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jnk556
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Posted: 7/28/2012 6:40:58 PM EST
I have a newbe question about these two types of powder. They are both made by Hodgdon correct?? They share a website....

I also see loads for IMR 4895, and H4895, among other powders with the same numbers among the two as well. What is the difference, or is there???
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pavlovwolf
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Posted: 7/28/2012 6:47:12 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/28/2012 6:48:06 PM EST by pavlovwolf]
Originally Posted By jnk556:
I have a newbe question about these two types of powder. They are both made by Hodgdon correct?? They share a website....

I also see loads for IMR 4895, and H4895, among other powders with the same numbers among the two as well. What is the difference, or is there???


Use IMR data for IMR.

Hodgdon for Hogdon. The burn rates can and are in many cases different. Some cases the same number may be several steps apart from each other on the burn rate chart.

In this case, they are next to each other, but, I wouldn't recommend working up with one and then substituting the other without completely working a new load up. Even the same brand and number of powder can vary enough from lot # to lot # that if you are near max you can have problems. Find something that works, and then go to Powder Valley and order as much of the same lot # as you can afford.

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RegionRat
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Posted: 7/28/2012 7:20:15 PM EST
The difference between chemistry versus mergers & acquisitions can be important......
Play it safe unless you are an expert.
While they are managed together, they were never really the same and they do us a favor by not dropping the ones that are similar.
Nothing to sweat about as long as they don't make changes.
dryflash3
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Posted: 7/28/2012 7:43:09 PM EST

Originally Posted By jnk556:
I have a newbe question about these two types of powder. They are both made by Hodgdon correct?? They share a website....

I also see loads for IMR 4895, and H4895, among other powders with the same numbers among the two as well. What is the difference, or is there???

They have different burning rates and are not the same powder.

Guns, cartridges, primers, and powder have confusing names. Just the way it is.

Be sure you have the exact product when you reload.
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Trollslayer
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Posted: 7/28/2012 9:17:46 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/28/2012 9:21:29 PM EST by Trollslayer]
Hodgdon Powder Co. acquired the IMR Powder Co. in 2003. Up to that point, they were separate companies with different products, each requiring its own recipe.

Hodgdon provided powders that were very similar to the IMR products, hence the duplication in the numbers.

The two companies were always careful to draw a distinction between the powders, hence the letter differences.



IMR-4064 remains my favorite powder for 308 Winchester cartridge reloading.


IMR-4895 is what I use for 30-06 Springfield but I also have a 1 pound bottle of H-4895 in the cabinet. Similar velocities require a difference of about 1 grain of powder.



Hodgdon Varget is what I use for 223 Remington.

I use quite a bit of H-4350 but it may soon be replaced by H-4831SC.

What I see is Hodgdon Extreme powders grabbing a huge market share due to their insensitivity to temperature and the "short cut" (smaller powder granules). Still, there's just nothing wrong with IMR products. I'd use them, anytime.
steve4102
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Posted: 7/29/2012 3:27:45 AM EST
Originally Posted By jnk556:
I have a newbe question about these two types of powder. They are both made by Hodgdon correct?? They share a website....

I also see loads for IMR 4895, and H4895, among other powders with the same numbers among the two as well. What is the difference, or is there???


Not really, Hodgdon does not Make any smokeless powder, they purchase it in bulk, package it and sell it. Many of their powder are manufactured by ADI in Australia. H4895 being one of them, it's ADI equivalent is AR 2206H.

IMR on the other hand is manufactured in Canada.

These two powder are not the same, they are manufactured by two different companies on two different continents. The only thing that is the same is the #4895, the powder is different. Same goes for the 4198, 4831 and 4350's..

243winxb
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Posted: 7/29/2012 3:52:44 AM EST
IMR4895 & H4895 are not the same. Not all IMR powders are made in Canada now. Read the MSDS supplyed by Hodgdon. http://www.hodgdon.com/msds.html
jnk556
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Posted: 7/29/2012 6:34:42 AM EST
Thanks guys. I kinda figured they were different, but with the same numbers and all I wasn't sure.

They really try to make it confusing having their powders with the same numbers and all
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AeroE
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Posted: 7/29/2012 6:55:45 AM EST
There was one 4895 gunpowder up until the early 60's. Bruce Hodgon started his business with a train car load of surplus 4895.

Then later, due to competition for a government contract, Dupont offered up their version of 4895 gunpowder which caused a divergence with two "4895's" in the market. Different, but still very similar at first.

Nowadays treat them as unique gunpowders.

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jnk556
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Posted: 7/29/2012 8:01:42 AM EST
Originally Posted By AeroE:
There was one 4895 gunpowder up until the early 60's. Bruce Hodgon started his business with a train car load of surplus 4895.

Then later, due to competition for a government contract, Dupont offered up their version of 4895 gunpowder which caused a divergence with two "4895's" in the market. Different, but still very similar at first.

Nowadays treat them as unique gunpowders.



So I see. If I have my history right, 4895 was the mil powder for 30-06 M2?? I guess it was pretty much the powder that it all started from, and they eventually ended up as two different kinds of 4895, made by 2 different companies that have in time grew apart. Makes sense to me.
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brickeyee
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Posted: 7/29/2012 9:48:16 AM EST
Originally Posted By AeroE:
There was one 4895 gunpowder up until the early 60's. Bruce Hodgon started his business with a train car load of surplus 4895.

Then later, due to competition for a government contract, Dupont offered up their version of 4895 gunpowder which caused a divergence with two "4895's" in the market. Different, but still very similar at first.

Nowadays treat them as unique gunpowders.



t is the difference in two lots of the same non-canister powder.

Hodgdon had his lot (made by IMR) that he stated with as government surplus.

That became H4895.
Hodgdon has since had others make new powder against that lot for canister grade.

IMR chose a different lot as their 'canister grade' for IMR4895.

They now make new lots against THAT lot of 4895.


They are close, but enough different that the canister grades we normally purchase are not interchangeable (weight for weight).

You will occasionally see non-canister grade powders for sale (like the AA'data' powders).
Many are 'left over' from a far larger lot and not enough remains for a large high speed factory to use for another lot of ammunition.

They often come with some limited loading data for a few cartridges (sometimes only one).

They can be a bargain, but require a lot of care and knowledge to work up a safe load (especlliy in a cartridge very different than the powder was developed for).