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Posted: 11/14/2013 5:46:48 PM EST
I have recently gotten into reloading and set up some test rounds for my next available range day.

I was wondering if anyone here has successfully reloaded for the5.45x39 round? If so, where can I find components? I would need the whole setup. What can be used to make the brass, could the 7.62x39 brass cases be resized? I do know that the .223 can be swaged down to the .221 diameter. Other than that, I am clueless.
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Posted: 11/14/2013 6:22:59 PM EST
yes over at gunco website , we reload 5.45 using 222 cal and 223 brass resized in lee 5.45 dies ( special order) also we resize 223 projectiles or buy hornaday 221 projectiles
using 222 load data
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Posted: 11/14/2013 6:33:46 PM EST
RWS made some brass at some point.
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Posted: 11/14/2013 7:12:16 PM EST
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Posted: 11/14/2013 8:06:13 PM EST
It isn't worth is financially. Surplus is cheap enough, and die companies do VERY limited runs at a premium price, and you have to resize 222rem brass, and resize projectiles.
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Posted: 11/15/2013 4:20:08 AM EST
the special dies where $ 38, the resizing die was $ 22 we get the brass for free and projectiles we have already, yah surplus is cheap well on and off it has been, but you can load your own formula I worked up one for hog with 70gr tsx blems from midway

wait till our dear leader stops imports and he will by executive fiat if he has his way

its time to start thinking ahead, instead of from behind

I am old enough to remember when 30 cal carbine was plentiful and cheap same with good 8mm mauser surplus, same will happen with russian calibers
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Posted: 11/15/2013 5:25:38 AM EST
I have reloaded 5.45. I have used 222 & 223 brass to do so, because I had lots of 223 on hand. I have not yet fired my brass more than once, so I can't say for sure which brass would be preferable. For bullets I resized 223. Occasionally someone will sell the blems from hornady. But in a nutshell you can convert 223 components to reload 5.45.
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Posted: 11/15/2013 6:18:27 AM EST
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Originally Posted By jacksprat:
the special dies where $ 38, the resizing die was $ 22 we get the brass for free and projectiles we have already, yah surplus is cheap well on and off it has been, but you can load your own formula I worked up one for hog with 70gr tsx blems from midway

wait till our dear leader stops imports and he will by executive fiat if he has his way

its time to start thinking ahead, instead of from behind

I am old enough to remember when 30 cal carbine was plentiful and cheap same with good 8mm mauser surplus, same will happen with russian calibers
View Quote



Right now, the taps are turned "on" letting 5.45 IMPORTS flow into the USA.

We are just one or two mass shootings away from those taps being shut off forever. Bonus Q: how's the supply of Norinco 223 ammo in your area?
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Posted: 11/15/2013 6:56:48 AM EST
I'm interested in this even though I don't own a 5.45. I don't want to buy something for which I can't reload. Even if I can build an ammo fortress of corrrosive, steel-cased, steel-jacketed ammo, I can't shoot it at my steel targets. If I could reload it, I could shoot copper jacketed bullets at my precious steel.

Hornady makes 5.45 ammo. Drat, steel case only.
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Posted: 11/15/2013 7:12:06 AM EST
I find it better to anneal 223 brass before I resize, but I got a good deal on some rem 222 brass a while back, so I have been using that, as to save my 223 brass, I have reloaded my resized brass a few times already no real problems yet
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Posted: 11/15/2013 8:18:26 AM EST
Does anyone have any links where I can purchase the 5.45x39 dies?
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Posted: 11/15/2013 9:23:21 AM EST
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Posted: 11/15/2013 10:45:13 AM EST
Forgive me for asking if this is a dumb quesiton, but how are you people making 5.45x39 brass out of .223 or .222 cases?

The 5.45x39mm case has a bigger case head

I've never tried it, but logic would tell me I'd want to use 7.62x39, 6mm PPC, or 22 PPC cases to form my 5.45x39 brass.
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Posted: 11/15/2013 11:37:14 AM EST
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Originally Posted By CBR900:



Right now, the taps are turned "on" letting 5.45 IMPORTS flow into the USA.

We are just one or two mass shootings away from those taps being shut off forever. Bonus Q: how's the supply of Norinco 223 ammo in your area?
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Originally Posted By CBR900:
Originally Posted By jacksprat:
the special dies where $ 38, the resizing die was $ 22 we get the brass for free and projectiles we have already, yah surplus is cheap well on and off it has been, but you can load your own formula I worked up one for hog with 70gr tsx blems from midway

wait till our dear leader stops imports and he will by executive fiat if he has his way

its time to start thinking ahead, instead of from behind

I am old enough to remember when 30 cal carbine was plentiful and cheap same with good 8mm mauser surplus, same will happen with russian calibers



Right now, the taps are turned "on" letting 5.45 IMPORTS flow into the USA.

We are just one or two mass shootings away from those taps being shut off forever. Bonus Q: how's the supply of Norinco 223 ammo in your area?

When it is no longer importable, the market will fill the void with US made components and ammo. The selection is so limited now, because there is no money in it, why try to reload so early? No real reason. If you are that tied up in 5.45 firearms, a barrel's lifetime supply of ammo was available for very cheap ($100/1080 rd delivered) just a few years ago and is still cheap compared to .223

5.45 is still cheap enough to stack it deep if you really want to get into the 5.45 game.

Norinco import ban has nothing to do with the discussion since they were never the sole source in the US for any ammo they sent to the US. When the cheap 7.62x39 from China dried up, the market responded with cheap Russian ammo. If the Russian ammo dries up, the market will correct either with PC importable ammo, or domestic ammo/components.




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Posted: 11/15/2013 11:40:43 AM EST
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Originally Posted By RIPRonReagan:
Forgive me for asking if this is a dumb quesiton, but how are you people making 5.45x39 brass out of .223 or .222 cases?

The 5.45x39mm case has a bigger case head

I've never tried it, but logic would tell me I'd want to use 7.62x39, 6mm PPC, or 22 PPC cases to form my 5.45x39 brass.
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I guess they are technically making a .220/.223 wildcat and not true 5.45X39 with the .40mm rim diameter difference.
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Posted: 11/15/2013 11:44:22 AM EST
Poland gave up the 5.45x39 Tantals many moons ago, now that they are in tune with the US and running 5.56 Beryls, I have been waiting for Polish 7n6 to show up in country.

Might want to keep an eye on Hornady in the coming year, enough pressure and they might supply 5.45 brass...
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Posted: 11/15/2013 11:51:57 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/15/2013 11:54:35 AM EST by Bubbatheredneck]
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Originally Posted By PhreakMode:
Poland gave up the 5.45x39 Tantals many moons ago, now that they are in tune with the US and running 5.56 Beryls, I have been waiting for Polish 7n6 to show up in country.

Might want to keep an eye on Hornady in the coming year, enough pressure and they might supply 5.45 brass...
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I can't imagine the market for virgin 5.45 brass is there. Even after almost doubling in price in the last few years, 5.45 is still only .16 per round. The numbers just aren't there.

Sure, you can reload for your 5.45, but it will be like swimming upstream.

And at the end of the day, why? The appeal for 5.45, esp in ARs, is cheap surplus ammo. Not its reloadability. When I go to the trouble to reload for an AR, it sure isn't 5.45
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Posted: 11/15/2013 1:00:08 PM EST
I don't understand the premise of why you would want to reload 5.45. Not many match type barrels available in that caliber, and you would be hard pressed to reload 5.45 for cheaper than you can buy it.

JMHO

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Posted: 11/15/2013 1:22:30 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Bubbatheredneck:

I can't imagine the market for virgin 5.45 brass is there. Even after almost doubling in price in the last few years, 5.45 is still only .16 per round. The numbers just aren't there.

Sure, you can reload for your 5.45, but it will be like swimming upstream.

And at the end of the day, why? The appeal for 5.45, esp in ARs, is cheap surplus ammo. Not its reloadability. When I go to the trouble to reload for an AR, it sure isn't 5.45
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Originally Posted By Bubbatheredneck:
Originally Posted By PhreakMode:
Poland gave up the 5.45x39 Tantals many moons ago, now that they are in tune with the US and running 5.56 Beryls, I have been waiting for Polish 7n6 to show up in country.

Might want to keep an eye on Hornady in the coming year, enough pressure and they might supply 5.45 brass...

I can't imagine the market for virgin 5.45 brass is there. Even after almost doubling in price in the last few years, 5.45 is still only .16 per round. The numbers just aren't there.

Sure, you can reload for your 5.45, but it will be like swimming upstream.

And at the end of the day, why? The appeal for 5.45, esp in ARs, is cheap surplus ammo. Not its reloadability. When I go to the trouble to reload for an AR, it sure isn't 5.45


You are confusing necessity with desire, not the best move.
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Posted: 11/15/2013 1:27:21 PM EST
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Originally Posted By ZA206:
I don't understand the premise of why you would want to reload 5.45. Not many match type barrels available in that caliber, and you would be hard pressed to reload 5.45 for cheaper than you can buy it.

JMHO

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Cost per round savings isn't really concerning me. I want to have the supplies set up and working with good data that I have worked up. The knowledge gained is what I am seeking.

I think it would be a great idea to be able to develop this round a little further. I have an AR chambered for this round and would like to continue to shoot it should surplus market dries up and the manufactured ammo rises to where it is cheaper to reload than buying new.

Granted, I stocked up on 5.45 when it was $180 per 2160rd crates and have quite a bit stocked up.
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Posted: 11/15/2013 1:52:59 PM EST
WHY WHY WHY wtf get on a thread where you can contribute something of value instead of putting down others and trying to act superior

to answer the sensable questions for those who are willing to learn

the dies where made up by lee on special order through a group buy on Gunco, there is another company that sells the dies I forget the company name. our group buy last year sold out immediately

yes the base diameter is smaller on the 223/556 or 222 but the standard ak 74 bolt will pick up and the ejector will eject fine with these cases, some guys have replaced the 5.45 bolts with 223 bolts with the same stem thickness that really solves that concern, but so far no problems using the original bolts

if you reload these cases it give you a better choice of projectile grains you can use, beside military applications we are stuck with and are reloadable
also many of us have pulled the projectiles from steel cases, this is tough on the interia pullers and replaced the projectile like the herters and hornady ammo currently sold with so so results
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Posted: 11/15/2013 2:46:34 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/15/2013 2:48:27 PM EST by Danger6]
You can get sizing dies for that caliber from some of the specialty outfits or on special order. You use .222 Rem case as the brass and resize, trim etc, some such process. You have to resize .224 bullets down to .220 or .221 using a Lee bullet swager or some die for that purpose. A PITA, but some people do it and have success at it. Keep searching the internet or in an AK forum and you will find it.
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Posted: 11/15/2013 3:09:55 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/15/2013 3:14:39 PM EST by towerofpower94]
What trimmer are you guys using for the .223 to 5.45 converted brass? Doesn't seem like a standard Zip Trim stem or Dillon RT1200/Giraud set up. Just one of the lathe type trimmers with a .222 stem set to the proper length?

For those who said they used .222 bullets, did you resize them or just use them in a similar fashion to .312 bullets down a .308 barrel?

I love my 74s and shooting cheap surplus but, like others, I like having the knowledge that I can reload for every firearm I own if the time comes when supply and/or price makes purchasing ammo an impossibility.

Thanks

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Posted: 11/15/2013 6:59:03 PM EST
I've been loading 5.45x39 for several years now. Best results I've had for brass is using .222 Rem to form the case.

I found the dies on the EE here, they are Lee manufacture. As for components, I use a push through die to size .224 bullets down to .221. I used the minimum starting loads for .222 and worked my way up.

Also, if you plan to shoot formed brass 5.45 a lot, I'd suggest buying a replacement extractor and having it angled for the smaller extractor grove of .222.
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Posted: 11/15/2013 11:20:44 PM EST
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Posted: 11/16/2013 12:52:24 AM EST
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Originally Posted By An_Orphanage:
I've been loading 5.45x39 for several years now. Best results I've had for brass is using .222 Rem to form the case.

I found the dies on the EE here, they are Lee manufacture. As for components, I use a push through die to size .224 bullets down to .221. I used the minimum starting loads for .222 and worked my way up.

Also, if you plan to shoot formed brass 5.45 a lot, I'd suggest buying a replacement extractor and having it angled for the smaller extractor grove of .222.
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Thanks for the breakdown on that. How do you form your cases? I haven't found a step by step process online with regards to 'expander ball out, size, trim, expander ball in, size again, etc' like I have for forming 7.62x25Tok cases from .223 (which I do).

With winter coming up, it's the perfect time of year to tinker around with something like this....
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Posted: 11/16/2013 5:40:21 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/16/2013 5:44:08 PM EST by mace2364]
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Originally Posted By RIPRonReagan:
Forgive me for asking if this is a dumb quesiton, but how are you people making 5.45x39 brass out of .223 or .222 cases?

The 5.45x39mm case has a bigger case head

I've never tried it, but logic would tell me I'd want to use 7.62x39, 6mm PPC, or 22 PPC cases to form my 5.45x39 brass.
View Quote



It's a common misconception that 5.45x39 was derived from 7.62x39. If you actually measure the case head on a 5.45 round, you will find it to be fairly similar to .222 and .223. It is different, but not so much so that you can't use those for parent cases.
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Posted: 11/17/2013 4:21:51 AM EST
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Originally Posted By mace2364:



It's a common misconception that 5.45x39 was derived from 7.62x39. If you actually measure the case head on a 5.45 round, you will find it to be fairly similar to .222 and .223. It is different, but not so much so that you can't use those for parent cases.
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Originally Posted By mace2364:
Originally Posted By RIPRonReagan:
Forgive me for asking if this is a dumb quesiton, but how are you people making 5.45x39 brass out of .223 or .222 cases?

The 5.45x39mm case has a bigger case head

I've never tried it, but logic would tell me I'd want to use 7.62x39, 6mm PPC, or 22 PPC cases to form my 5.45x39 brass.



It's a common misconception that 5.45x39 was derived from 7.62x39. If you actually measure the case head on a 5.45 round, you will find it to be fairly similar to .222 and .223. It is different, but not so much so that you can't use those for parent cases.


That seems like it would be a devlopement of a new wildcat round based on the 5.45x39.
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Posted: 11/18/2013 9:10:02 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/18/2013 9:10:39 AM EST by CBR900]
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Originally Posted By dryflash3:

. . .

Why, because I can. If people want to buy their ammo that's fine with me.


I'm a reloader, so that's how I roll.

. . .

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If the reloading subforum ever needed a mission statement or motto, I nominate this!
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