so bad...try it on your press.


I would rather run a S1050 without a case feeder than the XL650 or the Pro Chucker since the case feed station is at the very front of the press and is easy to access and the bullet seating station is close to it as well and you could use your left hand for boh.

As always this is just my opinion so if you would rather have a bullet feeder that is fine too.

I have used all of the presses except the XL650 and the new RCBS of course.
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Wow!  You've used the Pro 2000?  I haven't used the Hornady AP, but I have used the Dillon 650 and of course the RCBS Pro 2000.  Both have their advantages.  The RCBS just fit my personal reloading needs better......and the APS priming system was king IMO.  Was, because it's obviously going extinct unless Dillon resurrects an incarnation in their new presses......wouldn't that be ironic, improbable, but ironic.

jlficken, thanks for your input!  You bring up lots of important points that needed to be discussed.  I don't know if I will buy one of the new presses yet.  They have to be enough better than the Pro 2000 to encourage me to give up the APS primer system.  That's asking a lot.  Safety gets more and more important as you get older, and the speed of preloaded strips will never be bettered by a tube system.  I'm spoiled by that.
Link Posted: 5/23/2015 2:33:12 AM EDT
[#25]
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Quoted:
The trimming on the press during the actual loading process will be a problem simply because of the size of the trimmer as well as the need to tumble rifle brass to remove the lube after sizing.
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I don't concur that removing lube after sizing is required.  I almost never do that, but to each his own.
Link Posted: 5/23/2015 2:46:16 AM EDT
[#26]
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Quoted:
Call me the trained monkey them , I love my bullet feeder and when the case feeder comes out I'll get that as well.  

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<insert sound of Howler monkey here,  oo-oo-oo >


It would be an interesting exercise to design a reloader for the home that does it all.  I wonder if there's a way to accommodate all the real requirements in a single pass.


I'll have to spend some more time looking over this new RCBS press.
Link Posted: 5/23/2015 8:49:09 AM EDT
[#27]
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Quoted:


I don't concur that removing lube after sizing is required.  I almost never do that, but to each his own.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
The trimming on the press during the actual loading process will be a problem simply because of the size of the trimmer as well as the need to tumble rifle brass to remove the lube after sizing.


I don't concur that removing lube after sizing is required.  I almost never do that, but to each his own.



I would be concerned about the lube contacting the powder/primer.
Link Posted: 5/23/2015 11:22:30 AM EDT
[#28]
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Quoted:



I would be concerned about the lube contacting the powder/primer.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The trimming on the press during the actual loading process will be a problem simply because of the size of the trimmer as well as the need to tumble rifle brass to remove the lube after sizing.


I don't concur that removing lube after sizing is required.  I almost never do that, but to each his own.



I would be concerned about the lube contacting the powder/primer.


Never been an issue with any normal lubricant.

If you're using an aerosol or spray lube the alcohol will dissolve and leave only lanolin or whatever lubricating agent you are using.
Link Posted: 5/24/2015 12:51:37 AM EDT
[#29]
Removing lube is another unrelated topic, so I won't comment here.  But back on the Pro Chuckers, someone asked about what the press does with spent primers.  I understand that they go below the plate into a tube similar to how the Pro 2000 did except that there is no cup.  One just adds a trash container below it.  It supposed to deal with them 100% though unlike the Rock Chuckers.  We will have to ask bm3 this question when he gets his Tuesday!
Link Posted: 5/24/2015 7:10:35 AM EDT
[#30]
I don't really see what is so great that would warent that price point. Im all about new stuff but No thanks I'm qwiet happy with my Hornady AP Plant. Moving on nothing to see here.
Link Posted: 5/24/2015 7:13:08 AM EDT
[#31]
I wet tumble after sizing so isn't issue
Link Posted: 5/26/2015 11:37:41 AM EDT
[#32]
The issue is the price. At $580 for the 5 station, the press will have to be markedly better than both a LnL and a 650 to get it to sell. Thats simply too high. Is this press as good as a 650 for roughly the same price or $180 more than a LnL? Probably not.

They need to have a case feeder.  While loading it allows me to concentrate on more important stuff like powder, bullet, etc. However, for case prep the case feeder is an absolute god send. Being able to prep 700+ rifle cases per hour, decapped and sized, is a big deal. I hate case prep!  Granted, not everyone wants a case feeder, but for my use, its more useful to have the case feeder over the bullet feeder.  I dont use a bullet feeder, yet. I simply cannot justify a minimal increase in my loading speed or comfort by adding a bullet feeder. Im hitting about 450-500 per hour with a case feeder, adding the bullet feeder would probably only increase my speed to 550-600. If I shot thousands of rounds a month, then Id use a Mr Bullet Feeder, which is frankly better than anything Hornady or RCBS have ever designed.

However, guys that shoot 1000's of rounds a month, a case and bullet feeder is generally mandatory. This is one of the things that makes a 650 a little better than a LnL, as the 650 does a much better job handling the cases. If the Pro Chucker cant handle cases as well as a 650, then not only will be be more expensive, but it simply will not work as well.

The 7 station is nothing more than the 5 station with a different shellplate and dieplate and a larger hopper on the powder drop.  So $230 more to step up to the 7 station?  Once again, way too high in price, considering the 5 and 7 use the same frame.  The 7 station does interest me, largely for loading pistol ammo, as I prefer to keep operations separate if possible, and the price is better than a 1050.

As a disclosure note, I use a LnL with case feeder. Other than a few small issues, I consider it to be equal to a 650 with case feeder, except for sheer volume, the 650 does that better . All mechanical devices have their good points and bad points.

RCBS better do their homework on this one. They can build a fantastic press, but if the case feeder never shows up, the price of the presses is too high, they did something wrong.
Link Posted: 5/26/2015 4:51:50 PM EDT
[#33]
Issues you bring up are on everybody's minds.  We will see.

I don't think chipping at Hornady's market will be that hard if their case feeder functions as well as Dillons, their auto-advance case jolt has disappeared, and the primer system is more trouble-free and faster to change sizes on.  Then all that remains is convincing potential buyers that the new RCBS plate "lock-n-load" is faster and more convenient than the old Hornady die"lock-n-load.  Of course the future & present Hornady owners who bought expressly for the Die lock-N-load feature, won't be moved.  Long case wobble on the Hornady was never an RCBS problem......up to now at least.

As for dethroning the Dillon 650.........you can't dethrone a god, unless it's replaced by another god.  Look how popular the 550 still is.....and it's old technology with manual advance, 4 stations, and only half a case feeder.  The Dillon name is the god.  They make great presses, but they're not perfect by any means.  They need a feature face lift.....and they can start by letting users keep their right hand on the lever.  That's why the case feeder is so important to Dillon 650 owners......it's necessary.

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Quoted:

RCBS better do their homework on this one. They can build a fantastic press, but if the case feeder never shows up, the price of the presses is too high, they did something wrong.
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The case feeder will show up, not to worry.  I'm just glad they didn't push it out with the press before it was ready.  They have a target to hit (650 reliability) and one to miss (AP un-reliability)  We shall see if they succeed.....and if the price is worth the improvements.  Again we will see.  

Personally for me!  It'll have to be really good to get me over the disappointments I already feel.  Aluminum Casting (okay, so it has still linkage arms). and going back to a pipe bomb primer system.


Link Posted: 5/26/2015 4:58:45 PM EDT
[#34]
No low primer alarm or case feeder but close to the same price as a blue press. I don't get it.
Link Posted: 5/26/2015 5:23:46 PM EDT
[#35]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Issues you bring up are on everybody's minds.  We will see.

I don't think chipping at Hornady's market will be that hard if their case feeder functions as well as Dillons, their auto-advance case jolt has disappeared, and the primer system is more trouble-free and faster to change sizes on.  Then all that remains is convincing potential buyers that the new RCBS plate "lock-n-load" is faster and more convenient than the old Hornady die"lock-n-load.  Of course the future & present Hornady owners who bought expressly for the Die lock-N-load feature, won't be moved.  Long case wobble on the Hornady was never an RCBS problem......up to now at least.

As for dethroning the Dillon 650.........you can't dethrone a god, unless it's replaced by another god.  Look how popular the 550 still is.....and it's old technology with manual advance and only half a case feeder.  The Dillon name is the god.  They make great presses, but they're not perfect by any means.  They need a feature face lift.....and they can start by letting users keep their right hand on the lever.  That's why the case feeder is so important to Dillon 650 owners......it's necessary.



The case feeder will show up, not to worry.  I'm just glad they didn't push it out with the press before it was ready.  They have a target to hit (650 reliability) and one to miss (AP un-reliability)  We shall see if they succeed.....and if the price is worth the improvements.  Again we will see.  

Personally for me!  It'll have to be really good to get me over the disappointments I already feel.  Aluminum Casting (okay, so it has still linkage arms). and going back to a pipe bomb primer system.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Quoted:
Issues you bring up are on everybody's minds.  We will see.

I don't think chipping at Hornady's market will be that hard if their case feeder functions as well as Dillons, their auto-advance case jolt has disappeared, and the primer system is more trouble-free and faster to change sizes on.  Then all that remains is convincing potential buyers that the new RCBS plate "lock-n-load" is faster and more convenient than the old Hornady die"lock-n-load.  Of course the future & present Hornady owners who bought expressly for the Die lock-N-load feature, won't be moved.  Long case wobble on the Hornady was never an RCBS problem......up to now at least.

As for dethroning the Dillon 650.........you can't dethrone a god, unless it's replaced by another god.  Look how popular the 550 still is.....and it's old technology with manual advance and only half a case feeder.  The Dillon name is the god.  They make great presses, but they're not perfect by any means.  They need a feature face lift.....and they can start by letting users keep their right hand on the lever.  That's why the case feeder is so important to Dillon 650 owners......it's necessary.

Quoted:

RCBS better do their homework on this one. They can build a fantastic press, but if the case feeder never shows up, the price of the presses is too high, they did something wrong.


The case feeder will show up, not to worry.  I'm just glad they didn't push it out with the press before it was ready.  They have a target to hit (650 reliability) and one to miss (AP un-reliability)  We shall see if they succeed.....and if the price is worth the improvements.  Again we will see.  

Personally for me!  It'll have to be really good to get me over the disappointments I already feel.  Aluminum Casting (okay, so it has still linkage arms). and going back to a pipe bomb primer system.


LnL AP is only as reliable as the guy who set it up and is using it.  Mine runs and runs, no issues.  Every single progressive press will require some tuning at some point, regardless of the color.

650 being godlike?  Nope.  Would I buy a 650?  Sure, if I was running high volume pistol, and not changing calibers.  However the 650 has its own set of issues.  Go look on Brian Enos' Forums.

RCBS needs to hit a price point somewhere between the LnL and the 650.  People are not going to turn away from Dillon when the RCBS is the same price.  Even if was a flat $500, it would price it above the LnL but below the 650 enough to create itself a market.

Aluminum casting really shouldnt be a big deal as the casting itself is pretty large, and as long as it was done right it shoudlnt be an issue.  When is the last time you seen a LnL or 650 break?  Pipe bomb primer system is only a bomb if youre not careful I guess.  The primer system on these presses is identical to the LnL, which works just fine.


Link Posted: 5/26/2015 6:01:41 PM EDT
[#36]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Issues you bring up are on everybody's minds.  We will see.

I don't think chipping at Hornady's market will be that hard if their case feeder functions as well as Dillons, their auto-advance case jolt has disappeared, and the primer system is more trouble-free and faster to change sizes on.  Then all that remains is convincing potential buyers that the new RCBS plate "lock-n-load" is faster and more convenient than the old Hornady die"lock-n-load.  Of course the future & present Hornady owners who bought expressly for the Die lock-N-load feature, won't be moved.  Long case wobble on the Hornady was never an RCBS problem......up to now at least.

As for dethroning the Dillon 650.........you can't dethrone a god, unless it's replaced by another god.  Look how popular the 550 still is.....and it's old technology with manual advance and only half a case feeder.  The Dillon name is the god.  They make great presses, but they're not perfect by any means.  They need a feature face lift.....and they can start by letting users keep their right hand on the lever.  That's why the case feeder is so important to Dillon 650 owners......it's necessary.

The case feeder will show up, not to worry.  I'm just glad they didn't push it out with the press before it was ready.  They have a target to hit (650 reliability) and one to miss (AP un-reliability)  We shall see if they succeed.....and if the price is worth the improvements.  Again we will see.  

Personally for me!  It'll have to be really good to get me over the disappointments I already feel.  Aluminum Casting (okay, so it has still linkage arms). and going back to a pipe bomb primer system.
View Quote


As a LnL AP owner, I mostly agree w/Kaldors comments, just a differing level of 'degree' on the LnL case feeder.  Out of the box, Dillon's is better for most calibers, due to the caliber-specific parts - the collators are identical to the point that they can exchange feed plates, but the LnL is generic + adjustments while the Dillon has some caliber specific pieces which make it less 'fiddly.'  After creating some case funnel inserts for the LnL feed funnel, and a couple of other minor tweaks/changes, I haven't had any issues with my LnL AP case feeder in some time now.  To be fair here, Hornady has made some silent updates to their case feeder, and they at least no longer need to be clocked/rotated to correct case drops...but they really could make the out of box experience for their case feeder better with caliber-specific case handling parts, or at least funnel inserts.

I don't agree, however, with some of your (GWis') other issues, at least not as outlined:
1.  auto-advance case jolt - is same or worse on the Dillon vs the LnL AP - this is no a LnL specific issue by any means (which is how I read your comment).
2.  primer system - once you do the 'once and done' things to the LnL, I'd prefer it over Dillons.  (sand primer shuttle flat, slight bevel on leading edge, add slight chamfer to primer pickup hole, time properly).  
3.  'long case wobble' - not sure I'm aware of this one.  I load .308 on my LnL AP - how long do I need to get to run into this 'issue' ??

I agree in general on the smooth auto-advance comment, in that it *may* turn out to be better to either Dillon or Hornady's current versions.  Time will tell ,and I'm curious to see if there's any adjustment to it, to allow for inevitable wearing of parts, slightly out of spec shell plates, etc.
I also agree with the need of Dillon to do a facelift already, and bring out the 'next generation' of their presses.  Competition is good (for us), assuming the new RCBS offering(s) make(s) a dent to either Dillon or Hornady.  

I don't see the Dillon toolheads vs RCBS toolhead (plate, whatever you'd prefer to call it) vs LnL bushings as a significant differentiator at this point - swapping calibers is painless and fast among any of them (presumably w/RCBS plates as well), so saving 30-60 seconds just isn't worth much on a caliber change across any of the 3.  

Does RCBS offer a micrometer insert for their Uniflows?  (random Q - I'd absolutely miss them from my LnL AP)

RCBS is already crippling their competitiveness on pricing + the unwillingness to sell the 7 station plates w/out a powder measure, so I guess we'll see what there is to see.  Of course, their case feeder price will also play into the picture, making it a better or 'even worse' deal overall.
I'm not expecting it to make an 'instant impact' of any kind, given the pricing - it's possible the 7 station might become desirable, but they'll have to back off on their unwillingness to sell extra plates w/out a Uniflow before I see that happening, or add a swager or something else that really has it compete w/the 1050 for less.  

Interested to see what comes of it, either way.
Link Posted: 5/26/2015 8:41:32 PM EDT
[#37]
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Quoted:
No low primer alarm or case feeder but close to the same price as a blue press. I don't get it.
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A low primer alarm isn't as essential as it may seem.  I have the capability of making my own for my Hornady LnL, and I haven't seen a need for it yet.

As for the case feeder, that'll show up when they finally start shipping presses - and probably have the same kind of "wait for it" introduction as the presses themselves.
Link Posted: 5/26/2015 8:43:12 PM EDT
[#38]
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Quoted:

A low primer alarm isn't as essential as it may seem.  I have the capability of making my own for my Hornady LnL, and I haven't seen a need for it yet.

As for the case feeder, that'll show up when they finally start shipping presses - and probably have the same kind of "wait for it" introduction as the presses themselves.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
No low primer alarm or case feeder but close to the same price as a blue press. I don't get it.

A low primer alarm isn't as essential as it may seem.  I have the capability of making my own for my Hornady LnL, and I haven't seen a need for it yet.

As for the case feeder, that'll show up when they finally start shipping presses - and probably have the same kind of "wait for it" introduction as the presses themselves.



The white stick in the primer feeding tube has worked well for me.
Link Posted: 5/26/2015 8:43:54 PM EDT
[#39]
A member was potentially receiving one today, no? Maybe he'll be able to do an unboxing for us. I'm still not seeing a market niche but that doesn't make a new product reveal uninteresting.
Link Posted: 5/26/2015 10:19:02 PM EDT
[#40]
ok, its in and kinda set up.

I will do a pro and con later this week.

First impression is pretty damn sweet .



edit , its what the pro2000 should have been.
Link Posted: 5/26/2015 10:53:26 PM EDT
[#41]
Here's a pic of the priming sys

Link Posted: 5/26/2015 11:07:18 PM EDT
[#42]
Awesome man.  Keep us posted.  I see a couple things I really want to like about this press, but Im not dropping $800 for the 7 stage unless its what I want.
Link Posted: 5/26/2015 11:11:53 PM EDT
[#43]
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The priming system looks loosely based on the S1050 to me which is a good step forward.
Link Posted: 5/26/2015 11:23:38 PM EDT
[#44]
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Quoted:


The priming system looks loosely based on the S1050 to me which is a good step forward.
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Quoted:


The priming system looks loosely based on the S1050 to me which is a good step forward.


Yeah, I could see myself modifying my LnL with a very similar area for debris to be allowed to leave the primer slide.
Link Posted: 5/26/2015 11:27:15 PM EDT
[#45]
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Quoted:


The priming system looks loosely based on the S1050 to me which is a good step forward.
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Quoted:


The priming system looks loosely based on the S1050 to me which is a good step forward.

The pic doesn't show the return sping because I didn't have it on yet.

I did prime some brass , ran very smooth .
Link Posted: 5/26/2015 11:36:25 PM EDT
[#46]
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Quoted:

I don't agree, however, with some of your (GWis') other issues, at least not as outlined:
1.  auto-advance case jolt - is same or worse on the Dillon vs the LnL AP - this is no a LnL specific issue by any means (which is how I read your comment).
2.  primer system - once you do the 'once and done' things to the LnL, I'd prefer it over Dillons.  (sand primer shuttle flat, slight bevel on leading edge, add slight chamfer to primer pickup hole, time properly).  
3.  'long case wobble' - not sure I'm aware of this one.  I load .308 on my LnL AP - how long do I need to get to run into this 'issue' ??
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Quoted:

I don't agree, however, with some of your (GWis') other issues, at least not as outlined:
1.  auto-advance case jolt - is same or worse on the Dillon vs the LnL AP - this is no a LnL specific issue by any means (which is how I read your comment).
2.  primer system - once you do the 'once and done' things to the LnL, I'd prefer it over Dillons.  (sand primer shuttle flat, slight bevel on leading edge, add slight chamfer to primer pickup hole, time properly).  
3.  'long case wobble' - not sure I'm aware of this one.  I load .308 on my LnL AP - how long do I need to get to run into this 'issue' ??


1.  My comment could have been clearer:  Agreed....they all pop grains of powder at times.  I was actually attempting to refer to all of the current presses, including the Pro 2000.
2.  That too I agree with....as for up to now primer systems, IMO, the Pro 2000 is #1, Hornady #2, and the Dillon with its disk last.  The Pro 2K is a 10 second changeover to the other size primer, and it also is safest and fastest (using preloaded strips).  I think the new RCBS presses are going to be hard pressed to better #1 or #2.  If they do....wonderful.
3.  I only repeated what I read in several Hornady AP threads asking for help on the wobble matter....in this and 2 other forums.

Quoted: I don't see the Dillon toolheads vs RCBS toolhead (plate, whatever you'd prefer to call it) vs LnL bushings as a significant differentiator at this point - swapping calibers is painless and fast among any of them (presumably w/RCBS plates as well), so saving 30-60 seconds just isn't worth much on a caliber change across any of the 3.  

Probably not a "differentiator".....for me anyway, however the plate pins are gone...won't miss them much.

Does RCBS offer a micrometer insert for their Uniflows?  (random Q - I'd absolutely miss them from my LnL AP)

They do....I love 'em and they came with the Pro 2000.  However they don't fit the new Quick Change Uniflow!  RCBS has another idea.  Rather than change mic settings, now they want us to buy separate instant change, snap-in metering rods preset for each powder!......somes are going to love that......somes are going to scream foul.....

RCBS is already crippling their competitiveness on pricing + the unwillingness to sell the 7 station plates w/out a powder measure, so I guess we'll see what there is to see.  Of course, their case feeder price will also play into the picture, making it a better or 'even worse' deal overall.
I'm not expecting it to make an 'instant impact' of any kind, given the pricing - it's possible the 7 station might become desirable, but they'll have to back off on their unwillingness to sell extra plates w/out a Uniflow before I see that happening, or add a swager or something else that really has it compete w/the 1050 for less.  

Interested to see what comes of it, either way.


Yup.....same here....will be interesting....what I highlighted in purple is what stopped me from getting one to try.  I load many calibers.....that stinks.....and I already have 3 Uniflows, I sure don't need one for each caliber.

Keep it coming bm3!.....looks very interesting!  Christmas in May!  I'm jealous....I love to wring out new toys!
Link Posted: 5/27/2015 9:32:49 AM EDT
[#47]
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Quoted:


1.  My comment could have been clearer:  Agreed....they all pop grains of powder at times.  I was actually attempting to refer to all of the current presses, including the Pro 2000.
2.  That too I agree with....as for up to now primer systems, IMO, the Pro 2000 is #1, Hornady #2, and the Dillon with its disk last.  The Pro 2K is a 10 second changeover to the other size primer, and it also is safest and fastest (using preloaded strips).  I think the new RCBS presses are going to be hard pressed to better #1 or #2.  If they do....wonderful.
3.  I only repeated what I read in several Hornady AP threads asking for help on the wobble matter....in this and 2 other forums.



Yup.....same here....will be interesting....what I highlighted in purple is what stopped me from getting one to try.  I load many calibers.....that stinks.....and I already have 3 Uniflows, I sure don't need one for each caliber.

Keep it coming bm3!.....looks very interesting!  Christmas in May!  I'm jealous....I love to wring out new toys!
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Quoted:
Quoted:

I don't agree, however, with some of your (GWis') other issues, at least not as outlined:
1.  auto-advance case jolt - is same or worse on the Dillon vs the LnL AP - this is no a LnL specific issue by any means (which is how I read your comment).
2.  primer system - once you do the 'once and done' things to the LnL, I'd prefer it over Dillons.  (sand primer shuttle flat, slight bevel on leading edge, add slight chamfer to primer pickup hole, time properly).  
3.  'long case wobble' - not sure I'm aware of this one.  I load .308 on my LnL AP - how long do I need to get to run into this 'issue' ??


1.  My comment could have been clearer:  Agreed....they all pop grains of powder at times.  I was actually attempting to refer to all of the current presses, including the Pro 2000.
2.  That too I agree with....as for up to now primer systems, IMO, the Pro 2000 is #1, Hornady #2, and the Dillon with its disk last.  The Pro 2K is a 10 second changeover to the other size primer, and it also is safest and fastest (using preloaded strips).  I think the new RCBS presses are going to be hard pressed to better #1 or #2.  If they do....wonderful.
3.  I only repeated what I read in several Hornady AP threads asking for help on the wobble matter....in this and 2 other forums.

Quoted: I don't see the Dillon toolheads vs RCBS toolhead (plate, whatever you'd prefer to call it) vs LnL bushings as a significant differentiator at this point - swapping calibers is painless and fast among any of them (presumably w/RCBS plates as well), so saving 30-60 seconds just isn't worth much on a caliber change across any of the 3.  

Probably not a "differentiator".....for me anyway, however the plate pins are gone...won't miss them much.

Does RCBS offer a micrometer insert for their Uniflows?  (random Q - I'd absolutely miss them from my LnL AP)

They do....I love 'em and they came with the Pro 2000.  However they don't fit the new Quick Change Uniflow!  RCBS has another idea.  Rather than change mic settings, now they want us to buy separate instant change, snap-in metering rods preset for each powder!......somes are going to love that......somes are going to scream foul.....

RCBS is already crippling their competitiveness on pricing + the unwillingness to sell the 7 station plates w/out a powder measure, so I guess we'll see what there is to see.  Of course, their case feeder price will also play into the picture, making it a better or 'even worse' deal overall.
I'm not expecting it to make an 'instant impact' of any kind, given the pricing - it's possible the 7 station might become desirable, but they'll have to back off on their unwillingness to sell extra plates w/out a Uniflow before I see that happening, or add a swager or something else that really has it compete w/the 1050 for less.  

Interested to see what comes of it, either way.


Yup.....same here....will be interesting....what I highlighted in purple is what stopped me from getting one to try.  I load many calibers.....that stinks.....and I already have 3 Uniflows, I sure don't need one for each caliber.

Keep it coming bm3!.....looks very interesting!  Christmas in May!  I'm jealous....I love to wring out new toys!


Yeah, that whole buying another powder drop thing is horses__t for the 7 stage.  Just drives the cost of the press up even more for changeovers.  Takes what?  30 seconds to swap the funnel and adjust the height on a powder drop on a caliber change over?

Primer change overs for the LnL take about a minute.  Unhook spring, remove slide, remove and replace punch, replace slide, change tube size.  Im thinking the ProChucker will be about the same.  Powder pop Im thinking will be low, but who knows.

Case shake and tipping seems to be more predominant for for .223 for me than any other caliber.  This is due to the relatively tall height of the case in combination with its smallish base.  Then the case has to jump the case retainer spring as it gets pushed into the shellplate on the LnL.  Not the greatest design.  You can minimize case shake and powder loss pretty easily.  Just need to adjust it out on the pawls, and maybe shim the drive hub up a couple thou.  This is one area where the LnL is a great press because of half indexing.  I have no issue with any other cartridge, even 9mm with a good charge.

And yeah, pre sized metering rods, ef that.  I use the micro adjuster on my Hornady drops.  Stupid simple.  Check my book, dial it in, check the charge, make small adjustment, and load.  Dont try to reinvent the wheel.
Link Posted: 5/27/2015 9:36:00 AM EDT
[#48]
interesting, but w/out a swage rod like the 1050 and case feeder, by the time you add a casefeeder etc... you are probably north of 1k, and getting too close to 1050 territory to make me question the appeal of this press over the 1050.  I do appreciate RCBS bringing new products to market as the competition should help us all.
Link Posted: 5/27/2015 11:17:17 AM EDT
[#49]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
interesting, but w/out a swage rod like the 1050 and case feeder, by the time you add a casefeeder etc... you are probably north of 1k, and getting too close to 1050 territory to make me question the appeal of this press over the 1050.  I do appreciate RCBS bringing new products to market as the competition should help us all.
View Quote


Okay, I understand all the knee jerk reactions......I've done plenty of that myself as you may have read already.  But on these presses, we need to wait and see.  The free market place is a wonderful thing.....nothing's set in stone, not the intitial prices nor initial policies like the silly powder measure/tool head combo requirement.  That said, I hear you comparing the P.C. 7 to the 1050 as have many of us.  I don't believe the P.C. 7 was aimed there.  I think it was aimed at the 5 station presses, where we often feel we really could use another hole or two  for pistol loading.  It ain't going to have a swage rod in a conventional ram up to stationary dies.....just not feasible.  Somebody tried that for the 650, and Dillon reacted with a warning that that method would void the warranty.

Yes the casefeeder is going to add serious dollars.....we can't get around that on any press.  You want bullet and case feeders?  You pay for it.  Typical Price of a 1050 set up for bear is, according to Dillon around $1892.80, and that's with no bullet feeder and one caliber!  Start in on quick caliber changes then you add $300 a pop (including another case feeder plate).  So you gots to pay to play.

On Dillon's 650 page, they show a pretty press with options and state, "Typical price as shown with optional accessories is $1128.55"!  Yup north of 1k.  No bullet feeder there either. and no caliber changes.  Progressives are pricy.  But then one says the Hornady is way cheaper than that!  Yup!  Until you add case and bullet feeders.  Then even the cheap one gets north of 1K fast.  What an Ammo Plant cost?  At Midway USA  $1,200 plus shipping.  Then you gotta add caliber changes including case & bullet feeder parts.

One thing I've personally discovered is that time heals the wounds to the pocket book!  The trick is...you have to space the raids out a little!  Take bm3 for example......he went for the Pro Chucker 5.  Cheaper than the 7 to be sure.  But he's still in line for a 7 down the road and he won't have to buy another press!  Just the kit.  When his pocket book heals up, and it will, he can decide if he wants more, and it will hurt less.
Link Posted: 5/27/2015 12:36:09 PM EDT
[#50]
Has anyone tallied the cost of caliber conversions for this thing, would include caliber conversions for the case feeder.

I know the caliber conversions on the 1050 are scary-expensive.  The tool head alone is $250.  The cost is much less on the 650 and the 550B is so expensive, it does not make much sense not to buy new tool heads for each cartridge.

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