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Sabre19
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Posted: 5/17/2012 3:44:01 PM
At the risk of beating this topic to death...

I've been eyeballing a Giraud trimmer for a long time, as it appears to be a near perfect trimming solution. The only thing that could make it better would be if it were configured to mount to a press.

Does anyone favor the RT1200 OVER the Giraud? If so, why?

For those of you who use the RT1200, do you still chamfer/deburr your cases after? If any of you ALSO SS tumble your cases, does doing so knock off any burrs from the trimming process?

I'm on the fence right now. I really like the Giraud but for the fact that it can't be incorporated into the on-press processing. I really like the RT1200 because it is half the price of the Giraud and it's on-press... but I'm thinking there has to be some sort of "catch" to the resize/trim die that makes it different from a normal size die (besides that there isn't - I don't think - an expander ball).

Please post your experiences and/or processes with your respective trimmers.
10wt308
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Posted: 5/17/2012 4:02:55 PM
[Last Edit: 5/17/2012 4:07:30 PM by 10wt308]
I do not use either one of those trimmers so I can't help you there.

However, I do use the WFT which does not deburr or chamfer. I tumble after trimming with the ss pins and have found it does a very good job of removing any burrs etc.

I think maybe using more pins for this purpose helps too.

Hope this helps

Tom

eta: I have thought about your two choices and if I bought one it would be the Giraud. The reason is I use my progressive for clean loading and do all my case prep with a single stage. I only expand, powder drop, seat and crimp only.
jonblack
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Posted: 5/17/2012 4:27:09 PM
[Last Edit: 5/17/2012 4:28:14 PM by jonblack]
Depends on your goals.

RT-1200 is great for bulk processing of .223 brass. Tumble the brass afterwards and if you use boat tail bullets there is really no reason to chamfer the case mouth. People complain the die oversizes the neck. I think it is designed to do that, as the die has to have some way to hold the brass to keep if from spinning while trimming.

If you ever want to from 300 Blackout from 223 cases then the RT-1200 is the way to go.

I have not used a Giraud.

That is my experience
jonblack
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Posted: 5/17/2012 4:35:51 PM
I haven't ever used a Giraud. They look like a very nice piece of equipment.

I've been using a 1200. I can't imagine anything faster and it is very precise. The one station after the trimmer has a Lyman "M" die due to the trimmer / sizer makes the case necks a little too tight for seating bullets. Even with boat tails I was getting small slivers of copper. Since the addition of the "M" die, things are great. I've never had to chamfer my cases.

The great thing about the Dillon is you don't even have to touch the cases. Dump the cases in the feeder and crank the handle, tumble them and you have cases that are ready to reload. No cramping of fingers, no eating up my night to process 500 rounds, it's just easy.
"...But there's also this: there are over 5,000 men in this city, who know that being a policeman is an endless, glamourless, thankless job that's gotta be done. I know it, too, and I'm damn glad to be one of them." Joe Friday
amk
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Posted: 5/17/2012 5:01:12 PM
I have used both. I prefer the Dillon, I have 2-one for 223 and one for 308 for the same price as one Giraud. the Giraud does a nice job and is a high quality unit, but the Dillon is much faster since it goes in my station #3 and the case is then chased with a neck sizer after trimming. I haven't witnessed the need to chamfer and debur my cases, but I have heard some need to, I have pulled bullets after seating and have not experieced shaved bullets yet, maybe once the blade gets more dull? I will need too, but until then they have been GTG.
1911smith
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Posted: 5/17/2012 6:02:57 PM
RT1200 vs Giraurd debate and there really isn't for me. I own/use RT1200 on Dillon 650. Is better likened to quantity vs quality.

Nothing will move through a pile of .223 like my RT1200. Followed with Lyman M die to smooth inner cut.

Giraurd cuts and chamfurs.

Like I said this really isn't a -vs- kinda topic. What works for one guy here wouldn't be an option for serious rifle hand loaders. If loading like I do for blaster .223, RT1200 is perfect.

If loading more than the 700, 308 Win long range precision loads I load every year I would give Giraurd the nod. No more than I load in precision my cam-lock trimmer works well.
" God Bless Our Snipers ".
Hoser
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Posted: 5/17/2012 6:37:44 PM
I have both.

Different machines for different jobs.

For small batches of match grade ammo, the Giraud wins hands down.

For big batches of brass where chamfering is not mandatory, the Dillon wins.
coldair
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Posted: 5/17/2012 6:40:08 PM
just finished prepping 3000 pieces of 6.8 brass with my Giraurd and I love that machine
I wish I was the man my dog thinks I am
Electronrider
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Posted: 5/17/2012 7:07:10 PM
Originally Posted By 1911smith:
RT1200 vs Giraurd debate and there really isn't for me. I own/use RT1200 on Dillon 650. Is better likened to quantity vs quality.

Nothing will move through a pile of .223 like my RT1200. Followed with Lyman M die to smooth inner cut.

Giraurd cuts and chamfurs.

Like I said this really isn't a -vs- kinda topic. What works for one guy here wouldn't be an option for serious rifle hand loaders. If loading like I do for blaster .223, RT1200 is perfect.

If loading more than the 700, 308 Win long range precision loads I load every year I would give Giraurd the nod. No more than I load in precision my cam-lock trimmer works well.


I am considering the M die, but that die and all the others say they expand the mouth a tiny bit. Does this mean I have to crimp, or is it negligible?
1911smith
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Posted: 5/17/2012 7:51:30 PM
M die neck expansion. Another holy grail debate. I get trapped into these a lot. Usually someone's feelings get hurt because they don't like my more than 20% answer.

Do you ever find yourself reading MidwayUSA reviews ?? It's an exercise in the overall human aptitude to figure things out. Reviews are good for weeding out good from bad products I'm talking specifically about known products having years of high quality performance reputations. There's always a percentage that just don't get it.

M die is one of those products. If you understand die tuning the M die is for you. If you've never taken the time to understand basic press and die tuning find something else.

Mine is set perfectly to gently expand the very top of neck. Maybe 10% of total neck is expanded for good rounding of inner edge and perfects bullet seating. Seating die set correctly corrects distortion created from M die.
" God Bless Our Snipers ".
Henny
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Posted: 5/17/2012 7:58:03 PM

Originally Posted By 1911smith:

Mine is set perfectly to gently expand the very top of neck. Maybe 10% of total neck is expanded for good rounding of inner edge and perfects bullet seating. Seating die set correctly corrects distortion created from M die.

This. Exactly.
"...But there's also this: there are over 5,000 men in this city, who know that being a policeman is an endless, glamourless, thankless job that's gotta be done. I know it, too, and I'm damn glad to be one of them." Joe Friday
10wt308
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Posted: 5/17/2012 8:45:06 PM
Originally Posted By Henny:

Originally Posted By 1911smith:

Mine is set perfectly to gently expand the very top of neck. Maybe 10% of total neck is expanded for good rounding of inner edge and perfects bullet seating. Seating die set correctly corrects distortion created from M die.

This. Exactly.


what they said
panther308
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Posted: 5/17/2012 9:26:37 PM
Have never used a Dillon and went with the Giraud and I will say it trims very accurately, it may not be as quanity driven as the Dillon but for me it works.
Girlieman
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Posted: 5/18/2012 7:12:16 AM
Friend of mine has the Dillon... It's loud.

I have the Giraud.... It's much quieter. I can trim without waking the whole house.
crazybull
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Posted: 5/18/2012 8:18:51 AM
Originally Posted By Girlieman:
Friend of mine has the Dillon... It's loud.

I have the Giraud.... It's much quieter. I can trim without waking the whole house.


I use the Dillon and love it but I do agree with a shop vac and the trimmer running hearing protection is a must. The trimmer is excellent and goes great with the Lyman M die, with this set up I don't have problems with BT or FB bullets.

Flash66
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Posted: 5/18/2012 10:10:13 AM
I have both. I got the Giraud because I was getting tired of chamfering and deburring.

I haven't used the Dillon since getting the Giraud.

If you don't bother to chamfer/debur then I guess the Dillon is a little faster but the Giraud is cleaner, quieter, and a much better built machine.
Sabre19
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Posted: 5/18/2012 11:07:02 AM
[Last Edit: 5/18/2012 11:19:15 AM by Sabre19]
Alright guys, thank you all for your input!

I'm going to be doing both volume (not thousands at a time, but several hundred) .223 and smaller batches of match .308

Seems like the ARFCOM standard answer would apply here: Get both!

Buuut....

After what some of you have said about build quality, sound level and such, looks like I'm going to be getting a Giraud as soon as funds allow.

Thanks guys!

ETA: Y'all are always making me wreck my budget!
BlackLabelM4
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Posted: 5/18/2012 4:12:19 PM
What bout the Gracey Trimmer? Anyone have any experience with that?

Gracey Trimmer
dusten
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Posted: 5/18/2012 6:19:52 PM
[Last Edit: 5/18/2012 6:22:54 PM by dusten]
I also have both and my Giraud gets very little use now, only my 308.

I do all of my 223 processing with the Dillon, it saves a ton of time and there have never been any issues loading boat tail bullets. I cannot say that I have tried flat base bullets and can see how you might have problems.. There is very rarely any sort of a burr on the cases trimmed with a Dillon and I just tumble the old fashioned way in walnut.

Here is a comparison picture showing what the cases look like after trimming. The chamfer on the Giraud trimmed case is concentric, it is just the reflection that makes it look odd.

lamale
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Posted: 5/18/2012 9:00:38 PM
I have Gracey and love it. BUT order it without the motor and then put a 3000RPM Motor on it along with the carbide cutting blade from Bjones Sights. Very easy to use, fast, and accurate (usually +/- 0.001")
You can't fix stupid, but sometimes it sure would be nice to be allowed to try and slap it out of certain individuals.
MastaMarksman
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Posted: 5/18/2012 11:32:44 PM
[Last Edit: 5/18/2012 11:38:50 PM by MastaMarksman]
I purchased the Giraud, processed about 1500 cases on it, then sold it and purchased an RT1200.

The RT1200 is ALOT faster when processing 1000's of cases (Assuming you are installing it on a progressive press with a case feeder). the Giraud may be SLIGHTLY more accurate, IF all your cases have been resized 100% accurate, since the cases headspace off the shoulder, if your resizing process isn't 100% accurate, guess what? You trimming wont be..

The Giraud made my hand's hurt after a few hundred cases, a problem that is non exsistant with the RT1200.

The RT1200 is NOISY, ESPECIALLY with the vaccum. If you could somehow locate a vaccume in another room/area and run a long hose it would be about 1,000 times better.

Don't get me wrong, the Giraud is a work of art, but I think it's better suited for the target/match shooting folks than those of us that reload 1000's of rounds in bulk.

The Dillon is not with out it's faults, but I do feel it is a better machine for mass processing.

As for chamfer/deburr, I do not, after trim, the cases go into a corn cop untreated tumbler for about 1 hour (Probably doesn't need to be that long), they come out with no burr's. I have a Lee universal case expanding die on my loading toolhead that expands the case neck every soo slightly just so my Mr Bullet Feeder can drop a bullet on the case neck and not have the bullet fall off. If you are loading boat tailed bullets by hand, there would be no need for the case neck expander.

-Masta