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Posted: 7/6/2013 5:39:47 PM EDT
I've reloaded lots of straight wall handgun ammo but relatively new to bottleneck cases.  I'm processing a lot of .223 brass and am having some difficulty understanding good sizing procedure.  Using a Hornady Headspace Gauge I've measured a lot of once fired brass I bought.  Cases measured anywhere from 1.450 to 1.470, with most around 1.460.  Setting up my RCBS full length sizing die as per the instructions all cases came out resized to 1.460 plus or minus .001.

Those that were originally shorter than 1.460 stayed the same meaning I have some ranging down to 1.450.  I'm I going to be OK using a length that short?  I just bought a WFT trimmer that trims off the case shoulder so that means the necks will be uniform but the overall length of the case will vary as much as .010.  Even though after bullet seating the OAL of the cartridges will be the same should I be concerned?

These will be for plinking in an AR but I need to get a good feel as to what I'm doing.  I guess after several firings the case will stretch and all this will not be an issue.  Any advice would be greatly appreciated.  thanks.
Link Posted: 7/6/2013 5:47:50 PM EDT
[#1]
Buy a case gauge, read directions.
Adjust sizing die to get the correct dimensions.
Buy a good caliper and measure the OAL of the brass.
Trim as needed, as close to specs as possible with your gear.
Seat bullet to correct depth and OAL cartridge length.

Learn to read primer strikes, brass and point of impact and you're GTG.

If the case won't feed right, primers look flattened, cases seemed gouged/overly banged up consider them as signs you need to address your reloading and make changes.

The case gauge is critical for reloading along with measuring tools and a full spec sheet for the 223 round.

Then there's primers, powder, bullets..endless possibilities...along with you want out of your handloads?
Link Posted: 7/6/2013 6:37:10 PM EDT
[#2]
thanks for the reply, but I was hoping to get something more specific to my questions regarding brass dimensions.
Link Posted: 7/6/2013 6:40:17 PM EDT
[#3]
 Using a Hornady Headspace Gauge I've measured a lot of once fired brass I bought.  


Do not waist your time measuring someone else's brass, It was not fired in your rifle so it means absolutely Nothing to you and your rifle.

Setting up my RCBS full length sizing die as per the instructions all cases came out resized to 1.460 plus or minus .001.  


Please explain what you did to set up your FL die.   Many a handloader confused the seating die set up with the sizing die set up.  Just double checking on how You set up your dies.

Does the brass you sized (no bullet) chamber and extract with ease in Your rifle?  If so, then yes those cases are OK.  If not, then No they are not OK.

Put the Stoney point gauge away until you have some brass fired from Your rifle.  Then measure and set up your FL die for desired shoulder bump.
Link Posted: 7/6/2013 7:03:51 PM EDT
[#4]
Link Posted: 7/6/2013 7:20:28 PM EDT
[#5]
Link Posted: 7/7/2013 7:36:28 AM EDT
[#6]
Forget about trim length. Worry about case head separation. A maximum chamber head to datum is 1.4736"  The minimum factory loaded ammo or FL sized brass,  head to datum measurement is 1.4596"  The gives a total head  clearence of .014"  If brass is reloaded and shot a few time @ .014", you will get a separation at the head or in the case body. A 1 time firing of your short brass should not be a problem. I would guess your rifles chanber is not at maximum?? Compare your fired brass, from your rifle, using your Hornady thing to know. Load & shoot.
Link Posted: 7/7/2013 11:57:13 AM EDT
[#7]
Unfortunately I don't have any fired cases on hand.  What I'm in the process of loading is exactly for that purpose!  Once I get fired cases from this batch I'm loading I will measure and set shoulder back .003.  Is there any reason why the Hornady Headspace gauge wouldn't work well for this proceedure?  Is a case gauge like the Wilson headspace gauge or the Dillon absolutely necessary in addition?

To get there I'm using the basic instructions on the RCBS FL die, run die down to shellholder and increase 1/8th turn.  This is what's producing the 1.460 measurement.  These cases will chamber and extract fine from my rifle.

Again, I'm just trying to make sure that this case length will be safe to fire to obtain sample pieces of brass.  I measured some factory ammo and it showed 1.458 so I can't be too far off.  Also, I've read where it may take 2 to 3 firings to get case expansion to chamber.  So what to do, measure after each firing and continue to bump back each time?
Link Posted: 7/7/2013 12:12:31 PM EDT
[#8]
Buy a reloading manual..several if you can swing it.

Read all you can and hit up all the reloading sites online.

Headpsace gauges and Case gauges are for 2 separate readings.

FIRST get a manual for the correct case dimensions.
Get the tools to make the measurements...case gauge included.

Set up your reloading dies as directed, check the re-sized brass in your case gauge, adjust dies as needed and start from there.

Start with some test loads.....may 2 dozen at most....1/2 dozen is better ...to check for function/accuracy.

Check out "Ladder Loads" at maybe half-grain intervals to see what works best for your rifle.

Repeat/Adjust as needed.

Link Posted: 7/7/2013 12:24:11 PM EDT
[#9]
The Hornady unit is more accurate than a case gage. It is safe to load and fire using that die setting, as long as the brass goes into the Ar15 and the bolt locks.    Read this to better understand the Hornady comparator.   http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/lid=12897/GunTechdetail/Gauging_Success___Minimum_Headspace_and_Maximum_COL
Quoted:
Unfortunately I don't have any fired cases on hand.  What I'm in the process of loading is exactly for that purpose!  Once I get fired cases from this batch I'm loading I will measure and set shoulder back .003.  Is there any reason why the Hornady Headspace gauge wouldn't work well for this proceedure?  Is a case gauge like the Wilson headspace gauge or the Dillon absolutely necessary in addition?

To get there I'm using the basic instructions on the RCBS FL die, run die down to shellholder and increase 1/8th turn.  This is what's producing the 1.460 measurement.  These cases will chamber and extract fine from my rifle.

Again, I'm just trying to make sure that this case length will be safe to fire to obtain sample pieces of brass.  I measured some factory ammo and it showed 1.458 so I can't be too far off.  Also, I've read where it may take 2 to 3 firings to get case expansion to chamber.  So what to do, measure after each firing and continue to bump back each time?


Link Posted: 7/7/2013 1:40:56 PM EDT
[#10]
Quoted:
The Hornady unit is more accurate than a case gage. It is safe to load and fire using that die setting, as long as the brass goes into the Ar15 and the bolt locks.    Read this to better understand the Hornady comparator.   http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/lid=12897/GunTechdetail/Gauging_Success___Minimum_Headspace_and_Maximum_COL
Quoted:
Unfortunately I don't have any fired cases on hand.  What I'm in the process of loading is exactly for that purpose!  Once I get fired cases from this batch I'm loading I will measure and set shoulder back .003.  Is there any reason why the Hornady Headspace gauge wouldn't work well for this proceedure?  Is a case gauge like the Wilson headspace gauge or the Dillon absolutely necessary in addition?

To get there I'm using the basic instructions on the RCBS FL die, run die down to shellholder and increase 1/8th turn.  This is what's producing the 1.460 measurement.  These cases will chamber and extract fine from my rifle.

Again, I'm just trying to make sure that this case length will be safe to fire to obtain sample pieces of brass.  I measured some factory ammo and it showed 1.458 so I can't be too far off.  Also, I've read where it may take 2 to 3 firings to get case expansion to chamber.  So what to do, measure after each firing and continue to bump back each time?




thanks,  very good article.  I bought the Comparator many years ago (when it was made by Stoney Point) as well as their tool for setting up COAL.  At the time it appeared to be a more accurate tool for setting minimum headspace.  My thinking was the Wilson gauge is fine for determining the same measurements but not as easy to use as the Comparator, and maybe not as accurate.  I would be glad to hear any different opinion as to why not.  

Link Posted: 7/7/2013 7:11:42 PM EDT
[#11]
Link Posted: 7/8/2013 5:23:38 AM EDT
[#12]
Your cases will expand to your chamber upon the first firing. Don't know where you read that incorrect info.
A hot factory loading like XM193 will  , but some reloads will not. I have measured brass that got shorter head to datum after firing. M16A1 & Savage bolt action. In fact, the Savage firing pin strike  will set the shoulder back .006"  Found this out with help of a bad primer.    
Link Posted: 7/8/2013 6:16:30 AM EDT
[#13]
Quoted:

Quoted:
Unfortunately I don't have any fired cases on hand.  What I'm in the process of loading is exactly for that purpose!  Once I get fired cases from this batch I'm loading I will measure and set shoulder back .003.  Is there any reason why the Hornady Headspace gauge wouldn't work well for this proceedure?  Is a case gauge like the Wilson headspace gauge or the Dillon absolutely necessary in addition?

To get there I'm using the basic instructions on the RCBS FL die, run die down to shellholder and increase 1/8th turn.  This is what's producing the 1.460 measurement.  These cases will chamber and extract fine from my rifle.

Again, I'm just trying to make sure that this case length will be safe to fire to obtain sample pieces of brass.  I measured some factory ammo and it showed 1.458 so I can't be too far off.  Also, I've read where it may take 2 to 3 firings to get case expansion to chamber.  So what to do, measure after each firing and continue to bump back each time?

The factory loads that I measured with the Hornady HS gauge were way, way short.  So a bad reference.  

Which makes sense as they are designed to fire in any 223 chamber.

Your cases will expand to your chamber upon the first firing. Don't know where you read that incorrect info.

Be sure to check case OAL after you size your cases. You seem to be confused on this also.

Cases that measure 1.750 to 1.760 are ok to shoot. Any longer and you need to trim them.

Use your cases that chamber good and load them. After firing then you will have your reference cases for your rifle.


How can it be a bad reference if I'm looking for exactly that:  a case designed to fire in any 223 chamber.  I repeat, I'm just looking for a safe case length to fire in my rifle for the purpose of fire forming.  I don't intend to ever use that shoulder to base length again (unless that just unlikely happens to be my chamber dimensions).  You stated "Use your cases that chamber good and load them".  Well, I gotta resize a case to do just that and that's all I'm trying to accomplish on this go around.

I have no confusion on case OAL.  Regardless of shoulder to base length, I will measure and trim to 1.750 as needed after resizing.  

I don't have the experience to discuss fire forming.  I've just read that depending on the brass, the load, and springback due to the expansion of the case diameter, it may take more than one firing.  I can discover that for myself after firing my loads.  It's not my concern right now.

Link Posted: 7/8/2013 10:47:46 AM EDT
[#14]
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