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ThorCW
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Posted: 8/14/2012 2:43:12 AM
I know this might have been covered but how are they pulled with air? Ive googled and searched couldnt find anything definative
rg1
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Posted: 8/14/2012 11:17:58 AM
[Last Edit: 8/14/2012 11:51:22 AM by rg1]
I believe that the term "air pulled bullets" are bullets demilled with equipment that uses air pressure to operate a mechanism similiar to our hand impact bullet pullers. The bullets are removed without anything touching or gripping the bullets which can leave marks on the bullets. Air pulled just means they use air pressure to operate the device which is similiar to a jackhammer or impact chisel and not air pressure to blow the bullet from the case. Haven't seen any such equipment in operation. Check out this post. Scroll down to Sticks post:
http://www.m4carbine.net/archive/index.php/t-106488.html
You can still have crimp marks in the bullet or swipe marks from the bullet sliding out of the case neck but no marks from collets or fingers that grip and pull on the bullets and possibly making them out of round.
Forty5Cal
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Posted: 8/15/2012 9:58:54 AM
[Last Edit: 8/15/2012 10:01:20 AM by Forty5Cal]
I asked the same question in a post a few weeks ago. I can't find the post now so I can't quote the answer.

Dryflash3 explained it simply as a rubber suction cup fits over the tip of the bullet, suction is applied, like a vacuum, and the machine pulls the bullet out. no marks.
ThorCW
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Posted: 8/15/2012 12:27:26 PM
That makes more sense I found a guy who said it was putting ammo in a sealed container applying presssure to the whole thing the pressure who leak into the case and then you decompress the outside and everything flies apart. I actually rigged this up at work I got everything to come apart with 250lbs of nitrogen could easily set this up to do say 250 500 bullets at a time with reasonably little cost.
R2point0
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Posted: 8/15/2012 3:14:12 PM
Originally Posted By ThorCW:
That makes more sense I found a guy who said it was putting ammo in a sealed container applying presssure to the whole thing the pressure who leak into the case and then you decompress the outside and everything flies apart. I actually rigged this up at work I got everything to come apart with 250lbs of nitrogen could easily set this up to do say 250 500 bullets at a time with reasonably little cost.


250 PSI? Yikes - that's a lot of pressure to be messing with large tanks. I was thinking the other direction - pull a vacuum on the case and the existing pressure inside would pop out the bullet.

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Chas8008
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Posted: 8/15/2012 5:13:44 PM

Originally Posted By ThorCW:
That makes more sense I found a guy who said it was putting ammo in a sealed container applying presssure to the whole thing the pressure who leak into the case and then you decompress the outside and everything flies apart. I actually rigged this up at work I got everything to come apart with 250lbs of nitrogen could easily set this up to do say 250 500 bullets at a time with reasonably little cost.

that does sounds cool, How long did you pressure the load?
Do not email me please, I will not get it. IM me only for the time being..

Thanks Chas
dryflash3
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Posted: 8/15/2012 7:20:48 PM

Originally Posted By Forty5Cal:
I asked the same question in a post a few weeks ago. I can't find the post now so I can't quote the answer.

Dryflash3 explained it simply as a rubber suction cup fits over the tip of the bullet, suction is applied, like a vacuum, and the machine pulls the bullet out. no marks.

That had to be someone else, wasn't me.
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Forty5Cal
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Posted: 8/15/2012 7:35:12 PM
I'm pretty sure it was you.

It was in my thread about the SS 109 pulls and how they looked so good, just a line of dots as pull marks. Someone asked about that part being in the case, how could the machine grab it. I made a feeble attempt to explain and you cleared that up. Remember the baseball pitching machine analogy ?

I asked if you knew how air pulled works cuz I sure didn't.

Obo2
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Posted: 8/15/2012 9:16:21 PM
I would love to get to the bottom of this one halfway through my box of air pulled ss109 just ordered some air pulled m193...

I tried to look in to it some but all i came up with was more threads with basically just guesses ranging from an air actuated kinetic puller to a suction device that pulls them out to a pressurizing a chamber and or then pulling a vacuum on it.
rg1
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Posted: 8/15/2012 10:09:34 PM
I'd like to find out also. I even emailed a supplier of air-pulled bullets and they don't know what the process is also. Googling won't find any info.
ThorCW
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Posted: 8/16/2012 1:40:38 AM
Originally Posted By R2point0:
Originally Posted By ThorCW:
That makes more sense I found a guy who said it was putting ammo in a sealed container applying presssure to the whole thing the pressure who leak into the case and then you decompress the outside and everything flies apart. I actually rigged this up at work I got everything to come apart with 250lbs of nitrogen could easily set this up to do say 250 500 bullets at a time with reasonably little cost.


250 PSI? Yikes - that's a lot of pressure to be messing with large tanks. I was thinking the other direction - pull a vacuum on the case and the existing pressure inside would pop out the bullet.

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I rigged this up with big steel fittings and a butterfly valve with a catch trap on the end just to prove a concept. I left the pressure on for about 30 to 40 minutes it leaked into the case and when I opened the valve the bullets popped out. I saw some damage to the bullets but made no attempt and softening the blow in the trap but I dont think it would take much effort.
ThorCW
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Posted: 8/16/2012 1:42:02 AM
I put the loaded bullets in a chamber of just fitting laying around the shop and then I used a nitrogen tank with a regulator
InfiniteGrim
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Posted: 8/16/2012 1:50:02 AM
Originally Posted By dryflash3:

Originally Posted By Forty5Cal:
I asked the same question in a post a few weeks ago. I can't find the post now so I can't quote the answer.

Dryflash3 explained it simply as a rubber suction cup fits over the tip of the bullet, suction is applied, like a vacuum, and the machine pulls the bullet out. no marks.

That had to be someone else, wasn't me.


It was me and I said it was a guess.
Forty5Cal
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Posted: 8/16/2012 6:40:27 AM
Yes, it was you, I remember now.
Sorry for the mix up and not giving you credit for an excellent explanation.
InfiniteGrim
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Posted: 8/16/2012 7:19:11 AM
Originally Posted By Forty5Cal:
Yes, it was you, I remember now.
Sorry for the mix up and not giving you credit for an excellent explanation.


But dont take that as gospel, it was only a guess
R2point0
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Posted: 8/16/2012 8:18:58 AM
Originally Posted By ThorCW:
I put the loaded bullets in a chamber of just fitting laying around the shop and then I used a nitrogen tank with a regulator


Don't get me wrong - for small scale experimentation those pressures are no big deal. But on a larger scale - like enough to do a lot of cartridges at once - those are actually pretty high pressures. Well into ASME unfired pressure vessel territory. Still has a lot of potential; just don't want to give people the idea that just welding up a big box is a good idea.

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Forty5Cal
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Posted: 8/16/2012 10:01:49 AM
Originally Posted By InfiniteGrim:
Originally Posted By Forty5Cal:
Yes, it was you, I remember now.
Sorry for the mix up and not giving you credit for an excellent explanation.


But dont take that as gospel, it was only a guess


A guess ??? OMG !!1 There's no trusting you now.


j/k

ThorCW
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Posted: 8/16/2012 11:23:42 AM
I understand your position but for a company to have something made to do 500 or a thousand pretty small beans.
Motor1
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Posted: 8/16/2012 11:47:19 AM
You can rule out vacuum. It is not possible to draw more than about 24 pounds per square inch of vacuum and a bullet tip don't have many square inches to hold on to. I agree with ThorCW. If there is money to be made one such device could do a lot of "pull down" in a shift.
hdbiker1
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Posted: 8/17/2012 1:54:01 PM
This thread made me curious enough that I email Federal and their response confirmed my belief that air is used to actuate a collet that pulls the bullet.