The above quotes were from the What did you do today in reloading thread.  We didn't want to muddy up that thread with questions and answers type of information.  

A couple months ago the wife got a wild hair up her behind that she just had to have  G42 as a fun little plinker over her 45s.  I was fine with that, as I like the concept of the gun. Anyways, enough about that.  As many of you know 380 target ammo is very difficult to find at least around here.  I knew I would be reloading for the gun.  

We had shot 300 no malfunction rounds of Remington UMC through it before reloading, so we had a pretty good feel for the gun.    

I have a set of Lee dies that my dad uses for his LCP which he left here in our stash.  I figured I'd get my 380 reloading legs wet on the RCBS single stage over buying all the equipment to add that caliber to the RL550b.

As many of you know, lee dies come with their own Load Data on the instructions.  I have used these numbers in the past with other calibers with good success.  

This is the load data shown here.  I am using 100g Berrys HBRN bullets.   I used the data below to make up 50 rounds using 4.2g of Unique and then I made another 50 using 4.2g of Power Pistol.  This being shown as the starting loads for 100g bullet.  







Off to the range we went.  

Starting off shooting the Unique loads.   We both immediately noticed that they seemed a good bit hotter than the factory Remington stuff.  They were not really accurate, and twice we had the slide lock back on a non empty magazine (this gun in general across the masses seems to have a problem with this happening).  We had never had this happen up till this time.  

They weren't hot enough that I thought there was a danger to us or the gun, but they were hot.    

Next we shot the 50 rounds of Power Pistol.   They were a dream to shoot.  A little hotter than the Remington Factory but very accurate.   Here is a picture of the wifes shooting at 20 feet.  I was pretty impressed.  



So I had posted the results of our day on one of the infamous Glock boards and a gentleman had noted he thought my loads were way hotter than any data he'd ever seen.   I kind of started to panic because we all obviously try not to make mistakes.  

So I dug out my Speer Manual and my Lyman Manual neither of which show a 100g projectile.  But they both show 95g data.  I figured this would get me in the ball park.  IMO the LEE load data for Unique is off a good bit on the hot side.  Maybe like Plus P range.  

So making an educated guesstimation I have reduced the Unique loads down to 3.8g and left the Power Pistol load at 4.2.   These are the starting loads in the Speer manual for a 95g TMJ projectile.  

Hoping to get this out to the range tomorrow for some more testing on the Unique loads.  My prediction is that accuracy will improve and we will not long have the weird slide locking back on a non empty magazine problem.    

One question I do have for you guys, before I spend a hundred bucks or so adding this caliber to the Dillon 550, do you guys have any problems on the Dillon with it spilling powder when advancing to the next station?  Those little cases seem awfully full.


If you guys have anything to add or advice to give, I'm all ears.  

I've only had one reloading and shooting session so far with .380.  I loaded an 85gn HP over 3.8 gn of Unique.  It was the starting load listed in my Speer #11 manual for 88gn HP.  The closest bullet in my other manuals (Speer #13 and Sierra #5) is 90 gns.  The Unique loads there very from 3.2 to 4.6.



My 3.8 loads cycled my KelTec P3AT fine.  Definetly weren't over pressure.  I didnt test accuracy yet, but I did Chrono them.  I got some pretty big variations, which I'm unsure of the cause.  Still investigating.



FWIW.  Best of luck.

Thanks for the write up. I'm getting ready to reload .380 and it's nice to see other people's experience.

As to the slide locking back, check your firing grip. I'm going to bet you have a thumb in the vicinity of the slide catch. Under heavy recoil that thumb is interfering with the slide catch causing it to activate.

Good luck with your load development.

Thanks guys.

The voodoo slide locking back problem is too common on the 42 platform to nail it down to thumb dragging.  Seems to be more a load sensitivity problem or bullet profile. We shot 300 rounds of factory ammo through it with no incidents.    I know we have cross checked ourselves many times to make sure we are not thumb dragging.  When I shoot Glocks I usually bury my support hand thumb into the left takedown lever.  Right thumb is pushing down on left thumb.  Our current data definitely points at the super hot Unique loads.   We'll no more hopefully this weekend.  Will of course update results.  

Jeez, no good info on the Alliant web site and nothing at all on Berry's web site.

What OAL did you use?

Did you chrono the loads?




I looked over some old data I have on different powders.  Across the board, they show loads approximately a full grain lower than you used.  You are looking at loads for jacketed bullets.  Use the lead bullet loadings, instead.

What OAL did you use?
The HBRN are seated at a different OAL than a similar weight RN. I forget if it is suppose to be shorter or longer, but it is different.

Since you are using Plated bullets, you really shouldn't be starting with jacketed data.
Typically it is suggested to use lead data.
Due to the thin plating you will get higher velocities due to the softer projectile.
If you are happy with the PP loads, great, use them.
However, if your unique loads aren't producing favorable results, check for 95 or 100gr lead data.

If you say the slide locking prematurely is a problem with the G42s, why are you concerned with it?
It's not your technique, or a problem with your gun, it's a problem with THE gun.

I run the Berry's HBRN, 100gr LRN, and 95gr XTPs. All run well in my P3AT.

Thanks guys again.  

Some thought's I have to go along with your questions.

It is my understanding that it is good practice to use lead data.  

I also am of the belief that it is ok to use jacketed data as long as it is from the bottom to no more than middle of the data.

I also am pretty sure that most if not all plated manufacturers say not to exceed 1200 FPS.    I can't imagine I am anywhere near that?  

I just want to make sure I am in the realm.    

Unfortunately I do not have a chrono or access to one.  

I am loading them to approx. 0.973"    

I only brought up the slide locking back issue with the 42 because my suspicion is it is happening to guys that are shooting too hot of ammo.  That appears to be the case for us anyways.  I don't expect that too happen and if I can cure it by getting loads sorted out, than score one for me.


unknownhavoc, can you share your berrys HBRN recipe?  

Keep the knowledge coming guys.

A Glock pistol that cycles should lock back.  The most common cause of a Glock not locking back is limp-wristing (I lost count of how many times the Glock instructor told us that in their Armorer class).  What may be happening is that "snappy" .380 loads could be a little sharper than the shooter is used to, which causes a flinch - and limp wrists.

Looking at the Lee data, they have 100gr bullets starting with 4.2gr of Unique, with a max of 4.3 gr!  That's not much room to adjust.  I'd go with someone else's data in this case.

I"m still saving up for a G23, so no G42 for me yet...

Thanks for starting this thread.

I just started loading for a .380, Glock 42, also.  I' not sure which came first, the dies or the gun.  I am also using the Berry's 100g FBRN.  From the start, my goal was to load a low charge round that will just function the gun reliably so my wife was comfortable learning to shoot it.  My initial tests were with a variety of powder I had avaialble, including Power Pistol, HP-38, Universal and Bullseye.

All loads share these features:  COAL, .980", new Doublestar nickle plated brass , CCI 500 primers and loaded on a Hornady LNL with more than adequate charge weight verification.  Load data used was from Hornady 9, page 768, 100g FMJ-RN.  My LNL is set up with a case feeder, Hornady sizing/depriming die, powder drop w/PTX expander, RCBS lock out die, .380/9mm bullet feed die, and a Hornady seating die. Following the LNL, I use a Hornady single stage with a Lee FCD,light crimp to remove the bell, gauge check, then measure to check COAL.

Bullseye:  (data:  low = 2.3, max = 3.1)

2.3 - no cycle
2.5 - no cycle
2.7 - started to cycle, with stove pipes
3.0 - loaded to test

Universal: (data:  low = 2.8, max = 3.4)

2.8 - no cycle
3 - no cycle
3.1 - no cycle
3.3 -  loaded to test

HP - 38: (data:  low = 2.5, max = 3.3)

2.5 - no cylce
2.7 - no cycle
2.9 - no cycle
3.2 - loaded to test

Power Pistol: (data:  low = 3.0, max = 4.4)

3 - no cycle
3.3 - no cycle
3.6 - no cycle
3.9 - cycled, didn't lock back on empty
4.1 - cycled (very close to good)
4.3 - loaded to test

As you can see from the tests I am at .1 grain under max for each type of powder and will test them this weekend.  All of the above tests did shoot, it was just a cycling issue.  The Universal left visual amounts of unburned powder after firing.

On the topic of the G42 locking back if not empty.  I have seen the video of the guy testing the gun (don't remember his name, but he has the range on the hill with all of the animal shaped plates, bottles, etc. set up - well known I think).  It happened to him a couple times with a particular ammo, and he made sure it was not his thumb.  It seems likely to me that the high powered rounds are causing this with the gun.  It hasn't happened to me yet, but in addition to the testing above I only have a few hundred rounds of factory ammo through it.

Once I narrow down the load, I can load these with no problems.  It is a calber that just seems to work well on my LNL including case feeding, pushing into the plate, priming, belling, bullet feeding and seating consistently.
 

I think you are misunderstanding.  A lot of the 42s are having a problem with the slide locking back when the magazine is NOT empty.  That should never happen no matter the grip.  

I don't feel that our 42 has this problem however.  I feel I induced this problem with a bad load.  We've shot this pistol to much with zero problems for me to believe otherwise.

I have not read much about this problem, but know it does happen.  I agree with your opinion about the high power rounds contributing to the cause.  The thumb hitting the slide stop lever can cause it, but this is not the same thing in this case.

Although I have not disassembled it yet, I am aware from looking inside that the slide stop lever spring is a different design than other Glocks.  Just guessing, I wouldn't be surprised if this contributes to the issue and see a future spring replacement or other fix in this area.

I've got some Federal 90g Hydra shock and Hornady 90g Critical Defense factory rounds that should be on the high end.  If I get a chance, I'm going to shoot both to see if I can induce the malfunction.  Remington 95g UMC and Fiochi 95g FMJ did not have any problems.

RLR I am happy to see that it appears we are on the same track with Power Pistol.  

When the slide locked back, was it hung up on the magazine, the top-most cartridge or had the slide lock moved into position?  

Oddly enough, slide stop.   Power stroke slide and keep shooting.

From Berrys website...........

Plated bullets occupy a position between cast bullets and jacketed bullets. They are soft lead, but have a hard outer shell on them. When loading plated bullets we have found best results using low- to mid-range jacketed data in the load manual. You must use data for a bullet that has the same weight and profile as the one you are loading. Do not exceed mid-range loads. Do not use magnum loads.

I just did a little reading and watching videos.  It seems to be the ogive area of the some bullets slightly catching the edge of the slide stop where it sits over the corner of the magazine.  The contact causes the activation of the stop lever. High powered loads cause the bullet to shift forward, which can exacerbate the problem.  Sounds plausible and there are several threads on other forums where people have sanded the edge of the slide stop to reduce the possibility.  I have no doubt this will catch the attention of Glock and there will be a fix.  if it happens, I'll be sure to look for this - or other indicators.

I tested the loads listed by me in the earlier post.  Power Pistol and HP-38 worked well.  I'd give the slight edge to Power Pistol, but they are close.  Bullseye was ok, but didn't lock the slide back on empty as reliably as the other two.  Universal, not so good.  Unburned powder still and failure to cycle the gun.

All rounds were shot in a Glock G42 that shoots reliably with factory ammo.

Specs:  Double Tap 0 or 1 times fired brass, COAL set at .980", CCI 500 primers, light Lee FCD Crimp, Berry's 100g FBRN bullets.

1.  Power Pistol @ 4.3g - Nice shooting, reliable function, locked slide back on empty.
2.  HP-38 @ 3.2g - Nice shooting, reliable function, locked slide back on empty.
3.  Bulleye @3g - Functioned fine, shot fine, but failed to lock slide back on empty consistently (two of four times)
4.  Universal @ 3.3g - unburned powder, failed to cycle not even producing stove pipes.  Had to manually eject and cycle each round.

I will eventually chrono the first three, but if I was going to load a bunch for practice ammo, i'd use the Power Pistol or HP-38 load.

I also shot the Hornady Critical Defense 95g and Federal Hydra Shock 95g.  Both were accurate and cycled, with the Hornady taking the edge in "feel".

Yes, I misunderstood what was posted.  For the issue I discussed, my point is still valid, but closer reading (it's fundamental! ) was warranted.  I recently ran into this problem teaching someone how to handle a 1911.  His grip wasn't bad, but his off-hand kind of caused the problem.

The shooter needs to make sure there isn't a finger anywhere near the slide stop when shooting.  While this isn't a typical problem with Glocks overall, it is not an uncommon problem with auto pistols in general, and enough to be covered in the Glock Armorer course.  Since the G42 is smaller than other US-available Glocks, my instructors noted that they expected it would take a little while for even seasoned Glock shooters to adapt to the size and avoid accidentally causing this fault.

Make completely sure that the shooter is not causing this problem before you tinker with your loads.  But I do not know of ANY way a load can cause the slide stop to move up when the magazine follower doesn't push it up, unless it's the shooter's hand moving it.

So the range trip today was fun.  

What we learned today? The Power Pistol Load rocks!  The Unique load, not so much.

3.8g of Unique had the opposite problem vs 4.2g.    It wouldn't lock the slide back on the last round 3 times today.  Still was not accurate.  I just don't know if I want to mess with trying 4g of Unique.  

I may explore an W231 load in the future.  

I really need to find another pound of Power pistol lol.  I love that stuff.  

Keep the 380 ideas coming guys.  Appreciate all the info.

Just a FYI on the 550 and conversion parts needed for .380...

The .380 uses the same shell holder plate and locator buttons as .223, and same powder funnel as 9MM if you have those already...

http://thegunwiki.com/apps/calconversion/

That is invaluable information Buck.  

Thanks a ton.

Funny thing on your Unique load...

I use 4.0 gr. Unique under the same Berry's 100gr. bullet in my P-3AT.  Never a problem.

Well if that were my next move with Unique it would be to 4g lol.  

Thanks Dave.

I reload the .380 ACP round as well.  I don't have a Glock 42 as of yet so I really cant add much to your thread.  Also I cast my own lead bullets and they work great.  May not be wise to run lead through your Glock.

I own three Glocks and have not had any problems yet but that's another thread.  

I did want to add this to your thread since you mentioned W231.  I started out using Unique and while I think you can just about find a usable load for anything under the sun with unique it isn't the best powder for just anything.

I have had very good results with win231 though.  I use it with my 380 loads and it works great from my Bersa.  Of course I load most all of my non-magnum loads with it as well.  It meters nicely from a dispenser but

I tend to hand weigh all of my low capacity rounds as it just seems that even a small variance can lead to big differences.  Last year I posted a write-up with my own 380 experiences but that thread has long been archived.

I tend to aim for accuracy and reliability instead of outright velocity.  I have noticed with my own experience accuracy drops off fast after the velocities increase too much for a given bullet profile.  Of course some bullets

are worse than others.

Anyway, keep up the work and keep us posted.  I have been keeping an eye out for a G42 myself.  I have been watching the slide issue as well.  I am kinda wondering if it couldn't be fixed with a slightly stronger spring for the slide catch.

Thanks Captain.

I had been avoiding using 231 because I have a sickness.  It's called don't use much powder that you cant find or haven't seen in the longest amount of time lol.  It's definitely one of my most favorite pistol powders.  

But I think I have plenty to experiment with the little 380.    

I also have some lead boolits for the 380.  I don't mind shooting a handful at a time out of the Glock.  I haven't yet with the 42 but I'll give it a try one of these days.  

I also have not been hand weighing each charge but checking them much more frequently.  Like every 10 rounds instead of every 25 or 50 rounds like I might on a more forgiving cartridge.

Awesome, thanks dryflash!

Just loaded several rounds last week for the Glock 42 using Titegroup and 100gr Xtreme's have not been to the range yet hope to go tomorrow.

I loaded a few hundred 100g Berry's FBRN with 4.3 of Power Pistol, 3.2 of HP-38 and  3.0 of Bullseye.  These were the best (in that order) from testing yesterday.

Interestingly, I segregated the brass by head stamp, some Double Tap Nickle, Winchester, RP and GFL.  Everything was loaded exactly the same way, with exception to the powder type.  The Double Tap, Winchester and RP were smooth cases, but the GFL had that little canellure in them.  They were from some factory Fiocchi rounds.  Although I tested a few empty case after sizing in the gauge and they fit, once loaded they wouldn't gauge.  It appears that little canellure is just enough to hold it up.  I gauged them in the G42 which they were fired from, no problems, so I'll try them.

Anyway, I am going to try to test all of these next weekend through the chrono I bought last year and never used.   I'll have to break out the air soft gun at home to play with it first so I kinda know how it works.  Here are a few pictures.

The GFL Fiocchi are the  unboxed rounds.



Here is how they fit (or don't fit) in the gauge.  It is consistent - none of these fit. (They fit the gun/chamber though)



Here is an example of the other several hundred.

I have had good accuracy with 231 and Gold Dots per Speer #14.
3.6 – 4.0 grains functioned reliably.  Need to chrono at the next opportunity and maybe some water jugs...

RLR350....your bullets look good dude.

Sometimes my cast loads wont fit the case gage either.  I don't have one for the 380....but for other stuff they wont fit the gage but work great in the gun.

I wonder if the canned loads would have gaged before the reload process?

That's a good question.  I wonder, too, but didn't think to try them before I (well, actually the wife) finished off the box the other day.  I don't have any of the factory loads left.

Thanks for the information.

Using my Ruger LCP and Winchester or Remington brass with 100 grain Berry's and HP 38 powder I got 3.2 grs at 730 ft/secs, 3.3 grs at 760 ft/secs and 3.4 grs at 780 ft/secs with my Oehler 35P.

With 380 ACP I get best results with W231 and HP-38.

I've had great luck with 231 and 100G Berry's Bullets for a Ruger LCP. I load 3.2gr for most of my loads (2.8grs for the wife to shoot).  I load on a Dillon 650 and have not had an spill issues any worse than any other pistol cartridge, W231 is a fairly low volume powder though.  I have Wilson and Dillon case gages.  60% won't pass the wilson gage, but 99% passes the Dillon.  I have not had any issues feeding or ejecting in the LCP though (even the ones that fail the Dillon gage).

I had a chance to go to the range today with the Glock 42. Using Titegroup and 100gr Xtreme's 2.6 wouldn't cycle the action and 2.8 gr would stove pipe. 3.0 was the max according to the Lee manual and that is what shot best for me... although I could not get the slide to lock back on an empty magazine for some reason..

I've reloaded 380 for awhile and am really happy with Unique under 95gr lead.  I'd loaded 1k 95gr MO Bullets over 3.2gr of Unique and it was on the soft side but functioned well for practice sessions.

I'm currently loading for a TCP and decided to work up a  new load as I wanted to try some coated (SNS Casting) 95gr lead.  Some manuals report over 4gr while my Lyman lists 3.2 as max (hence sticking with 3.2 in the old loads). I loaded some test cartridges in .2gr increments from 3.2 to 3.8.  All functioned in the TCP but accuracy went down significantly at 3.8 and they were noticeably hotter.  I'm gonna settle in the 3.5 range for this batch..  I may have to pick up a chrono soon as I'm really curious what speeds these are running at.

I did some looking at SAAMI specs and the Lyman manual and it looks like they've taken a knock-down in max pressure I guess to stay safe.  That may explain the variance between manuals.  Lyman's max pressures are in the 16,000 range while SAAMI allows 21,500.  Looks like there's a similar knockdown in 9mm.

Hickok45 did his chapter 2 on the 42 and went through a bunch of brands . He had problems with buffalo and another. Everything else he fed it worked well.

Load both the .380 and 9mm Parabellum with Accurate #2. I have both the old Czech powder and the newer version without the "improved"  moniker on the label.

For the .380 I use the newer "unimproved" version with mixed cases, RP 1 1/2 primers, and 3.3 grains to 3.5 grains of the A#2 with mainly Speer 95 grain fmj bullets. Since the RP primer box indicates to use the primers with only low pressure loadings, the .380 is ideal to use my stash of 1 1/2's.

I see the A#2 loading data for 9mm has been downsized so I'll have to back off next time I load. This loading is where I use my WSP primers and the "Improved" version of my A#2 powder stash . A#2 is the only pistol powder I have but only load for the .380 and 9mm pistol rounds.

All you guys that have posted up, what are you using for COAL?  

RLR, I think reading your load data cards it says .980?  

I have been loading to .970 to .972.  

I have some factory Remington UMCs that are as short as .960 and as long as .970.

Thanks 308,  I am ecstatic at the great responses.

With 95 grain Speer fmj's I load to OAL of .960

I am using .980. No other reason than it came from the Hornady manual for 100 FMJ which was my primary source for load data.

You have found one of the secret issues of the 380.

Like the 44 AMP and some other cartridges the case neck is thinned (reamed) for a depth just enough to seat the 80-100gr bullet. Any bullet which get seated deeper into the case causes a bullet base bulge where the bullet starts to push out the thicker brass.

What's the quick and easy rule of thumb? - seat your rounds to the max length that will function with your magazines and feed reliably.

In search of the ultimate hammer drop only suppressor load in 380 we loaded some Rainier 124gr TC-TMJ - Same problem, bulge when seating to a depth that allows magazine feeding. On the flip side most all 380 chambers are sloppy oversize and the rounds functioned flawlessly in the guns they were intended for. Note that some 380 chambers are excessively throated at the feed ramp and the case is not supported at that point and these rounds were pushing the limits of the 380 cartridge. In guns with these "over-throated" chambers the fired brass had extensive base bulging to the brink of nearly bursting the cases.

The Colt Government model 380 (Mustang) we tested showed no bulge or pressure signs and ran flawlessly. A PA-63 functioned well but the shooter noted sharp recoil as the slide was hitting the hard stop on each shot and the brass was bulged excessively.

I now load a 122gr TCBB cast (magma mold). The bevel base allows deeper seating without the bulge and I have had 100% reliability since adopting this load for my Makarov. I am considering getting a new custom mold made up based on this design but shortening the bearing surfaces a bit to bring the weight down to 100gr. Then I can pump up the velocity a bit more and save on lead. (Adds up when you cast 10K per lot.)

0.965 OAL for me (w/ 95gr LRN).  I was limited to 0.960 with the Bersa mags when I started reloading 380.  Ditched the Bersa and got a TCP which will allow .980 OAL but I haven't noticed any improved accuracy from loading them long so currently compromising at 0.965.

All of Lee's data is culled directly from the powder manufacturers data.

I just dug out a 1995  paper "handout" manual  from Alliant/Hercules.  It shows a max load of 4.3 grains of Unique with a 100 grain FMJ.

The thing about .380 is that it is such a small case, that case variations from manufacturer to manufacturer can actually make a difference.  Sometimes one companies Start load will be above another one's Max.

Has anybody had any experience with the 102 gr Remington Golden Sabers and Unique? I've been looking everywhere online, and between most people not listing an OAL, and the variations in OAL used, and data scrounge from Lyman 49th, I've seen everywhere from 2 grains to 4 grains or so.

Any help would be appreciated greatly

Does anyone here use the Lee Bulge Buster Kit/Lee 380 FCD combo to fully resize their brass?

I've loaded the 102 Golden Sabers, but with Ramshot Silhouette. Western Powders lists the Berry's 100 gr with a starting load of 3.7 and a max 4.4gr. They list the Golden Saber with True Blue at a OAL of 0.960". So I went with 4.0 gr of Silhouette and the 0.960" OAL. Loaded up 18 to start with (3 mags for my LCP) all fired nicely, and groups at 7 yards were well within the 5.5" black zone on a B8 target. The cases were completely clean as in no residue so I was getting good powder burn. I don't have a chronograph, so no velocities, sorry.

I then loaded up 500 rounds in new Starline Brass to keep on hand for carry ammo.

I loaded the same 4.0 gr with the Berry's 100 gr bullet for practice loaded in mixed cases.

But I don't own the LCP anymore, gave it to my Dad's new wife to tuck in her purse. Oh well I think I might have to look at the Glock 42 now .

Not yet, but I'm looking at it.  Much of my .380 stash is either my own or "commercial" range pickups, so I may need to do that.  I got the Lee kit for my .40 S&W loading, but all I need to add is the .380 FCD to do that caliber too...

Edit to add: Just ordered the Lee .380 FCD die.  With a straight-walled case, it can't hurt to make sure the cases are all straight, right?