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gasdoc09
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Posted: 7/13/2012 9:29:42 PM
So. I just got some more of AAC's factory primed 300BLK brass, off backorder at Midway.

I took the decapping pin out of my Lee 300BLK resizing die so I could run new brass through a sizer without popping out the primers. The brass needs it, because lots of the necks are slightly dented - not badly but enough to be not perfectly round.

I was using Imperial sizing wax, but it's kind of a pain to wipe all the lube off them when I'm done. Then I discovered that the cases would go in easily without any lube at all. I put about 50 through that way, none stuck. Case length doesn't change.

Is there a reason why I should lube these anyway?


The other thing I've noticed is that this brass fits in my Wilson case gage really loose. Like rattle-around loose. I have case gages for every caliber I reload and this is by far the loosest. I'm not sure what to make of that.
dnmccoy
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Posted: 7/13/2012 9:42:04 PM
Always use lube (giggity) when resizing rifle brass. You may get away with it a few times, but eventually you'll get one stuck
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Hawcer
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Posted: 7/13/2012 10:15:22 PM

Yep...the few you resized without lube were running off the lube still in the die. As far as the rattlely looseness? mabe it's because it's new unfired brass that isn't springing back as much after sizing it.
4719DAVE
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Posted: 7/13/2012 11:07:49 PM
no lube and it's going to hurt sooner or later
gasdoc09
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Posted: 7/13/2012 11:49:14 PM
Originally Posted By Hawcer:
Yep...the few you resized without lube were running off the lube still in the die.

There was no lube left in the die. I had cleaned it out. Again at least 50+ pieces of unlubed brass through it. They go in with minimal force, and come out easily.

Originally Posted By Hawcer:
As far as the rattlely looseness? mabe it's because it's new unfired brass that isn't springing back as much after sizing it.

It's new 0-fired AAC brand 300BLK headstamped new brass. It's loose in the case gage even before I run it through the die.
The brass isn't getting resized much. I just measured 3 cases before putting them through the die:

.373" .374" .373" just above base (case gage is .387" at the head)
.358" .358" .358" just below shoulder
.328" .328" .325" neck size (case gage is .342" at the neck)

After going through the die, all came out within .001 of where they started, except the one case with a .325" neck, which came out .328" ...


Is .014" of rattle normal for a case gage? I just checked a random resized 9mm case, it's .389" at the just above the base - the 9mm Lyman gage I have is .394" or only .005" larger.


Originally Posted By dnmccoy:
Always use lube (giggity) when resizing rifle brass. You may get away with it a few times, but eventually you'll get one stuck

Maybe, you guys are the experts but I figure it would've happened by now if so.

The small amount of resistance I meet when the case goes in and out is the neck expander making contact. It seems the only thing my resizing die is doing is making the case mouths round. Which is great, but I'm starting to wonder if I need to bother running them through the FL sizer at all before loading them. Slightly dented case mouths won't stop SMK 220s from seating.
ChrisGarrett
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Posted: 7/14/2012 12:29:45 AM
If the new brass is loose in your drop-in gage and you're not feeling any 'sizing' going on when the case enters your sizing die, then you've got brass that is seemingly 'undersized' relative to your gage and your FL sizing die.

Don't count on this being the case after you fire form them to your chamber.

Personally, unless you're doing 500 cases, wiping off Imperial is not a terrible task. I wipe Imperial off with a dry cotton tee shirt and RCBS CaseLube II with a damp shop towel, so I know that while it's an extra task, it's not like trimming, or camphering/deburring, either.

Congrats...you got lucky, but don't get into the habit of not lubing bottleneck cases, is all.

Chris
Henny
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Posted: 7/14/2012 5:06:50 AM
It would only take one to really put a damper on your day of reloading.

With my luck, I'd just spray lube them, run them through the sizing die and tumble them clean.
"...But there's also this: there are over 5,000 men in this city, who know that being a policeman is an endless, glamourless, thankless job that's gotta be done. I know it, too, and I'm damn glad to be one of them." Joe Friday
dusten
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Posted: 7/14/2012 5:44:04 AM
Originally Posted By gasdoc09:

The small amount of resistance I meet when the case goes in and out is the neck expander making contact. It seems the only thing my resizing die is doing is making the case mouths round. Which is great, but I'm starting to wonder if I need to bother running them through the FL sizer at all before loading them. Slightly dented case mouths won't stop SMK 220s from seating.


It is recommend to run new brass through a neck sizing die because of possible dented case mouths which may cause seating problems. Another consideration is that the expander ball could stretch out your case necks without being lubed. You didn't mention OAL, so I would measure some before and after you run them through the sizing die.

Jeffrey91
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Posted: 7/14/2012 5:59:18 AM
You might get away from not lubing one or two brass, but trust me they will get stuck in there. What happens is the shell holder literally breaks off the brass rim, and it's almost impossible to remove the stuck brass. On the lee, there's a removable collet where you can remove the depriming pin. You would literally have to hammer that pin down to remove the brass.
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Posted: 7/14/2012 11:50:21 AM
According to instructions, all you need to do is run the expander ball through the neck (so you shouldn't get a stuck case since you don't need to resize the case at all, just don't push the case all the way into the die). I think you're doing fine without lube, maybe a carbide expander ball would give you peace of mind. Probably, the loose cases help prevent stuck cases in the die.

And, as far as the loose cases, you will be doing some fire-forming (so next time, use case lube when you reload this brass).
1Andy2
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Posted: 7/14/2012 1:25:28 PM
Lube. It's too easy to lube not to do it. Fill a spray bottle with 4:1 IPA and liquid lanolin. That'll set you up for lubing 50k+ cases. Total cost, maybe 10 bucks plus the spray bottle.
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gasdoc09
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Posted: 7/14/2012 2:00:32 PM
Originally Posted By Henny:
With my luck, I'd just spray lube them, run them through the sizing die and tumble them clean.

It's primed brass. Is it OK to tumble clean empty cases with primers in them? I'm just wondering about bits of grit getting stuck in the flash hole, maybe that doesn't matter.

Obviously wet/stainless tumbling is out.
ChrisGarrett
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Posted: 7/14/2012 2:41:21 PM
Originally Posted By gasdoc09:
Originally Posted By Henny:
With my luck, I'd just spray lube them, run them through the sizing die and tumble them clean.

It's primed brass. Is it OK to tumble clean empty cases with primers in them? I'm just wondering about bits of grit getting stuck in the flash hole, maybe that doesn't matter.

Obviously wet/stainless tumbling is out.


No, it's not. Media can get stuck in the compound end of the primer and/or primer flash hole.

Check them all in a gage, make sure the mouths are round and shoot them.

It's really not that complicated.

Chris


Henny
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Posted: 7/14/2012 2:56:45 PM
Ahhh, I missed the fact they were primed.
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Posted: 7/14/2012 10:33:56 PM
Kids wipe the Imperial off pretty good. Small hands and all. Almost like they were made for the task.
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Posted: 7/21/2012 12:08:29 PM
1. Don't tumble primed cases. The reasons for not doing so should be abundantly obvious.

2. Sizing the neck of new, primed cases without a de-priming pin in place and NO lube is just fine. Nothing tragic or disastrous will result from that operation. The neck is factory clean and presents minimum resistance to the operation. The same cannot be said for fired cases. Interior neck area of fired and uncleaned cases presents more resistance to the neck sizer and may, at the least, result in stretching of the neck. Wet tumbling with stainless pins will return the fired case to factory new cleanliness and minimum case neck resistance to resizing... no neck lube necessary.

3. For ALL new, primed cases, using some types (primarily petroleum based) of case lube on the inside of the neck will eventually contaminate either or both powder and primer, and can also influence bullet-case neck tension.


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Posted: 7/21/2012 2:04:02 PM
Well I don't think there's anything wrong with it. For one, you already did 50 cases w/o issue. It's new brass and not dirty at all. I wouldn't worry about it. I resize .45 ACP with very little or almost no lube and it works fine for me.
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Posted: 7/21/2012 3:04:12 PM

Originally Posted By CRNUMBER:
Well I don't think there's anything wrong with it. For one, you already did 50 cases w/o issue. It's new brass and not dirty at all. I wouldn't worry about it. I resize .45 ACP with very little or almost no lube and it works fine for me.

45 ACP with no lube is fine with carbide dies.

Bottle neck cases sized in steel dies....canbe/is a different story. You are compairing apples to oranges.

If cases are under sized to start with then you might get away with no lube in a sizing die. Might.

Myself, I will use lube to ensure that I don't have to get out the stuck case tools.
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Posted: 7/21/2012 6:51:30 PM

Originally Posted By dryflash3:

Myself, I will use lube to ensure that I don't have to get out the stuck case tools.

This!

If you do get a stuck case, how are you going to remove it with a live primer?

-Deke
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Posted: 7/21/2012 11:16:55 PM
Just my two cents, but I cant see you ever getting a new 300 blk case stuck if you use just a little bit of spray lube. If it was a fired case, that would be a different story.

I think the heavier duty lubes are overkill for new brass, but that might just be because I havent gotten one stuck yet.
gasdoc09
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Posted: 7/21/2012 11:51:38 PM
What I ended up doing was just running them into the die just enough to undent the case mouths. Loaded a bunch of 220 SMK subs and went shooting.

Now I'm wishing I'd bought more than 1000 of the 220 SMK pulls from Rocky Mountain Reloading ...
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Posted: 7/22/2012 12:41:13 AM
They will run differently in your case gage this time.....