I'm in the process of working up some loads for a couple of my semi-auto .308's.  I've compiled the following start and max loads using various printed manuals as well as online load data from the powder manufacturers.  Most of my manuals are at least 7-8 years old and thus don't include data for the newer powders or even some of the bullet selections.  

In some instances, especially where the available data indicated a particularly low starting charge and a wide range between max and min, I upped the start charge by 1-2 grains (i.e. the manual says 38.0 gr. start, 45.0 gr. max, I changed the start to 39.0gr. or 40.0 gr).  I did this because I have dealt with working up loads where the starting load wouldn't even cycle the action on my AR.  As you can see from the chart below, I have a lot of rounds I want to test and would like to minimize pulling bullets as much as possible without sacrificing safety.  Where the published min/max range was small, I stuck with the indicated starting load.  As a standard safety precaution, all cartridges will be fired starting from least powder charge to greatest.  

What I would like to know from the hive is, do my posted min and max loads look reasonable for a given component combination?  As noted above, my manuals aren't the most current so I had to make some logic leaps to define a range for each bullet and powder combo.  FYI, where the max load seems high, the data probably came from the Hodgden/IMR website.  Also, should I bother with trying to load any .308 with IMR 4350?  I found some data for it in some of my books, but IMR doesn't list data for it in .308 and it seemed hit or miss in the manuals.  It seems every load from start to max will be compressed, plus IMR describes the powder as suitable for the short magnums.  I am looking to get the best accuracy first and the highest velocity second and if 4350 isn't ideal I would rather just scratch it from the list.  

Speaking of which, both accuracy and velocity are priorities for my intended applications, but accuracy comes first.  Also, my chart shows CCI 200's as the primer but I also have Wolf large rifle and Winchester larger rifle primers at my disposal.  I'm trying to find Federal 210M, but no luck so far (at least not at a price point I am willing to pay).  If anyone has a favorite load using the listed components, please feel free to share that as well.  The rifles I will be loading for are a LaRue Tactical 18" OBR and 16" PredatOBR.  Thanks in advance for any input.

The data:

*Indicates a compressed charge.

I won't be working up all loads listed.  IMR 4350 has already been cut from my list based on further research and input here.  I have no plans to work up all these loads at once either.  I will start with the 180 gr. Accubonds because those are what I will be using for hunting in a couple weeks.  Some of the different bullets will probably even get cut.  For example, I have a lot of Nosler 175 gr. CC's and Hornady 178 gr. BTHP Match bullets.  If my guns like these then I see no point in buying more of the even more expensive SMK's and A-max's.

I am currently in possession of all the components listed, so availability isn't a huge deal.  Brass as mentioned will be .308 Win Lapua.  Where does this fall on the scale of H2O capacity?  I keep reading that Winchester has the highest internal case capacity.  How does Lapua compare?

I reload on a single stage and weigh out my charges on an RCBS Chargemaster, so flow characteristics aren't that important at this time.  

My research indicates that 4064, 4895, 8208-XBR, Tac, and Reloader 15 are all great for .308.  Narrowing things down from there will require input from more experienced reloaders.  I think it is safe to say that they will all be accurate.  Which will provide the best velocity?  Which is most temperature stable?  I do live in Arizona and it would be nice to avoid having to work up separate loads for winter and summer use.



I'm not new to reloading, but I am new to reloading for precision.  Previously, all of my reloading consisted of either loading pistol ammo or cranking out 55 gr. FMJ in .223 that was suitably accurate and stiff enough to reliably cycle the actions on my AR's.

This is a timely post.  I want a hunting load for deer this year and possibly elk in the future.  I was just running numbers through Strelok and the 180's will be crawling out of a 16" barrel.  Midway's product description claims the 180 Accubonds will perform at 1800+ FPS, but I still don't like how slow they will be out of a 16" barrel.  I may skip them for .308 and focus on the 165 BT's this go around.  I have also been researching Mk 319 Mod 0 and and thinking about trying to develop something with a similar set of parameters (performance out of a 16" barrel) using commercially available bullets (125 gr. SST's and/or 125 gr. BT's), but I don't have either of those on hand at the moment and would be concerned about wind drift for longer shots (500-600 yards).  That's a topic for another thread though as I just don't have the time to experiment with it right now.

I won't be using match/target bullets for hunting.  Those are on the chart because I will be working up loads for them to use in the same guns for target shooting.

Could you please re-post the picture here?  Also, what distance did you make the shot from?

On another note, I loaded up some test rounds for the 165 Ballistic Tips using RL-15, TAC, and 8208-XBR.  I'm going to try to test them out tomorrow to see which I like the best.

Okay, I assembled some test loads and fired them for groups today.  Please give me your input on the different loads.  Before we get to the groups, allow me to set the stage with some background.  First off, as you can see, I am not a great shot.  Conditions were a bit windy, but that only explains part of it.  I started with a clean barrel (first target is four, 5 round groups to confirm zero and foul the bore).  While firing the test groups, I didn't wait 10 minutes between groups or anything like that but I would pick up brass and jot down notes to let the barrel cool a little before the next group.  In general, the muzzle was cool enough to grab and hold before firing the next group.  

The platform is a LaRue Tactical 7.62 PredatOBR equipped with a Vortex Viper PST 4-16x50 FFP and fired from an assault pack with a sand sock supporting the rifle's stock.  Each group pictured is 5 rounds, except for two groups where round(s) landed off paper as noted.  Each group was shot in the sequence posted, starting from lowest to highest powder charge.  All targets were shot at 100 yards.  The grid spacing on the targets is 0.5".  All charges properly cycled my rifle, except some of the lighter TAC loads failed to lock the bolt back on the last round.  All test loads consisted of the charge weight and powder indicated on the target, Lapua brass,  CCI 200 LR primer, and a blemished Nosler 165 gr. Ballistic Tip seated to a COAL of 2.800" + or - 0.003".  I don't have a comparator so I can't measure length to o-give but all bullets were seated with a Redding competition seating die so they should be pretty consistent.  Each charge was individually weighed on an RCBS 5-0-5 beam scale.

Here is the first target.  These four groups were shot with factory ADI Australian Outback loaded with 165 gr. Sierra Game Kings.  This should give you an idea of how well (or poorly as it were) I shoot.



The next two targets are from the test loads using Alliant Reloader 15.  From my reading of the groups, my rifle doesn't like RL-15 at all. (Note: the first RL-15 target was shot upside down as posted.  Second Note:  I adjusted the scope up a few clicks after the 41.0 gr. group and before the 41.5 gr. group.  I think that was the only adjustment I made while shooting the test groups.)





The following two targets are from the test loads using IMR 8208-XBR.  I'm not sure how to interpret these loads.  Some of the groups look promising but have one or two flyers that open them up.  40.5 gr. to 42.0 gr. look like they may warrant more investigation.  What say the more experienced reloaders here?





These last two targets feature the Ramshot TAC test loads.  To my untrained eye, TAC looks to be the most promising of the 3 powders tested.  Most charge weights look good with a flyer here or there that may or may not have been me.  





Now, to my questions.  How would you proceed with load development if these were your results?  Given .308 Win case capacity, is it worth trying to fine tune a given load range by using smaller increments between charges?  If so, what increment should I use?  Also, is there any information that can be gleaned from the shape of the groups?  Some string vertically, some horizontal, others look like a shotgun pattern.  I'll take credit for the flyers, but I don't think the vertical and horizontal stringing was me, so what does it mean?  How much impact will the wind have on a bullet like the 165 gr. BT at 100 yards?  Do barrel harmonics cause side to side drift or just vertical?  One more thought:  I didn't encounter any overt pressure signs.  Should I consider hotter charges?  One of the powders (8208-XBR I think) was kicking the cases a fair ways at the higher end but other than that, everything seemed normal.  The cases were actually hitting the deflector, which isn't a common experience for me with this rifle when shooting factory match ammo.  As a lefty with the 7.62 PredatOBR, I'm used to factory loads missing the deflector after being ejected and bouncing off my cheek and landing on my right shoulder.  

I'll probably think of some more questions later, but that should do it for now.

I forgot to get a pic of the rifle at the range, so this one will have to do.

Did some more testing with 4064 and TAC at 325 yards but my targets were too small and I ran low on time for that data to be really useful.

On another note, can anyone help me get a velocity estimate from a 16" barrel using 43 gr., 44 gr., and 45., of TAC behind a 165 BT?  I've read people say .308 loses about 50 fps per inch of barrel, but if that is correct and I start with the velocities listed in my manuals, my velocity would be under 2400 FPS.  That seems pretty low.  According to Strelok, 2400 FPS at the muzzle would give me over 70 inches of drop at 500 yards.  Should I have picked a lighter bullet for hunting to get a flatter trajectory?

A chrono is on the list, but unfortunately hasn't made it to the top yet.




Maximizing velocity out of a short barrel .308 is something I plan on working on once I get more experience working up loads.  Maintaining accuracy would of course be a requirement.  Am I correct in assuming that a faster burning powder would be ideal for such a goal?  

As for shooting a deer at 500 yards, I think with a good bullet, good dope, an accurate rifle, and ideal conditions, 500 isn't much of a stretch for a good, clean kill.  Of course, if we're talking about grandpa's 30-30 off-hand against a running buck and a 15 mph cross-wind, well that's a different scenario.

16" LaRue Tactical 7.62 PredatOBR w/ Vortex Viper PST 4-16x50 FFP.  My load was a 165 gr. Nosler Ballistic Tip atop 44.5 gr. of TAC and a CCI 200 primer in Lapua brass.  The bullet entered the base of his neck on the right side and exited about 3" or 4" down from his ear on the left.


Full details:  http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_2_219/255292_.html&page=1




Hunting varies a lot from one area to another.  Terrain, vegetation, animal habits, etc., all combine to make different areas unique.  Read my thread above to see how hunting in my AO might be different than yours.  I ended up shooting him at 345 yards.  Could I have gotten closer?  Perhaps, but the closer I got the steeper the terrain became and the more noise I made.