Well I'm going to finish setting up my press today when I get home from class. I'll be loading for 9mm.

When working up a load, does one start at the minimum and load 5-10 rounds of that and then increase? What do people usually increase for the next load? How many steps do you take when working up a load? Is it start at the bottom, make 5-10 rounds, go shoot, come back and try again or is it start at the bottom, make 5-10 rounds, bump up powder, make 5-10 more rounds, etc, until you find the load that works best?

Just trying to understand the process. It seems like 5-10 at the bottom, shooting and coming back to make more is a bit time consuming....but I guess the alternative of pulling bullets would result in the same thing.

What are things to look for when shooting a newly loaded round? Cycling? Primer deformation?

NEW QUESTION

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The norm is to load 10 rounds starting with the starting load for your powder in your book. I prefer to go in increments of .1 or .2 grains, 10 rounds per batch and find what works best. For 9mm I found my starting load worked just fine for plinking. Same for .38 and .357. The only load I had to increase was for .45ACP, and that was just by .2 grains. Good luck!

Thanks for the reply.

I guess my question more condensed is: Do you load 10 rounds of several different loads and once you find what works make more of that and disassemble the rest?

might as well shoot them all. As an example you load 5 lots of 9mm, each consisting of 10 rounds, you are not out that much so shoot them, like my 9mm load is 124g FMJ with 4.0g of IMR 700X in it, so my workup for that would have been 10 rounds of 4.0, 10 rounds of 4.2, 4.4, 4.6, and 4.8. This is just an example, I do not have my book in front of me, do not exceed the maximum load. Also, especially once you start getting closer to the max, do not set your bullets to the minimum depth. You want to set them as long as possible while still feeding reliably. Set a bullet in a deprimed, empty case, and chamber it. Set it deeper until the bullet no longer contacts the rifling. That should be your seating depth. too deep, with more powder, could create dangerous pressures and KB your gun(extreme scenario)

Ok awesome. Last question, what am I looking for when looking up a load? Obviously not to exceed the maximum load, but how do I know when I've found the best load? I'm looking for plinking ammo to get more trigger time for now.

It should cycle your gun reliably, should be most consistent with accuracy, and should not deform your brass and primers. Also, see my edit above about seating depth of the bullet.

The problem with pressure signs and pistol cartridges and this would be charbroiled index finger, entire hand numb for a day , fingers on fire kind experience talking. Sometimes, not all the time but sometimes the first pressure sign you get is the explosion you didn't want.

I will not attempt load work up without chronograph imput. I've pushed 9mm to the limit, with an eye on chronograph. 147 grain XTP moving 1200 fps is a mighty thump,  if you err, err on the side for caution.

I usually have goals in mind before working up the load.

It sounds like John87 has hit the nail on the head as to what you were looking for.
(""It should cycle your gun reliably, should be most consistent with accuracy, and should not deform your brass and primers."")

Some other goals for example would be to find the most accurate load. Or as 1911smith posted, the most velocity with a particular bullet. Or you may be trying to match a factory load.

I shoot a lot of cast bullets. So most of the time I'm looking for good accuracy, reliable function, and no excessive leading.

Once you know your gun you will be able to "work up" your loads more quickly and use less components doing so.

Thanks for the replies.

I'm looking to just have ammo that is cheaper to shoot. I just want more trigger time.

I was reading that lead bullets aren't great for HKs. They may foul the barrel. Fortunately I only bought 500 bullets. I'll clean it well and then find jacketed bullets for future use.

I load a minimum of 10 rounds per powder charge increment.  I don't want to have to break down too many so I only load 10 on the low and high sides of the range.  20 rounds for the powder charges that "should" work.  I will fire them in 5 round groups so I have at least two dat sets for each increment.  Usually the minimum charge weights won't cycle the gun reliably or might not lock the slide back.  These are eliminated right away (unless you plan to swap recoil springs).  I usually like to be at least two increments above the heaviest charge that won't lock the slide back for a safety margin.  On the high end of the range, I stop shooting once I see signs of overpressure.  From what is left over, balance out shootability and accuracy to narrow your decision.  This will probably require another test loading a larger quantity of rounds from the narrowed down list.  I probably didn't explain it well, but it would look something like this:

3.2gr - too light to reliably cycle
3.4gr- cycles 100% but fails to lock slide back reliably, weak ejection
3.6gr- soft shooting, locks slide back, ejection OK, accurate
3.8gr- feels good, strong ejection, decent group
4.0gr- snappier than 3.8, accurate
4.2gr- OK group
4.4gr- flattened primers
4.6gr- did not shoot

In the above example, I would throw out 3.2, 3.4, and 3.6 grains for being too light to function 100%.  3.6gr might be worth a second look, but I would need to shoot a lot of rounds of it before trusting it.  4.4 and 4.6 get thrown out for being overpressure.  My next trial would be to load 30 or 40 of each of 3.8gr, 4.0gr, and 4.2gr to try to determine which is the best (balancing shootability and accuracy).

Thanks, that is extremely helpful. I guess what I don't know is what charges should work since I've never done this before. So I should start with the minimum value listed in my loading manual and work my way up from there? What range should I stop at?

Accurate #7 lists the minimum load at 5.3 grains and the max at 6.3. So do I call it quits at 6.1 grains, 5.9?

I call it quits once I get something that John87 mentioned above. Reliable, accurate enough for intended purpose, and of course, no pressure signs.  For plinking, or casual target use, I don't see the value in pushing the limits with pistol loads.

My technique when starting a new pistol load is to look at 3 or 4 manuals. I take the starting & max loads from each of the manuals and figure out an average starting & max load.  I then extrapolate a middle value from these average loads (something in the middle of what I computed).  From this extrapolated value, I start my loads a little below this and work my way up until the load fits the criteria listed above.

Good luck and let us know how things work out.

bags533's post is a prime example of what I meant when I said it gets easier once you know your gun. This is an experienced reloader.

OP,
I don't want to start the war again over rifling and cast bullets but does your pistol have polygonal rifling? If it does you may not want to use those cast bullets.

It does. It's a P30. I read about it the other day. I figure 500 rounds won't kill it will it? I'll switch to jacketed after.

I'm in the process of setting up my press now (dillon 550). I think I'm having issues with the bullet seating die and the crimping die. I'm going to pick up a set of calipers later tonight to check things but eyeing it for now. I have one round that is noticably shorter than a factory round and one that is slightly shorter. I'm not sure of the length on any of them since I don't have calipers yet. However, when I drop one of the two rounds I "made" into the barrel of my gun (it's out of the gun), the ones I made both sit higher than the factory one...what would cause that?

ETA: I assembled the gun and put the bullet in the barrel and rode the slide down, the slide didn't close all the way. I let the slide go, it went into battery. Would it need more crimp? Less flare from the powder die?

Pictures inbound.

just run a bore snake through the barrel ever 100 rounds or so, and you should be fine. Note: I have never put lead through my USP40 or Glock 19, but this is what I have heard and seems to be the general consensus and makes sense. Also to clean your barrel before switching to Jacketed ammo.

So here are the pictures.

Powder die and flare.



On the right is the case that was in the press, left is untreated.



Same again, right was in the press, left untreated.



Finished bullet...not sure if right...given the blue and lead shaving..



Problem...



And my setup that has to be portable due to small space living.

Ok. That's helpful. I appreciate that. I'm going to eat dinner and grab the calipers and try again after. I had a real wide flare and backed it down from that because I thought it was too much.

Also remove your barrel and use it to help determine OAL. It will eliminate the issue of your round being too long such as you posted. You should be able to drop the round into the barrel so that when the barrel is turned down the round will freely fall out. Your OAL will change based on bullet design such as RN, JHP, SWC etc.

Ok. With the calipers I have the round I just made measures 1.141, manual says 1.145 and the hollow point (Ranger T 147 gr) on my desk is 1.127...Good news is this latest round fits in the barrel no problem.

How do I tell if the crimp is good?



These rounds measured 1.148. They went into the barrel easily and came out when I turned it upside down. Do they look ok? Hollow point for reference.

This is what they look like.

I loaded 10 rounds with the minimum amount of charge recommended. Now I measured these and they measured 1.153-1.156. What would account for that deviation from the 1.147 I was measuring on an unprimed, uncharged casing?

Moose,

Looks like you need a bit more.

I don't know if crimping for lead is different than jacketed, but for a jacketed bullet I just crimp enough to remove the bell completely or maybe a slight taper crimp at the most (this is for auto loaders only, not revolvers).

If you compare Dryflash's lead rounds to yours; the brass at the top of his rounds are nice and snug against the bullet, and yours aren't quite there yet.

Don't know if you are crimping in a separate step, but it usually makes things more consistent (especially COAL).

Yea. It's 4 stations. Resizing/deprime/prime, bell/powder drop, seating and finally crimping. You're saying the crimping die needs to be screwed down a bit further?

Yep, just experiment a little; a little at a time. This is the 'art' and not the 'science' part of handloading- which also makes it the most satisfying.

The way is see events in this thread is that you were shaving the bullets due to not belling enough. Now it appears you aren't taking the entire bell out, regardless of the fact that they fit in your chamber. Even a light taper crimp should be fine.

Typical types of crimps: Taper on the left, Roll on the right

Awesome. Thanks guys. I never would have been to figure this out on my own.

I had no idea it would be this complicated...I certainly enjoyed what I did so far. I can see myself enjoying this.

So just slowly put the crimping die down until it does a light taper?

Another way of measuring your crimp is to close you calipers about .1" back from the case mouth just like you would if you were measuring it. Then while holding the caliper snug slide the round back (or caliper forward) and note the size change as it gets to the case mouth. I usually crimp to where there is either no change or up to a -.002" change. Give it a try.

OK. I'll give it a whirl.

Adjectives are very poor substitutes for numbers. This has become my pet pieve, why ? Because this creates unnecessary confusion and endless posts that start with.

"Is this enough crimp." Ending with. "My cartridges won't feed."

Then the poor fucker winds up in some 1911 forum somewhere being told he needs everything from new recoil springs to send it off to a competent smith. In between these suggestions are new magazines, extractors and shooting lessons.


It's simple math but what do we tell folks ? Set the die to where it just removes the flare. Last time I checked no one makes a "remove the flare die." Not Dillon, Redding, RCBS, Lee, Hornady, NOBODY.

EVERYONE mentioned makes a crimp die and setting a crimp die is done like everything else reloading, by computing simple elementary grade math. Looks something like this. ( bullet diameter + brass casewall thickness x 2 = maximum setting for crimp die. So if we have a .355 bullet using Winchester brass and we want TO SET THE CRIMP DIE, elementary level math looks like this.

(.355 + .010 x 2 = .375) So with these numbers I take a belled or "flared" piece of brass, place in shell holder, extend ram and run my CRIMP die down tight on belled case that I belled .004 over sized case mouth. Then crank my CRIMP DIE down anywhere from a half to three quarters a turn further and lock.

No crimp at all, still requires the use of a crimp die, meaning a CRIMP has been applied.

Now, take the same numbers from above. (.355 + .010 x 2 = .375) Although we, with experience know what removing the flare is. What we take for granted is how this is perceived. Think back when all this was new and your overwhelmed. Someone, somewhere taught you the math for a ZERO SUM CRIMP. If not, then maybe you were touched and figured it all out because, well, your smart. Whatever..... Most folks need voltage before the light comes on.

Ok, let's look at zero sum crimp, light crimp, medium crimp and heavy crimp. You won't find this written down anywhere folks. This is what teaching others has netted.

Bullet diameter + case wall x 2 = zero sum crimp. This is, 0.000 (zero). Light crimp is - 0.001 (negative one thousanths). Medium crimp is -0.002 (negative two thousanths). Heavy crimp is -0.003 (negative 3 thousanths).

Someone said Patrick Sweeney had a book out on reloading. In his book he suggested 0.004 crimp ? I'll have to get that book, but that's excessive. Some history on Patrick takes him back in time before IPSC, through IPSC and into USPSA. Knowing his history I have no problem believing this because these sports reward speed far more than accuracy. Modern ammunition manufacturing crimps to negative three thousanths, heavy crimp. So Patrick's a bit off the chart. Said this just because I knew it would come up again. Didn't respond when posted but it can't be let go without discussion. Patrick has been around long enough to know negative four thousanths would not win him a bullseye match. For most of the new guys, just finding something that works is challenge enough and we've all been there.

Someone, one time made the mistake of saying. " Well that's all good and fine but some of us are math impaired ! " Ok, I said. If you think about it we measure oal with a caliper, powder by grain on a scale that measures by grain, we use dial gages to measure things like primer depth and cartridge neck runout. What you're really saying is you're "reloading impaired.".

Numbers are crystal clear, adjectives are open to interpretation and subject to perception. If you want to teach you must be crystal in instruction.

Thanks for that post. It was quite informative. What crimp do you suggest I run then? Medium?

Beings you're new to this and these cartridges are new for your gun and don't have a firm grasp on tailor making cartridges to a specific feed channel. Yes, I'd recommend a medium crimp.

Now someone's gonna come along and say BS and my unsaid reaction will be, .

Take your caliper with you sometime to a gunshop. Tell them what your doing and you'd like to see every make and type of cartridge they sell. Mine said sure and starting hauling boxes from behind the counter. Bass Pro didn't give me a second look. Measure loaded case mouths on pistol cartridges. Lee didn't name their factory crimp die what they did for nothing. Allmost all ammunition makers crimp by at least .001. Hornady has been the one exception and guess what ? Hornady now crimps their Critical Defense ammunition. The reason most use for not crimping is because straight wall pistol headspaces off the case mouth. While true, your weapons feed channel depends on bullet ogive to navigate its way to chamber. Setback can really screw with feed geometry. At a minimum use a light crimp until you get to know the craft a little better.

By the way. I can't hand groups of heavy, medium, light or zero sum crimped cartridges to a novice shooter a discern a difference in crimp by their groupings.  People go overboard to make this an issue when it's not.

Confused about the last statment.

Hi-Lite what confuses you, please. That way I can be specific.

What's being said there is if I handed 10 zero sum crimp, 10 light crimp, 10 medium crimp and 10 heavy crimp cartridges to say, my nephew. Who's not too bad a shot for an 18 year old whose parents only allow him 3 to 4 range trips a year. If we spoon fed him, 10 cartridges with same crimp and had him use different target for each group of ten.

I can guarantee we wouldn't be able to sort what target went with what group of crimp.

That's what I thought but wasn't sure if that was what was being said.

Ok well today I went out and tested the loads I had worked up.

Started with the 5.3 gr charge. On the last round of the first 5 it stove piped. Next 5 went through fine.
Moved up to the 5.5 gr charge. I think this was the best of the group. It was the most accurate and gun functioned fine.
Bumped it up to the 5.7 gr charge and it was all over the map. Gun functioned fine though.
The 5.9 gr charge felt close to a +P round. It was all over the map too. Gun functioned fine.

For reference I was shooting at a big paper bag, Wasn't aiming for good small groupings but I could see that the 5.7+ were not very accurate.
Other than the stovepipe all of the reloads worked fine. I didn't shoot the 6.0 or 6.1 gr rounds I had. I didn't see the point.

My question becomes. Now that I established the 5.5 gr charge was the best out of that group, do I make 5.4 and 5.6 gr loads and see how they function? Make a more controlled test?

I noticed that the Accurate #7 powder is more smokey than factory loads.

ETA: I also had one primer seat sideways. I couldn't get the plate to index and I discovered that. What do I do with the shell/stuck primer? I know trying to punch it back out probably isn't the best idea...soak it in wd-40?

Thanks. I'll give it a whirl tomorrow when my girlfriend isn't home.

Any thoughts on the load?

Is it worth testing the 5.4 and 5.6 gr load?

Looks like you are well on your way.

To answer your question:
That is up to you. What purpose will it serve you? If for nothing but for curiosity, sure why not. But have a goal in mind. Do you want to be able to save that .1gr of powder per load or are you looking for a tighter group? This is what's so great about making your own. You get to try all sorts of thinks sometimes, just because you can.

With those results, I would probably try a new run with 5.5gr and 5.6gr.  I'd skip the 5.4gr since you had a failure with the 5.3gr load; not enough margin for me.

Sounds like your on your way now. The beauty of it is trying different powders, bullets etc. to get the best results for your specific gun.

I have a lot of rounds to load before I try a new powder...



I'm a decent shot. That being said I'm not trying to load to shoot the x ring from 25 yards. I'm loading to get more trigger time.