One nice thing about the powder shortage--its encouraging us to try new powders!

Ive been using H335 for many years, because it works well on all the rifle calibers I shoot.  I'm standardized.

But H335 has been unobtanium, while the LGS has a good stash of 4064.  Reloading manuals put them pretty close.

Any of you use it on ,,223 with good results? Heavy bullets only, or does it do well with .55gr. or even 40gr.?

I just loaded up 10 rounds to try this weekend of .223 with 25 grains of IMR 4064 behind a Sierra 55gr. Hollow point.  I don't expect it to work real well, but figured it might be fun to try. I have lots of 4064 and my H335 and Varget supply is dwindling. I figured if it works I could use some of it up on practice rounds to save on my better powders until I can find some more.

It is difficult/impossible to get enough powder in the case for the heavy bullets (75+ gr).  It was the first time I'd ever seen a heavily compressed load push the bullet back out after removal from the sizing die.  I have the chrono data but never bothered to try again.

IMR4064 is nearly perfect for 308.  

One way to deal with shortages is to shoot cartridges for which you CAN get supplies.  If you can't get 223 components, switch over to 308 or ...

I'm trying it out this weekend. Just loaded up some 75 gr Prvi bullets in LC brass, up to 24.2 gr for an OCW workup ... Slightly compressed at that weight. We'll see how it does. It's for a 20" AR (match service rifle).

Kind of a pain getting it in the case. Long kernels really like to bridge and every charge needs to be shaken in. Didn't use a drop tube but it might help.

I'm down to just a few pounds of Varget, and 4064 is everywhere.

I believe you dryflash3, but on the contrary, some folks on other forums are finding great accuracy potential with IMR4064 in the .223

I'm hoping that will be my case this weekend too.  But I have my expectations set pretty low at this point.  Who knows maybe I'll be pleasantly surprised!  

I've used 25gr behind ~55gr bullets and 22.5gr behind 77gr bullets with good results out of my Service Rifle.

ETA: you likely won't get maximum velocity for longer ranges compared to other powders, but it's MOA-or-less capable most importantly.

I've use 4064 with 69's and 80's as well as 748 with good results.
As dryflash3, stated, it will work for some

Ok I had a chance late tonight right before sunset to shoot a five shot group across the chronograph.

Test Gun was a Palmetto State Armory 16" Midlength AR15

Recipe
Sierra 55 grain boat tail hollow point - part  # 1390
IMR4064 @ 25 grains
Winchester WSR primers
PMC Brass
C.O.A.L.  2.240"

Average velocity  from five shot group was 2780 feet per second.

Did not have a chance to do a formal accuracy test because it was getting dark and I was quickly running out of time. However, they appear to be rather accurate.  Hope to get a chance later this weekend to pattern them a bit.

Bump for more info.

I hope it works, I bought eight pounds of it.

I use IMR 4064.  Meters like shit, but figured out I can get 25 - 25.5 in my unitflow onsistant.  So it is plinking ammo.  Compressed a little, but works so far.  55 grain FMJBT.  Cycles my AR.  Need to really put more than the 20 I have fired through it to get a feel.

I have used it in .223. Varget or Benchmark are my go to powders, but I was able to get a load using 4064 that was just about as accurate. Been a while, I think a 10 shot group was 1/2 inch larger than with Benchmark.

One thing you might consider if working with long stick powders is get an electronic powder dispenser.    

I got my Hornady LNL powder dispenser pretty cheap about a year ago.   I got mine for $170-just checked Grafs has them for $200 now.    I'm really happy with it.   I use it on all the long stick powders.  

I will always prefer a ball powder or short cut extruded when doing large quantities of ammo, but 100 or so target loads it's no huge deal to have to weigh charges.

Disappointing, though I'm inclined to blame the bullets.  The best I've been able to get out of them in the past was about 1.5 - 2.0 MOA, but that was out of a Colt 6920 with a stock trigger.  I was hoping to get something nice out of these cheap Prvi bullets, so I thought I'd give them every chance to do well out of my new 20" White Oak upper and Geissele trigger.  It's an A2 upper but I put an ACOG on the carry handle to shoot the load workup.

I'm going to try again with some 77 gr SMKs (magazine length) and 80 gr Noslers (single feed).

Kind of windy today.

23.0 - 2.29" (2.25" vert spread)
23.2 - 1.44" (1.40" vert spread)
23.4 - 1.72" (0.95" vert spread)
23.6 - 1.30" (0.71" vert spread)
23.8 - 1.65" (1.59" vert spread)
24.0 - 1.95" (0.86" vert spread)
24.2 - 2.42" (1.15" vert spread)

No pressure signs at all up to 24.2, which was a slightly compressed load.  Once fired LC brass, Rem 7 1/2 SRP, 2.26" OAL.

Meh.

Or buy an electronic scale and hand measure each load. That is what I did for what IMR4895 and IMR4198 that I had left over. I just don't shoot enough of 5.56/223 to justify using my Dillion Precision powder measure. Now the 9mm is a different story.

Vince

gasdoc you might want to shoot at a target with a smaller bull if you're trying for good groups.

What kind of magnification are you working with?

It's a national match AR15 with iron sights and an A2 (carry handle) upper.  For load workups the best I can do is put on the 2x ACOG I have.  Ideally I'd be able to use something with higher magnification.

Once I have a load it'll never be shot with a optic again, and I'm certainly NOT a MOA shooter with irons, try as I might.  Still, I'd feel best with a great load so that I know every bullet is landing where the rifle points it, and I can then take full blame for misses.


Since it seems the absolute best I can ever do with the 75 gr Prvi bullets is a touch better than 2 MOA, I thought I'd try some other bullets.  So I loaded up an OCW test with 77 gr Sierra Match Kings.  My chronograph is in the trunk of my car which is still at the mechanic, 6 weeks later , so no velocities.

I used smaller targets per your suggestion, but I'm not sure it was really helpful.  Using the 2x ACOG with a triangle reticle, I think I had an easier time keeping a consistent point of aim with the big orange and black high-vis targets.  I had 9 loads to shoot but only 8 of the small targets so the 9th was on a Caldwell target.

IMR 4064
Once fired Lake City brass
Remington 7 1/2 SRP
Seated to 2.25" OAL

20.4, 20.8, 21.2 (sighters)
21.4 - 0.82"
21.6 - 1.95"
21.8 - 2.16"
22.0 - 0.74"
22.2 - 0.34"
22.4 - 0.70"
22.6 - 1.02"
22.8 - 1.01"
23.0 - 0.69"
No pressure signs up to 23.0 (IMR's web data lists 22.7C as max load).

What a difference a good bullet makes.  Average point of impact for 22.0 and 22.2 were nearly identical ... (-.22" , -.45") and (-.22" , -.48") and not that far off 22.4 (-.10" , -.67").  That whole .4 grain range is comfortably sub-MOA.  Granted, these are 3-shot "groups" but I have to say I'm encouraged by it.

I'm going to load up some more in that range and shoot some 10-shot groups.

That is very good accuracy, gasdoc.

Way back I was having trouble getting acceptable accuracy out of 75 gr Swift Sciroccos.  I called them and they recommended 4064.  Problem fixed.  I'd have to dig deep to find more info but I will if someone needs it.

H335

At 200 per 8# + shipping and hazmat, I'll wait.  That's high for h335.

I see some TAC on Gunbroker for about $.14/round.  Pretty high, but one of the best for .223.



I've seen it for 30% lower than that recently.

Get some TAC by Ramshot powder,then watch those groups shrink.
also try Varget-meters like shit but is very accurate.
Win 748 is a classic powder for you rifle,meters great and
shoot like a dream but start low then work up.
Try some Hornady bullets also....Your goups are not bad !!!!
Most AR's will shoot 1 to 1&1/2 anyhow depending on optics,but for Iron sights
you are good to go ......
Later
John

I've had H335 on backorder at midsouth since November. They told me they have no timeline for when they might get some more in.

I agree, unobtainium... I did snag 2lb at a LGS though, so that will have to hold me over until the 8lb comes in..

I use 4064 for pretty much all of my of my milsurp rifles, but never considered it for 223... If you ask for the top 5 powders for 223 I doubt it would even make most peoples list. There is just too many other powders I would rather have for 223..

However, I use the crap out of 4064 for pretty much every other rifle I have from Jap Arisaka, M1 Garand, 7.5 Swiss, 7.62x54R, etc.. I would rack up if the LGS has it just for later!

My test earlier in the thread was with LC09 brass, but I have a ton of LC04 brass so I was hoping the same load would work out as well.

I measured the case capacity of 2 pieces of LC09 and got 30.38 and 30.42 gr of water, which is dead on what the internet says LC brass should be (30.4).  Two pieces of LC04 were 30.10 and 30.22.


I loaded up 10 each of the 77 gr SMKs with 22.2 gr of 4064 and shot a pair of 10-shot groups:



Still need to chrono that load, but I think it will do for a gun that'll be shot with just iron sights from here out.