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Posted: 9/11/2014 2:54:47 AM EDT
[#1]
I load 23.8 - 24 grains Tac ( test load with each batch but it will be between these weights) with a light crimp in Winchester brass. shoots sub moa out of a 18 in 1\7 twist mod 0 Noveske I get the same results with smk and nosler 77 gr bullets 2.260
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Posted: 9/11/2014 8:01:03 AM EDT
[#2]
I shoot 24TAC with various brass with 75gr Hornady HPBT at about 2734fps out of a 20" 1/8 RRA national match upper. I would think the 77gr Sierras would be similar. But, always check you loads in your own gun before accepting someone else's recipe.
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Posted: 9/11/2014 12:17:29 PM EDT
[#3]
Start at 23.0 and don't exceed 24.0 with any of the following powders and you'll find great accuracy somewhere in that range;
Varget RE-15 VihtaVuori N140 |
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Posted: 9/11/2014 12:41:09 PM EDT
[#4]
I've not been able to duplicate mk262 velocities.
You can get good loads with TAC, XBR, AA2520, N140, Re15, AR Comp, Varget, and H4895. I use 23.2 of XBR. That's my go to load for Highpower. |
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Posted: 9/11/2014 1:29:23 PM EDT
[#5]
CFE gives good velocity with 77gr bullets. And it seems to be more accurate at higher load levels.
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Posted: 9/11/2014 3:44:59 PM EDT
[#6]
Consider that MK 262 comes with crimp primed brass. Consider that Non-canister grades of powder are used by BHA. Not available to normal distribution channels. Always look at primers when using TAC. The old Ramshot data used CCI 450 and a CCI 41 would be the mil spec version. My personal experience with TAC has always had best results with the CCI 450
55gr Ballistic Tips 69gr OTM Nosler and Sierra 75gr OTM Hornady 77gr OTM Nosler and Sierra No crimp is really necessary...if you have good brass. Remember the first lots of MK 262 was a Nosler bullet, as Sierra early only was not producing a cannelured bullet. |
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Posted: 9/11/2014 4:51:00 PM EDT
[#7]
77 nosler, 24.6 TAC, KVM223 primer, LC brass = sub 1/2 MOA capable in my Les Baer. It is definitely sub MOA all day as well (posted in the thread), and only needs 3.2 MILS to hit at 520 yards (that's pretty fast...).
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Posted: 9/11/2014 5:35:42 PM EDT
[#8]
RRA Varmint 18" .200 average 5 shot group bench rest 100 yards.
LOAD 1.750 case length 2.260 OAL Sierra 77 BTHP 24.0 grains of TAC CCI 400 primer crimped average 2743 FPS This is the best performance I have achieved. The load in the hands of a competent shooter will probably do better. |
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Posted: 9/11/2014 6:17:55 PM EDT
[#9]
My Mod 0 clone likes 23.5gr of Varget with the 77gr SMK bullets. I use LC or WCC brass and CCI #41 primers.
I just picked up a pound of TAC but have not messed with it yet. |
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Posted: 9/11/2014 6:50:04 PM EDT
[#10]
Im still building my SPR so i havent got to shoot it over the chrono yet
but from a 16" carbine here if a load that works pretty well for me LC once fired brass (or virgin pulled brass if you want to push it) CCI 450's 77gr SMK 24.2gr of R15 seat to 2.26 groups seem good but im only shooting with non magnified optics right now, my average velocity from the 16" is 2620fps |
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Posted: 9/11/2014 8:03:47 PM EDT
[#11]
Thanks so much for the feedback. Great info so far.
Still not 100% clear as to whether a cannelured bullet vs. a non-cannelured bullet would provide better accuracy. Should I just create a small batch of each and test and see what my barrels like? Also, should I crimp, light crimp, or not crimp this round at all? Lastly, glad to see LC was listed as a brass used for reloading. I ordered a 1,000 rounds of LC and was hoping this would be a "decent" brass to use for my reloads. Not only I'm I trying to exceed BH SMK 77 grain bullets, but I'm also trying to lower my per round cost to shoot more often. Was considering using Lapua brass, but it wasn't cheap. |
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Posted: 9/11/2014 8:31:50 PM EDT
[#12]
I'm shooting a HCS MK12 mod 1, BH 5.56 77gr. Red Box is pretty consistent at around 2750fps out of my rifle.
Using CCI 41 primers, Winchester, LC, and PMC brass, Sierra 77's Been working with TAC and 8208 XBR, mostly TAC as it seems to meter a little better out of my Dillon powder bar - SD's are a bit tighter. Last batch I ran a couple of days ago (10 shot strings): Note these are near max loads. CCI 41 primer, Win. case, 24.6grs TAC, non cannalure 77gr. SMK, OAL 2.255, no crimp = 2628fps CCI 41 primer, Win. case, 24.6grs TAC, non cannalure 77gr. SMK, OAL 2.255, crimped = 2697fps CCI 41 primer, Win. case, 24.8grs TAC, non cannalure 77gr. SMK, OAL 2.255, no crimp = 2693fps CCI 41 primer, Win. case, 24.8grs TAC, non cannalure 77gr. SMK, OAL 2.255, crimped = 2724fps CCI 41 primer, Win. case, 24.8grs TAC, cannalure 77gr. SMK, OAL 2.255, crimped = 2696fps Note crimping seems to increase velocity, saw this last time out too. First try with the cannalured 77 SMK, it was a bit slower for some reason, I will need to test more to see if this is a trend. It also didn't group as well, again need to test again to see if this is a trend or if I just got sloppy. All of these loads except the last one were coming in around 1 MOA for 10 shot groups. The batch I shot a few weeks ago was similar but they ran quite a bit faster, they were crimped, non-cannalure SMK's with the same charges of TAC. OAL was 2.260 on those, wonder if they were getting into the lands and creating a bit more pressure... the 24.8gr load averaged 2805fps on that day, temps were also about 10 degrees hotter which may have helped. |
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Posted: 9/11/2014 9:01:38 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm shooting a HCS MK12 mod 1, BH 5.56 77gr. Red Box is pretty consistent at around 2750fps out of my rifle. Using CCI 41 primers, Winchester, LC, and PMC brass, Sierra 77's Been working with TAC and 8208 XBR, mostly TAC as it seems to meter a little better out of my Dillon powder bar - SD's are a bit tighter. Last batch I ran a couple of days ago: Note these are near max loads. CCI 41 primer, Win. case, 24.6grs TAC, non cannalure 77gr. SMK, OAL 2.255, no crimp = 2628fps CCI 41 primer, Win. case, 24.6grs TAC, non cannalure 77gr. SMK, OAL 2.255, crimped = 2697fps CCI 41 primer, Win. case, 24.8grs TAC, non cannalure 77gr. SMK, OAL 2.255, no crimp = 2693fps CCI 41 primer, Win. case, 24.8grs TAC, non cannalure 77gr. SMK, OAL 2.255, crimped = 2724fps CCI 41 primer, Win. case, 24.8grs TAC, cannalure 77gr. SMK, OAL 2.255, crimped = 2696fps Note crimping seems to increase velocity, saw this last time out too. First try with the cannalured 77 SMK, it was a bit slower for some reason, I will need to test more to see if this is a trend. It also didn't group as well, again need to test again to see if this is a trend or if I just got sloppy. All of these loads except the last one were coming in around 1 MOA for 10 shot groups. The batch I shot a few weeks ago was similar but they ran quite a bit faster, they were crimped, non-cannalure SMK's with the same charges of TAC. OAL was 2.260 on those, wonder if they were getting into the lands and creating a bit more pressure... the 24.8gr load averaged 2805fps on that day, temps were also about 10 degrees hotter which may have helped. Thanks, Locobob! Good info! |
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Posted: 9/11/2014 9:13:36 PM EDT
[#14]
Dont get too upset if you can not get douplicate velocity,but you will get better accuracy with you rifle if it is 1x7 or 1x8
Remember military 556 and 223 rem are not exactly the same....go for accuracy 1st then velocity . I also use tac in the Ramshot 556 load range with amazing results. Later John |
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Posted: 9/11/2014 9:15:57 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Dont get too upset if you can not get douplicate velocity,but you will get better accuracy with you rifle if it is 1x7 or 1x8 Remember military 556 and 223 rem are not exactly the same....go for accuracy 1st then velocity . I also use tac in the Ramshot 556 load range with amazing results. Later John On point, John. Exactly what I'm looking for. Looking to improve accuracy. |
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Posted: 9/11/2014 9:26:46 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm shooting a HCS MK12 mod 1, BH 5.56 77gr. Red Box is pretty consistent at around 2750fps out of my rifle. Using CCI 41 primers, Winchester, LC, and PMC brass, Sierra 77's Been working with TAC and 8208 XBR, mostly TAC as it seems to meter a little better out of my Dillon powder bar - SD's are a bit tighter. Last batch I ran a couple of days ago: Note these are near max loads. CCI 41 primer, Win. case, 24.6grs TAC, non cannalure 77gr. SMK, OAL 2.255, no crimp = 2628fps CCI 41 primer, Win. case, 24.6grs TAC, non cannalure 77gr. SMK, OAL 2.255, crimped = 2697fps CCI 41 primer, Win. case, 24.8grs TAC, non cannalure 77gr. SMK, OAL 2.255, no crimp = 2693fps CCI 41 primer, Win. case, 24.8grs TAC, non cannalure 77gr. SMK, OAL 2.255, crimped = 2724fps CCI 41 primer, Win. case, 24.8grs TAC, cannalure 77gr. SMK, OAL 2.255, crimped = 2696fps Note crimping seems to increase velocity, saw this last time out too. First try with the cannalured 77 SMK, it was a bit slower for some reason, I will need to test more to see if this is a trend. It also didn't group as well, again need to test again to see if this is a trend or if I just got sloppy. All of these loads except the last one were coming in around 1 MOA for 10 shot groups. The batch I shot a few weeks ago was similar but they ran quite a bit faster, they were crimped, non-cannalure SMK's with the same charges of TAC. OAL was 2.260 on those, wonder if they were getting into the lands and creating a bit more pressure... the 24.8gr load averaged 2805fps on that day, temps were also about 10 degrees hotter which may have helped. What were your results with XBR 8208? I am developing loads for my new PRI mk12 as we speak.
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Posted: 9/12/2014 6:03:43 AM EDT
[#17]
AA2520 is your friend and you can achieve MK262 velocities. More than one person has done this and yet it is still not popular for clonig this round
 . Accuracy is great too. I would try a poud if you can find it....
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Posted: 9/12/2014 7:41:11 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
AA2520 is your friend and you can achieve MK262 velocities. More than one person has done this and yet it is still not popular for clonig this round . Accuracy is great too. I would try a poud if you can find it....Can you post or PM me the load and velocities? I know to start low and work up. |
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Posted: 9/12/2014 11:12:36 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
AA2520 is your friend and you can achieve MK262 velocities. More than one person has done this and yet it is still not popular for clonig this round . Accuracy is great too. I would try a poud if you can find it....Ghost, is AA2520 made by Accurate? |
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Posted: 9/12/2014 11:48:29 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm shooting a HCS MK12 mod 1, BH 5.56 77gr. Red Box is pretty consistent at around 2750fps out of my rifle. Using CCI 41 primers, Winchester, LC, and PMC brass, Sierra 77's Been working with TAC and 8208 XBR, mostly TAC as it seems to meter a little better out of my Dillon powder bar - SD's are a bit tighter. Last batch I ran a couple of days ago: Note these are near max loads. CCI 41 primer, Win. case, 24.6grs TAC, non cannalure 77gr. SMK, OAL 2.255, no crimp = 2628fps CCI 41 primer, Win. case, 24.6grs TAC, non cannalure 77gr. SMK, OAL 2.255, crimped = 2697fps CCI 41 primer, Win. case, 24.8grs TAC, non cannalure 77gr. SMK, OAL 2.255, no crimp = 2693fps CCI 41 primer, Win. case, 24.8grs TAC, non cannalure 77gr. SMK, OAL 2.255, crimped = 2724fps How many shots in each group? What twist barrel? Thanks. CCI 41 primer, Win. case, 24.8grs TAC, cannalure 77gr. SMK, OAL 2.255, crimped = 2696fps Note crimping seems to increase velocity, saw this last time out too. First try with the cannalured 77 SMK, it was a bit slower for some reason, I will need to test more to see if this is a trend. It also didn't group as well, again need to test again to see if this is a trend or if I just got sloppy. All of these loads except the last one were coming in around 1 MOA for 10 shot groups. The batch I shot a few weeks ago was similar but they ran quite a bit faster, they were crimped, non-cannalure SMK's with the same charges of TAC. OAL was 2.260 on those, wonder if they were getting into the lands and creating a bit more pressure... the 24.8gr load averaged 2805fps on that day, temps were also about 10 degrees hotter which may have helped. |
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Posted: 9/12/2014 2:31:49 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What were your results with XBR 8208? I am developing loads for my new PRI mk12 as we speak. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I'm shooting a HCS MK12 mod 1, BH 5.56 77gr. Red Box is pretty consistent at around 2750fps out of my rifle. Using CCI 41 primers, Winchester, LC, and PMC brass, Sierra 77's Been working with TAC and 8208 XBR, mostly TAC as it seems to meter a little better out of my Dillon powder bar - SD's are a bit tighter. Last batch I ran a couple of days ago: Note these are near max loads. CCI 41 primer, Win. case, 24.6grs TAC, non cannalure 77gr. SMK, OAL 2.255, no crimp = 2628fps CCI 41 primer, Win. case, 24.6grs TAC, non cannalure 77gr. SMK, OAL 2.255, crimped = 2697fps CCI 41 primer, Win. case, 24.8grs TAC, non cannalure 77gr. SMK, OAL 2.255, no crimp = 2693fps CCI 41 primer, Win. case, 24.8grs TAC, non cannalure 77gr. SMK, OAL 2.255, crimped = 2724fps CCI 41 primer, Win. case, 24.8grs TAC, cannalure 77gr. SMK, OAL 2.255, crimped = 2696fps Note crimping seems to increase velocity, saw this last time out too. First try with the cannalured 77 SMK, it was a bit slower for some reason, I will need to test more to see if this is a trend. It also didn't group as well, again need to test again to see if this is a trend or if I just got sloppy. All of these loads except the last one were coming in around 1 MOA for 10 shot groups. The batch I shot a few weeks ago was similar but they ran quite a bit faster, they were crimped, non-cannalure SMK's with the same charges of TAC. OAL was 2.260 on those, wonder if they were getting into the lands and creating a bit more pressure... the 24.8gr load averaged 2805fps on that day, temps were also about 10 degrees hotter which may have helped. What were your results with XBR 8208? I am developing loads for my new PRI mk12 as we speak. CCI 41 primer, Win. case, 23.2grs 8208 XBR, non cannalure 77gr. SMK, OAL 2.255, crimped = 2612fps - two weeks prior this load but with 2.260 OAL went 2700fps, not sure what to make of that. CCI 41 primer, Win. case, 23.5grs 8208 XBR, non cannalure 77gr. SMK, OAL 2.255, crimped = 2717fps - this load is slightly over max for .223 data, I have not seen any published data for 5.56mm SD's are in the 20's for XBR where as I typically see SD's in the teens with TAC You can really feel and hear the difference with the hotter loads, those who have shot BH blue box vs. BH 5.56mm red box will know what I mean. Both the 24.8 TAC load and the 23.5gr XBR load felt like the BH 5.56mm red box. Some minor pressure signs on the casings with these but nothing spooky, BH 5.56 red box is pretty hard on brass too. |
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Posted: 9/12/2014 2:54:16 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ghost, is AA2520 made by Accurate? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
AA2520 is your friend and you can achieve MK262 velocities. More than one person has done this and yet it is still not popular for clonig this round . Accuracy is great too. I would try a poud if you can find it....Ghost, is AA2520 made by Accurate? AA2520 used to be manufactured for Accurate by Lovex, in the Czech Republic. Not sure who makes it for them now |
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Posted: 9/12/2014 3:03:47 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thanks so much for the feedback. Great info so far. Still not 100% clear as to whether a cannelured bullet vs. a non-cannelured bullet would provide better accuracy. Should I just create a small batch of each and test and see what my barrels like? Also, should I crimp, light crimp, or not crimp this round at all? Lastly, glad to see LC was listed as a brass used for reloading. I ordered a 1,000 rounds of LC and was hoping this would be a "decent" brass to use for my reloads. Not only I'm I trying to exceed BH SMK 77 grain bullets, but I'm also trying to lower my per round cost to shoot more often. Was considering using Lapua brass, but it wasn't cheap. Buy the non-cannelured bullet, Sierra refused to make the 77 grain Match King with a cannelure until the U.S. gov. said they wouldn't buy it without one. Match bullets always fly better without one. I use neck tension only, no crimp. I have never had bullet set-back when feeding from a magazine provided I have at least .002" neck tension. |
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Posted: 9/12/2014 6:22:50 PM EDT
[#24]
Guys I will post my load once I get home. I THINK I settled on 24.5 grains of AA2520 And yes that is Accurate Arms. My velocity is 2885 FPS from an 18 inch SS 1/8 RRA barrel. I went up to 24.8 with no signs of pressure but I will confirm those charges later.
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Posted: 9/12/2014 7:49:45 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Start at 23.0 and don't exceed 24.0 with any of the following powders and you'll find great accuracy somewhere in that range; Varget RE-15 VihtaVuori N140 ^ The first two choices match my experience with 77s. |
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Posted: 9/13/2014 6:52:04 AM EDT
[#26]
I've used Varget with very good results. Excellent accuracy, but the velocity wasn't as stout as chrono'ed Black Hills loads.
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Posted: 9/13/2014 10:39:56 AM EDT
[#27]
Confirmed, I settled on 24.5 grains and this is a very consistent powder. I loaded this charge over three different lots and I required 24.5 grains each time to get to 2885 FPS.
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Posted: 9/13/2014 2:43:46 PM EDT
[#28]
If it helps, on this page when you see the 77 SMK loads for Service Rifle High Power competition, you will see lots of ways to get roughly the same results with that bullet in service rifle rigs with 20" bbls and chambers similar to each other. I use a WOA rig and follow John's Reloader 15 recipe for the mag length rounds and found them to be spot on with BH out to the 300 yard line. Out past this, it would be hard to say if it is reasonable to expect any better. His advise on Rem 7 1/2 primers costs a little more, but I have to agree when I do a side by side using a heavy bbl bolt gun to see if the primers play a role.
http://www.radomski.us/njhp/cart_tech.htm |
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Posted: 9/13/2014 3:18:38 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thanks so much for the feedback. Great info so far. Still not 100% clear as to whether a cannelured bullet vs. a non-cannelured bullet would provide better accuracy. Should I just create a small batch of each and test and see what my barrels like? Also, should I crimp, light crimp, or not crimp this round at all? Lastly, glad to see LC was listed as a brass used for reloading. I ordered a 1,000 rounds of LC and was hoping this would be a "decent" brass to use for my reloads. Not only I'm I trying to exceed BH SMK 77 grain bullets, but I'm also trying to lower my per round cost to shoot more often. Was considering using Lapua brass, but it wasn't cheap. Just sort your brass by weight, your projectiles likewise, weigh and trickle your charges, be absolutely anal about attention to detail in your reloading, keep good records of results, and you can build excellent rounds. Don,'t worry about cannelured bullets, it really doesn't make much difference |
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Posted: 9/13/2014 3:22:34 PM EDT
[#30]
Oh yeah, Go Navy back at you,Destroyers and cruisers, BM in the 70's
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Posted: 9/13/2014 3:54:14 PM EDT
[#31]
And as far as precision loads. use a single stage press. My brothers and I have six Dillons between us, for load development, use the single stage, small batches, and good record keeping. After you've developed a load for your rifle, dial in the Dillon, wish you good shooting
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Posted: 9/13/2014 7:59:59 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Oh yeah, Go Navy back at you,Destroyers and cruisers, BM in the 70's AO 86-90 on carrier. Lot's of respect for you boys on those ships. We off loaded a lot of cargo to those types of ships in heavy seas and saw what they would go through. Oh, and thanks for info. Sounds like I will need to keep good logs and I plan to do so. |
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Posted: 9/18/2014 6:30:54 PM EDT
[#33]
Here is another data point for you.
Out of my rifle, with my chronograph (16" barrel) a 5 shot string with Mk262 gave me an Avg velocity of 2648fps with an ES of 49 and a SD of 17.99. 24gr of RL-15 with a Nosler CC (I've found these to be interchangeable accuracy wise with SMKs) in LC brass with a CCI #41 primer and a similar OAL gave me 2554fps avg, ES of 77 and a SD of 31.44. I've made more accurate loads with Varget but you'll never touch the velocity, TAC seems to get the closest to duplicating Mk262 in my limited experience. I've just started loading with RL-15 and I have some N-140 to try next. |
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Posted: 9/18/2014 8:39:33 PM EDT
[#34]
TAC was slightly less accurate in my rifles than was Varget. It wasn't a lot but it was noticable.
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