Hey everyone,

I've been reloading for a few years now.  I started off with 9mm and then added 223 a couple years ago, I load on a Dillion 550 and am trying to make more consistent and accurate loads for long range.  I use Redding dies, I just have the plane jane set, neck size, full length and seating, not the competition or bushing dies.  For measuring stuff I have a good set of digital calipers and use the Hornady comparator that hooks on the caliper, it measures to the datum and also has the inserts to measure to the ogive.

In my rifle a fired LC case measures 1.459-1.460"  with the Hornaday, that same case was about 1.454" new.  I set the FL sizing die up to get as close to 1.457" as I can, I've noticed that if a case isn't lubed up as well as the others it will come out measuring a little long, if I relube the case and run it through the FL die again it comes out the right size.  I'm guessing this is caused by the expander ball pulling the shoulder back out?  If this is the case how can I ensure this doesn't happen short of re running all of them? Is more lube on all the cases the answer?

Also, what the heck is my Hornady comparator measuring? I thought it was to the datum on the shoulder but looking at saami drawings 1.4636" in the minimum.  I checked the inside of the comparator insert and its .3287" where I think its supposed to be .330", regardless if the hole is too small my measurements should be longer not shorter.

I only load for this one rifle at the moment, should I try to set the shoulder back less than the .003-4" I am now in the hopes of better brass life and better accuracy, or is .001" worth worrying about?

Secondly, I feel like I need to improve my trimming, chamfering and deburring practices.  I use the lee trimmer pictured below in a cordless drill, I leave the case in the shell holder and use a VLD chamfer tool and deburring tool held by hand.  The process is tedious and time consuming but I also wonder how much an inconsistent amount of chamfer could be costing me.


Also, I have some cases that were resized too much.  I took the die out of the press to clean and the lock ring must have moved, I have some cases that measure 1.447-1.449". How was the die able to resize the cases so much?  Shouldn't the die screwed all the way down only be able to resize the case to the saami minimum?  Granted I don't really know what the numbers I am getting relate to in regards to the actual saami specs but sizing the case .007" smaller than a new piece of brass seems excessive.

Thanks to everyone for any and all help and advice.

What do you consider long range?  What bullets do you shoot?  What are you getting now for accuracy?

The number one thing you can do for case prep is to deburr flash holes. Nothing else will have as profound an impact as that one step.

I suppose I should have provided this info, I left it out thinking my post was already long winded enough.  I like to shoot steel at 400-600y but will take shots at the further targets too, I use the 77gr nosler or smk most of the time along with the 75gr hornady sometimes.  I load lighter bullets for closer stuff too.  I've found a 55gr amax to be the most accurate and can get MOA sized 5rd groups at 100 most of the time, I shot about a 3" group at 200 the other day.

The other day I was shooting 55gr amax, 25.0gr WC844, 1x fired LC brass and a CCI 41 primer, I chronoed a few of the groups and for example the nice group @200 was; 2777fps avg, ES 45fps and SD of 20.39.  I also shot two groups over the chrono with a load I use to shoot further distances, same brass and primer as above but with 24.0gr RL-15 and a 77gr nosler CC.  I shot the groups at 100y, my target was just a paper bag stapled to a couple wood survey posts and it was a little windy so my groups may have been slightly better, I've shot this load in different brass for 100y groups once before and got just over 1 MOA, my groups were just under 1.6" and 1.9" the smaller group was 2554fps avg, 78fps ES and a SD of 31.44.

I didn't sort the brass in any way other than making sure it was all LC, I prepped the cases they way I described in my original post. I use a RCBS chargemaster to throw and weigh the powder charges, I double check it from time to time on a lee balance beam scale and have found it to be really accurate with both powders.

Thanks for the info and suggestions.

I definitely need to upgrade my trimmer, anything to speed up the process and make it more uniform is essential.  I haven't given the primer pockets or flash holes any attention other than taking out the crimp and I run a Lee universal decapping die in the first station when loading, just to make sure the flash hole is clear of any tumbling media or other debris.

I've always cringed at the price of the Giraud but it looks like the W.FT. style trimmer that chucks in a drill and measures off the shoulder may be the ticket.  It looks like there are a few companies making this style of trimmer.

Hornady comparator    http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/lid=12897/GunTechdetail/Gauging_Success___Minimum_Headspace_and_Maximum_COL          The deck height at each station of a shell plate may be different or under size.        Brass for accuracy- All from the same lot/brand. Sort by weight and make groups in the  .3 gr range. Uniform  the flash hole. Note that not all flash hole are the same size. Match grade may be smaller.

You might want to consider the Frankford Arsenal Case Prep System if you don't mind spending a little over $150 for it.  It trims, chamfers, deburrs and, if you replace the primer pocket cleaner with an RCBS reamer, removes the crimp.  I'm sure this sounds really slow to a lot of people, but I can easily prep 50 cases in 20 minutes or so.  The trimmer takes a few minutes to properly set up, but once it's done, you can forget about it.  The best part is the consistency that it gives.

Lubing the INSIDE of your case necks WILL make sizing more consistent.  RCBS makes a set of neck lube brushes for this task, and it doesn't take much to make the expander ball slide instead of drag.

Lee's case trimmer is OK, but as dryflash3 says, you could do a lot better.  I have a Giraud (old style) trimmer and it not only trims and deburs/chamfers consistently, it's FAST  It just takes a little setup and you're off.  Giraud's new "Tri Way" trimmer is $90 on Doug's site, and does one caliber very well.  If you're not going to be doing a bunch of different calibers, the Tri Way is almost certainly THE way to go.

I don't drag any neck expanders back through the case. When loading for my AR my brass is run across my progressive with three dies in place. Universal decap, then a Redding Type S full length bushing die with the expander ball removed. Two stations later the cases pass into a Lyman neck sizing die with the carbide expander ball. The neck die is raised enough that the OD of the neck is not touched. Run like this the neck is worked minimally and never has a force pulling on it. For me the bushing die is a must. Most factory FL dies reduce the neck diameter excessively, by several thousandths. With my setup the expander ball is only having to enlarge the neck about .002". This system makes the necks last longer as they are worked the minimum amount. I would guess that I will lose more cases to primer pocket issues than split necks.

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For loading on a progressive, I like this. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Broke it up for easier reading. Makes good sense.

OP: The Hornady tool is called a "comparator" for a reason. It compares one thing to another. (fired case to sized case) the actual measurement has nothing to do with the dimensions on the blue print.

Also: Concentricity between case body and loaded bullet is a key factor in accuracy. I don't know how effective correcting it is for AR use though because of the violence of the automatic action.

I'll have to pull off my shell holder and take a look.  I imagine its fine but I'd like to know for sure, regardless I'll be keeping an eye on how the FL die is set.  Are the cases that got sized .010-.013" smaller than fired brass and .007" smaller than new even safe to load?  I don't want to take a chance on a case head separation but I also wouldn't want to scrap the brass needlessly.



Im liking this setup too, think I'll duplicate it.  Any idea if the Lyman carbide expander will fit in a Redding die?

Thanks again for everyones help.

I'm

I know lyman makes it to fit an RCBS die.

I have the Hornady comparator. I tried it on 308 and it was reading .007 too low on brass that gaged minimum in a Dillon cartridge case gage. I had a Forster 1.633 headspace gage handy, and checked it with the comparator. It indicated 1.626 so once again .007 off. I re-zeroed the caliper so that it indicated correctly with the  headspace gage and can now get absolute readings which make sense.

And, although headspace is theoretically best measured at the datum point, I still prefer to use a drop-in gage as a final check. In the real world there are variations in shoulder contour, etc which would not be detected by checking only at that one point on the shoulder.

I wish the bushings provided were slightly undersized so that they could be zeroed with a chamfer tool.

What kind of accuracy are you getting right now? What range do you want to shoot at? If your goal is more consistent ammunition, I would suggest that you look to that goal instead of adding steps to your reloading process that may be unnecessary.

Not a bad place to learn about long range .223 brass prep.





http://www.6mmbr.com/jgcaseprep.html



ETA:



Here's some good info on the .223 round from them too:



http://www.6mmbr.com/223Rem.html