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drfroglegs
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Posted: 4/10/2013 6:41:19 PM EST
I know there are some over pressure concerns if you reload at near max loads and shoot when it's 110 outside, but is that the only reason this powder isn't more popular?

I was at the store the other day and they had 8 lbs of it, but no other AR powder. Why are people so hesitant with this powder.
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TGH456E
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Posted: 4/10/2013 6:46:16 PM EST
What you just said: it's touchy and there are better powders out there now.
lazyengineer
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Posted: 4/10/2013 7:29:43 PM EST
Originally Posted By drfroglegs:
I know there are some over pressure concerns if you reload at near max loads and shoot when it's 110 outside, but is that the only reason this powder isn't more popular?

I was at the store the other day and they had 8 lbs of it, but no other AR powder. Why are people so hesitant with this powder.


I've heard that. Never seen it. I've shot warm loads in plenty hot weather, and never seen this "spooky" behavior. I think it's a good powder and you can use it with confidence, in my opinion. Meters well too.
Nate304
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Posted: 4/10/2013 7:39:52 PM EST
I've never used it but it seems alot of people on here like it. Seems to be really popular for the 6.5 grendel.

If u can get it locally for a good price i'd pick some up. Wish i could get stuff locally, its either a 1 hour drive to cabelas to see empty shelves
or the local walmart......to see empty shelves lol
Andrew
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Posted: 4/10/2013 7:43:02 PM EST
A funny story...after Dad died, I got his Remington 788 in .308 that he got in the early 70's.

It wasn't a tackdriver like the .243, and .223 788's I had back in the 70's.

I've always liked to shoot a small a group as possible, and Dad's 788 just would not shoot my reloads
very well. Two and three inch groups were common.

I started out with 4064, then 4895, 4320, H380 and several others I don't remember. Still shot big groups.

One day I decided to try some BLC2, because I had some.

Holy smokes ! I had a less than 1 inch group off of sandbags.

There must be some flaw in the rifle that makes it shoot so badly.

Now, years later it doesn't shoot worth a damn, unless it's burning BLC2. Weird !
Andrew
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Posted: 4/10/2013 7:51:26 PM EST
Also, BLC2 has been, and still is a very popular powder.
I've loaded thousands of 223's on my Dillon with BLC2.
They shoot great in my AR15's, and with match bullets in my CZ527.

In my Remington 40 XBBR, I shoot IMR8208, because it shoots better than 4064
and Varget, in my rifle at least.

However it shoots a pretty tight group with BLC2 also.
AeroE
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Posted: 4/10/2013 7:54:03 PM EST
BL-C2 was one of the staples for .223 Rem up until about 1999 or 2000.

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flynbye
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Posted: 4/10/2013 11:23:46 PM EST
BLC-2 is my goto powder for 223. It runs good though my press and i never had one of those touchie times with it maybe because i live in Ohio and we only see one week a year where it hits 100 deg
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wyatt1
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Posted: 4/11/2013 1:40:37 AM EST
[Last Edit: 4/11/2013 1:41:17 AM EST by wyatt1]
I always look for BLC2 these days. Not my first choice but I have worked up good loads for it. Great for high volume plinking over a 55 fmj.
Not nearly as spooky as 748 in my experience.
MarkHatfield
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Posted: 4/11/2013 2:45:42 AM EST
Still a fine powder but Varget is similar and less temperature sensitive.
dennyd
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Posted: 4/11/2013 3:04:51 AM EST
I think it's because it takes a bit more powder, and from the short ar barrels where you are already losing velocity anyway, why brother,kind of like cfe223, but if you want top velocity and a huge fireball use it, i have used it but there is better powders, if you had a 24 inch barrel and looking for every bit of speed then cfe or bl-c2 is the one's to use.
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Posted: 4/11/2013 5:00:33 AM EST
[Last Edit: 4/11/2013 5:01:08 AM EST by An_Orphanage]
Because I have cheaper surplus WC844 for .223, and Reloader 15 is the same price and performs far better for 308.
DakotaFAL
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Posted: 4/11/2013 9:40:15 AM EST
Both H335 and BLC-2 are superb powders in the .223, especially with medium weight bullets.

H335 and BLC-2 are basically canister grades of WC844 and WC846 military powders. And, WC844 was just one end of the allowable specifications for WC846 and was developed to support the then new M193 round in the M16A1.

So, you can argue that H335 may be better, but BLC-2 is still extremely good in the .223 and I've noted that I can often get a bit more velocity out of BLC-2 than I can out of H335 without showing pressure signs (although I suspect those loads are still over the accepted 52,000 CUP pressure limit for .223).

I never had issues with temperature sensitivity with H335 or BLC-2, but then I normally did load development for them in the summer months.

Varget does not meter nearly as well.

I suspect any perceived slide in popularity for H335 and BLC-2 in the .223 is first more perceived than real, and second if any slide has occurred it's probably due to a number of other powders that are specifically targeting the AR-15 crowd.
orthodoxwarrior
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Posted: 4/11/2013 9:59:40 AM EST
I never noticed people staying away from it;but I feel like if you were reloading in a certain time frame you knew about it and most of us used it but it kinda just faded away some.I always keep it and still use it and like it alot.I just founf 2 pounds on a shopping run and snatched it up.
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Posted: 4/11/2013 10:00:23 AM EST
I never noticed people staying away from it;but I feel like if you were reloading in a certain time frame you knew about it and most of us used it but it kinda just faded away some.I always keep it and still use it and like it alot.I just founf 2 pounds on a shopping run and snatched it up.
SteelonSteel
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Posted: 4/11/2013 10:21:38 AM EST
Originally Posted By drfroglegs:
I know there are some over pressure concerns if you reload at near max loads and shoot when it's 110 outside, but is that the only reason this powder isn't more popular?

I was at the store the other day and they had 8 lbs of it, but no other AR powder. Why are people so hesitant with this powder.


If you work up a load and stop at the first/lower node you can plink to your heart's content with it. With heat though you will wander out of your accuracy node. That's why I gave up on it after much use in .223 and .22-250
Originally Posted By TheOtherDave:

'Cause skinny chicks are like laying on a pile of coat hangers....

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drfroglegs
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Posted: 4/11/2013 11:32:51 AM EST
Originally Posted By DakotaFAL:
Both H335 and BLC-2 are superb powders in the .223, especially with medium weight bullets.

H335 and BLC-2 are basically canister grades of WC844 and WC846 military powders. And, WC844 was just one end of the allowable specifications for WC846 and was developed to support the then new M193 round in the M16A1.

So, you can argue that H335 may be better, but BLC-2 is still extremely good in the .223 and I've noted that I can often get a bit more velocity out of BLC-2 than I can out of H335 without showing pressure signs (although I suspect those loads are still over the accepted 52,000 CUP pressure limit for .223).

I never had issues with temperature sensitivity with H335 or BLC-2, but then I normally did load development for them in the summer months.

Varget does not meter nearly as well.

I suspect any perceived slide in popularity for H335 and BLC-2 in the .223 is first more perceived than real, and second if any slide has occurred it's probably due to a number of other powders that are specifically targeting the AR-15 crowd.


Thanks for the very detailed comment, very helpful. I've been buying it up like its all that's left, oh wait....

I'm anxious to give it a try this weekend. I'll let everyone know how it shoots!
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drfroglegs
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Posted: 4/11/2013 11:35:35 AM EST
Originally Posted By SteelonSteel:
Originally Posted By drfroglegs:
I know there are some over pressure concerns if you reload at near max loads and shoot when it's 110 outside, but is that the only reason this powder isn't more popular?

I was at the store the other day and they had 8 lbs of it, but no other AR powder. Why are people so hesitant with this powder.


If you work up a load and stop at the first/lower node you can plink to your heart's content with it. With heat though you will wander out of your accuracy node. That's why I gave up on it after much use in .223 and .22-250


By "with heat" are you referring to the outside temperature or the temperature of your barrel? Seems like all powders would experience the same anomolies with respect to the barrel heating to a given temperature, are you suggesting BLC2 is just more susceptible to the accuracy losses due to the temperature decrease? <- That's not an argumentative question, I really want to know what you think.

Thanks guys! Good comments, I welcome the wealth of knowledge!
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Posted: 4/11/2013 12:09:52 PM EST
Seems like all powders would experience the same anomolies with respect to the barrel heating to a given temperature


They are NOT all the same.

Some burn faster, some slower, some more, some less.

It all depends on chemistry and granulation of the actual powder kernels.

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Posted: 4/11/2013 1:09:50 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/11/2013 1:10:29 PM EST by Motor1]
Originally Posted By DakotaFAL:
Both H335 and BLC-2 are superb powders in the .223, especially with medium weight bullets.

H335 and BLC-2 are basically canister grades of WC844 and WC846 military powders. And, WC844 was just one end of the allowable specifications for WC846 and was developed to support the then new M193 round in the M16A1.

So, you can argue that H335 may be better, but BLC-2 is still extremely good in the .223 and I've noted that I can often get a bit more velocity out of BLC-2 than I can out of H335 without showing pressure signs (although I suspect those loads are still over the accepted 52,000 CUP pressure limit for .223).

I never had issues with temperature sensitivity with H335 or BLC-2, but then I normally did load development for them in the summer months.

Varget does not meter nearly as well.

I suspect any perceived slide in popularity for H335 and BLC-2 in the .223 is first more perceived than real, and second if any slide has occurred it's probably due to a number of other powders that are specifically targeting the AR-15 crowd.


Could not agree more. Very well written.

I have used all 4. I just finished up my WC-846 and decided to try some WC-844. So far I have gotten good results with it in my Rem.742 auto loader in .308 Win. I have test loads loaded for the .223 I have yet to shoot.

I have only experienced the hot in hot weather thing once and that was with Win 760 in a 6mm Rem. The load was worked up in near freezing conditions. On a 95 degree day in July it was over pressure. But truth be told it was probably near over pressure even in the cold.
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Posted: 4/11/2013 1:19:47 PM EST
Every hand loader should have some BL-C(2) on hand. It is very versatile and can be used in cases up to '06 size, maybe not ideal, but better than nothing. .223, .22-250, .308, 30-30 and so on. H4895, H335, W748, Varget, any of these are useful for a fairly wide batch of calibers, with the exception of the big powder gobbling mags. Sometimes, like now, we just can't rely on supply for our pet product and that is one reason for some of the shortage. Folks are stocking up on anything that keeps their guns in play.
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Posted: 4/11/2013 1:39:31 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/11/2013 1:40:49 PM EST by Rich_V]
When I was developing a 308 load for the 155 grain Amax bullet I found H335 to give very erratic velocities and high pressures at relatively low velocities. I switched to BL-C2 and had great results with a linear velocity/powder charge unlike H335. These differences were not seen with other bullets, I was surprised how two powders that are very similar to each other could behave so differently.
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SteelonSteel
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Posted: 4/11/2013 4:24:16 PM EST
Originally Posted By drfroglegs:
Originally Posted By SteelonSteel:
Originally Posted By drfroglegs:
I know there are some over pressure concerns if you reload at near max loads and shoot when it's 110 outside, but is that the only reason this powder isn't more popular?

I was at the store the other day and they had 8 lbs of it, but no other AR powder. Why are people so hesitant with this powder.


If you work up a load and stop at the first/lower node you can plink to your heart's content with it. With heat though you will wander out of your accuracy node. That's why I gave up on it after much use in .223 and .22-250


By "with heat" are you referring to the outside temperature or the temperature of your barrel? Seems like all powders would experience the same anomolies with respect to the barrel heating to a given temperature, are you suggesting BLC2 is just more susceptible to the accuracy losses due to the temperature decrease? <- That's not an argumentative question, I really want to know what you think.

Thanks guys! Good comments, I welcome the wealth of knowledge!


Outside temp is what I meant and to some degree baking in the sun on the firing line. Loads developed in Spring 65 ish temps shot on over 95 degree days. Accuracy went south for me off what I had considered a well tuned load.
Originally Posted By TheOtherDave:

'Cause skinny chicks are like laying on a pile of coat hangers....

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dryflash3
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Posted: 4/11/2013 5:29:47 PM EST

I have used BLC2 in the past. Never had a problem with it.

I also load it in 30-30 and 308.

I have moved on to Tac for bulk loading though.
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drfroglegs
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Posted: 4/12/2013 4:31:37 AM EST
Originally Posted By dryflash3:
<a href="http://s250.photobucket.com/user/dryflash3/media/550/PB290313.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg272/dryflash3/550/PB290313.jpg</a>

I have used BLC2 in the past. Never had a problem with it.

I also load it in 30-30 and 308.

I have moved on to Tac for bulk loading though.


Can I have your reloading setup? No, seriously... please...
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Posted: 4/12/2013 9:24:15 AM EST
I have a bunch of BL-C(2) on hand. I like it for 147 grain. 308 loads for my FALs and M1A Scout. Scored it and a bunch of projectiles from Wideners some years ago when they were both pretty cheap.
Have enough on hand to last a while.

I like it for 5.56 loading also. But would rather use AA2230 if I can keep it on hand.
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